teleport, gaurd and thf

[Eddbopkins.2630]

its time they get a fair change. teleporting threw walls and solid objects with out line of site on targets makes the game feel like a cheaters paradise.

[Bewt.9258]

As a guard main my hot take is that I'd like to see JI gutted. Imo a lot of Meditation skills are crutches and holding the whole profession back (as in they could and should buff other skills but not while JI and RF remain so dominant). They should half the distance, and or require LoS like OP suggests. Or give it the untamed treatment.

[ArthurDent.9538]

In my humble opinion no LoS ports are fine so long as they have a small cast time (such as new unnatural traversal and phase traversal) to prevent precasting big burst skill then porting in right at the end of the cast. But people have been bitching about PT for years even though ground targeted ports have way more general utility being useful for disengage, engage, or general map mobility vs. pretty much exclusively engaging in fights.

[Crab Fear.8623]

2 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

its time they get a fair change. teleporting threw walls and solid objects with out line of site on targets makes the game feel like a cheaters paradise.

ok, so waht should ele lose as a sacrifice to basically end their existence along side of guard and thief?

Choose wisely, it basically needs to make them unplayable.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.8623 said:

ok, so waht should ele lose as a sacrifice to basically end their existence along side of guard and thief?

Choose wisely, it basically needs to make them unplayable.

Earth shield. But ele doesn't have things that allow it to go threw walls. Sword 2 or 3 whatever it is should get the same los treatment but that's on one spec. Not every single encounter like thf and gaurd. But you are just trying to be antagonistic rather then constructive.

[Sereath.1428]

Giving ports a cast time just like Phase Traversal and Unnatural Traversal would be more than fair. And thats it, just that change.
Instant teleports is what allows you to bypass the drawbacks of other skills, such as long casting times.

You also cant use teleports if you are CC'ed and they have a cast time.

Ground targeted ports can remain the same, ground targeted , the cast time change would be more than enough.

Edited April 2, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[aymnad.9023]

I find some answers a bit ridiculous. Here is what I thought when ranger got hit on its blink.

Why can other still ... which is a point you mostly address. Fair enough

Why is it fine for some professions to be able to blink while cced or keep the blink + cast combos? (example: ele)

Why is it fine to have blink with a cast followed by a free effect like a cc or a damage skill? (example : rev sword)

You can never have all skills equals on everything. Hit a category and others suddenly become unfair.

Edited April 2, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Crab Fear.8623]

10 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Earth shield. But ele doesn't have things that allow it to go threw walls. Sword 2 or 3 whatever it is should get the same los treatment but that's on one spec. Not every single encounter like thf and gaurd. But you are just trying to be antagonistic rather then constructive.

I don't think this whole thread serves a purpose other than making certain encounters easier for yourself at the expense of viability of two other classes.

[Lighter.5631]

no 1200 range teleport please

i think 600 range teleports can be perfect.

[Bazsi.2734]

4 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

no 1200 range teleport please

i think 600 range teleports can be perfect.

Yes please, I want to be god on my longbow ranger, 1500+ range pewpew with 600 range teleports sounds like perfection.

[Dreams.3128]

Comparing the ele teleport when Mes got a whole kitten skill that blinks them from 1200, is a stunbreak, and can go through floors. Meanwhile ele tele got nerfed twice over the years, lost the stunbreak feature, and is on a longer cooldown. I'm pretty sure its shorter range prevents it tping to the same places that Mes or whatever other class has a proper tp.

Do y'all even look at skills when you compare classes? (And no that is not to defend ele as a whole, but that one particular skill. The fact I have to add this is dumb in its own right.)

Anyways, ports that basically break LoS should've been fixed years ago and yet its still here. Rev was the most noticeable one (even though Guard's JI combo exists), but due to people begging to keep them around for some reason, we still have them. Personally any and all tps should be cleaned up/fixed so it could free some classes and have them receive proper tweaks.

[aymnad.9023]

7 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Comparing the ele teleport when Mes got a whole kitten skill that blinks them from 1200, is a stunbreak, and can go through floors. Meanwhile ele tele got nerfed twice over the years, lost the stunbreak feature, and is on a longer cooldown. I'm pretty sure its shorter range prevents it tping to the same places that Mes or whatever other class has a proper tp.

Do y'all even look at skills when you compare classes? (And no that is not to defend ele as a whole, but that one particular skill. The fact I have to add this is dumb in its own right.)

