Leap of Faith is Busted

[Zebulon.1850]

This is a problem in WvW as well.

 

Regardless of what the skill has listed, it does significantly more. Akin to when warrior dagger burst was bugged.

 

Please review the wiki. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_of_Faith

 

It currently does about 1.75x in wvw and pvp compared to what it should actually be doing.

 

Edit, I somehow missed the 2nd page where someone pointed this out already, but I guess it's worth repeating.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Zebulon.1850
Clarity

[Myror.7521]

@Ragnar.4257 ahhhh..... Wait wait....... I could do the Same! Why does ele get skills that are....

1. Dealing Hart DPS

2. Are ranged

3. Heals themselves

4. Blind enemys

Just in one Skill. While I am Not allowed to have a hard dmg melee Skill that does Just only dmg and is very telegraphed.

 

Ele Player: cause we get so Low HP

Other Player: Well then if it is cause of this gimme also super Speed and invulnerability every 5 Seconds. Decent cc's plus hardest DPS Hit skills. Would be fair enough since i do Not have any ranged Attack

Ele Player: Nah would Not be fair cause you Not ele obv.

 

 

Ok ok sry this would heared a Bit toxic but you litterly Argument is Like this and you Just saw IT doesnt make any sence lel.

[Ragnar.4257]

14 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Ragnar.4257 ahhhh..... Wait wait....... I could do the Same! Why does ele get skills that are....

1. Dealing Hart DPS

2. Are ranged

3. Heals themselves

4. Blind enemys

Just in one Skill. While I am Not allowed to have a hard dmg melee Skill that does Just only dmg and is very telegraphed.

 

Ele Player: cause we get so Low HP

Other Player: Well then if it is cause of this gimme also super Speed and invulnerability every 5 Seconds. Decent cc's plus hardest DPS Hit skills. Would be fair enough since i do Not have any ranged Attack

Ele Player: Nah would Not be fair cause you Not ele obv.

 

 

Ok ok sry this would heared a Bit toxic but you litterly Argument is Like this and you Just saw IT doesnt make any sence lel.

But that's exactly my point.

You can't assess a skill just by looking at it on its own.

You have to look at how the class performs as a whole.

The relative power of Ele and Warrior is not what this is about, I don't care.

The fact that you can cherry-pick some skills in the game that are bad, doesn't mean that guardian GS is too strong and needs nerfs. The only thing that would is if guardian GS as a build is overperforming. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Ragnar.4257

[Myror.7521]

@Ragnar.4257 hmm but still Axe is an underpowered weapon in PvP for warr. It used to be a dps only weapon and now doesnt do this rly good anymore sooo. Still don`t get ya Point here xd. Just call me dump 😄

[Ragnar.4257]

1 minute ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Ragnar.4257 hmm but still Axe is an underpowered weapon in PvP for warr. It used to be a dps only weapon and now doesnt do this rly good anymore sooo. Still don`t get ya Point here xd. Just call me dump 😄

Again, the fact that you can cherry-pick some skills in the game that are bad, doesn't mean that guardian GS is too strong and needs nerfs. The only thing that would is if guardian GS as a build is overperforming.

Do you think GS guardian is overperforming? Really? Really really?

Edited March 8, 2023 by Ragnar.4257

[MedievalThings.5417]

I'm still trying to figure out why daredevil needs 3 dodges.  Not sure this is an issue.

[Sereath.1428]

1 hour ago, Zebulon.1850 said:

This is a problem in WvW as well.

 

Regardless of what the skill has listed, it does significantly more. Akin to when warrior dagger burst was bugged.

 

Please review the wiki. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_of_Faith

 

It currently does about 1.75x in wvw and pvp compared to what it should actually be doing.

 

Edit, I somehow missed the 2nd page where someone pointed this out already, but I guess it's worth repeating.

This

Regardless of anyone's opinions.

It needs to be fixed
and before any other guardian changes.

[Shao.7236]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 Axe has options on the off-hand, greatsword doesn't. Hence why with or without a framework the comparison is non sensical here. Just addressing OP, both skills comes from different weapon setups.

Comparing Arc Slicer would have made more sense but now apparently there's inconsistencies in tool tips so clearly this is all for nothing.

[Myror.7521]

@Ragnar.4257 wait. I do not even said once that Guardians GS Skill is broken xd. Its a 2 handed weapon and very telegraphed.... would be stupid If it does not Hit hard. My only question here is why are some skills allowed to Deal Like high DMG + Heal + ranged + blind  while others like said Axe burst is not even allowed to deal any good while been a melee high telegraphed burst Skill where you need to Spend Adrenalin (Main ressource of warr) for.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

lmao ❤️

Not lately at least. Eles and Wars were quite pleasant the past handful of months, with their dominant positions in the meta.

