ANet responsibility toward Asura and Charrs

[ancientoak.4258]

1 hour ago, Scalacious.4139 said:

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics

Guildwars efficiency is a 3th party tool. Not factual stats for most of the players (who mostly dont use 3th party add ons). Add to that most played time, only says that people who play the most amount of hours mostly main humans. Says nothing about real unique players compared to race. All subjective. Add to that the proposed changes. Your personal wishes/opinion. Nothing else. Please state that in your post instead of presenting it like you present the players as one entity.

Edited October 19, 2022 by ancientoak.4258

[Harak.8397]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I assume you're also excluding people who already play asura and charr, since they're clearly not put off by these specific features.

I play almost exclusively Charr and AM I put off by these specific features. There's not a single haircut for Charr male released after vanilla that I would consider using. The females fare slightly better in that regard.

The OP has a point, regardless of style, Anet needs to approach Charr hair cuts as manes and at the risk of going on a tangent that goes for helmets too. By mane I mean consider the top of the head, the area between the horns ( forehead), the ridge of the neck and the sides. Imagine how popular the Pyre Circlet would be with Charr if it actually went down the length of the neck rather than stick to a spot between the horns.

They have created interesting styles in the past but they end up being just too large. We all know the super saiyan hair cut but there are others who would have been fine had they not emptied tree bottles of volumizer into their hair when styling it.

[Freya.9075]

Eh, I see fellow rats and cats everywhere. I wouldn’t want asura to change. Sure human female is most played, but that goes for any game. It’s just what many players tend to go for. However I see no issue with charrs and asura. The race I see the least is norn. 

[Sarm.5923]

Are you proposing making charr feet no longer digitigrade? I know I wouldn't like that. It's a minor thing, but it's still part of the whole package that sells them as a beast race.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Who are these people the OP is insisting won't making Charr and Asura characters over the former's hair and the latter's feet? Besides the OP, of course.

[Blude.6812]

4 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That's a really broad assumption.

At least it isn't  a completely false assumption like the OPs reason.

[Ashgar.3024]

Monster and midget races are always the least played in every MMO.

 

The casual MMO enjoyer just wants to cosplay as Legolas,Aragorn or an anime Waifu cause that's what they know and that's fine.

 

I'm a massive Charr fan (most my characters are Charrs with a few Sylvaris/Norns) so I don't disagree more (and less silly) customization would be nice but i'm not unhappy with what we got.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Kanek.5472]

10 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

There are 2 major issues that cause these races to be least played than they could that are all ANet fault.

No, it's literally just preference.

 

You'll find that people's tastes can be mundane (imo) and rather stick to what they're familiar with. Either their face in the mirror or just some stupid legolas lookin' mfer.

 

It doesn't help that there's always the social stigma of just being called a furry.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Kanek.5472

[Dib.4612]

I think the issue with the other races is not these things.
It is simply the fact that MOST armor and weaponry is designed around humans and will look silly on the other races.
Another may be that people simply don't like the look or the animations on certain races. For example the movement speed is based on a human, when you go much bigger like a big Charr or Norn, you start to feel like you're running in slow motion. While when you're an Asura your character suddenly flies all over the place. 

I have a very limited amount of playtime on my Thief, Engineer and Elementalist. I realized lately that it wasn't because I dislike those classes, but it's because they were Asura and Charr.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Dib.4612
added the movement speed part

[Padrion.7382]

Well, ANET wanted to be different for the sake of being different and the result is whenever I design a sylvari, charr or asura character in the editor I end up thinking, this one would look much cooler as a human or norn. Which is a real pitty especially when they had dwarfs in the lore. DWARFS!

Edited October 20, 2022 by Padrion.7382

[Eponet.4829]

16 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

Sure human female is most played, but that goes for any game.

It actually doesn't.
 

In FF14 endgame characters (to filter out the low level bots) the human female equivalent (Hyur) is actually middle of the road at 8th/15,  behind male Hyur, female Au Ra, female Lalafel, and both sexes of Miqo'te and Viera.

