So defending is now not going to grant anything at all?

[Bugabuga.9721]

Up until now repairing walls/gate was basically the only reliable way to get "defender" event participation. Killing enemy invaders didn't seem to matter much, if you're lucky you'd get bronze participation, if you're not lucky it didn't count (especially towers on alpine BL by Garrison).

What exactly is supposed to be done for "gold" defender event? If enemies run away from the tower then literally nothing, right? 

Please clarify.

[Hesione.9412]

The repair "bot" activity we have seen could have been fixed by maxing the amount of supply that counted. For example, max the supply use at 20 per skirmish, so dumping more than 20 supply into a wall or gate within the one skirmish wouldn't count.  Defenders would get defense rewards, but you'd have to play longer to get them.

Want to make it a bit easier? Shift the goalposts so that supply could be used on other structures. But the use limit is still there. 20 supply used across all towers. 20 supply used across all keeps other than SMC. 20 supply used on SMC.

[Whirlygig.9685]

1 hour ago, Hesione.9412 said:

For example, max the supply use at 20 per skirmish, so dumping more than 20 supply into a wall or gate within the one skirmish wouldn't count.

 

I think this is too harsh and also punishes the server that is probably struggling. In 3 skirmish over the weekend due to the sheer size and coverage of the enemy, my server were working to defend all 3 home keeps/garrison, sometimes 2 at once, Stonemist and our EB keep. They had 3/4 squads plus cloud cover, we had one squad, a small roaming group and some randoms in EB.

 

We still had all our keeps by the end of it but there is no way all that fighting would have worked with no access to supplies to fix after pushing them back.

[Hesione.9412]

18 minutes ago, Whirlygig.9685 said:

I think this is too harsh and also punishes the server that is probably struggling. In 3 skirmish over the weekend due to the sheer size and coverage of the enemy, my server were working to defend all 3 home keeps/garrison, sometimes 2 at once, Stonemist and our EB keep. They had 3/4 squads plus cloud cover, we had one squad, a small roaming group and some randoms in EB.

 

We still had all our keeps by the end of it but there is no way all that fighting would have worked with no access to supplies to fix after pushing them back.

A workable solution needs to be one that can be defined precisely. That is why I proposed a cap on supply per skirmish per type of objective, because we know the last two variables are tracked by Anet, and Anet is also using some type of supply count for defence rewards - including credit towards defending SMC before the current reward system was implemented.

Any proposal that would require a lot more coding, i.e. using data that is not currently collected, at the Anet end is highly unlikely to be implemented.

We know that Anet employees are reading these forums, to be helpful we must present suggestions that are practical.

[LordHT.8297]

As far as I've tested, you don't get credit unless you kill someone during defense. And that's a problem because it's not hard to imagine people not getting any kills on defenses. Sustain in WvW is totally out of control these days. It's basically impossible for pugs to kill big boons blobs unless you're maguma and even for them it's been a difficult task.
The sustain of these groups has gone insane (thanks to the insistent damage nerfs of pretty much every class) and to make it worse every class in the meta has some revive mechanic (which includes illusion of life which has bugs that have been exploited for nearly all guilds for longer than any reward system) so even if the poor pug manages to knock someone down he will be revived almost instantly and if not revived, the down will mist away because the meta is full of tempests, catalysts  of all kind.
So imagine being farmed for 3 hours straight and getting absolutely nothing for it. And if you are a boon blob bot, this affects you too, because if there are no rewards for TRYING, then nobody will try and you will loose your easy bags.
And I don't know how to solve it. I would say anet should just go cancel this whole new reward system and start over or maybe fix the meta or maybe both.

[Whirlygig.9685]

I doesnt really matter if an idea or proposal for a solution is practical if its a bad idea. The way it would work at restricting to once per skirmish would punish smaller servers trying to defend their tier 3's on multiple fronts. Anything that attempts to fix a percieved defence reward issue but actually boosts the larger server on what is already a big issue with balance is not going to help WvW overall.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Whirlygig.9685

[Infusion.7149]

Repairs should not have counted for outer SMC anyway. A better fix for the supply waste would be to only count supply not taken from the structure, only from camps. It was a problem of overeager repair people on towers when people are trying to fight inside ; keeps had less of this problem.