Anyways, ports that basically break LoS should've been fixed years ago and yet its still here. Rev was the most noticeable one (even though Guard's JI combo exists), but due to people begging to keep them around for some reason, we still have them. Personally any and all tps should be cleaned up/fixed so it could free some classes and have them receive proper tweaks.

Hello,

I could be wrong but it feels like this message is directed at me since I am almost the only one mentioning ele’s blink in this context of a suggestion of a straight nerf to guard and thief (maybe made the 1st of April if NA and getting a concerning amount of support).

If it was me and you really want to discuss then please quote me or add my tag, otherwise sorry for tagging you.

Edited April 3, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[shion.2084]

Stealth and ports and invulns should come with a subsequent fixed period of time under which power and condition damage are decreased.   So on coming out of stealth(port and invlun) you suffer a debuf of 1000 power and condi damage for 4 seconds.

This would stop the cheese no line of sight tanks, it would stop the 10K true shot from stealth, the ranger hunters signet opening from stealth, the will bender port and poop, the Soul beast port and tail swipe stuff.  Oh and the scrapper, "surprise, here's some CC and AOE death for you".

Choice to use ports/invluns/and inis, should be strategic for positioning and tactics, but not as a gank method.

Edited April 3, 2023 by shion.2084

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

We're really out here like "what can we remove next to make the game less fun/dynamic"?

[Myror.7521]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 remove weapons and gain us a Stick instead. Omega balanced Game. xD

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 remove weapons and gain us a Stick instead. Omega balanced Game. xD

People will literally go "anything but stick vs stick is cheating/unbalanced, [insert mechanic that makes it possible to play the class in interesting ways] is holding the class back" 

then go "why is nobody playing?" when they get what they want. 

React. If you cant react, play a bunker instead of forcing everyone else to move slower/not surprise you. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shao.7236]

You're ignoring the fact that those teleports need a target regardless. There is no escape potential without another target unlike AoE ports which goes anywhere in a valid path.

LoS by default is only because you have to manually aim, not because the skill can't, if it didn't have that pre requisite you'd be happy to use it the same way.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Shao.7236

[Eddbopkins.2630]

2 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Stealth and ports and invulns should come with a subsequent fixed period of time under which power and condition damage are decreased.   So on coming out of stealth(port and invlun) you suffer a debuf of 1000 power and condi damage for 4 seconds.

This would stop the cheese no line of sight tanks, it would stop the 10K true shot from stealth, the ranger hunters signet opening from stealth, the will bender port and poop, the Soul beast port and tail swipe stuff.  Oh and the scrapper, "surprise, here's some CC and AOE death for you".

Choice to use ports/invluns/and inis, should be strategic for positioning and tactics, but not as a gank method.

I think it could be something like a damage reduction while stealthed. Like 25%-50% reduction to outgoing condition and power damage. Just when you're stealthed though it dissapears once you come out, no lingering side effect. Less damage from an invisible  deaths judgment. Less damage from an invisible condi bomber. True shot isn't so much a problem cuz the projectile it fires isn't invisible its a bright blue arrow so with good skills and awareness dh is avoidable but teleport traps was something thats was annoying when they did big kitten damage. What isn't avoidable is a  invisible mesmer doing a 25k instant invisible attack on classes that have 11k hp. Stealth is something to help initiate or disengage in a fight I feel. Not end a fight befor the oppent can even square up. 

[aymnad.9023]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

You're ignoring the fact that those teleports need a target regardless. There is no escape potential without another target unlike AoE ports which goes anywhere in a valid path.

LoS by default is only because you have to manually aim, not because the skill can't, if it didn't have that pre requisite you'd be happy to use it the same way.

This is exactly why I said the moment you nerf one category they will feel cheated. The people making those suggestions purposefully ignore how many handicaps they will give. 

 

If I take my previous example of elementalist's blink(it could be mesmer or thief or whatever you want) vs the untamed version of guard and thief :

LoS VS No LoS -> So they are still strong right?

Ground target VS target needed -> more restricted mobility / less escape

Instant Vs cast time -> Instant can use it while stunned and to prepare / keep casting skills while casters have nothing and wait to follow up.
 

And even if later you also nerf the ground targeted blinks to have a cast time all the skills will still not be equal.