Can't speak to the ele part but Wars at least went through 2.5 years of utter 🐶💩 garbage level balance until last October. So, they had a reason to grumble, and for at least a little while deserve some time in a dominant position. I just want Anet to move away from the seesaw balancing that forces a few specs to be utter trash for prolonged periods of time while a couple of others get to be the favored children.

[Myror.7521]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 I think the Games Balance over all is actually not that bad. Only problems i see imo would be ele (cata) and (ik some people might disagree) the nades scrapper build that is going around rn. Also Spellbraker might be a Bit too strong rn buuut yea done a Post allready about that one xD.

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 I think the Games Balance over all is actually not that bad. Only problems i see imo would be ele (cata) and (ik some people might disagree) the nades scrapper build that is going around rn. Also Spellbraker might be a Bit too strong rn buuut yea done a Post allready about that one xD.

The only problems left in order of most to least significant

1. Tempest (needs less extreme and more general defenses)

2. Catalyst (same as tempest)

3. Daredevil (Black powder, best suggestion i heard was changing it to a dark field.)

4. Spellbreaker (Full Counter cooldown and visual bug. Should honestly replace full counter with mage bane tether.)

5. Virtuoso (Needs to greatly tone down on the blocks and distortions and should move to utilizing more protection and resolution in its kit as well as improved mobility)

6. Renegade (Needs to tone down its damage to higher than before the patch but lower than now) if elementalist ever falls out of meta, this class will dominate hard)

7. Scrapper (cap superspeed and stealth duration to 3 seconds for all classes,  that'll take care of this problem. The rest is just stunbreak and dodge its burst. People will begin to play bruiser scrapper again.)

8. Soulbeast (Will become a bit of a problem if ele drops out if the meta. Nerf one wolf pack from 1/4 to 1/2 second strike delay interval, add different colored arrows to Long bow skills to differentiate Longbow 1, 3, and 4. Builds will move from cheese sic em to more well rounded builds).

That would be a pretty good start before handing out buffs/reworks to underplayed classes which most of which would involve mobility and/or utility to work better in conquest without inflating their general power.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Dr Meta.3158
Typo

[Myror.7521]

@Dr Meta.3158 Just to answer with my own opinions. 

 

1-2. Catalyst well as you said tho (also maybe nerfs to ranged blinds). I do not see a Problem with tempest yet but maybe over time?

 

3. For this Point. I would say is good as it is rn. 40 Seconds CD is good and high enough for a Skill like this

 

4. Yea they seem to have a Problem to fix this Buggy shorter CD. Also for the visual one I havent seen it for a while now. My Suggestion to Bring Spellbraker in line would be remove its unblockable path and gain it at least a bit of dmg back

 

5.Slightly annoying to fight against without any unblockables but also doesnt get many Options its like Tank enemys and hope He get No Dodge left in time

 

6. Idk does not see any half good Renegade in weeks

 

7. The only Problem with this is Just granades. As said. It used to be Like a DPS/Supp but thx to granades massive DMG it could cleave a whole team in seconds to death without any Help so please Nerf granades

 

8. Only Problem Here might be a condi Hybrid build power builds are Like ezy to take down once you get them in range soo i see no Real reason to Nerf it anyways

[Dr Meta.3158]

17 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Dr Meta.3158 Just to answer with my own opinions. 

 

1-2. Catalyst well as you said tho (also maybe nerfs to ranged blinds). I do not see a Problem with tempest yet but maybe over time?

 

3. For this Point. I would say is good as it is rn. 40 Seconds CD is good and high enough for a Skill like this

 

4. Yea they seem to have a Problem to fix this Buggy shorter CD. Also for the visual one I havent seen it for a while now. My Suggestion to Bring Spellbraker in line would be remove its unblockable path and gain it at least a bit of dmg back

 

5.Slightly annoying to fight against without any unblockables but also doesnt get many Options its like Tank enemys and hope He get No Dodge left in time

 

6. Idk does not see any half good Renegade in weeks

 

7. The only Problem with this is Just granades. As said. It used to be Like a DPS/Supp but thx to granades massive DMG it could cleave a whole team in seconds to death without any Help so please Nerf granades

 

8. Only Problem Here might be a condi Hybrid build power builds are Like ezy to take down once you get them in range soo i see no Real reason to Nerf it anyways

Black Powder

[Myror.7521]

@Dr Meta.3158 ah ou you meant Pistol 5 .... Sry im a Bit tired rn. But yea idk i think a nerf to how big the circle is would be enough. Just back to how it used to be. I think a nerf so its not a blind field might be too mutch maybe.

