The patch was a failure and went in completely wrong direction

[Creativity.3816]

imo just add perma marked showing groups (maybe over 20 or something) in the areas where people can glide - sentries really dont do anything... dots would always appear and that would make defending more natural, and add a dynamic where smaller groups could try and sneak objectives without just immediately getting zerged down as soon as a commander sees only a few dots

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, RedBaron.6058 said:

It's interesting to see which servers all these Outnumbered skeptics play on...LoL

 

On 2/2/2023 at 2:42 PM, Riba.3271 said:

Yep, outnumbered buff should not give stats to people.

12 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

No, even as someone that likes to defend, outnumbered should not give any stat bonuses by itself. 

 

🙂 Riba we found common ground! 🙂 Good hunting as always and let's keep the discussion flowing.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

the patch was pretty pointless yeah. nobody needed siege buffs ... but the next round of changes looks equally bad so yeah, same old story.

anet probably does this on purpose, just messing up the gamemode more and more

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

the patch was pretty pointless yeah. nobody needed siege buffs ... but the next round of changes looks equally bad so yeah, same old story.

anet probably does this on purpose, just messing up the gamemode more and more

The patch does 2 things...make people play more after the weekend (since the achievements reset on Mondays) and make PPT even more interesting.

I fully admit that when I was going for the weekly achievements last week, I let camps and towers go just so they could be recapped. So on Monday it'll be the same again just so I can get those achievements taken care of asap. For me they're just an annoyance that have to be dealt with to get more tickets. After I do them I can go back to my preferred way of playing.

[Zepoolpe.9217]

Guys! Guys!
Why are you arguing between yourselves about it?
It's a GW2 balance patch: ofc it sucks and goes in the wrong direction!
In case you forgot, any balance patch will:

1. Give more boons.
2. Remove boonstrips.
3. Will not fix any that is broken, bugged, exploited, etc...
4. Revert some previous changes (that most likely were reversions from previous changes).
5. Nerf mesmer.

Stop acting as if you are discovering this...
 

[Chaos God.1639]

the patch brought more activity from what I have seen. players are now attacking more and the defenders need to react quicker. the battlegrounds are more dynamic now.

sometimes I think the players are the ones who want to destroy pvp and wvw. the devs created an update that's not a failure. if the patch did something you didn't like that's another problem.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Chaos God.1639

[Gorani.7205]

31 minutes ago, Chaos God.1639 said:

the patch brought more activity from what I have seen...

I agree on more people on the map. That same thing happens we have those special weekends with more reward track progression and more WxP.
My observation is that the vast majority of the "new players" show the "tag and leave" mentality you can't rely on as a more committed WvW player. People don't carry supply, they flee fights that are not at least in 3vs1 in favour of their sides, they snipe dollies at camps, they attack camps on 4 min of RI and a very high percentage does not even seem to listen to committed WvW that try to talk to them.
The WvW weekly as a concept, IMO can only be counted as a progressive way in the right direction if that randomness of player participation will be reduced and the new people drawn to the mode are willing to actually participate in the mode - and not just see it as a means of personal gain.
PS: As I have posted on other threads, I think the way the weekly meta is set up, it is perhaps the worst design option possible (meta achievement, high target numbers, including very hard goals for non zerg game play with SMC & keeps and putting the coin rewards in the end chest) compared to an option like Festival weekly progression where almost everything gives you a percentage to contribute to the weekly (keeps would be worth a lot more than dollies e.g.) and the gold could have been distributed to all chests.

[Daxia.1425]

4 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

The patch does 2 things...make people play more after the weekend (since the achievements reset on Mondays) and make PPT even more interesting.

 

8 gold per week, i doubt that it is something that will lure people in. PPT isnt that interesting, its the fights around it. The update didnt made it more interesting. Now its just fast in and out and recap. Maybe if you are on a mindless nightshift crew that is your thing... The update is just an empty glass. And there will prolly be more. How can you take Anet serious with such changes?

 

Someone said it nicely in an other post and it just shows how pathetic and insulting these patches are. No changes to what really bothers players.

 

* Wall shine reduction 10%

 

It be really nice if they gave a roadmap where they heading, give real targets and work towards them.

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I fully admit that when I was going for the weekly achievements last week, I let camps and towers go just so they could be recapped.