Why would you want to pick a blink with a cast time that makes you wait and asks you to follow up when some professions have blinks with an additional free effect to force a dodge or help secure a kill?

 

Nothing can be 100% the same because every profession is different. If they want a change, it either has to be for everybody or give an additional effect to compensate.  (edit) Since there is no mention of other professions then I guess cc, non damaging condi, damage (if animation), unique effects (like damage boost), boon rip will be fine but this is not the idea I gather from the first few posts.

Edited April 3, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[jdawgie.1835]

8 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

This would stop the cheese no line of sight tanks, it would stop the 10K true shot from stealth, the ranger hunters signet opening from stealth, the will bender port and poop, the Soul beast port and tail swipe stuff.  Oh and the scrapper, "surprise, here's some CC and AOE death for you".

Dying to these tactics mean your not paying attention to the game. Its super obvious when people disappear there gearing up for big damage. 

WB = Watch CDs on used skills. Time your engagements. use the mini map.  Youll avoid this or be able to respond to it.

True Shot = LOS when stealth happens. You will know stealth happened even far away because they disappear of your mini map.

Scrapper = Dying to sneak gyro 5432 combo on scrapper is the equivalent to trolling yourself. It happens to all of us. However its on use that it happened. Mis plays in pvp should be punishing. 

And for the the lols im gonna throw in walking into DH Dragon Trap is also a meme. Look at the floor. 

We will never be perfect at this but that's the point. PvP is about capitalizing on mistakes and pre-emptive defense. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[Lighter.5631]

On 4/2/2023 at 7:36 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

Yes please, I want to be god on my longbow ranger, 1500+ range pewpew with 600 range teleports sounds like perfection.

wouldn't be much of a problem, with everybody crapping out tons of projectile hate nowadays.

also are you saying ranger feels like a god when fighting a warrior?

[Bazsi.2734]

13 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

wouldn't be much of a problem, with everybody crapping out tons of projectile hate nowadays.

also are you saying ranger feels like a god when fighting a warrior?

Warrior was designed to be viable without teleports. The rest obviously wasn't. What is your point?

[shion.2084]

1 hour ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Dying to these tactics mean your not paying attention to the game. Its super obvious when people disappear there gearing up for big damage. 

WB = Watch CDs on used skills. Time your engagements. use the mini map.  Youll avoid this or be able to respond to it.

True Shot = LOS when stealth happens. You will know stealth happened even far away because they disappear of your mini map.

Scrapper = Dying to sneak gyro 5432 combo on scrapper is the equivalent to trolling yourself. It happens to all of us. However its on use that it happened. Mis plays in pvp should be punishing. 

And for the the lols im gonna throw in walking into DH Dragon Trap is also a meme. Look at the floor. 

We will never be perfect at this but that's the point. PvP is about capitalizing on mistakes and pre-emptive defense. 

Oh you right.. I should watch for the non line of sight teleport from a level below me behind a wall.

[Dreams.3128]

19 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Hello,

I could be wrong but it feels like this message is directed at me since I am almost the only one mentioning ele’s blink in this context of a suggestion of a straight nerf to guard and thief (maybe made the 1st of April if NA and getting a concerning amount of support).

If it was me and you really want to discuss then please quote me or add my tag, otherwise sorry for tagging you.

Imma be real with you chief, I didn't even read if it was you being the only one that mentioned ele teleport or not. I was skim reading since I was at work and bored out of my mind. Didn't mean to seem like some sort of targeted offense, I am just more wondering why is the ele tp being brought up when its probably the most nerfed one out of all of the tps. (And personally I still don't get why they nerfed the stunbreak part of it given the fact mes has a direct almost 1:1 skill outside having a bigger range and actually being able to get to certain tp spots, porting through floors, and I think maybe one or two walls.)

Edited April 4, 2023 by Dreams.3128

[aymnad.9023]

5 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Imma be real with you chief, I didn't even read if it was you being the only one that mentioned ele teleport or not. I was skim reading since I was at work and bored out of my mind. Didn't mean to seem like some sort of targeted offense, I am just more wondering why is the ele tp being brought up when its probably the most nerfed one out of all of the tps. (And personally I still don't get why they nerfed the stunbreak part of it given the fact mes has a direct almost 1:1 skill outside having a bigger range and actually being able to get to certain tp spots, porting through floors, and I think maybe one or two walls.)

Ok, thank you for your answer🙂