Fix Mech before nerfing always !!

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

Hate to be like this but I am not liking this balance team. Mech don't have underwater bot. Also, they don't get toolbar and NO WEAPON SWAP either.  Now, you gotta hug the green guy when bot AI is really bad.

I thought their game philosophy was making game fun to play. This is exact opposite of what they said.

[Mell.4873]

On 11/21/2022 at 2:55 PM, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

Hate to be like this but I am not liking this balance team. Mech don't have underwater bot. Also, they don't get toolbar and NO WEAPON SWAP either.  Now, you gotta hug the green guy when bot AI is really bad.

I thought their game philosophy was making game fun to play. This is exact opposite of what they said.

A lot of your damage traits require you to be close to the enemy so unless you permanently camp Jade Cannon trait it should be fairly easy to manage.

If you do plan on keeping the mech ranged you could always Signet Shift to re-position him.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Alcatraznc.3869]

There is still that one guy who keeps dying to an AFK Mechanist player in SPvP so you can expect more nerf.

 

As long as Mechanist can do a single thing, people will keep asking for nerf.

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

A lot of your damage trait require you to be close to Enemy so unless you permanently camp Jade Cannon trait it should be fairly easy to manage.

If you do plan on keeping the mech ranged you could always Signet Shift to re-position him.

Ah yes, using one of the few stunbreaks and condi cleanses in your build to prevent your own mechanic to fight against you. Genius move.

[PolarBear.3961]

IF they really are implementing this stupid change then they need to make pet leash shorter! The pet literally runs off to narnia ALL THE TIME.... 🙄

[Tails.9372]

11 minutes ago, Lucy.9743 said:

There's a reason people want the class nerfed.

Yes and most of it currently boils down to "the mech is ugly to look at" which for various people means that this is somehow an issue for the balance team to solve instead of the team responsible for visual design.

[Lucy.9743]

But hey, we have a cat chair and that's what the community cares about most so all is well. 

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

9 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Yes and most of it currently boils down to "the mech is ugly to look at" which for various people means that this is somehow an issue for the balance team to solve instead of the team responsible for visual design.

 

Nope, the main reason is what you can already see on GW2 Wingman.

 

Except for HFB, which is an issue on its own, Mech is by far the most popular build. It offers extreme versatility, combined with superior dps, support, and very high sustain while having almost no tradeoff at all.

Even after that patch, rifle will still continue to exist and be extremely powerful.

 

Ppl complain about changing their playstyle while that is exactly what every demanding build is actually doing anyways.

[Sobx.1758]

On 11/21/2022 at 2:55 AM, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

Now, you gotta hug the green guy when bot AI is really bad.

Nope, the task here isn't for the player to "hug the bot", the task is to care about your skills/mechanics and control the bot to hug you. If you can't do that with simple "follow" key press once in a while or by using a shadowstep which basically resets your mech's position to be on top of you then I'm not sure what kind of change you're looking for to help you.

 

10 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

most of it currently boils down to "the mech is ugly to look at"

Nope, that's not it.

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nope, the task here isn't for the player to "hug the bot", the task is to care about your skills/mechanics and control the bot to hug you. If you can't do that with simple "follow" key press once in a while or by using a shadowstep which basically resets your mech's position to be on top of you then I'm not sure what kind of change you're looking for to help you.

So all I need to do is to keep pressing the follow key, great.

In environments where you are required to be constantly on the move (like PvP/WvW), it just means that I have to press the key every 2 seconds and therefore interrupt my mech from attacking!

If you are on the move, you need your mech to follow. And while it is trying to catch up with you, it won't attack. You don't see the problem in that?

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

So all I need to do is to keep pressing the follow key, great.

Yes, all you have to do is press keys in a coherent manner in order to direct your character and its abilities (counting mech as one) in the way you want/need to get specific outcome. I agree that this is great.

4 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

In environments where you are required to be constantly on the move (like PvP/WvW), it just means that I have to press the key every 2 seconds and therefore interrupt my mech from attacking!

So you know how long it will take for the mech to lose the passive bonus? Please share that information. Otherwise, I'm not sure where those "2 seconds" came from, so also explain it to me.

4 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

If you are on the move, you need your mech to follow. And while it is trying to catch up with you, it won't attack. You don't see the problem in that?

Yes, if the game has mechanics requiring movement, you have to press keys to move. Similarly if you'll need to press follow button once in a while, this is not an issue and just adds to the active gameplay. No, I don't see the problem with looking at skill cd/cast and having to press keys once in a while. I'm not sure why you do.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Jijimuge.4675]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So you know how long it will take for the mech to lose the passive bonus? Please share that information. Otherwise, I'm not sure where those "2 seconds" came from, so also explain it to me.

