Here is a very fun Vindi build for PvE

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

42 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

 I agree, meta builds only really shine in meta team comps.

This is so ridiculously untrue it's insane. Most meta builds are better outside of meta comps than builds like this and/or can be tweaked with a trait adjustment or two to be highly self-sufficient without losing much of what makes them meta. Comments like these show low knowledge of the reality of the strength of meta builds and how easy it is to tweak those builds to make them solo sufficient

This build is fine for OW, sure, but I personally wouldn't want anyone to run it in my groups for fracs/strikes/raids. Not because the build can't clear that content (it can), but because it's so far from optimal for the role it's trying to fill. The issue with weird hybrid builds like this is that they don't fill any of the major requirements for a party. Vindicator's biggest issue as a hybrid is that it is just redundant in an actually well-built group (i.e., most instanced groups, even pugs (and no, providing 25 might/Prot/boon extension really isn't enough, it's still redundant with many, many other team comps))

 

Is it Playable? Certainly. Good outside of OW? No, not really, so I wouldn't classify it as "good for strikes/fracs," but as "passable" for those at best. But even that is kind of dangerous in that it gives newer players (which are the primary people that would be playing a build like this) false ideas about what is good or bad for instanced content, which can lead to bad confrontations with less agreeable players. Builds like this run under the assumption of being "good for fracs/strikes" kind of sets new players up to fail instead of giving them the tools to get better, which is a big disservice to those players imo

 

Edit: I am a big proponent of "play how you want" and "make your own groups," however, just to be clear so not knocking you playing the build in your own groups or with like-minded people. I do think it's important to acknowledge the reality that the build is far from optimal for instanced content (and certainly not "good" for it), that the larger community may not accept builds like these easily, and that in some ways it does set up newer players to fail

Edited February 26, 2023 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Obtena.7952]

22 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

This is so ridiculously untrue it's insane.

There is actually truth to that ... Meta builds only actually shine with players who are most capable to play them in the correct content. The idea of meta is completely irrelevant to many people because they aren't capable enough to benefit from it or in the worst case, perform so badly with it, they would be BETTER off playing an off-meta build they are comfortable with.  

So once we recognize that we don't NEED to continually talk about the top players that want and ARE capable of running these meta builds for optimal content completion ... then we get to HERE, with threads that talk about the merits of non-meta builds that DO have value to LOTS of people in group content who aren't interested or not capable of playing optimal builds and comps. 

EDIT: Funny people keep trying to 'clarify' to the OP the build isn't optimal for group content ... the OP made no such claim to begin with. What I DO see is a bunch of people 'asking' the OP to never run this in group content because those people have an agenda to push the idea that non-meta builds are "bad" ... the typical rhetoric. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Waffles.5632]

52 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

This is so ridiculously untrue it's insane. Most meta builds are better outside of meta comps than builds like this and/or can be tweaked with a trait adjustment or two to be highly self-sufficient without losing much of what makes them meta.

This build is fine for OW, sure, but I personally wouldn't want anyone to run it in my groups for fracs/strikes/raids. Not because the build can't clear that content (it can), but because it's so far from optimal for the role it's trying to fill. The issue with weird hybrid builds like this is that they don't fill any of the major requirements for a party. Vindicator's biggest issue as a hybrid is that it is just redundant in an actually well-built group (i.e., most instanced groups, even pugs (and no, providing 25 might/Prot/boon extension really isn't enough, it's still redundant with many, many other team comps))

 

Is it Playable? Certainly. Good outside of OW? No, not really, so I wouldn't classify it as "good for strikes/fracs," but as "passable" for those at best. But even that is kind of dangerous in that it gives newer players (which are the primary people that would be playing a build like this) false ideas about what is good or bad for instanced content, which can lead to bad confrontations with less agreeable players. Builds like this run under the assumption of being "good for fracs/strikes" kind of sets new players up to fail instead of giving them the tools to get better, which is a big disservice to those players imo

I can't anymore lmfao. Everything has already been addressed and if you can't infer simple things, that's a l2r issue. Spamming confused emoji faces on all my posts won't change anything.

I will keep doing what I've been doing, because it's been working out great. The entitlement some people have to try and dictate what and how other people can play. Just astounding.

Like @Obtena.7952 said, several people now have come out in this thread and explicitly stated they would kick this build, or would deny this build in their group even though this build has already passed several metrics of what makes a build good or not. It already works but won't even be given a chance.