[Jojo.6590]

On 3/7/2023 at 5:57 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

It's wild how asking for telegraphed skills to be nerfed eventually bites everyone in the rear by making their nuke skill vulnerable to nerfs, and how everyone has the same argument for why it shouldn't be nerfed when its their turn.

If it hitting for 10k is ok, then balance the other things that are harder to land with similar cds accordingly.  

If things hitting for 10k are busted in skill situations similar to this, then balance this accordingly. 

If evisc/decap has to hit for 7k, so does this. If that's too nerfed, buff evisc/decap and the other big skills that require full anim commitment.

This... This has been the go-to for balance and the way both the forums and reddit have been going since POF. If class/skill type A cant do xyz then neither should any other class/skill of similar type (ie range skill vs melee vs cc vs mobility, etc). It is beyond hypocritical and will only continue to get worse.  

[Spellhunter.9675]

9 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

You can't assess a skill just by looking at it on its own. 

I can because guard's GS3 is bugged. It has nothing to do with guardian's perfomance.

[semak.7481]

9 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Again, the fact that you can cherry-pick some skills in the game that are bad, doesn't mean that guardian GS is too strong and needs nerfs. The only thing that would is if guardian GS as a build is overperforming.

Do you think GS guardian is overperforming? Really? Really really?

Wait, you want to nerf whole guardian build instead of fixing a bug that happened due to pve change? Sounds like something that anet would do... are you trying to get hired? /thinking

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

If something is bugged, go fix it before nerfing a build, because the nerf may no longer be needed if the bug is fixed...

[Grand Marshal.4098]

There is a reason the T3 SM guards use the guardian greatsword and not the warrior greatsword, with LoF as their opener ‼️😱

Edited March 9, 2023 by Grand Marshal.4098

[apharma.3741]

10 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

The only problems left in order of most to least significant

1. Tempest (needs less extreme and more general defenses)

2. Catalyst (same as tempest)

3. Daredevil (Black powder, best suggestion i heard was changing it to a dark field.)

5. Virtuoso (Needs to greatly tone down on the blocks and distortions and should move to utilizing more protection and resolution in its kit as well as improved mobility)

That would be a pretty good start before handing out buffs/reworks to underplayed classes which most of which would involve mobility and/or utility to work better in conquest without inflating their general power.

1. Guardian was already competing very well with tempest in mAT, SBoon earth shield so they need to use mistform and problem more or less solved.

2. It's far more diffcult as the problems extend to the spec design at it's core with fields, auras and boons without making it super clunky with ICDs or just plain rubbish. You can numbers change it to an OK spot but it's very likely to suddenly completely drop out of being effective.

3. You would actually kill x/p thief builds with this change, this is honestly the worst idea I've ever seen and I'm no fan of thieves. If it granted 5s of stealth maybe but then it's a dumbed down game. Better to fine tune stealth as a mechanic as it's abused by many classes once they get regular acces to stealth.

5. They should never have added distortion to Virtuoso but additionally signet of illusions and blurred inscriptions are massive crutches for what is a heavily nerfed and gutted class. Virtuoso would also be effectively useless if these were changed as it's shatters are almost universally worse than all other mesmer specs and won't get clones so condition specs lose damage too. That's not me saying these shouldn't be addressed just that they absolutely need to deal with the clunky bladesongs and how much worse they are. Also "mesmers shouldn't get hit" is a balance philosophy.

[Dadnir.5038]

46 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

1. Guardian was already competing very well with tempest in mAT, SBoon earth shield so they need to use mistform and problem more or less solved.

The issue isn't Earth shield, the issue is Magnetic surge and more accurately the magnetic aura granted by this skill. As an aura, the effect of magnetic aura is just to strong and it's especially problematic when it's paired with e-specs that capitalize on auras like tempest or catalyst.

51 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

3. You would actually kill x/p thief builds with this change, this is honestly the worst idea I've ever seen and I'm no fan of thieves. If it granted 5s of stealth maybe but then it's a dumbed down game. Better to fine tune stealth as a mechanic as it's abused by many classes once they get regular acces to stealth.

Agreed. It's not the way to gain stealth that's the issue, it's stealth as a mechanic that's problematic. GW2's stealth is simply to "absolute" for it to be healthy.

