Rewards for repairs need to go

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

WvW Forums: We need more and better rewards! We're the lowest gold/hour endgame activity and it sucks.

Also WvW Forums: OMGWTF These noobs are trying to get their new rewards and how dare they do that.?!!?!?!

This is why the devs don't give us nice things in WvW.

 

If you have a complaint about people getting their shinnies I'm going to need you to do 2 things:

1. shut up
2. mind your own business

Maybe then we'll stop scaring the devs away from WvW development eh?

[Sleepwalker.1398]

57 minutes ago, xDumplinx.7983 said:

Good on you for putting up a fight!  Me personally, I take MAG week off, I'm playing the game to have fun, and being spawn camped and rolled over 50 v 1 isn't my definition of fun.

 

repairing walls is just as important as building siege, because all the defensive siege in the world won't stop the flood of players coming through the 5 broken walls that haven't been repaired.  Do you think players are wasting supplies because it means you have to run further to a camp to restock your own? Or are upset because these other players don't share your view of how WvW should be played, and will happily spend time repairing walls, earning rewards, while you are out swinging the pixel hammer round killing enemies? Or do you feel that you are unjustifiably being punished by earning less reward for doing the things you like in WvW?

 

Not trying to be rude or anything, but maybe you need to worry about how you play the game, and what your contribution is to the team. Others will play how they want, even if some of it is questionable or just downright crap, but it is their right to play the game mode how they see fit, not how you deem they should.... sounds a bit elitist to me. Maybe you should transfer to MAG?

Got a spare 1800 gems can send me for transfer when it becomes available? 😜

[babana.7521]

The only way to solve this repairing problem is to give reward correctly.  Everyone wants reward, and everyone want to play their game peacefully.

 

Wall needs to repair, sometime they don't need repair, they need to be repair at the correct timing,  and is in direct ratio to how many supply you have and how many supply are coming into your objective, if you have a squad coming to defend, etc etc.  If there are players who only come to WvW to get their shinies at the same time destroying the game for the other players, this wall repair reward system needs to be fix. 

 

how to reward wall repair

 

No Reward for
1) no reward on wall repair if the wall is above 50%  percent integrity.
2) no reward on wall repair if the supply is from the same objective. 
3) no reward if they stay in an objective doing one task which is repairing the wall. 

4) minus reward if they keep on repairing just to troll the supply

 

Reward if

1) a player is actively playing the game, defending the objective, engaged in fights when the attacker is attacking the objective, and they repair the wall to keep the enemy at bay. 

2) max reward if the supply is obtain from a camp 

3) 50% reward if the supply is obtain from nearby tower

4) max reward for repairing if they flip a camp and walk the dolyak to the objective that needs repairs. 

 

[Infusion.7149]

Repairing itself is not a problem. The seemingly random attribution of defense when you only kill players is. Killing siege such as rams or golems and getting WxP from it also not counted.

If Arenanet removed outer SMC repair defense credit (and keep only whatever minimal participation) it would largely solve most of the issues since it is the only place actively contested by trebs quite often.
 

(Context: over 12k pips since the rewards patch.)

Edited March 8, 2023 by Infusion.7149

[Riba.3271]

Reward updates always bring spike in playerbase as people not usually playing gamemode try it out, and this even brings some geared up veterans back since they can get free kills. They just aren't experienced or invested enough to do the minimum organisation, so it doesn't really improve WvW as a gamemode in the long run. You could give people free legendaries in every gamemode, but it doesn't really make the gameplay better. These short term spikes aren't really indicative of people having more fun or sticking around for longer.

What WvW needs is competitive balance, where attackers can whittle down defenses slowly, and defenders having to bring equal organisation to defend. Right now SM, tower and keep defending is mostly disorganised randoms utilizing the stats that cause them having to do at  ~15-20% less damage to kill enemies in addition to location advantage that makes them already twice as hard to finish. As someone pointed out, they did nerf interactive defenses after introducing previously mentioned unsavoury passive defender buff.

Thus most we see bunch of disorganised players fighting another bunch of disorganised players. GvGs are dead, dueling is dead, organised zerg fights are dead. Maybe there are couple of guilds and some weekend commanders that still attempt to organise something, but it is just remnants of a dead tribe. The game needs to provide stable environment where being invested is rewarded rather than fight outcomes being decided by map states and links. You literally need to go few steps back on open field and suddenly you need to deal 30%+ less damage to finish off enemy: Absolutely ridiculous system to be in any game, regardless of genre.