So the question here is how to balance. What's going to make people stop and say I don't want them to have this, versus what was already mentioned many times before, the 'we can just get it back later' that has already been seen so shortly after the release. Its funny now all of the main maps are EoTM. Time to stop bashing that map.

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So the question here is how to balance. What's going to make people stop and say I don't want them to have this, versus what was already mentioned many times before, the 'we can just get it back later' that has already been seen so shortly after the release. Its funny now all of the main maps are EoTM. Time to stop bashing that map.

This is just another example of the dichotomy of WvW. People want more activity and loudly cry for changes on the forum. Then when they get activity it's like noooooo not THAT activity!

[Kozumi.5816]

On 2/2/2023 at 2:42 PM, Riba.3271 said:

Yep, outnumbered buff should not give stats to people. Claim buff already killed competitive duels around sm, imagine a mapwide buff.

Any system where 2 groups or players that could have decent fights might not be able to do so next day because there are some passive stats caused by surroundings or afks in spawn, is just bad design. In the end WvW should be about finding a fun timezone and then that timezone staying relatively same, not about big changes if 1 objective changes owner or 2 people decide to not log in that day.

Duels in WvW have always been and always will be a joke as long as it allows PvE stat combinations and doesn't use SPvP balancing.

[Xenesis.6389]

Well there's one thing for sure... there's a lot more roamers around... alot more people standing around to take camps like 5-10 usually now... more activity on the map... and there's still stuff hitting t3... so people are defending...

🤷‍♂️

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

This is just another example of the dichotomy of WvW. People want more activity and loudly cry for changes on the forum. Then when they get activity it's like noooooo not THAT activity!

 

Its 3AM so leave me a spot to reply in the day time. Agree and disagree on a number of fronts. Agree and lol on the dichotomy bit and great choice of word which does sum it up. But you know I am long winded and you open the door to where this works and doesn't as an example of how to expand further. But I need sleep first. So good hunting till the morrow and many bags may you collect while you hunt.

[enkidu.5937]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:58 AM, Esufer.8762 said:

No worries, I'll make sure my next vid is the most "action packed" hour of dolyak escorting available on Youtube.

try to ride them pls 😵

[Gehenna.3625]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:26 PM, Daxia.1425 said:

8 gold per week, i doubt that it is something that will lure people in. PPT isnt that interesting, its the fights around it. The update didnt made it more interesting. Now its just fast in and out and recap. Maybe if you are on a mindless nightshift crew that is your thing... The update is just an empty glass. And there will prolly be more. How can you take Anet serious with such changes?

PPT isn't that interesting to YOU and I fear that's a minority view. There are many people who just care about winning and the easier it is, the better. Anet caters to these people. It's not just a nightshift thing. On my server there are PPT commanders at all times pretty much and very few fight comms. The main reason for that is that enemy servers have larger fight groups in general.

I'll give you this to consider: on the EU side there are 2 servers that are really just the most effective servers. They blow the other servers out of the water essentially. But are they always in Tier 1? No. One of the servers is tanking and the other one is coming up from tanking. So why is that? You think they're interested in exciting fights or do you think they just care about winning and slaughtering enemy servers?

And 8 gold is 8 gold especially if you can make it in one night (which you can), but there's more to it. You'd be surprised by the way how little gold OW PvE'ers can have. And for them 8 gold is quite a lot. Also you forget about the extra WvW tickets that makes getting a legendary set of wvw armor cost 2 weeks less. I think that's the main draw and not the gold.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

You'd be surprised by the way how little gold OW PvE'ers can have. And for them 8 gold is quite a lot.

Yeah 30-50g/h is pretty weak compared to 8g/week.

[TheGrimm.5624]

18 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

This is just another example of the dichotomy of WvW. People want more activity and loudly cry for changes on the forum. Then when they get activity it's like noooooo not THAT activity!

