Ele changes previewed so far on Feb 3 preview

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Overall the update looks pretty good. Kinda mixed feelings about burning speed & earthen rush. Its amazing for instanced PvE content, but its annoying AF for WvW/pvp. The whole beauty of the d/d is that you can "dance" around your enemy. Switching it to a leap will make you alot easier to target. Best option now is probably to temporarily untarget your enemy so you can still leap through them. Maybe switch the skill only for PvE?

 

Staff rework seems to be a step in the right direction. Frozen ground is really weird though. Its a 1200 range skill primarily focused on hitting large groups of enemies. Why would you suddenly add in extra aurasupport for allies in the aoe? Its almost completely useless for WvW unless both zergs fully collide into eachother. 

 

Also staff could really use some faster projectiles and shorter delay on impact on lava font, ice spike and eruption. 

 

Also im very curious about the dps output of the Pdps Weaver. It wouldn't surprise me if it will be able to hit 43k+ post patch. Also with FA, weave self and unravel there should be quite some wacky/interesting rotations out there that i'd like to try out. 

 

Last but not least: Pweaver will get an extra 1.85k health in full dps gear. Berserker gear+superior elements+ Fury will result in a 3.4% overcap of crit chance. You can basically just swap out 5/6 armor pieces for dragon stats and still run 60% crit chance. 

[Jski.6180]

The cantrip and conja wepon nerf in wvw is beyond reason i must say.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

So, does this mean that power sword got even more buffs now? Because if it does I am all for it.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

9 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

?

Not a fan. Range is quite low already with a large "blast" range. There is no issue to actually hit people with it; on contrary it's all the point to go through the target, may be chain leaps, and stay at 240 range with dagger.

This change was made so dagger ele doesn't fling itself into danger during fractals/raids.  Rushing right through the boss off a cliff or into fire was a quick way to die with dagger variants.  

[Jski.6180]

14 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

This change was made so dagger ele doesn't fling itself into danger during fractals/raids.  Rushing right through the boss off a cliff or into fire was a quick way to die with dagger variants.  

This is why it is important to have skill splits witch they did not this time and its kind of messed up a type of game play.

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

STAFF

• Flame Burst - inflicts blind not just burning
• Burning Retreat 18s cooldown
• Water Blast - ally targetting
• Geyser - WvW/PVP increased heal attribute scaling from 1.0 to 1.25
• Frozen Ground - applies frost aura
• Healing rain - heals allies for each condition removed , increased conditions removed per pulse to 2 in PVE
• Gust - ground target
• Windborne Speed - applies superspeed
• Transmute earth - grants stability instead of protection... 600 radius

 

The staff changes seem interesting, especially the healing rain, frozen ground, gust, and transmute earth, which finally gives a proper way to apply stab as well.

This might be a nice gamechanger for some new healbuilds for pve based on staff, but have to see first...

 

11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Scepter nerfs

• Dragon's Tooth: Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 1.5 in PvP and WvW.
• Water Trident: Reduced ammunition from 2 to 1 in PvP and WvW.
• Blinding Flash: Reduced ammunition from 2 to 1 in PvP and WvW. Reduced weakness duration from 2.5 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.

 

 

On the one hand, it was to be expected (since all the PvP trolls not playing ele flooded the forum in the last days), on the other hand, I think it is the absolutely wrong way because the far bigger problems are the catalyst itself and (since beginning) doomstacking classes, not really the scepter itself.

 

11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Unlabeled

• Burning speed stops moving when reaches enemy
• Earthen rush stops moving when reaching enemy
• Soothing Disruption no longer reduces recharge of cantrips
• - reduced PVE cooldown from 40 to 20s
• Cleansing Fire - ammo skill , grants personal might per condition (ammo cooldown 25)
• Armor  of earth - barrier for each unique boon on user, reduced duration to 4s in PVP and cooldown from 60s to 40s in PVP
• Ether Renewal - reduced cast from 2.75s to 2.25s , cooldown from 18 to 15
• Conjurer no longer reduces cooldown of conjure weapon abilities
• Stoneshift (PVP) - reduced Tectonic shift from 2s to 1s

 

Not sure about this part, I see major problems especially with burning speed, since the firewall and the explosion can be combined in a very good way to deal some decent dps.

Lightning flash was simply necessary because the skill is by far weaker than other class counter parts such as shift signet, however, it is still far inferior in terms of range and condi removal.