 

Competitive balancing first, rewards are secondary. So yes, they should remove repairing rewards if it promotes unproductive grindy gameplay from even couple of players on map: they don't matter at all.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Gehenna.3625]

23 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

WvW Forums: We need more and better rewards! We're the lowest gold/hour endgame activity and it sucks.

Also WvW Forums: OMGWTF These noobs are trying to get their new rewards and how dare they do that.?!!?!?!

Well the inherent problem with rewards, especially in WvW, is that there are always people finding an easy way to get them. Of course that's not what the people who wanted better rewards had in mind. And Anet seems to be unable to make it work all the way. But if this is the worst of it then I can live with that.

23 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

This is why the devs don't give us nice things in WvW.

That, of course, is bull kitten.

23 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If you have a complaint about people getting their shinnies I'm going to need you to do 2 things:

1. shut up
2. mind your own business

The problem in WvW is that the map size population is finite and a new map will not be opened. Those people take up space in essence. I don't blame them for playing the way they do but I'd rather they wouldn't show up because in the end it adds to the population imbalances. There are just servers that have a lot more of the afk/wall repair/leechers than other servers. So when that's the case it makes things harder for people who do want to play WvW for the WvW and not just the rewards just by them being there. A map can hold something like 60-70 players per side before it goes to queueing. If you have 15 of the afk/wall repair/leechers and the other side has only 5 then that's a population issue right there because they don't participate in WvW combat. 

If you've ever played WvW against two zergs of 30+ while your side can barely muster 1 of 30 and another of 20, while there is a queue, then you know what I'm talking about. But those problems existed before the new rewards so I don't blame the new rewards for this type of behavior.

And besides, I could say the same two things to you.

23 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Maybe then we'll stop scaring the devs away from WvW development eh?

I don't think the devs are that scared. That would give the forums a lot more power and credit than they deserve.

[babana.7521]

While this topic is open here, 

I want to add this, defending an objective, players don't get credit if they destroyed or killed siege/enemy before enemy  have a chance to hit the objective, why is that? But players who repair a wall gets a grandmaster marks and 2500 exp points for repairing walls @ keep that no one is hitting LOL.

[KeyOrion.9506]

On 3/4/2023 at 9:48 PM, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

It negatively affects fights in objectives. People don't build defensive siege, don't disable or at least try to kill some stragglers. All they do is waste supply repairing a wall/gate while it is being damaged. They don't contribute anything to the team. They're being 100% useless and it's always the same people that abuse this nonsense.

 

Note: I'm only talking about the players that knowingly abuse the reward system, not the players that repair when it actually makes sense.

 

Revert this kitten so people don't get rewarded for doing nothing.

 

Actually, if the location is coming under attack, you will have DEFENDERS, who will try to delay the enemy by repairing the wall/gate that is under attack.  That is a tactic.  That is strategy.  That is helping the team.  Now, this is also a Tactical/Strategic argument that has been ongoing since day 1 of Guildwars 2 launch of World vs. World.  I've had discussions with regular players, commanders, guild leaders, zerg drivers, whatever you want to call them.  And their opinions vary.  Some agree with you, some do not agree with you.  Now, you just believe anyone that repairs is only in it for rewards?  Really?  There couldn't be a player trying to hamper the enemy, by delaying them from getting inside a location?  That's not a possibility at all?

 

Here's the thing.  If you don't want repairs, then you don't need towers, Castles, or garrisons.  All you need is an open field, where no repairs can be made.  Now if that is the case, then you do not need Towers, Castles or Garrisons, then you do not need capture the flag mechanics.  On that note, you would not need World vs. World.  All you would need is Guild vs. Guild open field.  If that's what you want, then I highly suggest you petition Arenanet to make it so.

 

But don't go around believing that people that repair are useless, or are working against the team, or are just in it for "rewards".  It has actual strategic/tactical value during combat conditions.  There is always a reason why, not all of them so narrow as the one that you posted.

[Jitters.9401]

The only thing I dislike about people repairing is when I've gone outside, through the broken wall to take out an enemy, then go to blink back through to safety but the breach has been sealed.

 

Aaaand I die. 

Other than that go hard if you want to repair. 

 

There is a 74 hear old retired fellow that plays (actually probably 75 now) , who has a goal of reaching the God of War title.  He isn't the greatest fighter, but he tries, and he also repairs walls for exp. 

 

Let him have his fun. 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

They already removed participation from repairing. Which has it's drawbacks. If you also remove XP, then scouts are not going to stay behind in a heavily damaged keep to repair it. This already is a bit of an issue now the participation is removed because players who like to keep their pips going are not incentivized to stay behind to do repair work.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 3/7/2023 at 8:21 PM, babana.7521 said:

The only way to solve this repairing problem is to give reward correctly.  Everyone wants reward, and everyone want to play their game peacefully.

