Revert mech change or refund people

[Glad.7624]

I only bought Eod in late june to get the mechanist because of the rework of rifle. Not because it's op but for how fun the rifle felt and the low intensity part of the build. When i started the game early this year, I forced myself playing warrior for fews months then tried necro and guardian but none of them was fun gameplay wise. Even tried ele scepter recently after the patch, but it doesn't do the trick for me. They didn't just nerf the mechanist in term of dps (especially in wvw/pvp), but just made it not fun to play with that mech genius debuff. The rifle auto isn't appealing anymore aswell. I feel ripped off and i'm not the only who feel the same, they should refund people asking for it. 

 

Ps: sorry for my broken english.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

Yeah, sorry mate. That won't be happening. You agreed to the terms in which it states things can change here. And guess what, things have changed with balance and what not. This is the nature of MMOs in general with balance patches. The best you can do is ask for them to change it back(which is also a slim chance), but getting a refund this late is not something that will be happening.

[Kodama.6453]

3 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

best you can do is ask for them to change it back(which is also a slim chance)

Don't think chances for that are that bad, tbh.

As far as I have seen, the overwhelming majority of people dislike the change since it makes the spec clunky. It has been an experiment, but I think it didn't work out too well, especially since it is repeating a mistake they already made with the original gyros, which they later had to admit were simply unfun to play and therefore they got reworked.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Don't think chances for that are that bad, tbh.

As far as I have seen, the overwhelming majority of people dislike the change since it makes the spec clunky. It has been an experiment, but I think it didn't work out too well, especially since it is repeating a mistake they already made with the original gyros, which they later had to admit were simply unfun to play and therefore they got reworked.

 

IDK. I always places my bets on low and hope I am proven wrong over placing bets on high and being disappointed in the outcome.

[Kodama.6453]

Just now, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

IDK. I always places my bets on low and hope I am proven wrong over placing bets on high and being disappointed in the outcome.

At the very least, tho, it is crystal clear that the rifle auto attack needs follow up.

First, they need to take another look at the animation. The change was supposed to be net neutral in PvE, but the reality is that it ended up as a dps nerf, since someone somewhere messed something up with the animation. It takes longer than it is supposed to.

Second, they have to increase the damage coefficients for the shots in PvP/WvW. It is outperformed by the elixir gun auto attack, which is already weird. And now it even is less damage than the pre-rework rifle auto attack.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

At the very least, tho, it is crystal clear that the rifle auto attack needs follow up.

First, they need to take another look at the animation. The change was supposed to be net neutral in PvE, but the reality is that it ended up as a dps nerf, since someone somewhere messed something up with the animation. It takes longer than it is supposed to.

Second, they have to increase the damage coefficients for the shots in PvP/WvW. It is outperformed by the elixir gun auto attack, which is already weird. And now it even is less damage than the pre-rework rifle auto attack.

 

Oh yeah, I agree with you there in showing the new AA's bugs which needs to be fixed which I am confident in that they will for it to go back to where it was DPS wise in PvE. Something needs to be adjusted speed wise there. I also agree with them buffing PvP/WvW back to the old numbers because it needs it.

As for reverting the mechanical genius and going back to triple shot AA, I doubt they will. At most, for the mechanical one they will tighten the leash for the mech, so it is easier to control. 

[idpersona.3810]

No chance of them refunding, but they have to change something (or multiple somethings) with how rifle mech runs now.

PvE either isn't terrible, or it's easy enough that it's hard to notice the big difference. Though I certainly feel like there is.
WvW kind of sucks now. Was running this morning and hitting for 3-400 dmg. And trying to pay any sort of attention to mech positioning seems kind of impossible.

 

[Obtena.7952]

17 hours ago, Glad.7624 said:

I only bought Eod in late june to get the mechanist because of the rework of rifle.

That's just bad judgement to buy a whole expansion because of one weapon rework, considering how much and how often this game has changes, how there would be no guarantee rifle wouldn't undergo further changes. 

Rifle isn't even EoD restricted (you didn't need to buy EoD to take advantage of the rifle rework in the first place) so the reasoning you have isn't very sound.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

17 hours ago, Glad.7624 said:

I only bought Eod in late june to get the mechanist because of the rework of rifle

"Rework rifle" doesn't have much to do with eod or mechanist btw, it's a core weapon. You could play rifle with 0 expansions.

[ardhikaizecson.3697]

I dislike mechanist, but changing rifle autos just to nerf mechanist is a wrong thing to imo since it also affect core eng or holosmith who uses it.

[Glad.7624]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"Rework rifle" doesn't have much to do with eod or mechanist btw, it's a core weapon. You could play rifle with 0 expansions.