Soothing disruption will need a buff instead, because then, it is the weakest trait on master tier for elementalist in water.

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Weaver/Tempest changes

• Lucid Singularity (aka alac trait)  pulses alac in addition to the end alac , total alac unchanged

• Superior elements (PVE) crit chance from 10% to 15%
• Bunch of coefficient increases on weaver in PVE
  • Cauterizing Strike: Increased power coefficient against burning enemies from 2.33 to 2.8 in PvE only.
  • Charged Strike: Increased power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.9 in PvE only.
  • Polaric Slash: Increased power coefficient from 0.9 to 1.0 in PvE only.
  • Call Lightning: Follow-up lightning strikes occur faster and will now always strike three times.
  • Polaric Leap: Increased power coefficient from 0.33 to 0.66 in PvE only.  --- double
  • Seiche: Increased power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.8 in PvE only. ---  yay
  • Clapotis: Increased power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.9 in PvE only. --- large increase for water
  • Breaking Wave: Increased power coefficient from 1.0 to 1.1 in PvE only.
  • Aqua Siphon: Increased base healing from 1,770 to 2,255 in PvE only.
  • Twin Strike: Increased power coefficient on initial strike from 0.5 to 1.0 in PvE only. --- double
  • Shearing Edge: Increased power coefficient from 1.5 to 1.8 in PvE only.
• Weave self now has strike damage boost

Catalyst

• Fortified earth (PVP) barrier from 2520 to 1254
• Elemental Celerity elite skill (PVP) from 60 to 75s cooldown
• Deploy Jade sphere PVP cooldown 10s to 15s (matches PVE)

 

 

First of all, it is very nice that the problematic applying of alac has finally been announced, I am just not sure if this really solves the huge issue of OL mechanic in general with having the highest casting time out of all classes (except for downstate 4 maybe) and also de-facto locking people out of attunement when used, which would be fine if the recast time only applies when the cast has gone through and not interrupted, because the drawbacks of disrupting OL are still far too high.

IMO it would be okay to put the cast time down to 2 seconds, which would solve a lot of OL problems at hand.

 

Sword gets buffed again, which is also a very good, because as melee weapon, sword weaver was de facto inferior to almost any other melee spec in terms of dps. 

We still have to see about the results later.

 

Overall, not a bad update, in the right direction, but more changes are certainly necessary.

[Pseudonymous.2107]

7 hours ago, Joswi.2635 said:

From the sounds of it on the actual post, it only stops on your target. So no target or hitting anything other than your target and you'll still pass through. I think it's a nice change to make sure you hit your target and can't accidently overshoot your target

This is only true for some 1v1 scenarios or pve. If you run through another friendly target I can no longer hit you, and if I play d/d aurashare in WvW i wont be able to jump back to the commander or through aoe zones because i will hit someone.

[Pseudonymous.2107]

5 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Kinda mixed feelings about burning speed & earthen rush. Its amazing for instanced PvE content, but its annoying AF for WvW/pvp.

Maybe switch the skill only for PvE?

This is the way.

[Strider.7849]

Looking forward to the staff changes!

[zeyeti.8347]

Great , finally a viable source of alacrity , ty ! 

While the staff changes feel nice from a support perspective , how do you maintain might with staff only ? the fire overload is too tiny and too long for upkeeping that (remind it's a 180 aoe pulsing , other healer have that kind of thing on a 360 range ...) , i guess you will rely on combo fire fields ... will stick to warhorn for me (you need heat sync to upkeep might decently , or play paired with a quick herald i guess ), and the crappy dagger ... too bad they didnt change anything from dagger (except the hit stop on dash skills)

But definitely gonna try again weaver power fresh air !

Numberless ele is not to be complained much about on this patch , changes are great anyway , ty anet.

[Chyro.1462]

They were talking about the might situation and that they want to change how there's a few specs that can give 25 stacks and keep it up while others struggle to give any. Sounded like they intend to give group might to more classes while possibly tuning down the ones that can give tons of might - I assume warhorn will be eventually hit by that if they do go that direction. Which would further even the playing field between picking warhorn or the new staff. I do like when there's more options that differ the playstyle, without one being strictly better than the other.

[Faebe.7341]

good changes overall, wish they would still do more for tempest. traits, and warhorn could use more love, could put more dps in it to get it closer to weaver/catalyst, dps for tempest is kitten and healing still difficult when water is on cooldown, overload water is a problem, there are better alternatives around.