Killing enemies does count for defense; the other issue is killing people with siege or destroying siege does not seem to always work. On top of that if the enemy gets out of combat instead of dying you do not get credit.

[Saepio.7980]

So home Garrison hit by 20, ewp in, kill 5 of them, destroy all their siege and then rep inner/outer gate.

 

Reward?

 

Absolutely nothing, what a joke you have made of WvW. 

 

Never going to defend again, just join the blob and blob around the map Pvdooring, only way to get rewards in this current format.

[ori.5829]

Repairing should not have been the content for any reward. If you want to press "F" and nothing else, go PvE. Now you actively have to kill enemies withing the range of the objective etc. It was a needed fix against that bot-like plague. Seriously, pressing F every 5 min and getting 2500 WXP for it? 

[Bern.9613]

How many millions of players are exploiting the repair wall to gain how many levels to warrant this? ANet is ever vigilant, present and has a strict rule and enforcement against bots. Right?

[bluberblasen.9684]

Revert this change

Please

[Matty.1234]

As an Aussie it's already tough, peak time is at 4am my time.

 

So I log on today, go to try take SMC with a group of about 8. We're in, and obliterated by a zerg of 40 blue, ouch! Trying to find an objective to take or defend. There's nothing close to spawn to cap on any map. Everything starts turning blue. I try to defend, but the 5 or so of us left are totally outnumbered. I can't even get in the towers before I am dead. Participation is getting a bit low.

 

They get to our keep, they're at the gate and it's melting, I throw some supplies in to slow them and call people, up my participation a bit. No noticeable number come within the minute or so it takes to tear down the 2 gates. The gates are open and I'm downed in the blink of an eye. 40 vs 5 is not really fair. No prob, I did a repair, at least I'll pop my participation back up.

 

No participation ever came.

 

I'm down to participation 5.

 

We try to take it back, some stay and defend. We don't have the numbers. =[

 

We do have the numbers to take a tower! We go to a border land, we're killing a tower gate, zerg of 40 inc, dead. Twice... Participation 4.

 

The sentries are all dead our ours, mostly dead. I guess everyone is hunting for any participation they can get.

 

I decided to log at participation 3.

 

Without getting any participation unless I manage to kill some, and then only maybe... It's hopeless. They just moved in a big zerg and were more interested in killing us than flipping camps. When they did flip a camp, there's a 5 minute cool down before that's an option for participation.

 

I logged off. At least before repairing just a little would make sure I at least got to keep my participation level up if nothing else.

 

Roamers, low population servers, and off-peakers can be really hurt by this change. I think the only steady way now to keep participation up is so sit in one place and flip a camp, if the enemy is kind enough to flip it every now and again, which is not guaranteed.

 

If the problem is too many people after the rewards, reduce the rewards, it used to work before the increases. Making participation unattainable even when you're madly running around participating just because of your time zone and being insanely out numbered just isn't fair or fun at all. Just because I'm not winning doesn't mean I'm not participating.

[ori.5829]

51 minutes ago, Matty.1234 said:

As an Aussie it's already tough, peak time is at 4am my time.

Find a server that fits your needs. There are plenty of nighttime servers around.

[Chaos God.1639]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Repairs should not have counted for outer SMC anyway. A better fix for the supply waste would be to only count supply not taken from the structure, only from camps. It was a problem of overeager repair people on towers when people are trying to fight inside ; keeps had less of this problem.