Seems like you didn't understood what i said or maybe i didn't phrase my thought properly. I didn't have Eod before the rifle rework because i didn't like melee mechanist, nor pistol/old rifle. If you didn't know, rifle skills got changed in June for mechanist and that's what got me in love with the class.

Once again it's not about dps but how good the skills feel(animations,sounds, etc...) and the gameplay(for the case of mech genius who makes playing with the mecha clunky and not fun at all).

[Ruisenior.6342]

22 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

Yeah, sorry mate. That won't be happening. You agreed to the terms in which it states things can change here. And guess what, things have changed with balance and what not. This is the nature of MMOs in general with balance patches. The best you can do is ask for them to change it back(which is also a slim chance), but getting a refund this late is not something that will be happening.

And that's why i won't spend a single minut anymore on a mmo

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Ruisenior.6342 said:

And that's why i won't spend a single minut anymore on a mmo

Ok and repeating it on an mmo forum is somehow better I guess?

[Passerbye.6291]

On 12/8/2022 at 3:05 AM, Glad.7624 said:

I only bought Eod in late june to get the mechanist because of the rework of rifle. Not because it's op but for how fun the rifle felt and the low intensity part of the build. When i started the game early this year, I forced myself playing warrior for fews months then tried necro and guardian but none of them was fun gameplay wise. Even tried ele scepter recently after the patch, but it doesn't do the trick for me. They didn't just nerf the mechanist in term of dps (especially in wvw/pvp), but just made it not fun to play with that mech genius debuff. The rifle auto isn't appealing anymore aswell. I feel ripped off and i'm not the only who feel the same, they should refund people asking for it. 

 

Ps: sorry for my broken english.

So, you say you didn't like mechanist because it was overperforming, but because it was fun, unlikely, but let's roll with it. Since we're talking about rifle mechanist, you are very likely to fit into one of 3 categories:
1- Auto attack only rifle mech, in this case, what gameplay?
2- No grenade kit, throw mine rifle mech, in this case you spam a few abilities off of cooldown, not much of a gameplay but this still exists for when you just wanna chill and do fair bit of damage and get through content, it is also a great build for people with disabilities or injuries to not feel like they are burdening others in group content. 
3- Grenade kit, standard power mech, played either with auto-cast mech abilities or manual cast with cancelled aftercasts to maximize damage. Still an overall easy build, only takes skill to cancel aftercasts which adds complexity to the build should you choose to engage it.

Now, since you said you didn't play it for how OP it was, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't necessarily want mech to do 28-30k dps with autos alone (prenerf-aim assisted rockets) and what bothers you is only the mech genius, since the rifle change didn't change your gameplay at all and if anything, the prolonged animation of rifle autos will likely get fixed soon enough. With mech genius being the only thing that encourages to engage combat in a different manner than you previously did, I don't really know what gameplay change you're talking about. If anything, you can completely disregard mech genius and still play the same, you'll just do less damage, but it will still be more than enough to do content. Someone even did the math for this and using auto attack only mech builds for dps is enough to get through most, if not all, dps checks in the game (didn't confirm the math myself but people did auto attack only firebrand clears of raids in this game so I'm willing to bet it is correct).

TLDR: You, my friend liked how OP mech was for 0/little effort, you just like to think otherwise. You enjoyed obliterating content and there is nothing wrong with that, quite a lot of us like doing great damage, but mech did need nerfs for how easy it was to play with how versatile it was (400+ hp recovery per second, ungodly amounts of CC, dps uptime and range, blink, stun break and condi cleanse to name a few). If anything, the addition of mechanical genius adds some much needed complexity to the class, giving the balance team room to make it a competitive elite without having it overperform or be overly easy in the future, and you still get to play it in a super simplistic and chill manner should you wish to do so, albeit at a DPS cost.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Passerbye.6291

[Hemi.5267]

Personally I don't care about the the changes to the mech, or the nerf to the rifle damage. But man... I miss that animation. It was fun blasting stuff. At least give us the animation back or do something to make the current more fluent. 

 

So no, I really don't care about DPS or how OP is was. I do care about how it played and the flow it had. Sure it's easy button bashing, but I kinda like that once in a while. By reverting the animation (NOT the damage) I would play it again, but for now my buddy cop movie is parked near a few mint nodes. Sad... 😭

 

Man this was a fun class... 😭

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

What about those still running core, do they get to refund 10 years of their lives?

[Zzik.5873]

This patch was an anti fun patch for engi. We now have the ugliest weapon skill animation of the whole game (rifle 1) and the mechanist feel soooooo clunky now. What a bunch of unfun and kitten change.