 

also for core ele they should finally address the elemental despawning when mounting, it takes 2minutes everytime to fully summon all of them again.. or completly overhaul the skill. also hope that dagger and focus weapon skills get more love but would prioritize warhorn

[Bunny.9834]

It's frustrating that they're not reducing the CD for ALL Cantrips. 

First, Soothing Disruption is now useless. 

Second, they're suppose to help the state of Cantrips with this patch but instead they will make it even less desirable by gutting the trait that makes them semi-viable. 

Lightning Flash is 900 range and not a stunbreak and its damage is laughable. Compared to Blink. This should be a 24s CD. 

Why is Armor of Earth's CD reduction only for PvP? What about WvW?   

Edited February 4, 2023 by Bunny.9834

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Bunny.9834 said:

It's frustrating that they're not reducing the CD for ALL Cantrips. 

First, Soothing Disruption is now useless. 

Second, they're suppose to help the state of Cantrips with this patch but instead they will make it even less desirable by gutting the trait that makes them semi-viable. 

Lightning Flash is 900 range and not a stunbreak and its damage is laughable. Compared to Blink. This should be a 24s CD. 

Why is Armor of Earth's CD reduction only for PvP? What about WvW?   

The balances splits are super odd in this update maybe it takes too much time to do them?

LF being 20 sec in pve is cool but kind of pointless having LF in wvw or spvp at 35 sec is way too long. Even the dagger 3 earth and fire skills seems out of place for any thing but pve. Being able to burning speed just behind some one is very important to out flanking them in an pvp fight same with earth rush.

Even the lost of conja wepon cdr is kind of a big hit to spvp / wvw more so then in pve as you tend to keep the conja weapons a bit longer in pvp but thow them away in pve for dps rotation.

They buffs weaver sword in pve only yet it needs it badly in spvp / wvw!

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

1 hour ago, Bunny.9834 said:

Lightning Flash is 900 range and not a stunbreak and its damage is laughable. Compared to Blink. This should be a 24s CD. 

 

Meanwhile, shift signet is 1.200 range, got stunbreak as well, removes 2 conditions on use, and has a 25 seconds cd, and gives 25% movement bonus passively when not activated.

 

Talking about perfectly balanced classes...

[Guybrush.4762]

Hello fellow elementalists, here are my humble thoughts on the patch preview :
 

1. Dagger changes (Burning speed and Earthen rush). Overall I like this change quite a lot but the implementation puzzle me, let me explain. It makes dagger zoomies way more usable in PvE where falling hazard is a thing. That is huge for Hybrid Alacrity Tempest! It looks way more enjoyable in the future. For sPvP and WvW having more control over your movement is always good. And now the bad part of this change... clumsiness! If I understood correctly, you still dash forward in the direction your toon is facing except now you stop if your target cross your trajectory. That could lead to a lot of mishap where people feel they would rush toward their target - after all they have targeted something - but their facing end up a bit off and they dash out of position as a result. I think a better implementation would be to have a "skill shot" type of targeting like Fiery Greatsword skill 3 - Fiery whirl. Also, one thing that may be worth considering is that dashing at point blank range would shorten the cast time (I imagine) and therefor both increase the dps and decrease the evade duration which is great in PvE for my buddy the Hybrid alac tempest and its below average dps but could also lead to a more bursty Burning speed in sPvP and WvW.
    
2. Scepter changes. The change is aimed at Catalyst and I don't really play the spec nearly enough to have a solid opinion on the mater. Nerfing a core weapon is a bit scary and I am a worried that Scepter Fresh air weaver got caught in the blast.
    
3. Staff change. This set of changes is actually quite interesting! The live version of staff is already low key decent from a support perspective in sPvP and WvW. I am pretty sure Staff is now the de facto weapon of choice if your zerg lack stability and I am positively curious to try Staff and see how it performs especially on pirate ship scenario (it was decent before now it might be great). It heals more, it cleanses 5 more condition every 30-ish seconds, it have superspeed, it retain the goodies it had like CC and mobility... yeah it is great for a support! But as a bonus it is also impactful for power Staff Catalyst and Weaver (especially with Unravel instead of Glyph of Storm). I think it will remain an hidden gem until the other zerg dps build are nerfed and people are looking for a replacement but realistically, the build now compares better to other dps build in WvW zerg which is nice.
    