 

Wall needs to repair, sometime they don't need repair, they need to be repair at the correct timing,  and is in direct ratio to how many supply you have and how many supply are coming into your objective, if you have a squad coming to defend, etc etc.  If there are players who only come to WvW to get their shinies at the same time destroying the game for the other players, this wall repair reward system needs to be fix. 

 

how to reward wall repair

 

No Reward for
1) no reward on wall repair if the wall is above 50%  percent integrity.
2) no reward on wall repair if the supply is from the same objective. 
3) no reward if they stay in an objective doing one task which is repairing the wall. 

4) minus reward if they keep on repairing just to troll the supply

 

Reward if

1) a player is actively playing the game, defending the objective, engaged in fights when the attacker is attacking the objective, and they repair the wall to keep the enemy at bay. 

2) max reward if the supply is obtain from a camp 

3) 50% reward if the supply is obtain from nearby tower

4) max reward for repairing if they flip a camp and walk the dolyak to the objective that needs repairs. 

 

You are trying to add an extreme amount of complexity and extra calculation into the equation where as they pretty much already applied a solution by removing participation for repairs and creating a limited window defined by the defense event. On top of that we haven't seen the other shoe drop yet which is how the logic for the failed attacks will be defined and what the reaction to it would be by the player base. Might be advisable to see the full picture of impact first. I am betting we will be seeing more micro holes all over the place so this excessive repairing might be seen different when you see towers getting breached by the same side on 4 different sides of the tower being attacked. Could be wrong but that's the point in we don't know yet. Let's see the full set of changes and then review the actual impact.

[babana.7521]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

You are trying to add an extreme amount of complexity and extra calculation into the equation where as they pretty much already applied a solution by removing participation for repairs and creating a limited window defined by the defense event. On top of that we haven't seen the other shoe drop yet which is how the logic for the failed attacks will be defined and what the reaction to it would be by the player base. Might be advisable to see the full picture of impact first. I am betting we will be seeing more micro holes all over the place so this excessive repairing might be seen different when you see towers getting breached by the same side on 4 different sides of the tower being attacked. Could be wrong but that's the point in we don't know yet. Let's see the full set of changes and then review the actual impact.

It is the only way to encourage players not to use up the supply unnecessary. I didn't want to make this, the troll repairer make me want to make this. 

FYI for the wall repairers, you only need to repair once to get the full reward, so please just stop trolling your own server. you have ample time to get supply from camps for repair to get the same amount of reward without draining the supply in the objective that need it for emergency uses. 

[Sugar Min.5834]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:48 PM, Eudaimonia.8695 said:

It negatively affects fights in objectives. People don't build defensive siege, don't disable or at least try to kill some stragglers. All they do is waste supply repairing a wall/gate while it is being damaged. They don't contribute anything to the team. They're being 100% useless and it's always the same people that abuse this nonsense.

 

Note: I'm only talking about the players that knowingly abuse the reward system, not the players that repair when it actually makes sense.

 

Revert this kitten so people don't get rewarded for doing nothing.

Repairing gates and walls so that the next wave of attacks or roamers couldn't get into the objectives so easily or it's sort of a delay tactic till help comes. They are NOT doing nothing. It's playing an optional role in WvW and not just attacking all the time. Are you new in WvW?

In fact I would encourage more rewards for objective defenders to lure players into making an effort to defend instead of afking around while on short breaks.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Min Min.9368

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

It is the only way to encourage players not to use up the supply unnecessary. I didn't want to make this, the troll repairer make me want to make this. 

FYI for the wall repairers, you only need to repair once to get the full reward, so please just stop trolling your own server. you have ample time to get supply from camps for repair to get the same amount of reward without draining the supply in the objective that need it for emergency uses. 

We have different assumptions. You are assuming people are repairing for reward. I am assuming people are repairing to not lose objectives. Your assumption of reward is handled by the defense event. Mine is keeping what we own which is not yet accounted for since the failed attack event is not yet in place nor are the week end placement events. So please bear in mind these are not the same events. 

[Jitters.9401]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

You are assuming people are repairing for reward.

This is actually a fact. In the past I also repaired walls for the tiny wvw exp due to it being a reward.