This is a balancing act but potentially also of one game mode's bias being pulled into another. So in sPvP they viewed defense as slow and stalemating and boring so they therefore said how do we fix it, we remove options to hold. And I admit in a game that lasts only a few minutes I could see that since it might encourage more people to fight. But what we seem to have is them applying the same rule to WvW which is a 7 day game mode by trying each time to remove more options to defend thinking they will get the same result of more fights but instead it leads to more people being encouraged to not fight and just go around each. Still new changes and things will change agree, and agree changes are good, but the sPvP ideas applying to WvW are a concern. The same game concept in one mode may not results in the same impact in another. Now add to that the balance in PPT and PPK and the stakes go up further, which is a different topic. Now granted players don't have access to fights avoided, so mileage will vary. Has anyone seen any heat maps for GW2 showing activity around objectives? Haven't myself. So the question will be does the ratio of flips to kills and deaths remain the same or do flips just go up. If flips just go up, we have more ktrains and less fights, if stays balanced then agree it means more activity. Not sure anyone has access to those numbers so time will tell.

[TheGrimm.5624]

22 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Yeah 30-50g/h is pretty weak compared to 8g/week.

Yeah but they don't have access to as many broken spoons, so they are totally jealous and will seek out our amazing loot tables. 

[Biermeister.4678]

Loving my Open field Flame rams 

[Lukasz.9476]

I don't know if somehow I landed outside Anet's intended "target audience" or something, but over the years the changes are all going in the wrong direction from where I stand.

 

Fights should not be all about who brings the larger boonblob. The increased amount of boon sources, without similar increase of available boonstrips (also, incidentally, turning a lot of builds/professions unsuitable to roaming), introduction of target caps, and basically all the changes that went into letting boonblobs facetank any damage thrown at them (as long as they have enough support) ends up simply increasing the advantages of higher population teams against their opponents.

 

The fact that apparently defensive positions now should be destroyed faster, and easier, is just a mind-boggling choice. Even towers should be difficult enough to take (something that should absolutely not be possible with 2-3 people, much less solo), and keeps/SMC should require hours of actual active participation against any kind of defensive presence.

 

Instead of stopping map-wipes so common with time-zone-specific advantage of one server or another (unless it's MAG, which will inevitably get paired up with another high population server, because ANET wouldn't have it any other way /s), they decided to make it even easier?

 

If bag-farming guilds have such an issue with OBJECTIVE-BASED gameplay, give them an open map to challenge other guilds on as a separate game mode.

 

The whole sodding point of WvW, at least to me, is gameplay based around sieges and defense of fortifications, not running around the field looking for PUG groups to bag.

 

The whole mode has been steadily getting less and less entertaining, and instead of making it fun, Anet apparently wants to cater to... whatever crowd their changes are intended to get excited about them.

 

Revert the damage nerf to deployable siege weapons. Increase durability of all supervisors/lords so that there's ample time for the owner team to react and defend. Make teamwork matter more than just boon-blobbing. Remove bloody target caps. Address the complete lack of boonstrips in multiple professions' skill lineups, if not rework boons to be less omnipresent.

 

Make player actions - and teamwork - matter, and be enjoyable, not just a string of constant PPT flips, because it's near impossible nowadays to get a decently matched group fights anyway.

 

All I'm seeing is just changes making it easier for dominating servers to dominate harder, at the expense of everyone else. Then again, shouldn't be much of a surprise by now.

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Yeah 30-50g/h is pretty weak compared to 8g/week.

that's the potential, not the actual. I refer to those players who don't occupy themselves with gold per hour and figuring out how to convert meta rewards to gold and such. I know there are people out there that make lots of gold but I'm guessing they don't have any trouble getting legendary armor sets as it is now.

[Xenesis.6389]

19 minutes ago, Lukasz.9476 said:

I don't know if somehow I landed outside Anet's intended "target audience" or something, but over the years the changes are all going in the wrong direction from where I stand.

 

Fights should not be all about who brings the larger boonblob. The increased amount of boon sources, without similar increase of available boonstrips (also, incidentally, turning a lot of builds/professions unsuitable to roaming), introduction of target caps, and basically all the changes that went into letting boonblobs facetank any damage thrown at them (as long as they have enough support) ends up simply increasing the advantages of higher population teams against their opponents.

 

The fact that apparently defensive positions now should be destroyed faster, and easier, is just a mind-boggling choice. Even towers should be difficult enough to take (something that should absolutely not be possible with 2-3 people, much less solo), and keeps/SMC should require hours of actual active participation against any kind of defensive presence.