4. Conjurer nerf. I am afraid the trait is no longer viable outside of niche cases. Gaining a fire aura every 30 to 60 sec is just not that strong. Also, usually when a trait lowering cooldown got simplified their is a fallow up list of almost every previously affected skill with lower cooldown. However, unless I have missed it, it is just a straight nerf this time. Weirdly enough it will most likely does not affect anything but sPvP and WvW as using conjured weapon tend to be 1 to 3 skill only in PvE.
    
5. Soothing disruption and Cantrip adjustment. In instanced PvE Cantrips have little to no attractiveness and the proposed changes does nothing to address that. In instanced PvE non-healer Elementalis rely on their utility skill to deal damage, replacing aid utilities comes at a great damage cost. The harsh reality is that any Elementalist utility that does not deal competitive damage will probably be forgotten in PvE unless they are super broken for other reason (which create its own set of issue). Weirdly enough a 20 second Lightning flash actually deals decent power damage in PvE. I remember a time when Arcane blast was used and if my math is to be trsuted the damage is fairly similar. The rest probably missed the mark for PvE though. In sPvP and WvW some Cantrip are used but ironically the one that were used with Soothing disruption remained untouched except Ether renewal which is now better than ever (and probably too good ?). As for Armor of Earth, I am using it on my WvW Heal tempest to provide my own stability when my subgroup does not have an HFB but now that there is stability on staff I will probably switch to staff instead and call it a day ; I may try replacing Earth shield with Armor of Earth on some of my build though. Cleansing fire does not look terrible for sPvP and WvW but there is probably better utility. I'd say overall you missed the mark on Cantrip.
    
6. Lucid singularity pulsing Alacrity. Yes please! This is a nice quality of life improvement for your fellow Alacrity Tempest not to mention an incredible help for newer player. If I am being picky I guess it is a also very minor nerf as well for when you are kiting some sort of mechanic far away from the group (for example flak kiting on Sabetha). Basically in the current version of the game, you carefully manage your movement and only stepping back and forth at 600 range of your group as the overload is going to finish. It requires precise timing and Druid is probably better suited for the job but it was doable and now it will be harder. But quite frankly it is not a huge loss and overall this is a good change in my opinion.
    
7. Power weaver and Weave Self changes. The PvE power buff on Sword is a bit scary as the build currently sit at a very respectable dps but I guess the same pain point about the build lacking utility for the group remain. Paradoxically in PvE the Weave self power damage buff would probably affect condition build more than power simply because power needs to beat Fiery greatsword while condition already use Weave self. I guess the re-emergence of an Hybrid sword weaver is possibility and I would welcome it. For sPvP and WvW I guess it may be a valid compensation for Scepter nerf and Conjurer nerf but once again : will it beats Fiery greatsword (and the mobility that comes with it).
    
8. Catalyst changes. I am still not playing Catalyst in PvP nearly enough to have a solid opinion on the matter. It looks reasonable I guess though I am worried about non-scepter Catalyst.

Oh, it looks like you have made it to the bottom of this post. Here, take a cookie and have a wonderful day! 😊🍪

Edited February 5, 2023 by Guybrush.4762

[Noodle Ant.1605]

i thought i wouldve seen more talk about what the staff changes meant for heal cata in pve, which the upcoming changes play far better on compared to healtemp, but ok i guess. if one wants to play staff on heal temp but is concerned about might application, then on top of blasting fire fields fire elementals (both lesser and elite) stack might in 360 radius and theres pyromancers puissance for the truly desperate (is at least 240 radius vs 180 from overload)

pve power (sword) weaver buffs seem a bit misguided as the build itself really isnt that hard to pump out damage on, its just squishy and relies a lot on external support in order to do so (just camping fire/air almost outputs as much as power reaper or something like that). it wouldve made more sense to push players to take masters fortitude instead of superior elements, and the change to weave self to affect power imo will only serve to make it seem more complicated when it doesnt need to be. ignoring the top end players who will definitely capitalise on these buffs, i dont think this really helps players much on the lower end at all, maybe apart from the water buffs

[bluberblasen.9684]

Sorry I say the same things over and over again.

Don't forget cantrips in WvW especially

* lightning flash

- give it 1200 or reduced cooldown or stun break (again) or very high damage or 2 ammo or other useful things.

 

* don't nerf scepter ( elem) in WvW because of pvp reasons.. It is not op in WvW and was strong like other strong roaming classes.

 

 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Hybrid/grieving weaver could be interesting with a low skill floor and decent dps.