Killing enemies does count for defense; the other issue is killing people with siege or destroying siege does not seem to always work. On top of that if the enemy gets out of combat instead of dying you do not get credit.

using supplies to get exp and rewards is a waste for you? right now, it will be a waste if you do something with it that's not worth it.

the problem is still not solved after removing this. the problem is that the other players, like healers or defenders, don't get rewarded as much as the people who care more about dps.

so saying that supplies were wasted because of the defense rewards is nonsense. the main issue is still not fixed and the supplies will probably be wasted now, because the defense rewards are removed.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Chaos God.1639

[Vulkan.1375]

Finally the wall repairers have no more rewards (Mark Shard) And that's a good thing. The effect of this decision had a quick and effective impact. The queues have disappeared or are much shorter. There are less trolls, less bs in teamchat. Only good news. Ty Anet.

[Mihile.7609]

I just wish they stopped the "all or nothing" approaches. Folks were already dropping supply regardless of the points and they're going to keep doing it now, so this does nothing. Just give us like Bronze or less rewards and MORE ways to earn defense points.

[StarBound.1804]

Showed up to SM that was under attack and poured 15 supplies into the wall. No defender contribution. Jumped onto one of the arrow carts and helped to get the attackers away. No defender contribution.

 

So basically only join wvw if you are in a group and only if you plan on attacking objectives. Few changes in the game has pissed me off as much as this. 

[scureuil.4052]

simply don't give the bonus XPM reward if there is only repair of the walls. But give back the old defense repair event for people trying to defend

[Matty.1234]

4 hours ago, Aury.1367 said:

Find a server that fits your needs. There are plenty of nighttime servers around.

Paying for that, leaving my friends and guild on my server, and making my server even more unbalanced. I really don't feel good about that.

 

What would fit my needs is getting participation for participation, whether I win or am run over by a zerg of 40.

[Grim West.3194]

The rewards were too good for repairing. Really good for the ease of the activity.

 

But they should have just nerfed the rewards, not eliminate them. Bit of an over reaction imo.

[Johje Holan.4607]

4 hours ago, Vulkan.1375 said:

Finally the wall repairers have no more rewards (Mark Shard) And that's a good thing. The effect of this decision had a quick and effective impact. The queues have disappeared or are much shorter. There are less trolls, less bs in teamchat. Only good news. Ty Anet.

So less people playing WvW is a good thing?  Seems like backwards thinking to me.  We need more people playing - and trying to defend in - WvW, not less.  I don't like the people who waste supplies needlessly repairing but if its between a healthy population including wall repairers and an unhealthy population, I'll take the wall repairers any day.

[Zok.4956]

15 hours ago, LordHT.8297 said:

As far as I've tested, you don't get credit unless you kill someone during defense.

And sometimes you get not credit even if you kill someone during defense. 

I guess this is buggy for some time, but nobody noticed it in the past because they got the defense event credit from repairing afterwards

 

[Doggie.3184]

People who attack keeps/towers need a tag on them or something that they're attackers in that Event and give credit if you kill them regardless of where they are or at least if they're inside the keep/tower's border. The radius for defense kill credit is really small and even less chance you'll get credit if they flee too far before killed. It seems credit isn't given unless they breach the fort and you kill them when they're inside it.

I've killed players who are outside of the walls attacking it with siege and then destroyed their siege and don't get defense credit. Not fixing this may create behavior where no one defends till they breach the fort and are inside it.

Sad cuz I'm 736/750 on Stopped Them Cold and seems like it'll be countless hours to finish that small amount at this rate :x

Edited March 15, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Pifil.5193]

1 hour ago, Zok.4956 said:

And sometimes you get not credit even if you kill someone during defense. 

I guess this is buggy for some time, but nobody noticed it in the past because they got the defense event credit from repairing afterwards

 

 

Apparently you have to kill someone who killed one of the guards or who actually knocked down a gate or wall. If they haven't got WxP for their role in the attack then they're not counted as attackers.

 

Of course they might not count as attackers anyway due to bugs.

[Hesione.9412]

I've come a bit late to a defence event where the enemy have been booted out of the tower, helped kill them just outside the tower, and did the most damage to the siege (apparently no-one else went looking for it), which was catas up against a wall, under the bridge to the lord. No defence credit because the defend timer was gone by the time I was there.