I couldn't find a race/sex breakdown on WoW since their things tend to be more race/class focused, but humans in general are only second to blood elves there. So unless there's some reason why blood elves have a noticeably higher proportion of male characters, the human female is unlikely to be the most common there either.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Eponet.4829

[Fueki.4753]

29 minutes ago, Eponet.4829 said:

It actually doesn't.
 

In FF14 endgame characters (to filter out the low level bots) the human female equivalent (Hyur) is actually middle of the road at 8th/15,  behind male Hyur, female Au Ra, female Lalafel, and both sexes of Miqo'te and Viera.

I don't think that FF14 is a good example here, as most races are just human + parts bolted on, rather than visually being fundamentally different races.

Catgirls and boys are just humans with cat ears, eyes and tails.

Au Ra are just humans with horn-ear things and tails.

Viera are just humans with bunny ears.

Elezen (like Elves in most games) are just humans with long ears.

Roegadyn are Humans with flat noses.

The only remarkably different races are the potatoes and Hrothgar, and the potatoes can also interpreted as small humans (which a good amount of fanart depicts them as).

And with the Hrothgar, the only true beast race in FF14, we can even see similar neglect by the developers as we can see with Charr. In a way, Hrothgar are even worse off than Charr, since Hrothgar don't even have females yet and currently have to interbreed with the human races or risk extinction.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Freya.9075]

19 minutes ago, Eponet.4829 said:

It actually doesn't.
 

In FF14 endgame characters (to filter out the low level bots) the human female equivalent (Hyur) is actually middle of the road at 8th/15,  behind male Hyur, female Au Ra, female Lalafel, and both sexes of Miqo'te and Viera.

I couldn't find a race/sex breakdown on WoW since their things tend to be more race/class focused, but humans in general are only second to blood elves there. So unless there's some reason why blood elves have a noticeably higher proportion of male characters, the human female is unlikely to be the most common there either.

That may be true. I do not play ff14, but isn't Au Ra humanlike? same with Miqo'te and Viera. Sure they got ears and tails but it's not that different from a human.

[Scalacious.4139]

1 hour ago, Eponet.4829 said:

I couldn't find a race/sex breakdown on WoW since their things tend to be more race/class focused, but humans in general are only second to blood elves there. So unless there's some reason why blood elves have a noticeably higher proportion of male characters, the human female is unlikely to be the most common there either.

WoW has the problem in that regard of the Horde vs Alliance split and a lot of people find it cooler to be horde and horde also has better racial skills and talents. Blood elves have such a high population, because they are basically the most human looking race (same skincolour and bodys except for the ears and eyebrows) on the horde side. If racial skills had less of an impact and if the playerbase were not split between the two factions, humans would most likely be the most played race.

[Gehenna.3625]

20 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

How do you came to think that 3-toed mole feet with claws were "more human" ?

I only asked for a better model than 3 glued cones.

My bad. I misread something, so that's on me.

[Ultramex.1506]

Uhh biggest problem i see people talks about regarding Charr are their armor clipping and lack of good fashion

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triumphant_armor_(medium)

Someone got paid for putting a cup on a Charr head

[Freya.9075]

15 minutes ago, Ultramex.1506 said:

Someone got paid for putting a cup on a Charr head

Aww it’s sad to see when a precious kitty is getting mugged 😞 

[Kanek.5472]

3 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

That may be true. I do not play ff14, but isn't Au Ra humanlike? same with Miqo'te and Viera. Sure they got ears and tails but it's not that different from a human.

Pretty much.

 

Arguably every brand of race you see on 14 is some taste of human with an animal bit glued onto it. The only difference being Hrothgar but even then they're still a male-only race with a female counterpart on the way in some near future. What's unknown so far is whether or not this is just another brand of human with an animal bit or full-on bestial.

 

Even then you can still say that all of the lady races on XIV are just a different variation of a human female since the differences are only skin deep and, lore-wise, culturally different.

[Wolfb.7025]

Responsibility? People don't get that we're really lucky to get Charr as a playable race. I'm more worried about anet not considering Charr for a playable GW3 race in the future since they bring nothing but nuiseances when armorskins are being released.

As for customization options, even with only the core options, charr has more customizations than any other mmorpg i've seen..