[Jeddite.8620]

dps tempest is at moment the only spec that uses cantrips atm. its not a great build, but its fun to play from time to time.

with the cantrips nerfs you will have "mist form" and "armor of earth" with coolddown from 60s in wvw.

 

thx for deleting another ele build

[Infinity.2876]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:12 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Weave self now has strike damage boost

It's about time

 

On 2/3/2023 at 12:12 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Healing rain - heals allies for each condition removed , increased conditions removed per pulse to 2 in PVE

yay

 

On 2/3/2023 at 12:12 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Water Blast - ally targetting

Gust - ground target

should have happened a long time ago.

Nice typo

 

Heal tempest is officially considered viable.

Weaver buffs look halfhearted and will probably not help it enough.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Infinity.2876

[Joswi.2635]

On 2/4/2023 at 2:29 AM, Pseudonymous.2107 said:

This is only true for some 1v1 scenarios or pve. If you run through another friendly target I can no longer hit you, and if I play d/d aurashare in WvW i wont be able to jump back to the commander or through aoe zones because i will hit someone.

I guess we'll have to see how it plays but looking at the description it seems you can still pass through enemies as long as it's not the one you currently have targeted so I don't think either of those examples would actually stop you earlier than you were planning. But again, have to see how it actually functions in game

[Edu.6984]

Lightning flash needs a reduction on CD. Remove the dmg if needed, but make it a stun break.

 

Armor of earth needs to have its cd reduced in wvw  too. 

[Einlanzer.1627]

Most of these are okay, but they missed the biggest change that staff needs - its autoattacks other than fire need to be beefed up.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Einlanzer.1627

[RandomNPC.8714]

My opinions to the changes to Core Elementalist:

 

Quote

Burning Speed: This skill will now stop moving when it reaches the targeted enemy if one exists.

Earthen Rush: This skill will now stop moving when it reaches the targeted enemy if one exists.

not a fan. I rather we keep the mobility and the chaotic aspect of this weapon, especially since the targeting system is bugged for years for many people and keep selecting foes/allies at random all the time.

Quote

Soothing Disruption: This trait no longer reduces the cooldown of cantrips.

Conjurer: This trait no longer reduces the cooldown of conjured-weapon abilities.

Soothing Disruption is back to 2012 eh? Both traits are useless now. Personally I think the crusade against recharge-reducing traits is a mistake.

Quote

Lightning Flash: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.

(and still 35 sec in PvP or WvW). I think this is the wrong move, if you remove the cooldown trait make it 32 sec across the board. We don't need 20 sec in PvE, this is too much. Rather, I would nerf the teleports from other classes (blink for Mesmer for example) to have more reasonable, longer cooldowns.

Quote

Cleansing Fire: This skill is now an ammunition skill and grants the caster might for each condition it removes. Ammunition recharge time is 25 seconds.

I am ok with the cooldown and the might. The charges, I don't know, how many are they, only two I hope? Will it still cleanse up to five conditions in PvE, isn't that a bit too much?

Quote

Armor of Earth: This skill now grants barrier for each unique boon on the user in addition to its other effects. Reduced duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only. Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only.

I would make it 40 seconds recharge in all game modes.

Quote

Ether Renewal: Reduced casting time from 2.75 seconds to 2.25 seconds. Reduced cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds.

Ok with the cooldown, never used that skill too much so I don't know for the casting time.

 

Where are the cooldown reductions for Tornado/Whirlpool, Mist Form, and all Conjured Weapons?! 

 

Quote

• Flame Burst: This skill now inflicts blind in addition to burning.
• Burning Retreat: Reduced cooldown from 20 seconds to 18 seconds.
• Water Blast: This skill can now target allies.
• Geyser: Increased heal attribute scaling from 1.0 to 1.25 in PvP and WvW.
• Frozen Ground: This skill now grants frost aura to allies in the area when the field is created.
• Healing Rain: This skill now heals allies for each condition removed. Increased conditions removed per pulse from 1 to 2 in PvE only.
• Gust: This skill is now ground-targetable.
• Windborne Speed: This skill now grants superspeed in addition to its other effects.
• Transmute Earth: This skill now grants stability instead of protection. Increased boon-application radius from 240 to 600.

I've open a topic for the Frozen Ground change. Apart from that, overall yeah why not, nice buffs. Will have to test it to see if I like the Gust change or not, but I am not too worried. Still waiting a damage buff to Water Blast.