Just so you're aware, CMC mentioned in the Twitch stream (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1649911918?t=00h52m51s) that there was some leeway and that he thought it would take "about 6 seconds" of being outside 360 range from the mech before the higher passive bonus was lost.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Jijimuge.4675 said:

Just so you're aware, CMC mentioned in the Twitch stream (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1649911918?t=00h52m51s) that there was some leeway and that he thought it would take "about 6 seconds" of being outside 360 range from the mech before the higher passive bonus was lost.

Exactly, so not 2 seconds and that's problematic how exactly? It will be less self-playing? That's the opposite of being a problem, that's a solution (or at least partial solution) to a problematic design.

Thanks for the link though, since I didn't see it. It's in line with what I think though: this change aims at adding some depth (and lets make no mistake here: this is really just a bit more depth) into mech gameplay as well as admitting that it's still slightly overperforming for the extremely trivial way it is played. So what's the issue again?

Edited November 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Jijimuge.4675]

43 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Exactly, so not 2 seconds and that's problematic how exactly? It will be less self-playing? That's the opposite of being a problem, that's a solution (or at least partial solution) to a problematic design.

Thanks for the link though, since I didn't see it. It's in line with what I think though: this change aims at adding some depth (and lets make no mistake here: this is really just a bit more depth) into mech gameplay as well as admitting that it's still slightly overperforming for the extremely trivial way it is played. So what's the issue again?

Personally, I'm not taking a position re this.  I simply remembered the 6 seconds quote and thought it might be useful as you'd asked for a source re the number of seconds the bonus would persist.

And yes, to me, 6 seconds seems relatively forgiving - it's a little depth, but I agree, it would (IMO)still  leave rifle power mech as being very low intensity for what I see as fairly high performance but presumably Anet will look at the usage statistics over time;  from CMC's comments they're keeping a close eye on mechanist at present.

I can see some issues in multi-mech squads with working out which mech belongs to whom, so I'm not sure that this is the right way to add depth, but I don't have any solid alternative suggestions as engi isn't a class I play much of.   I've played a (very) little of condi alacrity mech, but the simplicity of rifle power mech doesn't appeal to me, so I've never tried it.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Jijimuge.4675 said:

Personally, I'm not taking a position re this.  I simply remembered the 6 seconds quote and thought it might be useful as you'd asked for a source re the number of seconds the bonus would persist.

And yes, to me, 6 seconds seems relatively forgiving - it's a little depth, but I agree, it would (IMO)still  leave rifle power mech as being very low intensity for what I see as fairly high performance but presumably Anet will look at the usage statistics over time;  from CMC's comments they're keeping a close eye on mechanist at present.

👍

8 minutes ago, Jijimuge.4675 said:

I can see some issues in multi-mech squads with working out which mech belongs to whom, so I'm not sure that this is the right way to add depth, but I don't have any solid alternative suggestions as engi isn't a class I play much of.   I've played a (very) little of condi alacrity mech, but the simplicity of rifle power mech doesn't appeal to me, so I've never tried it.

Pretty sure "own" mech has a blue label, while squad members' mechs still have the green ones.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

👍

Pretty sure "own" mech has a blue label, while squad members' mechs still have the green ones.

I am afraid that little blue label is not enough in moment of chaos. They can definitely give us better way to distinguish between your mech vs others.

And, to answer your other solution where you have to press a button to call your mech. Many times, mech comes halfway and goes right back to doing whatever it was doing. You have to call it several times and give f command to actually stay where you want it. But, if "F" command is on cooldown, it doesn't stay with you.  And, sometime it goes right past you and stay beyond 360 range.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

I am afraid that little blue label is not enough in moment of chaos.

But it is. You see a mech, if the label is green it's not your mech. Works for me, not sure why it's suddenly supposed to be not enough.

3 minutes ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

They can definitely give us better way to distinguish between your mech vs others.

Maybe. You can always use personal target mark.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Maybe. You can always use personal target mark.

Sure you can but do you really think, players should have to do that? Just give me honest answer and I won't argue with you.

[Vilin.8056]

Just press F7 from time to time after the patch and problem solved.

 

We all know a mech nerf is coming for a long time, at least this is more forgiving than anticipated.

[Duglaive.5236]

5 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

We all know a mech nerf is coming for a long time, at least this is more forgiving than anticipated.

 

And most are also aware that this is unlikely the last nerf; in the long term, little will remain of the current Mechanist. I would think even rifle will be gutted to be little more than the stat stick with a bit of cc and mobility it once was. When that happens, maybe the frothing will end. In addition, I'd speculate the support builds will feel more swings of the nerf bat as well.

To be frank, I'd advise if you like Engineer to start getting cozy with the other elites, or even core. Despite the lingering hate among a certain percentage of the population, such builds are relatively "nerf-safe", beyond Anet's ineptitude that is.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Duglaive.5236

[Sobx.1758]

7 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

Sure you can but do you really think, players should have to do that? Just give me honest answer and I won't argue with you.

Didn't I already pretty much respond to it in the first half of the post you've quoted but for some reason cut out in your post? 😄 

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But it is. You see a mech, if the label is green it's not your mech. Works for me, not sure why it's suddenly supposed to be not enough.

