The range capability of warrior.

[JinONplay.8905]

Now i do get that range for warriors isn't exactly "warrior" thing to do, as almost every mmo warrior isn't meant for range. 

 

However, in guild wars 2 which every professions has range capabilities, warrior seems to have the worst range capability out of all the professions.

 

The best range weapon warrior seems to be simply the bow, which is barely working and is being hindered by it's incredibly slow projectile speed and overlacking utilities aswell as damage. 

 

Rifle, is not exactly "impossible" to use,  but in most situations it is simply not enough. 

 

Now revenant i think has the second worst range capability and that is the hammer,  but can be compensated with the renegade profession and it's amazing short bursts utility.

 

Warrior doesn't really have much viable build for range capabilities, yes i have seen some youtubers that makes the rifle and bow "works" sometimes but it takes alot more effort to work effectively than other professions.

 

Almost in both pve and pvp,  every professions has range as their sub weapon.  Most warriors i know of including myself rarely use the range weapon that is available to them. 

 

I do not want to sound rude,  but developers thinking giving it a small percentage of damage and 1 more added ammo will simply not work,  i think it is simply best to overhaul the range weapons for warrior entirely. 

 

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

The crazy part is, nobody even wants Rifle to be meta.

All we want is that its fun to use.

 

Cant be THAT hard to do right? RIGHT!?

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by DanAlcedo.3281

[crewthief.8649]

Yeah, our ranged weapons leave a lot to be desired. Regarding the longbow, it has absolutely horrible tracking and projectile speed is incredibly slow. Not to mention the weapon skills themselves could use some reworking/upgrading. Skill 4 is… not great (it is objectively awful). Skill 5 could be decent, but has absolutely horrendous tracking (perhaps make it unblockable?). Skill 2 could use another 2-3 stacks of burning (imo). Skill 3 is good, mainly because it’s AoE (although I think it could maybe use weakness or something). And skill 1 is just bland (why not put some bleed on this?).

 Hopefully, with this new push to buff Warrior, some of our weapons can get some love.

Edited October 9, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I mean they thought that the 1 Longbow zerker per blob shooting one another with Scorching Earth was enough of a reason for nerfing. 

Go figure. 

[thaniretouni.4762]

in every mmo warrior assuming full gear does a ton of dmg in melee as a compensation for its little to none ranged capabilities. in every mmo warrior can be a serious tank with nice cc abilities that do some dmg, this is not possible here. i tried such a style these days after changes and yes can be fun for 3v3 but as a duel strategy for 1v1 or zergs is very bad. in 1v1 every class that wants to duel has lots of dmg mobility and stun breaks or evades so with the cast times of warrior skills and its very little mobility especially for this kind of build, it is impossible. in all mmos warriors have many charges, here we got bull's charge dealing zero dmg and gs 5 that is super slow and has long aftercast. yay, i charged for 900 range that takes some time while half classes have 1200 range teleports or multiple stun breaks.... in all mmos warrior has decent sword sword use, here we got mostly condi on sword and without much support in other utilities to make a condi build rly work.

 

all that i dont mind too much. just give warrior back some dmg to their cc and increase significantly the dmg of our burst skills. to activate the latter we need adrenaline which we cannot store and they are easy to evade, so we need to make sure that when they land they have serious impact. plz anet make warrior decent again. coz now in competitive hits like a fluff

Edited October 9, 2022 by thaniretouni.4762

[crewthief.8649]

1 hour ago, thaniretouni.4762 said:

in every mmo warrior assuming full gear does a ton of dmg in melee as a compensation for its little to none ranged capabilities. in every mmo warrior can be a serious tank with nice cc abikities that do some dmg, this is not possible here. i tried such a style these days after changes and yes can be fun for 3v3 but as a duel strategy for 1v1 or zergs is very bad. in 1v1 every class that wants to duel has lots of dmg mobility and stun breaks or evades so with the cast times of warrior skills and its very little mobility especially for this kind of build, it is impossible. in all mmos warriors have many charges, here we got bull's charge dealing zero dmg and gs 5 that is super slow and has long aftercast. yay, i charged for 900 range that takes some time and half classes have 1200 range teleports or multiple stun breaks.... in all mmos warrior has decent sword sword use, here we hot condi on sword and without much support in other utilities to make a condi build rly work.

 

all that i dont mind too much. just give warrior back some dmg to their cc and i crease significantly the dmg of our burst skills. to activate the latter we need adrenaline which we cannot store and they are easy to evade, so we need to make sure that when they land they have serious impact. plz anet make warrior decent again. coz now in competitive hits like a fluff

This thread is about ranged weapons, specifically.

In other MMOs, ranged-weapon damage is nerfed (comparable to melee) in order to compensate for the increased safety of casting from range, not here. So, I see no need for Warrior to have awful ranged weapons simply because we’re a heavy-armor class.