That is elitism right there, plain as day, for all to see.

Edit: Also in no world is x25 might/perma prot/vigor for five people redundant. You lost any credibility there because you're just outright dismissing what the build was designed for. Boons are redundant now I guess, like come on lol what even is this.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Waffles.5632]

 

Glad I remembered this. CASE IN POINT.

This was back in sept of 2022, so vindi one dodge, and I was using half cele/fireworks runes/death drop.

You can say we did terrible, you can say we weren't optimal, you can say we sucked, and didn't play strictly meta, etc.

THE FACT REMAINS: WE GOT IT DONE WHILE HAVING FUN and that is worth more than any meta group to me.

I do stuff like this all the time.

This was all PUG too. I didn't specify roles, I just asked people what they wanted to play and then worked with what I got. My friend needed an achieve for boneskinner but didn't do strikes that much. These are the players I'm interested in.

If you're the type of player who has all the meta classes, and can swap on a whim, and can play those classes, and you know all the optimal rotations etc, and you love pushing for that perfect raid fight where you do 75k dps, realize that is not how most people play!

Most people play for fun first, and they generally want to succeed in as much content as possible while on the same class or same build. They don't like having to swap every other strike for scourge, then druid, then vindi or whatever is meta. They don't like being bound to a super specific rotation for "max dps" or a specific gear choice because again "max dps". I can't tell you how many times, even in this thread, people say "just go scholar it's the most dps" like what even is that LOL.

For most people, they just want to play the game. This build lets them do exactly that without too much worry.

 

Finally, meta isn't even bad. I have nothing against meta, or snowcrows. I used to raid in much harder games so I know what it's like.

I DO have everything against players who are so closed minded though that they can only see meta and nothing else. Everything outside meta is deemed "terrible" or "not optimal" and is then kicked w/o a second thought. THAT is what is most damaging to new players, not my build LOL.

 

And since I now know 100% some people in here don't read, here is the video description:

Quote

Just wanted to share my experience with commanding PUG's, while also testing/showing my Vindicator build for it. I have PUG Commanded every strike as Mirage, Firebrand, and now Vindicator. Out of those 3 I would say Vindi is most fun, Firebrand is most potent, and Mirage is most relaxed.

Again, I put the important part in bold.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Virtuality.8351]

Another thread on open world builds derailed by instanced content optimization nazis. People just never get tired of this huh?

Not saying optimization advices are inherently bad, but it really is the business between OP and their party mates. They can negotiate and figure it out themselves. Instead of whacking your e-peen around and venting your frustration of some bad comp you recently had, how about provide some optimization advice that is actually constructive for open world scenario instead?

LIke, OP if you've got a spare Greatsword, try Sigil of Energy with Celerity. It could provide more consistent Quickness coverage in boss fights with no adds, where Sigil of Stamina hardly comes in to effect. Especially helpful when you are in Dwarf stance, with no other source of Quickness than the duration extension effect from Vassals of Empires.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Virtuality.8351

[Waffles.5632]

7 minutes ago, Virtuality.8351 said:

LIke, OP if you've got a spare Greatsword, try Sigil of Energy with Celerity. It could provide more consistent Quickness coverage in boss fights with no adds, where Stamina hardly come in to effect. Especially helpful when you are in Dwarf stance with no other source of Quickness than the duration extension effect from Vassals of Empires.

Wow I actually never thought of this so ty! I might do just that. Usually I've been running hammer for ranged but I've found I just never really need it, so I never swap to it. Having a 2nd greatsword or even sword/sword with a celerity rune would do wonders I feel.

Kuz you're right, I never felt happy about sigil of stamina on bosses due to it needing kills to work. Your suggestion sounds like a really good solution to that small problem!

Thank you again! Gonna be trying this out.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Virtuality.8351]

Glad you like the idea. Cheers!

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Kuz you're right, I never felt happy about sigil of stamina on bosses due to it needing kills to work. Your suggestion sounds like a really good solution to that small problem!

Personally, I prefer Stamina Sigil on Hammer (instead of GS), just to make up for Hammer's lack of point blank AoE damage skills, which is a con when it comes to mob farming. (Hammer is my default mob farm set.)

With this set up I can tag mobs far away with Hammer skills, while still able to tag mobs within melee range with my dodge attack pretty effectively.