I don't think players need to do it at all, because it already is recognizable without that personal target.

[iNaddict.8021]

2 hours ago, Duglaive.5236 said:

 

And most are also aware that this is unlikely the last nerf; in the long term, little will remain of the current Mechanist. I would think even rifle will be gutted to be little more than the stat stick with a bit of cc and mobility it once was. When that happens, maybe the frothing will end. In addition, I'd speculate the support builds will feel more swings of the nerf bat as well.

To be frank, I'd advise if you like Engineer to start getting cozy with the other elites, or even core. Despite the lingering hate among a certain percentage of the population, such builds are relatively "nerf-safe", beyond Anet's ineptitude that is.

 

isn’t that a sad reality to come to terms with and accept.. gotta keep putting a spec down because it’s easier than someones fav spec.. so much that mechanists should just start learning other specs to save some heart ache.

 

Id like to think anet did something right here, something they perhaps could implement in other specs. (maybe not make classes as simple, but just simpler). 

 

mechanist probably made Metas succeed more now too.. since those inept at handling additional difficulty can contribute..

[Luthan.5236]

There certainly are some weird be haviours. For example the elite signet that is supposed to respawn the mech (while doing an attack if the mech is already there) ... I dislike that you have to manually time it: Not pressing it too early. If you immediately press it when the mech got killed (still moving up into the air) ... the skill does nothing but still goes on cooldown. This should be prevented "technically" - or respawnimg him again after the animation where he moves into the air after being defeated is finished.

The bug where you still get the mech commands (F1-F4 available) visible while the mech is not active ... does not happen that often anymore. At one point though (only once ... few weeks ago) .. I had one mech command skill replaced with a pet skill button (from a ranger pet) ... only until map change though where it refreshed. Or I clicked it and it showed the correct icon and tooltip then.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Sindust.7059]

12 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

sometime it goes right past you and stay beyond 360 range

This. Sometimes I do 2 steps, and the mech just breaks the sound barrier and runs half a mile away when I try to position it when I play alac. For this range thing to work they either need the mech to not just follow, but mirror player movement, in which case we're basically back to this mechanic being irrelevant. Or we need to be able to not just make it follow, but make it go to a specific spot and stay there. But this fix has to either precede the nerf or be released at the same time, otherwise it just makes the spec unusable.

50 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

For example the elite signet that is supposed to respawn the mech (while doing an attack if the mech is already there) ... I dislike that you have to manually time it: Not pressing it too early. If you immediately press it when the mech got killed (still moving up into the air) ... the skill does nothing but still goes on cooldown. This should be prevented "technically" - or respawnimg him again after the animation where he moves into the air after being defeated is finished.

This is another bug. This by the way applies not only to the elite signet. If I recall the mech and use barrier signet, hoping it would stick to me as I move (because the mech movement is chaotic as kitten, and I would not get any barrier if I just made him follow me), it instead sticks to the disappearing mech that isn't supposed to be there any more and I get none of the barrier anyway. I reported this bug in the first week after EoD release, and it still wasn't fixed.

 

Unless these bugs are fixed, additional nerfs are just a slap in the face, especially when the proposed changes rely on these completely broken mechanics. And it's not like DPS mechs are overperforming, even for their simplicity. Soulbeast with axe+warhorn (or short bow if condi) can also be played whack-a-mole style and get to 30k+ DPS. And the overrepresentation you see comes almost exclusively from support builds, because mechs have replaced druids which were severely overrepresented for the entire time raids have existed up until EoD release.

 

All this change will do is make mechanist even more annoying to play than it already is when you try to do anything other than just autoattack.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Sindust.7059

[Alcatraznc.3869]

22 hours ago, Duglaive.5236 said:

 

And most are also aware that this is unlikely the last nerf; in the long term, little will remain of the current Mechanist. I would think even rifle will be gutted to be little more than the stat stick with a bit of cc and mobility it once was. When that happens, maybe the frothing will end. In addition, I'd speculate the support builds will feel more swings of the nerf bat as well.

To be frank, I'd advise if you like Engineer to start getting cozy with the other elites, or even core. Despite the lingering hate among a certain percentage of the population, such builds are relatively "nerf-safe", beyond Anet's ineptitude that is.

 

After the nerf, if you're not playing PvE, rifle WILL just be a stat stick, or at least a secondary/tertiary weapon. The auto attack being not worth using. How many non mechanist player use rifle on Engineer ? Scrapper hammer is just better, Holosmith sword is just better, power core Engineer has no choice but to run rifle but even then, it will mostly camp kit. 

 

What Anet is doing is one for the patch is one big step forward in buffing holo but 2 medium step backward in nerfing rifle and mech. In other word we're back to were we started but with a different flavor this time. Actually if you play core Engineer you are arguably in a worse state because previously you could use rifle auto attack as a good filler in between your CD, now you are better camping whatever kit you're using.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869