Please fix warrior

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

16 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

bruh, there's plenty of classes (everything with symbols, but also mesmers with clones) that can't just "don't proc fc". 

If only there were ways to steal, rip, or corrupt stability...

[Terrorhuz.4695]

12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If only there were ways to steal, rip, or corrupt stability...

You have to do that before the clone decides to proc fc.

[Vancho.8750]

50 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You have to do that before the clone decides to proc fc.

Play Virtuoso then no random clones to proc kitten. 
If you complain that the Area denial strat that counters by default most builds is backfiring vs one of the few builds that can take advantage of it I can't help much with that.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

29 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Play Virtuoso then no random clones to proc kitten. 
If you complain that the Area denial strat that counters by default most builds is backfiring vs one of the few builds that can take advantage of it I can't help much with that.

The problem doesn't come from countering AoE spam.
The problem is when AoE spam is baked into your mechanic and you can't do anything about it. As a mesmer I have to summon clones, it's literally my class resource. I can't play without summoning clones. And I have to summon phantasms, it's literally my mechanic. I'd understand if there was some way to play around that, but there's none.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Vancho.8750]

1 minute ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

The problem is not being able to counter AoE spam.
The problem is when AoE spam is baked into your mechanic and you can't do anything about it. As a mesmer I have to summon clones, it's literally my class resource. I can't play without summoning clones. And I have to summon phantasms, it's literally my mechanic. I'd understand if there was some way to play around that, but there's none.

Well with Warrior your main mechanic is hitting stuff but vs Mesmer and Guardian you don't and you die, Spellbreaker switches up the roles on who is on the receiving end by turning the Strength into weakness. As I said you can play virtuoso for the same reason warrior switches to spellbreaker, it drops some Strength to get advantage in other areas.
Also welcome to the warrior world, kinda sucks that you have to change your whole build based on the match up, but that is how kitten rolls.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

14 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

vs Mesmer and Guardian you don't and you die

You literally always have something to hit around a mesmer. Literally always.

[Vancho.8750]

4 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You literally always have something to hit around a mesmer. Literally always.

But not the mesmer itself.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You literally always have something to hit around a mesmer. Literally always.

So... play a Virtuoso and space out your Phantasms if you are so worried about FC.

 

 

2 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

But not the mesmer itself.

Also ^. Got to say, the easiest mesmer matchups for a warrior are the ones they stay near the warrior. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Lan Deathrider.5910
Typos

[Hotride.2187]

6 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Shouldn't have pvp'd to begin with. Thats also a skill issue. Get good and start raiding.

No, this is a failure to be at the right place in a conquest match. Which is a skill issue. Conquest is not about dueling on a non-duelist spec and then wondering why you lost to a dueling spec. Or dueling someone who outskills you.

Ofc if someone doesnt want to learn where they should be during a conquest match, they can go play pve.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Dr Meta.3158]

10 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

bruh, there's plenty of classes (everything with symbols, but also mesmers with clones) that can't just "don't proc fc". 

I'd just leave it. Not worth the time.

[Dr Meta.3158]

8 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

The problem doesn't come from countering AoE spam.
The problem is when AoE spam is baked into your mechanic and you can't do anything about it. As a mesmer I have to summon clones, it's literally my class resource. I can't play without summoning clones. And I have to summon phantasms, it's literally my mechanic. I'd understand if there was some way to play around that, but there's none.

But yeah, that's the main crux with spellbreaker. Its main mechanic invalidates the main mechanic of other classes and the recent addition of extra resistance only further that issue. Its like how Stoneheart turns off entire builds. This is game design we want to avoid, not promote. 

[Tycura.1982]

It's not op imo but you're right it's not fun to play against either. It takes my low ceiling class and lowers that ceiling even more. I'd like to see it deleted frankly. The best way to beat it is to just not engage it directly. 

[Myror.7521]

@Terrorhuz.4695 just to be totaly fair. A mes has no Problem against a warrior cause of both classes mechanics (mes invulns and clones plus ports,blinds, stealth and Blocks against a warrior that is forced to first cc the enemy before deal dmg and is mostly Single targed dps with high telegraphed skills) how ever spellbraker on the other Hand get a better  chance against a mes cause of full counter and the unblockable dagger f1 skill. (Full counter is a "safe" trigger mechanic against clones and dagger f1 goes simply though blocks)

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

But yeah, that's the main crux with spellbreaker. Its main mechanic invalidates the main mechanic of other classes and the recent addition of extra resistance only further that issue. Its like how Stoneheart turns off entire builds. This is game design we want to avoid, not promote. 