And also thank you for your post. It gives me quite some ideas how I might put together my build in a different way.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Virtuality.8351

[Nephalem.8921]

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I will keep doing what I've been doing, because it's been working out great. The entitlement some people have to try and dictate what and how other people can play. Just astounding.

Because as soon as you enter group content it is not about you anymore. Did everyone in your group have fun? Even the ones expecting normal pug strikes?

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Like @Obtena.7952 said, several people now have come out in this thread and explicitly stated they would kick this build, or would deny this build in their group even though this build has already passed several metrics of what makes a build good or not. It already works but won't even be given a chance.

That is elitism right there, plain as day, for all to see.

Obtena agreeing with you should be a hint. It is not a good thing.

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Edit: Also in no world is x25 might/perma prot/vigor for five people redundant. You lost any credibility there because you're just outright dismissing what the build was designed for. Boons are redundant now I guess, like come on lol what even is this.

Yes those boons are redundant in group settings with subgroups and if not there are much better ways to get them than throwing away a big chunk of your damage. In your kill below you have 2 druids and 2 scourges. Like i wrote earlier in a solo setting you could just run an invo trait and/or strength sigil. But not sure if you know what subgroups do. You could also install a tool to see how your build actually performs compared to everyone in your group. heals included.

Most bosskills like these are not group efforts. more like 2-4 player efforts.

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

 

Glad I remembered this. CASE IN POINT.

This was back in sept of 2022, so vindi one dodge, and I was using half cele/fireworks runes/death drop.

You can say we did terrible, you can say we weren't optimal, you can say we sucked, and didn't play strictly meta, etc.

THE FACT REMAINS: WE GOT IT DONE WHILE HAVING FUN and that is worth more than any meta group to me.

I do stuff like this all the time.

This was all PUG too. I didn't specify roles, I just asked people what they wanted to play and then worked with what I got. My friend needed an achieve for boneskinner but didn't do strikes that much. These are the players I'm interested in.

If you're the type of player who has all the meta classes, and can swap on a whim, and can play those classes, and you know all the optimal rotations etc, and you love pushing for that perfect raid fight where you do 75k dps, realize that is not how most people play!

Most people play for fun first, and they generally want to succeed in as much content as possible while on the same class or same build. They don't like having to swap every other strike for scourge, then druid, then vindi or whatever is meta. They don't like being bound to a super specific rotation for "max dps" or a specific gear choice because again "max dps". I can't tell you how many times, even in this thread, people say "just go scholar it's the most dps" like what even is that LOL.

For most people, they just want to play the game. This build lets them do exactly that without too much worry.

 

Finally, meta isn't even bad. I have nothing against meta, or snowcrows. I used to raid in much harder games so I know what it's like.

I DO have everything against players who are so closed minded though that they can only see meta and nothing else. Everything outside meta is deemed "terrible" or "not optimal" and is then kicked w/o a second thought. THAT is what is most damaging to new players, not my build LOL.

"Everything outside meta is deemed "terrible" or "not optimal"

There is a difference between not optimal and wasting 30-70% damage for no reason. Marauder is not optimal. Cele vindi without death drop is just bad.

Yes i found logs of your runs on a 3rd party website. No subgroups. Everyone in one group just like in that video. No roles either. You basically gave quite a lot of reasons why most of the game has to be so easy and why DE still fails sometimes. The devs tried so hard in eod to explain the combat system better. At least i understand the person complaining about ko taking 30-40min in general better now.

 

 

[soul.9651]

12 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Ok lets look at numbers:

Your build: https://optimizer.discretize.eu/build/?m=raids&v=2&data=XQAAAAKyAAAAAAAAAABuAACjvLVE6Wmg81NIQBNL4yMox6gV4488AP8nWLSYg4r_YQ2uxprdaPQ75YpCZB3019Lprzrpi5wlGPy1amT7Yz5G7-KWCB0XHUq3fZmjOdhnPgTl0MKVwjjUuPFstSh6dwoka1r9QijmXrdr42kIKtmhrI-cSKDmSMt0AiGy4YeLc7WGeS4-FYlonc-rmXI_5KAREuMxmJ2rOnqB3ZnK_-_h-AA

Optimiser expected dps: 23651

Normal dps build without impact: 37028 in optimiser

So your build does 63.9% of the normal dps version just with taking a few cele pieces and the 2 different traits. Or in other words you could do at least 57% more if you use the normal build. In real world this difference is much bigger because the optimiser does not calculate dmg loss from losing death drop. It only calculates the raw stat difference from mods and gear. It would be closer to 65-70%.