[Matoro.9708]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

What about those still running core, do they get to refund 10 years of their lives?

Feels like it's been longer.

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

TLDR: You, my friend liked how OP mech was for 0/little effort, you just like to think otherwise. (...), but mech did need nerfs for how easy it was to play with how versatile it was

Yup, exactly. And it was also repeatedly pointed out, so not sure why those same people still keep pretending that exact thing 😄

3 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

We now have the ugliest weapon skill animation of the whole game (rifle 1)

Nope, not even close, still fail to see what's so "ugly" about it.

3 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

and the mechanist feel soooooo clunky now.

Not really though.

[Dibit.6259]

Hi, mechanist pve user here, thought I'd share some experiences and opinions that may be helpful to some of those who read this discussion.

I've played the low intensity condi mace,  low intensity power mace and low intensity dps power rifle builds and still play Ham and low intensity Alac dps. In my opinion the nerf to mechanist was justified and the class is still viable. There are still issues sure, but there will always be issues when trying to obtain balance. There's nothing wrong with having low intensity builds that do decent damage per say but it should not be on the same level as classes or builds that require more effort. And the aspect of having to manage the mech is not a huge problem and only requires a small amount of effort. Does this new level of effort really destroy the gameplay? It's still easy to play class and has the necessary skills and utilities to be able to do most if not all content of pve.

With the changes to the rifle auto attack animation, personally I don't really care much about it, it seems more of a aesthetic kind of complaint to me. I don't really tend to get upset by whether an animation looks cool or not as long as it doesn't cause problems to the damage. I can understand people's disappointment though since pew pew pew was hilarious when it first came out xD. My knowledge of pvp and wvw is lacking so I can not write about that myself.

In regards to your comment about only buying the game to play mech after the update...erm, is this true? Like you're saying that was th only thing that made you buy the game, but you also state you tried other classes? And tbh only buying a game to play 1 class seems a bit short sighted. I don't know what your personal look for in games but when spending money to buy a game it's usually best to consider all aspects of the game/expansion you are buying to make sure you don't regret it later. And the fact you said you bought it after the rifle rework means that Eod had been out for a good few months meaning there were plenty of reviews on information on the content of the expansion.

Lastly, your request for refund on these ground will mostly be denied as you agreed to the terms and conditions when purchasing that allows Anet/NCSOFT to make changes to the game.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Dibit.6259

[WolfinTD.3904]

I was on the mechanist train when EoD had just come out, stayed on it for a few months too. So I do have considerable experience with the class, I'm not speaking out of my kitten. You bought the expansion only because rifle became the behemoth it was before recent patches? Where's the point in spending money on something that might change in 2 weeks? MMO balance never stagnates, and big reworks do happen. Did you just assume that the rifle you bought EoD for would stay the same forever, even though you yourself realize it was busted OP? You got exactly what you paid for, the weapon is almost the exact same as it was in animations and gameplay. And speaking of the Mech Genius change, it's the exact same way that heal mechanist is played. HAM always has to micromanage the mech and make it stack on the squad to provide boons. There's nothing wrong with not caring about the debuff, your low intensity gameplay will stay exactly as it was. All that'll change is your damage numbers, which shouldn't matter because they were wildly overtuned before the changes.

You're not getting a refund either btw, you need some legitimate reason for one of those.

Edited December 10, 2022 by WolfinTD.3904

[Rezzet.3614]

i still dont quite get how rifle was nerfed , means we shoot the nade round faster wich means we benefit of the  explosive passives more 

 

mech nerfs were definetly evil , i'd understand if it was just on normal pvp 

[gert.7698]

A refund may be a bit exaggerated, but I understand the disappointment.. I was a banner slave for years as main.  I played strikes and fractals.  i loved that.  Until Anet decided to destroy that roll.  I was very disappointed.  
But I started playing as a power mech, and really liked it.  It became my new main and I even started into raids.  I gained legendary armor, the road to it was long and time consuming, but I did it especially for my engineer.  I just liked my engi mech very much.
Suddenly Anet decided to drastically change this class as well….

Now the measure was full.  Lost all the time and effort I put into it, I just got my legendary armor and suddenly the engineer is not fun to play anymore… This is really bad… I hope Anet reverses the decisions soon.  At this point I really don't feel like playing Guild Wars again. 

[Marika.5726]

Anet, you're losing players by these decisions. I've watched other MMO's crash and burn through such stupidity. Really hate to see the gam go that way.

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, Marika.5726 said:

Anet, you're losing players by these decisions.

I wonder why you think you're somehow in a better place to make that statement than anet with their readily and directly available stats? It sure isn't fearmongering and making up stuff in order to get what you specifically want, right? 😉 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Sobx.1758