[Tythan.2936]

This has literally became a widespread joke in game with people asking others to go on their alt on the enemy server and perma treb sm so that they can repair every 5min and farm the rewards, but some people here are somehow convinced that all those outer wall huggers are 🤩 doing their best to defend sm 🤩

@Lan Deathrider.5910 "Meh how dare you complain about the devs, they care so much about wvw that they finally changed something after only a few years ! But you're just scaring them away booh."
Man I can't picture how delusional you are for thinking devs are scared by people complaining on forums.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Tythan.2936 said:

This has literally became a widespread joke in game with people asking others to go on their alt on the enemy server and perma treb sm so that they can repair every 5min and farm the rewards, but some people here are somehow convinced that all those outer wall huggers are 🤩 doing their best to defend sm 🤩

@Lan Deathrider.5910 "Meh how dare you complain about the devs, they care so much about wvw that they finally changed something after only a few years ! But you're just scaring them away booh."
Man I can't picture how delusional you are for thinking devs are scared by people complaining on forums.

Yeah... Do you know the history of RBL? How about when Warclaw was introduced? There is a reason why we snicker when they call WvW a cornerstone of the game. Anytime they do something for WvW, the forums trash it nonstop until it gets reduced to lipstick on a pig. Then the forums kitten, moan, and complain about how they never get any new content. It's a cycle.

This is just the rewards version of the Warclaw roll out. We'll end up with the rewards reduced to nothing and the collective WvW forum will return to QQ'ing about how it is abandoned by Anet, and how it's the lowest g/hr end game activity.

But hey, its not like I wasn't raising hell about including a daily/weekly vendor for years. People wouldn't be QQ'ing about how people are getting their rewards if they were just trading in Emblems at a vendor.

Besides, my commentary wasn't about people complaining about the Devs, it was about people complaining about how others are enjoying a game in the way that they want. So, if you're going to troll, get better at it.

[Tythan.2936]

38 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah... Do you know the history of RBL? How about when Warclaw was introduced? There is a reason why we snicker when they call WvW a cornerstone of the game. Anytime they do something for WvW, the forums trash it nonstop until it gets reduced to lipstick on a pig. Then the forums kitten, moan, and complain about how they never get any new content. It's a cycle.

This is just the rewards version of the Warclaw roll out. We'll end up with the rewards reduced to nothing and the collective WvW forum will return to QQ'ing about how it is abandoned by Anet, and how it's the lowest g/hr end game activity.

But hey, its not like I wasn't raising hell about including a daily/weekly vendor for years. People wouldn't be QQ'ing about how people are getting their rewards if they were just trading in Emblems at a vendor.

Besides, my commentary wasn't about people complaining about the Devs, it was about people complaining about how others are enjoying a game in the way that they want. So, if you're going to troll, get better at it.

"Maybe then we'll stop scaring the devs away from WvW development eh? "
"my commentary wasn't about people complaining about the Devs".
Well you can keep telling yourself that, but it seems you don't understand your own words sir.

Also the initial post here was about deleting/reducing the rewards for people who spend their days hugging sm outer walls to repair it. This is not about completely deleting the rewards, as you're implying.

Imo Devs don't even try. If they're scared of the few dozen goons coming here everyday to complain (which I hope is false), then WvW is even more doomed than I thought.

Bonus : if you expect me to not troll or to be polite with someone like you, well, "I'm going to need you to do 2 things :

1. shut up
2. mind your own business" 🤡

Edited March 10, 2023 by Tythan.2936

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 minutes ago, Tythan.2936 said:

"Maybe then we'll stop scaring the devs away from WvW development eh? "
"my commentary wasn't about people complaining about the Devs".
Well you can keep telling yourself that, but it seems you don't understand your own words sir.

Also the initial post here was about deleting/reducing the rewards for people who spend their days hugging sm outer walls to repair it. This is not about completely deleting the rewards, as you're implying.

Imo Devs don't even try. If they're scared of the few dozen goons coming here everyday to complain (which I hope is false), then WvW is even more doomed than I thought.

Bonus : if you expect me to not troll or to be polite with someone like you, well, "I'm going to need you to do 2 things :

1. shut up
2. mind your own business" 🤡

Cool story bro. We're still in that cycle of Devs giving a new shiny thing to WvW, the WvW forum complains about it, closely followed by the Devs then gutting it, which will then be followed by the same forums complaining about being neglected by the Devs.

The way to break that cycle is stopping the part where we are currently at, which is for people to stop their QQ about the new shiny thing. So, if you got a complaint about people getting their rewards shut up and mind your own business, otherwise we're going to just continue this cycle of the WvW forums and their tendency to complain about being Anet's abandoned cornerstone of the game when all they do is crap all over what Anet does give them.