55 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

5. They should never have added distortion to Virtuoso but additionally signet of illusions and blurred inscriptions are massive crutches for what is a heavily nerfed and gutted class. Virtuoso would also be effectively useless if these were changed as it's shatters are almost universally worse than all other mesmer specs and won't get clones so condition specs lose damage too. That's not me saying these shouldn't be addressed just that they absolutely need to deal with the clunky bladesongs and how much worse they are. Also "mesmers shouldn't get hit" is a balance philosophy.

I'd say, the true issue isn't bladesong distorsion per se but the fact that they added a fifth bladesong. Making Bladeturn requiem less cumbersome to use would have been enough to solve the issue that led to the introduction of bladesong distorsion.

[apharma.3741]

Just now, Dadnir.5038 said:

The issue isn't Earth shield, the issue is Magnetic surge and more accurately the magnetic aura granted by this skill. As an aura, the effect of magnetic aura is just to strong and it's especially problematic when it's paired with e-specs that capitalize on auras like tempest or catalyst.

Agreed. It's not the way to gain stealth that's the issue, it's stealth as a mechanic that's problematic. GW2's stealth is simply to "absolute" for it to be healthy.

I'd say, the true issue isn't bladesong distorsion per se but the fact that they added a fifth bladesong. Making Bladeturn requiem less cumbersome to use would have been enough to solve the issue that led to the introduction of bladesong distorsion.

Earth shield has been a major problem for a long time, we saw this with condition weaver, tempest and even catalyst was running it till recent nerfs. The entire thing is badly designed and so are most conjures as they're simply not used at all. SBoon it and give elementalist conjures that actually work, aren't loading defences all onto one weapon and use can be controlled much better.

For me stealth is more of an issue in that it stacks and the forced lock out period is too short and non existent for not attacking. Ultimately you can sit around in stealth and the other person can't tell when or if you are attacking, it's 100% in favour of the person in stealth all the time at a certain critical point of duration.

No it is bladesong distortion, the spec was designed without distortion as a bladesong and it was fine. The issue was that it sucks so completely at doing damage and the scaling is linear not exponential. It had a lot of issues doing damage and pressuring while being kinda slow. It was a strict downgrade to even core mesmer in both power and condition varients. Bladesong requiem is super easy to use, you press the button with 1 or more blades, you channel block for 2s, blades only add to the pitiful damage it does. Maybe you're thinking of another bladesong like diversion which is effectively a dead skill. Additionally reset type skills are a huge problem in this game, CMC literally spent his stream talking about how balancing skills around there being a CDR and not being a CDR was very challenging, imagine having to balance around a skill resetting something and not?

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, apharma.3741 said:

Earth shield has been a major problem for a long time, we saw this with condition weaver, tempest and even catalyst was running it till recent nerfs. The entire thing is badly designed and so are most conjures as they're simply not used at all. SBoon it and give elementalist conjures that actually work, aren't loading defences all onto one weapon and use can be controlled much better.

For me stealth is more of an issue in that it stacks and the forced lock out period is too short and non existent for not attacking. Ultimately you can sit around in stealth and the other person can't tell when or if you are attacking, it's 100% in favour of the person in stealth all the time at a certain critical point of duration.

No it is bladesong distortion, the spec was designed without distortion as a bladesong and it was fine. The issue was that it sucks so completely at doing damage and the scaling is linear not exponential. It had a lot of issues doing damage and pressuring while being kinda slow. It was a strict downgrade to even core mesmer in both power and condition varients. Bladesong requiem is super easy to use, you press the button with 1 or more blades, you channel block for 2s, blades only add to the pitiful damage it does. Maybe you're thinking of another bladesong like diversion which is effectively a dead skill. Additionally reset type skills are a huge problem in this game, CMC literally spent his stream talking about how balancing skills around there being a CDR and not being a CDR was very challenging, imagine having to balance around a skill resetting something and not?

Wait, you can't do damage on virtuoso? What are you running? 

[apharma.3741]

1 minute ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Wait, you can't do damage on virtuoso? What are you running? 

Every bladesong has at minimum a 0.75s cast time due to the way it's animation works, if you don't understand why and think quickness reduces this take a few mins to play and investigate bladesongs. If you're getting hit by bladesongs it's a skill issue.
If you take them out of the equation virtuoso damage is kinda meh. You can set up a bladesong but at this point we're at core warrior level of counters so you'd be every bit as viable against the person as core warrior.
This isn't just my opinion, a lot of good players aren't playing virtuoso because it basically loses it's match up due to losing cap and bladesongs being so easily avoided.