Everything that is wrong with WvW in 2023

[Sparetent.9756]

On 3/8/2023 at 7:15 AM, Riba.3271 said:

So it is spring again, and time for my annual thread to list what is most surely wrong with WvW. I am saddened to inform I have already made many of these over past couple years and only 1 or 2 points have been partly adressed, so the list is pretty much the same but at least my vocabulary and ability to simplify words is improving. Lets begin, we will go in order of what systems I think have most negative effect to least negative.[Removed rest for space....]

You make some good points, but there's a few things you forgot on your list!

 

Swim speed potions - You chase someone to the water, and they jump in and take off at warp 9.9!! It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

CC (Crowd Control) - By far the most annoying and game-breaking mechanic currently in WvW! The solution is simple and already implemented in the game, it's just not used in this manner. Give us "diminishing returns"! Basically, you get cc the first time at full effect, 2nd time at 50% effect, 3rd time at 25% effect, 4th time you are immune to cc effects ONLY for a short time.

 

Reflects - Don't even get me started on how stupid the sheer amount of reflects is right now. You LOOK at an elementalist and get  chill effect. Then there's endless bubbles, projectile-absorbing fields, and reflections everywhere the eye can see. Completely ruins ranged game play.

[Chaba.5410]

13 minutes ago, pcgamefreak.5208 said:

Beware, "ArenaNet Babies" have a new cheat in WvW.  They will freeze your action bar abilities so nothing works until you're health is reduced and then reactivate.

Sounds like you got chain knocked down/dazed.  There's an ele build that does that.

[SweetPotato.7456]

Say What?

Edited October 29, 2023 by SweetPotato.7456

[urd.8306]

Topic:
Nobody respects 1v1 or duels anymore.
Even when you fight in the "former duel spot" near south camp you get interrupted so often by someone (mostly willbender) on their shiny new EoD class. And it even works the other way around when people who duelled attack you while sitting there watching.

Sorry people, this worked for years on respect basis.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

1 hour ago, diomache.9246 said:

Topic:
Nobody respects 1v1 or duels anymore.
Even when you fight in the "former duel spot" near south camp you get interrupted so often by someone (mostly willbender) on their shiny new EoD class. And it even works the other way around when people who duelled attack you while sitting there watching.

Sorry people, this worked for years on respect basis.

I'm not a roamer by any means but that rule has always been respected. Testimony to the times we live in. It's sad.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

On 3/8/2023 at 4:15 AM, Riba.3271 said:

Average quality of content is worse

worse then what? before links? that tells me you weren't playing when there were no links. not sure i can take you seriously about this subject. content was completely dead outside of na prime and the rest of the time it was a ktrain

[TheGrimm.5624]

Note to posters: The poster necroing the thread is no longer present so check your sources. FYI. Save yourself some confusion in how/what/where. 

[Jitters.9401]

On 10/28/2023 at 7:48 PM, Chaba.5410 said:

Sounds like you got chain knocked down/dazed.  There's an ele build that does that.

No. I've actually seen this more than once.

I've no lag, fighting, then I cannot use a single skill.

I am not dazed. Not stunned. Not knocked back. Not rooted. 

No skills on cooldown. 

Just literally standing there unable move or use a single skill while the enemy has free reign to continuously hit me. 

It is just like your skill bar and mouse froze but everything else in the game works perfectly. 

[Lucy.3728]

On 3/8/2023 at 1:15 PM, Riba.3271 said:

how widespread is the damage this system causes to stability and player mentality

I get sometimes complained at for using my mother tongue on my German server when linked to other language servers.

I see the problem, but it wasn't my descension to start linking to others. Nor can I change it. I chose a German server for a reason, which is German. There are enough German servers to just rotate linking among those.

You may think that since I write in English here, where is my problem? Well, I actually often use deepl.com for this forum. For longer text or complicated explanations.

Apart from the language barrier I like the linking system. Sure there are servers I don't want to be linked with because of bad experience in the past (toxic chats, sabotage players) but most I get to know are good to play with and I learn something new. Like learning from the enemy, learning from the linked ally.

---

The worst things about wvw:

• The demand to play meta. Because it is effective. This is a game, I want fun. If people want to play ranger, let them.
• The opinion, that not just some have, that when you do towers, camps and keeps you do ppt, and ppt is bad. (No it isn't) All what counts is ppk. Zergs that do nothing but meeting somewhere to fight each other. They don't play wvw. They play gvg or something. If they attack a structure then only to lure the opposing zerg to them.
• Another bad thing are the roamers whose only goal it is to hassle other players that don't want anything to do with them. There's a mode for pvp. It's called spvp. It's not wvw.