It is fine if you use it in open world events except DE but do not bring this into group content and if you do expect to get kicked unless you are the commander and can not get kicked like the op.

DE is so overnerfed and free that teapot literaly killed it with 50 healers.... As long as you have your monitor on, that fight is a joke with any build, the only reason it can fail is beeing afk or not hitting the boss.. cc shouldnt be the problem either since EMP exists, and if they cant press only ONE button for that its not the builds fault, its the person beeing to lazy to play the game. Hell de even was killed with a 50 reapers who didnt even have a serious builds.. it was a random open world build which on golem does like 5k dps,the only boon that build had was self quickness, so again, DE meta is a joke... And about instanced content it would be relevant what build you are running only in cms and raids.

Edited February 26, 2023 by soul.9651

[Buran.3796]

9 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

This is so ridiculously untrue it's insane. Most meta builds are better outside of meta comps than builds like this and/or can be tweaked with a trait adjustment or two to be highly self-sufficient without losing much of what makes them meta. Comments like these show low knowledge of the reality of the strength of meta builds and how easy it is to tweak those builds to make them solo sufficient

   I can't agree with your take (outside that you're fair demanding the builds you want in any team you form at instanced content, not like I would ever walk in, anyway).

   First of all, IF prioritizing performance is a must, the first thing you should do as a dps player is to ditch Vindicator, due is currently 5-6k below the top dogs. According to your own logic, there's no reason to leave a 10-12% on the table running a Vindi, when a Virtuoso or a Weaver is available. There's also better choices for hybrid support than Herald or Renegade, so the advice to new players trying the class would be keep away from Rev until somehow becames the best in slot again (which could take some years).

   Second, facts speak louder than words, and I would have to see videos of those meta builds soloing bounties to believe that they work better in OW. Sometimes Roul does that, but oftenly I find out the opposite, like that his glass cannon Willbender was slower at killing the Legendary Facet than Hizen's trailblazer Renegade.                      

11 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Outside of bounty solos all of this is wrong. Jadebot protocols supply you with all the boons and people have soloed fractals and champions in full glass for a long time now even if Hizen tries very hard to convince the casuals that you need 50 sources of passive damage mitigations at all times.

  Being able to solo bounties and large meta events with plenty of room for errors and self sustain is the selling point of those kind of builds, specially for newcomers which aren't used to the game mechanics or lack the skill to perform long and complex rotatiions while reacting in real time to what those monsters are doing..

   You known what's the most funny think about listening to Teapot, Nike and Sneb cosntantly moaning day after day after day  about how players refuse to run meta builds or learn to play? Is that people are chill completing the map, or farming or doing wathever and then those "leaders" implore them to join instanced content, where they discover that "oh, but here you have to run this build, use this gear and food, do this mechanic..." and then most of them say "Oh well, I play to have fun and I don't have fun doing that so bye, I don't need you anyway"...  And then those hardcore players rant for hours about the "casuals" while keep begging for new players to join instanced content. Talking about cognitive disonance...

Edited February 26, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Waffles.5632]

3 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

You known what's the most funny think about listening to Teapot, Nike and Sneb cosntantly moaning day after day after day  about how players refuse to run meta builds or learn to play? Is that people are chill completing the map, or farming or doing wathever and then those "leaders" implore them to join instanced content, where they discover that "oh, but here you have to run this build, use this gear and food, do this mechanic..." and then most of them say "Oh well, I play to have fun and I don't have fun doing that so bye, I don't need you anyway"...  And then those hardcore players rant for hours about the "casuals" while keep begging for new players to join instanced content. Talking about cognitive disonance...

 

Ty because I agree with this so much. This is what most players mean when they say they hate fracs and raids. Immediately they're met with "your build isn't meta, anything works in OW, you're terrible, play this build only now, eat this food, do this exact rotation, or else we kick"

Then those same frac/raid players complain how nobody wants to raid or do fracs, but they can't even be honest like you said. They have to make up issues like "Casuals just don't want to do hard content" or "Casuals just don't want to win" and it's like nah bro, casuals just don't want to deal with uptight elitism that never compromises because "meta", like give people a chance and time to adjust at least before demanding specific builds on them.

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I can't agree with your take (outside that you're fair demanding the builds you want in any team you form at instanced content, not like I would ever walk in, anyway).