Edited October 9, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Mortime.1359]

Engineers have the shotgun, thieves have the sniper rifle. Time to update warrior rifle into an assault rifle so I can finally roleplay as rambo.

[Fueki.4753]

I think it is a case of Arenanet simply wanting Warrior to not have viable ranged damage.

Rifle is bad, Longbow is bad and Junksworn's pistol is yet another melee weapon.

I think it's pretty clear they want Warrior to be close at all times.

[crewthief.8649]

12 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I think it is a case of Arenanet simply wanting Warrior to not have viable ranged damage.

Rifle is bad, Longbow is bad and Junksworn's pistol is yet another melee weapon.

I think it's pretty clear they want Warrior to be close at all times.

Warrior is clearly primarily melee, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have viable options among the two ranged weapons that we do have.

Edited October 9, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

2 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Regarding the longbow, it has absolutely horrible tracking and projectile speed is incredibly slow.

By God, how many times have I missed with longbow and rifle? I didn't even know there was a miss feature until I used these weapons more thoroughly. If your target suddenly changes directions, your attack misses completely.

And I main rifle warrior. I've taken the lives of many fellow warriors while using a complete glass rifle build with no survivability. How? Is rifle that good? No. Warrior is just too susceptible to range and if you main warrior, it's easy mode to dodge all the slow, obvious attacks you've come to know like the back of your hand.

[crewthief.8649]

Just now, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

By God, how many times have I missed with longbow and rifle? I didn't even know there was a miss feature until I used these weapons more thoroughly. If your target suddenly changes directions, your attack misses completely.

And I main rifle warrior. I've taken the lives of many fellow warriors while using a complete glass rifle build with no survivability. How? Is rifle that good? No. Warrior is just too susceptible to range and if you main warrior, it's easy mode to dodge all the slow, obvious attacks you've come to know like the back of your hand.

Yeah, man. I was using LB in WvW yesterday and the number of times I had a target within range and just straight up missed was crazy to me. Especially with LB 5. You’d think that with that long a CD and casting-time that at the very least it would track semi-well. The burst skill and LB 3 are about the only redeeming characteristics, tbh.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, crewthief.8649 said:

This thread is about ranged weapons, specifically.

In other MMOs, ranged-weapon damage is nerfed (comparable to melee) in order to compensate for the increased safety of casting from range, not here. So, I see no need for Warrior to have awful ranged weapons simply because we’re a heavy-armor class.

Eh. That isn't entirely untrue here, but on some professions the benefit that the melee weapon receives in exchange for being melee is that the weapon receives superior defensive qualities instead of greater damage. That's the situation with melee weapons on core ranger and core mesmer. 

[crewthief.8649]

2 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Eh. That isn't entirely untrue here, but on some professions the benefit that the melee weapon receives in exchange for being melee is that the weapon receives superior defensive qualities instead of greater damage. That's the situation with melee weapons on core ranger and core mesmer. 

I was speaking specifically from the perspective of damage. GW2 broke away from an MMO industry standard with respect to ranged damage vs. melee damage in many respects. That has only increased with elite specs.

I think Warrior suffers from a lot of holdover balancing (i.e., the CD and cast-time of LB 5) that has long since been rendered obsolete with all of the power-creep (among other classes). It’s like, the game moved forward while the Warrior has remained stagnant.

[draxynnic.3719]

7 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

I was speaking specifically from the perspective of damage. GW2 broke away from an MMO industry standard with respect to ranged damage vs. melee damage in many respects. That has only increased with elite specs.

I think Warrior suffers from a lot of holdover balancing (i.e., the CD and cast-time of LB 5) that has long since been rendered obsolete with all of the power-creep (among other classes). It’s like, the game moved forward while the Warrior has remained stagnant.

Oh, I've seen that argument made before, I knew what you meant. The thing is that in many cases, the DPS-oriented melee weapon of a profession does outdamage the ranged weapons on that profession. The exceptions are on professions like mesmer and ranger where, on core at least, the melee weapons have strong defensive qualities instead. In those cases, you're giving up the range in order to have more damage mitigation rather than damage output. For mirage at least, though, when an elite spec gets a DPS-oriented melee weapon, it outdamages the ranged weapons on that specialisation. (I'm not familiar enough with soulbeast builds to know if that holds there.)

That's not the case for warrior - warrior absolutely does have weaponsets that are fully DPS-oriented. I would not, therefore, expect to see one of the warrior ranged weapons out-damaging greatsword or axe/axe. Somewhere in the general ballpark of axe/shield is probably more likely.

I would agree that warrior certainly feels substantially left behind, but I think it's an oversimplification to claim that ArenaNet has given up on the paradigm that there's a tradeoff for the greater safety and utility of fighting at range.