 

Instead of stopping map-wipes so common with time-zone-specific advantage of one server or another (unless it's MAG, which will inevitably get paired up with another high population server, because ANET wouldn't have it any other way /s), they decided to make it even easier?

 

If bag-farming guilds have such an issue with OBJECTIVE-BASED gameplay, give them an open map to challenge other guilds on as a separate game mode.

 

The whole sodding point of WvW, at least to me, is gameplay based around sieges and defense of fortifications, not running around the field looking for PUG groups to bag.

 

The whole mode has been steadily getting less and less entertaining, and instead of making it fun, Anet apparently wants to cater to... whatever crowd their changes are intended to get excited about them.

 

Revert the damage nerf to deployable siege weapons. Increase durability of all supervisors/lords so that there's ample time for the owner team to react and defend. Make teamwork matter more than just boon-blobbing. Remove bloody target caps. Address the complete lack of boonstrips in multiple professions' skill lineups, if not rework boons to be less omnipresent.

 

Make player actions - and teamwork - matter, and be enjoyable, not just a string of constant PPT flips, because it's near impossible nowadays to get a decently matched group fights anyway.

 

All I'm seeing is just changes making it easier for dominating servers to dominate harder, at the expense of everyone else. Then again, shouldn't be much of a surprise by now.

Hello, I would like to subscribe to your newsletter!

[Chaba.5410]

29 minutes ago, Lukasz.9476 said:

The whole sodding point of WvW, at least to me, is gameplay based around sieges and defense of fortifications, not running around the field looking for PUG groups to bag.


Make player actions - and teamwork - matter, and be enjoyable,

Sieges are NOT enjoyable.  Sieging a defended structure results in 90% of the players standing around waiting for walls/gates to go down.  There's only a small number of those players on the actual siege, trying to coordinate, etc.  Maybe there's some random action when someone gets pulled off a wall or tries to throw a disabler, but look at it seriously.  Everyone just stands around semi-afk waiting to engage in combat.

I don't know how you can possibly believe that standing around is enjoyable to the majority of players.  Do you think the eles of old loved being shoehorned into using their swirling winds against trebs all the time?  So many eles rejoiced when that was fixed.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Lukasz.9476]

11 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Sieges are NOT enjoyable.  Sieging a defended structure results in 90% of the players standing around waiting for walls/gates to go down.  There's only a small number of those players on the actual siege, trying to coordinate, etc.  Maybe there's some random action when someone gets pulled off a wall or tries to throw a disabler, but look at it seriously.  Everyone just stands around semi-afk waiting to engage in combat.

I don't know how you can possibly believe that standing around is enjoyable to the majority of players.  Do you think the eles of old loved being shoehorned into using their swirling winds against trebs all the time?  So many eles rejoiced when that was fixed.

Then maybe they should be made more enjoyable?

 

Maybe more people should have to use their own deployable siege weapons, or ensure proper defense of the deployed ones from enemy counter-attacks? How many times you've seen siege weapon duels lately? Because, in my experience, near all of the time it's one dominant team setting up a four or five catapults, ignoring any AC or counter-catapult fire coming at them, and breaching under a minute. I could count on a blind carpenter hand's fingers the amount of times I've seen open-field trebs set up to address enemy defenses.

 

Hell, if you think siege in general is boring, why not ask Anet to make an open field map just for people like you so you don't have to worry about pesky siege gameplay in the first place? Considering the presence of fortifications in WvW since its begining, that'd clearly be a better choice for you. Personally,  I'd rather see expansion of tools to work with in the supposedly intended objective-based gameplay, not turn it into Benny Hill-montage-like constant string of flips one way or another.

 

Then we both would get our entertainment, because I don't see much fun in "who has the larger boonblob wins" "fights."

 

Which already happens once in a blue moon, anyway, because population balancing, the thing that should be the first and only thing on Anet's list of things to immediately address, is completely screwed up.

 

Making it even more difficult for less-populous servers to hold any kind of objectives doesn't sound like a "solution" to me.

 

But hey, the new weekly rewards were so well thought out that they force teams to hand over keeps and SMC from time to time anyway, so all's well, right? /s

[Xenesis.6389]

Yeah they should totally just make every objective into a camp, cause standing around is a major problem.