   First of all, IF prioritizing performance is a must, the first thing you should do as a dps player is to ditch Vindicator, due is currently 5-6k below the top dogs. According to your own logic, there's no reason to leave a 10-12% on the table running a Vindi, when a Virtuoso or a Weaver is available. There's also better choices for hybrid support than Herald or Renegade, so the advice to new players trying the class would be keep away from Rev until somehow becames the best in slot again (which could take some years).

   Second, facts speak louder than words, and I would have to see videos of those meta builds soloing bounties to believe that they work better in OW. Sometimes Roul does that, but oftenly I find out the opposite, like that his glass cannon Willbender was slower at killing the Legendary Facet than Hizen's trailblazer Renegade.                      

  Being able to solo bounties and large meta events with plenty of room for errors and self sustain is the selling point of those kind of builds, specially for newcomers which aren't used to the game mechanics or lack the skill to perform long and complex rotatiions while reacting in real time to what those monsters are doing..

   You known what's the most funny think about listening to Teapot, Nike and Sneb cosntantly moaning day after day after day  about how players refuse to run meta builds or learn to play? Is that people are chill completing the map, or farming or doing wathever and then those "leaders" implore them to join instanced content, where they discover that "oh, but here you have to run this build, use this gear and food, do this mechanic..." and then most of them say "Oh well, I play to have fun and I don't have fun doing that so bye, I don't need you anyway"...  And then those hardcore players rant for hours about the "casuals" while keep begging for new players to join instanced content. Talking about cognitive disonance...

Teapot, Nike, and Sneb have no objection to people running builds designed for open world solo play in that context. Nike even had a video series devoted to such builds similar to Hizen, although he hasn't added much to that since EoD launched that I've seen.

They probably wouldn't object to taking more survivable builds into untimed fractals and strikes either. I think they've all expressed variations of the concept that when you're learning a fight that doesn't feature a DPS check, it's better to give yourself some margin for error and get the kill than to optimise fully for max DPS and risk a wipe. To the point where Teapot in particular often takes flak from the DPS optimisers for promoting builds that result in slower but more comfortable kills.

Edited February 26, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Anonynja.3172]

21 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Yeah I want more stat choices as well. Ultimately I'd just like to choose my own stats tbh, instead of pre-determined stat choices.

This has been my complaint with GW2's gearing system since launch, but it tends to fall on deaf ears. In GW1 you directly chose "attributes" and could modify them only slightly with your gear. Don't think I've seen any other RPGs that lock you into stat spreads so rigidly like GW2. You can mix and match stats per piece, but that's a very weird way to choose your spread.

[Aeolus.3615]

TDLR: If not playing a build with top DPS and spam and low effort rotation build player should listen to 133t lamers cause they are the ones playing the game well like LamerNet wants...

Not every player is a raid lamer or a zerg chicken.

Anet should reduce the efiency of meta build so every one should play without idiotic elitisms...(i know they wont do it cause game has nothing to offer besides it)

Edited February 26, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Buran.3796]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Teapot, Nike, and Sneb have no objection to people running builds designed for open world solo play in that context. Nike even had a video series devoted to such builds similar to Hizen, although he hasn't added much to that since EoD launched that I've seen.

   Some weeks ago I tried Nike's Defense Hammer build for PvE (albeit was portrayed as a build for instanced PvE and not OW) doing a HoT hero points solo run. Yes, the damage was amazing and seing axe #5 stacking 60-80k felt great... but 25% of the Champions mauled me. Sure, can be argued that in part was due I wasn't used to the mechanics of the build, but that's exactly my point: good OW builds are the ones which are easy to pick for anyone, offer versatility and re-sustain to mitigate mistakes.

   Meanwhile this afternoon I was completing the Dragonfall map with a rebooted character (a condi Vindi); I casually ran into The Arbiter of the Dead. Soloed that kitten in a cuple of minutes: try to do the same with the "meta" builds for raids...

Edited February 26, 2023 by Buran.3796

[soul.9651]

24 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

TDLR: If not playing a build with top DPS and spam and low effort rotation build player should listen to 133t lamers cause they are the ones playing the game well like LamerNet wants...

Not every player is a raid lamer or a zerg chicken.