[crewthief.8649]

28 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Oh, I've seen that argument made before, I knew what you meant. The thing is that in many cases, the DPS-oriented melee weapon of a profession does outdamage the ranged weapons on that profession. The exceptions are on professions like mesmer and ranger where, on core at least, the melee weapons have strong defensive qualities instead. In those cases, you're giving up the range in order to have more damage mitigation rather than damage output. For mirage at least, though, when an elite spec gets a DPS-oriented melee weapon, it outdamages the ranged weapons on that specialisation. (I'm not familiar enough with soulbeast builds to know if that holds there.)

That's not the case for warrior - warrior absolutely does have weaponsets that are fully DPS-oriented. I would not, therefore, expect to see one of the warrior ranged weapons out-damaging greatsword or axe/axe. Somewhere in the general ballpark of axe/shield is probably more likely.

I would agree that warrior certainly feels substantially left behind, but I think it's an oversimplification to claim that ArenaNet has given up on the paradigm that there's a tradeoff for the greater safety and utility of fighting at range.

I don’t think Anet has given up that paradigm; it never really existed here. The post you’d originally quoted was in response to another post. That post claimed that Warrior should not have a good ranged option because it is primarily melee (using traditional MMOs as the rationale), which I do not believe represents GW2’s design philosophy.

I agree that our ranged weapons should not out-damage their melee counterparts, but I also think that they could certainly be improved. Longbow is the same weapon that it was 7-8 years ago… and what’s worse (in addition to being outdated), it is extremely unreliable in its function.

Edited October 9, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Warrior is clearly primarily melee, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have viable options among the two ranged weapons that we do have.

I'm not saying that Warrior can't hypothetically have a viable ranged option.

I'm saying that it appears as if Arenanet doesn't want Warrior to have one, which may be why they arbitrarily keep its ranged options bad and made Pistol a melee weapon.

[crewthief.8649]

1 minute ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I'm not saying that Warrior can't hypothetically have a viable ranged option.

I'm saying that it appears as if Arenanet doesn't want Warrior to have one, which may be why they arbitrarily keep its ranged options bad and made Pistol a melee weapon.

Oh yeah, don’t disagree with that premise. Pretty discouraging if that’s the case. Do you think Warrior would be too oppressive if we had good options from range?

Edited October 9, 2022 by crewthief.8649

[Fueki.4753]

1 minute ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Oh yeah, don’t disagree with that premise. Pretty discouraging if that’s the case. Do you think Warrior would be too oppressive if we had good options from range?

Due to the excessively high amount of projectile hate that's available in the game now, I doubt a ranged Warrior would be anywhere close to being dangerous, even if all of that ranged weapon's abilities had the damage values of Axe #5.

[Vancho.8750]

10 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

The crazy part is, nobody even wants Rifle to be meta.

All we want is that its fun to use.

 

Cant be THAT hard to do right? RIGHT!?

 

 

Personally, I kinda want a AXE/AXE Rifle Berserker for META PVE build just to have option for Range phases. Not saying it should be amazing it just should be like the Axe/Axe Mace/Mace thing, situational  so the dps doesn't tank when there is too much kitten on the ground to melee. Little bit more adrenaline generation on hits little bit more damage here and there little bit of cooldown shave here and there to get a feel good rotation and we peachy. Also dodge then shoot on Brutal shot.  

[thaniretouni.4762]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Due to the excessively high amount of projectile hate that's available in the game now, I doubt a ranged Warrior would be anywhere close to being dangerous, even if all of that ranged weapon's abilities had the damage values of Axe #5.

change sword offhand to a range attack with 2 secs cooldown that deals a non projectile 5k crit hit to one target. also, make the sword 5 an aoe ranged  attack that hit one target and then deals dmg to the nearest 5 target and deals about 5-6 k crits on a 10 secs cd. again non projectile. boom we got a mixed melee and ranged set with some mobility if combined with sword main hand. make it like gladiator from lineage 2 🙂

[Infusion.7149]

I think a large part of the community wanted bladesworn to either be support focused or using a pistol mainhand. Instead we got a lackluster pistol offhand and a spec that sits in places for seconds just to charge an anime-inspired attack.

Rifle doesn't have much defensive capabilities so I wouldn't mind seeing it a decent option for ranged damage in PVE. It doesn't need to do spectacular damage but at least the core burst Kill Shot should do more due to the long activation time.

For now however if you want ranged on warrior you probably want to play condi berserker with a longbow on second weaponset.

[Borked.6824]

Where does gap-closing fit in this conversation?  These days I gravitate more toward ranged classes.  I'm sure most people do.  But Spellbreaker dagger seems to create an acceptable alternative.  Playing the Peak Performance build allows and encourages a lot of "in-out" gameplay.  I like it a lot actually.  Spam spam, move out for mitigation, Bull Charge, spam spam, out, Breaching Strike, spam spam, out, Aura Slicer.  You're never more than a 1/2 second away from dpsing regardless of where you are.

I agree that Warrior range is hot garbage, but I'm curious if scenarios like this speak the same language of a ranged class for a "weaponmaster" class like Warrior.