And Warrior's main Mechanic, Bursts (and all trait that require Bursts to connect with an opponent), has been negated by all kind of movement impairments, CC, Blinds, Teleports and even simply outpacing the Warrior since the very beginning of the game.

Since you don't want game mechanics that avoid negating builds, you certainly must be in favour of removing all those things. If you are not in favour of such removals, you simply dislike for Warrior being able to do something.

23 minutes ago, Tycura.1982 said:

It's not op imo but you're right it's not fun to play against either. It takes my low ceiling class and lowers that ceiling even more. I'd like to see it deleted frankly. The best way to beat it is to just not engage it directly. 

And for other people it's not fun to play against Mechanists and their eyesore goo robot, stealth addicts, AoE spam, condition spam, Immobilize spam rangers, Bunkers, or literally any other kind of build.

People need to stop complaining about Warrior once it becomes slightly less unviable. It's literally the easiest profession to learn to play against.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Pengu.7481]

a good spellbreaker can and will trigger FC all the time. no way around that.

saying play virtuoso when all the warrior needs to do to win is dodge the shatters is stupid

cant range them, even if u could, u get 0 blades at all,
if your in melee, you wont cast bladesongs, u will get destroyed by unblockables whnever u try to use block, and war wont let u even cast a bladesong (cuz it will be interrupted when they move past you and they self rupt), your bladesongs do less damage than they are healing for, and bladesong cd is way higher than FC(8s), so they cant ever die (not even accounting for their actual dodges)

dodge f2 and virtu is useless. and dont act like warrior dont have cleanses either. and power virtu is meh at best so that doesnt work either. like no chance

 

war mains needs to stop acting like war is garbage when it rly isnt. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Pengu.7481

[Fueki.4753]

9 minutes ago, Pengu.7481 said:

war mains needs to stop acting like war is garbage when it rly isnt.

Warrior haters need to stop acting like Warrior is op, when it really isn't.

 

[Pengu.7481]

10 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Warrior haters need to stop acting like Warrior is op, when it really isn't.

 

how about u argue against my points instead of calling me a hater? 

tell me why my hating kitten is wrong 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Pengu.7481

[Terrorhuz.4695]

13 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Warrior haters need to stop acting like Warrior is op, when it really isn't.

 

As already mentioned, the only win condition for mesmer was landing power block on mending, and that has been the case for a long time now. All you had to do about that was LoSing your heal, but even that seems to be way too kittening hard.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Fueki.4753]

13 minutes ago, Pengu.7481 said:

how about u argue against my points instead of calling me a hater?

Stay at range. Mesmers have more than enough tools to run from any Warrior.  Warriors can do little to nothing at range.

Start the fight by bursting from range. Unlike Warriors (who actually lose their resource out of combat), Virtuosos can start with fully stocked Blades and hit hard right from the start.

Winning against Warriors is not that hard, they have the simplest mechanics that are easiest mechanics to avoid in the game.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Pengu.7481]

2 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Stay at range. Mesmers have more than enough tools to run from any Warrior.  Warriors can do little to nothing at range.

Start the fight by bursting from range. Unlike Warriors (who actually lose their resource out of combat), Virtuosos can start with fully stocked Blades and hit hard right from the start.

Winning against Warriors is not that hard, they have the simplest mechanics that are easiest mechanics to avoid in the game.

 

 

virtuoso cant stay at range, they need to block to get blades. not like we can stay at range either way since war has us beat on mobility big time. 

the shatter will hit hard from the start sure, if u let it hit u. they are easy to dodge/los however

 

its like u didnt even read any of the points i said prevously ?? im repeating myself here 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

"Warrior being garbo"

Forum: This is fine.

"Warrior being in an ok spot"

Forum: NOOOOOO!!! YOU CANT DO THAT ANET!!!!!! PVP IS DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!

Edited December 9, 2022 by DanAlcedo.3281

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

A few observations:

People act like there isn't a 0.5s delay between triggering FC and it actually going off, during which you can dodge it or get out of range. FC is really strong, sure, but it's no different than any of warrior's other highly telegraphed attacks: very avoidable.