In short: wvw gets abused for pvp and gvg. There Anet is to blame. Apparently the spvp got neglected and disimproved until it was ruined for many players. And a gvg system in a game  called Guild Wars, wasn't implemented.

The actual wvw players, those that play every role above, because that is wvw, and not just one, they get laughed at and offended.

[Lucy.3728]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:31 PM, Sparetent.9756 said:

CC (Crowd Control) - By far the most annoying and game-breaking mechanic currently in WvW!

I also find this very suboptimal in a pvp situation. Making another player a mere spectator of his death because he can't do anything more than watch. Made completely helpless.
I quit Aion because of that, back then. I had a Godstone on my bow and when it triggered, the opponent was paralyzed (petrified) and could go make himself a coffee.

[Riba.3271]

4 hours ago, Lucy.3728 said:

 

Apart from the language barrier I like the linking system. Sure there are servers I don't want to be linked with because of bad experience in the past (toxic chats, sabotage players) but most I get to know are good to play with and I learn something new. Like learning from the enemy, learning from the linked ally.

You don't understand how destructive linking system is for average player, guild or commander. As amount of queues and players/maps available changes every linking, the game plays vastly differently every 2 months. Even for guilds it is troublesome having to gamble on a server to be able to find a server that is capable of staying in tier with multiple possible enemies available..

Lets say you're a new player to WvW and you're used to having proper voice commander at certain timezone, for example right after work,  After 2 months, it is likely the commander has either transferred, was on the linked server, gets overtaken by much worse commander or quits completely due to lack of players or enemies. This is why stable monoservers and enemies are key for proper WvW, it isn't like average player has knowledge where to transfer or able to log in at any hour average workday. They have bad experience for 2 months, and they will just move on to next game or another gamemode.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Lucy.3728]

7 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

You don't understand how destructive linking system is for average player, guild or commander.

I'm an average player.

My server has a low wvw population. It has the lack of players. Without linking, the wvw would consist of turning camps and do a bit wvw outside of any prime times. Like early in the morning and afternoon.
Linking gives us back wvw life.

Being on an EU server there's not problem with the timezones.

After work time is different for a lot of players. My work ends at 2 pm.
Prime time on EU server is around 7/8 pm for 2-3 hours. Those are the times with queues.

If you are only after filled wvw maps but not overfilled, then wvw servers would need to act like the pve megaservers. A map with low population gets closed and the people get transferred to maps with higher population. It gives night players some content. But the identity of the single servers get lost, just like what happened in pve. Guilds would become more meaningless because you have to manage with the people that are currently on your map.

But who wants that? Wvw would feel so meaningless.

The compromise seems to be that alliance system. (A compromise is when nobody is happy with the solution but can live with it.)

[Mabi black.1824]

17 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

You don't understand how destructive linking system is for average player, guild or commander. As amount of queues and players/maps available changes every linking, the game plays vastly differently every 2 months.

 Is it the fault of Anet and the connection system? Or is it the players' fault?  Or even if by hypothesis Anet had twice as many servers available, and therefore smaller pieces to assemble and build much more interesting/balanced games, do you think it would work better? Don't try too hard to answer because you and I know it's not like that. Is it because transfers are out of control? Good question, I don't know what to answer for real.😉

[Chaba.5410]

28 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

the game plays vastly differently every 2 months.

New WvW content you say?  Where do I sign?

[Chaba.5410]

30 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Lets say you're a new player to WvW and you're used to having proper voice commander at certain timezone, for example right after work,

That's when the new player joins that commander's guild.

[Chaba.5410]

36 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

This is why stable monoservers and enemies are key for proper WvW

Until players get bored with facing the same content month after month after month after month after month after month after month with no end in sight.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Riba.3271]

4 hours ago, Lucy.3728 said:

My server has a low wvw population. It has the lack of players. Without linking, the wvw would consist of turning camps and do a bit wvw outside of any prime times. Like early in the morning and afternoon.
Linking gives us back wvw life.

If it wasn't apparent from my post, I was not saying every server should stay. 4 or 5 tiers, just no links. German server amount would be cut in half, so you will have lot of players and commanders to fight alongside with.

[Riba.3271]

4 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

5 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Lets say you're a new player to WvW and you're used to having proper voice commander at certain timezone, for example right after work,

That's when the new player joins that commander's guild.

That is solution if you're looking for just social experience in a guild, but even the commander can't do much about bad linkings. No enemies, no allies, massive queues, overlapping open tag timezones are all issues. Things that would be much better controlled with your own and enemy servers being stable.