Anet should reduce the efiency of meta build so every one should play without idiotic elitisms...(i know they wont do it cause game has nothing to offer besides it)

Idk i think besides solo open world content these kinds of builds need a new place where they would shine, new solo type of instanced content like fractals, and hey some people can say "just go solo fractals then 4Head" but then give us 5x more rewards if we are doing  5 man work there.. i mean people who raid just dont take open world seriously, but if there would be a solo content with the dificulty of raid or strike cms those people would change their mind about soloing builds, but i guess its just me dreaming about that kind of content which will never happen. Would be fun tho

[Aeolus.3615]

12 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Idk i think besides solo open world content these kinds of builds need a new place where they would shine, new solo type of instanced content like fractals, and hey some people can say "just go solo fractals then 4Head" but then give us 5x more rewards if we are doing  5 man work there.. i mean people who raid just dont take open world seriously, but if there would be a solo content with the dificulty of raid or strike cms those people would change their mind about soloing builds, but i guess its just me dreaming about that kind of content which will never happen. Would be fun tho

No one should take open world seriously in 1st place  but Anet sells it play how u want, but theres alot of game segregation due how game developers make the meta play this game by making it way to strong to segregate players that dont care about meta overperformance groups.

 

EDIT: i could see some builds workin on high dificulty gameplay, mobs with same HP but doing way more damage and faster response even clearing boons from players, maybe the resolution is increase gameplay difficulty in the option and those players would get togeher in same maps.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Buran.3796]

16 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Idk i think besides solo open world content these kinds of builds need a new place where they would shine, new solo type of instanced content like fractals, and hey some people can say "just go solo fractals then 4Head" but then give us 5x more rewards if we are doing  5 man work there.

  That place already exists and are the Bounties. Bounties are designed to be faced by 5+ players and some of therm (specially the legendary ones) are demanding as solo content. The problem is that ANet is so afraid of the "hypergrinders" (people devoted to play the same content for 8 hours, as happens in PoE or Diablo) that they botched the rewards. So you jump in group against a bounty and after two minutes you get maybe a yellow which sells for a few silvers, or you do it alone and then is worse because is 4-8 minutes for the same reward. Bounties could have been as amazing as in Monster Hunter or Elden Ring, but isntead ANet made them just though bosses with no rewards.

[Obtena.7952]

23 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

No one should take open world seriously in 1st place  but Anet sells it play how u want, but theres alot of game segregation due how game developers make the meta play this game by making it way to strong to segregate players that dont care about meta overperformance groups.

 

EDIT: i could see some builds workin on high dificulty gameplay, mobs with same HP but doing way more damage and faster response even clearing boons from players, maybe the resolution is increase gameplay difficulty in the option and those players would get togeher in same maps.

That doesn't make sense. Why should people not take OW seriously? Regardless of what you believe here, OW IS something Anet need to take seriously because that is the content that a significant number of players care about. 

There isn't any game segregation either. What we DO have is people that restrict who they play with based on their self-imposed requirements for team mates to play optimally ... specific to instanced content. That's a player-induced problem, not one resulting from the game. 

It's ironic you talk about the (non-existent) problem of the game creating segregation and literally in the SAME POST, you suggest a 'resolution' where players play in different maps to segregate based on difficulty. The ACTUAL solution is that people figure out how they want to play and do that with people who want to play with them, not to force some mindset about how the game should be played, dictated by players who decide things like "OW shouldn't be taken seriously". 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Mell.4873]

What a bunch of derailing, let waffles play his celestial builds. 

Celestials benefit all builds, Vindicator has both DPS and Healing skills, Power and Condition skills.  Whatever damage he loses will be made up by group support and not dying. 

 

I mean I bring all sort of stuff into end game instanced content that is low damage, clearing the content is key. You never need duper high DPS for this stuff. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Waffles.5632]

6 hours ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

This has been my complaint with GW2's gearing system since launch, but it tends to fall on deaf ears. In GW1 you directly chose "attributes" and could modify them only slightly with your gear. Don't think I've seen any other RPGs that lock you into stat spreads so rigidly like GW2. You can mix and match stats per piece, but that's a very weird way to choose your spread.

Exactly! GW2 is the first game that locks you into specific stat types and I just never saw the reason why. Maybe at launch it made more sense or something but idk.

 

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  That place already exists and are the Bounties. Bounties are designed to be faced by 5+ players and some of therm (specially the legendary ones) are demanding as solo content. The problem is that ANet is so afraid of the "hypergrinders" (people devoted to play the same content for 8 hours, as happens in PoE or Diablo) that they botched the rewards. So you jump in group against a bounty and after two minutes you get maybe a yellow which sells for a few silvers, or you do it alone and then is worse because is 4-8 minutes for the same reward. Bounties could have been as amazing as in Monster Hunter or Elden Ring, but isntead ANet made them just though bosses with no rewards.