Edited October 20, 2022 by Wolfb.7025

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 10/19/2022 at 5:00 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

We have no way of knowing how close these numbers resemble real statistics, unless Arenanet releases official statistics.

Also, that site does not reflect a vertical slice of the player base, so it can't be extrapolated across the entire fanbase in a reasonable manner.

I'd even guess that the registered accounts are very far from the majority of the playerbase, as most players in this game don't even remotely care about efficiency.

Well statistics are normally pretty solid with a n of 1000. That site has like 300 time that if I remember right. That should be more then enough to be accurate in most cases. So the only remaining question is what could wrong with the sampling and has Efficiency a reason to modify Data for self gain. I don't think they have a vested interest in spreading fake news to win a race war, so we are fine on that front. All that remains is sampling. As you have to opt in, People on that side are generally more invested. Which could skew some statistics, Like number of legendries or average achievement points. Bias is something people should have in mind with any sampling, because any sampling has bias in one form or another. But with the n as high as it is, you should make a solid argument why the bias in this sample is significant enough to affects race choice by a big enough margin. Otherwise it just sounds like you don't like what the data tells.

A lot of stuff we rely in the real Word has some kind of bias. We don't discard that Data just because we can't be 100% sure it's bias free. 

[Taclism.2406]

My only asura is my bank slave, because I think its an ironic, fitting destiny for a race that believes in eugenics

[Wolfb.7025]

50 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Well statistics are normally pretty solid with a n of 1000. That site has like 300 time that if I remember right. That should be more then enough to be accurate in most cases. So the only remaining question is what could wrong with the sampling and has Efficiency a reason to modify Data for self gain. I don't think they have a vested interest in spreading fake news to win a race war, so we are fine on that front. All that remains is sampling. As you have to opt in, People on that side are generally more invested. Which could skew some statistics, Like number of legendries or average achievement points. Bias is something people should have in mind with any sampling, because any sampling has bias in one form or another. But with the n as high as it is, you should make a solid argument why the bias in this sample is significant enough to affects race choice by a big enough margin. Otherwise it just sounds like you don't like what the data tells.

A lot of stuff we rely in the real Word has some kind of bias. We don't discard that Data just because we can't be 100% sure it's bias free. 

You do get it, but people who argue won't because they don't want to lose an internet argument lol

Whoever invalidates GW2Efficiency as being innacurate because it's not a 100% sample is like when people used to say Wikipedia isn't a valid source since anyone could edit it lol.

[Silvia.9130]

I've been waiting for this post. 

It's not only what you listed. It's about time ANet starts to design armours specifically for them or at least ADAPT the armours to their body. Just stretching and shrinking something made on a human body would work if these races' bodies where actually just smaller or bigger versions of a human body. 

There is a reason if every other game ever made designs different versions of gears for races with a significantly different body type. 

 

Not to mention the atrociously lower amount of customisations asura and charr have compared to other races. 🙄

It's been 10 years and I still have to see boots breaking through my character's feet. And naturally their "invisible shoes", that could keep us a little less bitter about that horrid issue, are like the most expensive skin in game. 

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

 

A lot of stuff we rely in the real Word has some kind of bias. We don't discard that Data just because we can't be 100% sure it's bias free. 

No, but using data from that site to make broad statements about the entire user base is fallacy.

25 minutes ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

You do get it, but people who argue won't because they don't want to lose an internet argument lol

Whoever invalidates GW2Efficiency as being innacurate because it's not a 100% sample is like when people used to say Wikipedia isn't a valid source since anyone could edit it lol.

Sampling of a player base on a website and Wikipedia are entirely different things.

[SlayerXX.7138]

29 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

No, but using data from that site to make broad statements about the entire user base is fallacy.

English is not my first language so I had to google what fallacy actually means, cause I normally see it only with something attached. In the context you used it it means I came to a wrong conclusion. But you didn't explain were my reasoning wasn't sound. So you used big words to say I'm wrong, without actually having any Reasoning on your own. Smart move! Can't fall into a Fallacy if you not reason to begin with. I don't think there is a Idiot Fallacy or Dunning Kruger Fallacy. Seems like you won this argument. kitten you Kharmin and you mastery over internet arguments.