 

Recent posts in this thread have made a sudden shift from "Spellbreaker is strong into Mesmer" to "warrior is fine." This is both dishonest and patently ridiculous.  Spellbreaker is fine.  Spellbreaker is strong into Mesmer. Core, Berserker, and post-nerf Bladesworn? Nope, not even close to meta, and definitely not strong into Mesmer. (As an aside, I think it is telling that warrior needs a "do everything" mechanic like FC for it to be viable. What do you think that says about the underlying profession design and power budget? 🤔)

 

Lastly, Mesmer has more than enough tools to beat warrior, even Spellbreaker. Mesmer can be built to one-shot from stealth, or to wear you down with relentless condition pressure. It has access to all sorts of blocks, evades, invluns, blinds, TPs, and stealth. Mirage can even dodge when CCd (a big deal vs warrior, since so much of their set up depends on CC). If the Mesmer wins, it's because Spellbreaker didn't dodge enough stuff. If Spellbreaker wins, it's because Mesmer didn't dodge enough stuff. That sounds...kinda balanced.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Pengu.7481 said:

virtuoso cant stay at range, they need to block to get blades. not like we can stay at range either way since war has us beat on mobility big time. 

the shatter will hit hard from the start sure, if u let it hit u. they are easy to dodge/los however

 

its like u didnt even read any of the points i said prevously ?? im repeating myself here 

Blade - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
Thats odd... I see a multitude of ways to gain blades without having to block while engaged in melee range....

Perhaps you should tweak your build a little for fighting against Spellbreakers?  Otherwise, it would be like me complaining about fear lock from a Terrormancer when I bring stunbreaks that all give stability and then coming to the forums and saying Necro needs to be fixed😕 (Spoiler, they don't).

Slight snark aside, what @CalmTheStorm.2364 said is true. If you get into a balanced match up, it's going to come down to who didn't dodge at the critical moment, or who misplayed their opening. In Virts case, they're still a mesmer and can still spike from out of stealth and/or blink away if they screw it up, or spam distortion with signets. 

[shion.2084]

I have a hard time with warrior as a scrapper.  I can beat one that's a weaker player than me... but anyone close has a flat advantage.  They tend to close range very well when you are ranged, and if I stay ranged I can't do enough damage to pressure it off the point.

 

The real damage from my attacks relies on me being in mele.  There's nothing with enough stability to be able to deal with the ridiculous number of stuns that I have access too.   I even tried doing FT with juggernaut.  Essentially I spend most of my time either not being able to do damage, or having to hit into full counter (ie backing up off point).  My shredder gyro triggers the kitten thing.

 

Generally fights go to stalemate for a while, where they aren't taking enough damage that they can't sustain through, then they'll manage to land a CC that I couldn't avoid cause I'm out of dodges... and once one hits its over.

 

I think the reason people complain about this warrior build is that it removes agency.  There's a good period of time where you literally can't do any damage to them, or can't hit them with your best attacks, and by the time that expires they've healed.  
The second lack of agency is that when they do manage to land a stun... there's a chaining effect and from that point there are situations where there's literally nothing you can do for the next 4 seconds but watch yourself die.   I think it'd be less painful if you just gave them a 20K attack and get it over with.   Of course there's gun flame for that 🙂

Anyway its not really a complaint about warriors being viable... its about the way in which they are viable.

[shion.2084]

4 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I have a hard time with warrior as a scrapper.  I can beat one that's a weaker player than me... but anyone close has a flat advantage.  They tend to close range very well when you are ranged, and if I stay ranged I can't do enough damage to pressure it off the point.

 

The real damage from my attacks relies on me being in mele.  There's nothing with enough stability to be able to deal with the ridiculous number of stuns that I have access too.   I even tried doing FT with juggernaut.  Essentially I spend most of my time either not being able to do damage, or having to hit into full counter (ie backing up off point).  My shredder gyro triggers the kitten thing.

 

Generally fights go to stalemate for a while, where they aren't taking enough damage that they can't sustain through, then they'll manage to land a CC that I couldn't avoid cause I'm out of dodges... and once one hits its over.

 

I think the reason people complain about this warrior build is that it removes agency.  There's a good period of time where you literally can't do any damage to them, or can't hit them with your best attacks, and by the time that expires they've healed.  
The second lack of agency is that when they do manage to land a stun... there's a chaining effect and from that point there are situations where there's literally nothing you can do for the next 4 seconds but watch yourself die.   I think it'd be less painful if you just gave them a 20K attack and get it over with.   Of course there's gun flame for that 🙂

Anyway its not really a complaint about warriors being viable... its about the way in which they are viable.

My other issue is that my class tends to be weak to condi... so the AOE spam condi variant of the warrior essentially means there's no close contesting of the point in between openings.   It completely shuts me down.