I wiiiiiiish bounties were harder aka elden ring/monster hunter style. Some of them are close, like the legendary ones. I feel they're challenging enough, but even still, I want harder bounties.

More open world content is always welcomed by me. One of my favorite things is just tagging up and then clearing bounty boards with PUGs.

 

29 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

What a bunch of derailing, let waffles play his celestial builds. 

Celestial benifit all builds, Vindicator has both DPS and Healing skills, Power and Condition skills.  What ever damage he loses will be made up by group support and not dying. 

 

I mean I bring all sort of stuff into end game instanced content that islow damage, clearing the content is key. You never need duper high DPS for this stuff. 

They're afraid Mel... afraid of the Cele power!!! hahahaa 🤣

But for real, I would never suggest full cele in something like CM instances, or raids, however, even still, if you're entering new content, then play what makes you survive the longest, forget everything else.

Once you learn the fight, then specialize into one of the meta builds, if you're comfortable with it. It's all about negotiation and compromise. Kicking people because of builds, or telling people to just not play certain builds.... yeah I have no time for that noise.

I have cleared enough content now to realize that ultimately what works best for me is letting people play what's most comfortable for them, and trusting them with that decision. Also even if it fails, no big deal. You don't actually lose anything in gw2 anymore, not even armor needs to be repaired, and if you've had a fun experience then win or lose you haven't wasted your time either.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[draxynnic.3719]

14 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Some weeks ago I tried Nike's Defense Hammer build for PvE (albeit was portrayed as a build for instanced PvE and not OW) doing a HoT hero points solo run. Yes, the damage was amazing and seing axe #5 stacking 60-80k felt great... but 25% of the Champions mauled me. Sure, can be argued that in part was due I wasn't used to the mechanics of the build, but that's exactly my point: good OW builds are the ones which are easy to pick for anyone, offer versatility and re-sustain to mitigate mistakes.

   Meanwhile this afternoon I was completing the Dragonfall map with a rebooted character (a condi Vindi); I casually ran into The Arbiter of the Dead. Soloed that kitten in a cuple of minutes: try to do the same with the "meta" builds for raids...

Highlighted the important part there. He knows that meta group content builds are not necessarily the best for soloing difficult content. Warrior builds intended for that purpose usually feature Might Makes Right and generating as much Might as possible.

The point is that they actively push against the 'DPS is the only thing that matters' mentality.

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid being rude to other players. I've removed some posts

Regards.

[Ashford.8540]

On 2/25/2023 at 2:41 PM, Parpage.9867 said:

Or maybe that's because you are not making any sense at all? I guess that math is for toxic elitist but let me say it again even tho you will disregard it: it's fine for open world, you can go and have fun with whatever you want literally nobody is telling you otherwise, the problem lies when you also advertise it stating that "oh but it's also fine for fractals/strikes" because it's not lol

Except a vindicator isn't optimal to begin with, that's what a herald is for so your ""point"" is sorta moot, because guess what this type of gear on a herald looks like? wow switch a few weapons around and all of a sudden it can be a DPS support, now who cares snowcrow andies? This is why I like this type of build it's great for vin in open world pve, not terrible for beginners, and there is less time being annoyed when asking a vin to switch to Herald because it isn't going to be pure DPS

Edited February 28, 2023 by Ashford.8540

[Nephalem.8921]

On 2/27/2023 at 12:22 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

Exactly! GW2 is the first game that locks you into specific stat types and I just never saw the reason why. Maybe at launch it made more sense or something but idk.

The standard is to not have real choice at all. FF14 and wow allow you to chose between assassin and berserker for example. You can not even use tank gear on dps there.

On 2/27/2023 at 12:22 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

I wiiiiiiish bounties were harder aka elden ring/monster hunter style. Some of them are close, like the legendary ones. I feel they're challenging enough, but even still, I want harder bounties.

They exist. its just that they are inside controlled instances and not open world.

On 2/27/2023 at 12:22 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

More open world content is always welcomed by me. One of my favorite things is just tagging up and then clearing bounty boards with PUGs.

I like to do that too sometimes with 3-5 player teams since those can clear way faster than your usual zerg.