Of course you can travel as a group transferring around every 2 months, but that will never lead to finding the best server out of all the choices. Also your guild cannot really communicate what they want from the server, or have a say in building it, since there will always be new patch of people that come from completely different culture.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Riba.3271]

4 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

5 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

You don't understand how destructive linking system is for average player, guild or commander. As amount of queues and players/maps available changes every linking, the game plays vastly differently every 2 months.

 Is it the fault of Anet and the connection system? Or is it the players' fault?  Or even if by hypothesis Anet had twice as many servers available, and therefore smaller pieces to assemble and build much more interesting/balanced games, do you think it would work better? Don't try too hard to answer because you and I know it's not like that. Is it because transfers are out of control? Good question, I don't know what to answer for real.😉

Anets fault. Making populations "balanced" every 2 months, while allowing massive amount of cheap transfers to go around, is just a failure.  We have seen Full+Full and Medium+High linkings in the past. How can this even occur in same system where a full server might be stuck alone with no link?

[RisingDawn.5796]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:03 PM, Riba.3271 said:

Anets fault. Making populations "balanced" every 2 months, while allowing massive amount of cheap transfers to go around, is just a failure.  We have seen Full+Full and Medium+High linkings in the past. How can this even occur in same system where a full server might be stuck alone with no link?

At least FSP and other servers like even WSR; which isn't the bandwagon it once was, managed to keep most of their community together, unlike Deso 3 years ago, where all of the active guilds left deso including AuX.

So it is admirable, because transferring everyone would just split their community and they would have to find an empty enough server to find, which may become a bandwagon altogether, in this current system.

I don't know how Anet's algorithm thinks, servers like FSP don't need more population, despite being stuck without one for almost six months, also in almost perma t5

Meanwhile, players and sometimes  guilds transfer and bandwagon constantly, while others play on alts on stacked servers, rather than some lower tier server for some challenge, it's like a form of smurfing, to make them feel better about themselves or something.

Some people rq from one server, to another to faceroll on another server in another matchup. Even current T1 is overhyped, because of the gap in quality and also leads, even though RoS is weaker during this link, yet some people still choose to alt on the current T1 servers, even to lead on different servers in the current matchup. Additionally with the queues, where is the sense behind that?

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Anets fault. Making populations "balanced" every 2 months, while allowing massive amount of cheap transfers to go around, is just a failure.  We have seen Full+Full and Medium+High linkings in the past. How can this even occur in same system where a full server might be stuck alone with no link?

So we theory craft. Players gamed the system while solo servers, players gamed the system while links. WR without Alliance is incoming. So thoughts on preventing players gaming the system while we have WR without Alliance. I am not for the WR either but its incoming and now without tools for players to form communities minus mega guilds or community guilds we are left in your worst case scenario that everyone is tossed up and pieces lie where they drop. There are not options to call for the WR not to occur at this point so trying that is not an option. So how do we prevent players trying to abuse the system after a sort? Thoughts? 

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So how do we prevent players trying to abuse the system after a sort? Thoughts? 

You encourage them to stick together as a tight group ie a guild or similar sized group, something they choose themselves and want to part of and engage with?

Because that’s really all you can do except making it punishable by law to have multiple accounts, which will always be “abusable” under ANY system.

But if you are against WR then 🤷‍♂️

[geist.4126]

It's not working without the community doing the right thing. Some years ago when leveling and equipping new wvw characters was more of a chore you could have adress most of the issue by transfer costs.
Now that it takes you less than a week to level and gear up there is no solution from Anets side I could think off.

It now needs people to find solutions; they won't.

I mean we have that stupid behaviour for years now that people stack on fotm servers and even good guilds merge instead of fighting each other. The only things working against that was Maguumas strategy (chicken chase) or what servers like Gandara did (bore them to death by talking a week off or sieging everything up so they only fight siege).

As long as people don't learn that they get no good wvw when they stack a server; we can't have nice things.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, geist.4126 said:

It's not working without the community doing the right thing. Some years ago when leveling and equipping new wvw characters was more of a chore you could have adress most of the issue by transfer costs.
Now that it takes you less than a week to level and gear up there is no solution from Anets side I could think off.

It now needs people to find solutions; they won't.

I mean we have that stupid behaviour for years now that people stack on fotm servers and even good guilds merge instead of fighting each other. The only things working against that was Maguumas strategy (chicken chase) or what servers like Gandara did (bore them to death by talking a week off or sieging everything up so they only fight siege).

As long as people don't learn that they get no good wvw when they stack a server; we can't have nice things.

Lol did you just suggest Maguuma players didn't stack?

[jemdarr.2158]

I don't see where he/she said that.