Celestial Gear needs to go, these builds are unfun and boring to fight against as well as to play.

[Sereath.1428]

Having close to two ascended sets equipped at the same time is indeed funny:
You in Celestial with 5751 total stats vs the poor mfer running berserker/marauder with 3302-3610 stats.

Actual circus

[Luthan.5236]

I think it would be hard for them to remove gear only for WvW - since it uses the PvE gear. For PvP it is much easier to make tweaks. (And they often did change available stats there.) Since people put resources into getting that gear and use it for PvE as well ... they can not remove it completely just because some people dislike it.

They'd have to make a new system - with separate WvW gear. Or disabling that stats (giving it other stats when joining the WvW map or setting stats to 0 for that type of gear) ... which would need a lot more work. And since they have more important stuff to do ...

Just getting used to it and changing your play style accordingly ... might be the best and most realistic option.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Luthan.5236

[Player.2475]

18 hours ago, cyberzombie.7348 said:

This, having builds that can have both high damage and sustain has been a problem since vanilla. but they weren't as common, mobile, or boon-heavy up until PoF rolled out.

Though granted the expansion also introduced anti-support specs like spellbreaker, scourge, and deadeye as an attempt to keep things in check, but that's history.

Well, can't really do much with these "anti supports" when they can only strip 1-2 boons every 10-15 seconds and the average EoD spec can kitten out 10 of them every 8 seconds.

Seeing as Anet basically nerfed sigil of absorption into the ground after EoD was released, they don't want you to be able to remove anyone's boons anyway.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Player.2475

[Widebody.5071]

18 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Having close to two ascended sets equipped at the same time is indeed funny:
You in Celestial with 5751 total stats vs the poor mfer running berserker/marauder with 3302-3610 stats.

Actual circus

Does it not cost the same to craft either type? And what's the difference between someone in soldiers and someone in berserker/marauder? I believe people are triggered because others are catching up to them. If not in skill then in armor, food and utilities. That's how warrior got all screwed up, " it's too easy to play, it's unfun, Heavy armor should be slow, too much stab., they shouldn't have condition damage...". So many whiny, entitled people.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Widebody.5071

[Hotride.2187]

2 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Does it not cost the same to craft either type? And what's the difference between someone in soldiers and someone in berserker/marauder?

No, celestial is actually pretty expensive to craft and/or to buy (e.g. 2x or 3x the price of zerker). Though this is not the topic of the thread.

Quote

I believe people are triggered because others are catching up to them. If not in skill then in armor, food and utilities.

"catching up to them" lol, the people who have that sort of mentality are already playing cele

[prototypedragon.1406]

Honestly just scrap all the boons and bring back the retaliation boon make it's duration max of 5 seconds in terms of world versus world. Then slowly adjust / add back more boons and balance then from there and decrease durations across the board to make them more skill based/more timing based to make the correct moment of using them more valuable and increase the ability to bait out enemy forces to waste theirs early in false pushes to provide more tactical options. And with boons becoming more rare and important along with providing more counter ability since boon removals are not liked, let them fall off like air escaping a balloon. Kinda like in the old days where boons did not always determine the battle becoming a over inflated balloon and there were far less important boons. But granted boons were increased as a carry tool to decrease the skill gap amongst players instead of encouraging them to try to improve themselves through learning different strategies or build designs to further increase their potential in the creation of their own builds regardless of them being meta or not. But that being said the whole thing about gw2 is about having the ability to design any builds that you want, but if your build works a way you feel comfortable with but it does not work due to unupdated or  unbalanced abilities/ untouched or observed, or skills is it necessarily the new players fault in terms of choosing that said profession or the traits or stats or runes or sigils ? When it is the creators of those said designs that left them go unchecked for months even years? Yes and no. At the same time image what it would take to balance every single possible stat combination on top of runes and sigils infusions food enrichments, coupled with each class has its own weapons that in some cases can be combined through dual wielding , couple that with trait lines weapon skills  damage of specific skills and utilities. Followed by the fact each class has multiple traits lines and functionalities at times there is only one word for having to do that all at once which is insanity.  Granted for a game being called guild wars2 we don't really see any guild wars right?  Even so many still play it. I myself am a warrior main and have been around since launch, after the balance of 2020  even with the slight buffs as a warrior I still feel left in the dark when it comes to balance since hammer and mace had their damage drained from them and most of their skills still hit at max 15 damage even though they imitate heavy blows, even so they cannot remove or damage stability as it is buried behind other boons regardless of sigils nor especs (spellbreakers), a Frontline that has limited access to mild seconds of stability with little or if any access to cover boons to hide its precious ones behind( stability and protection).

[Widebody.5071]

15 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

No, celestial is actually pretty expensive to craft and/or to buy (e.g. 2x or 3x the price of zerker). Though this is not the topic of the thread.

"catching up to them" lol, the people who have that sort of mentality are already playing cele

The topic is celestial's impact on the game which seems to not have gotten any traction until just recently. It may have always been there but it's really ramped up nowadays. I can't help but wonder why is that? Did someone lose their advantage, are they trying to screw over other's participation in the game mode or are they really that triggered cause someone else is playing their best honest game without any tricks.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Widebody.5071
spell check

[Widebody.5071]

14 hours ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

Honestly just scrap all the boons and bring back the retaliation boon make it's duration max of 5 seconds in terms of world versus world. Then slowly adjust / add back more boons and balance then from there and decrease durations across the board to make them more skill based/more timing based to make the correct moment of using them more valuable and increase the ability to bait out enemy forces to waste theirs early in false pushes to provide more tactical options. And with boons becoming more rare and important along with providing more counter ability since boon removals are not liked, let them fall off like air escaping a balloon. Kinda like in the old days where boons did not always determine the battle becoming a over inflated balloon and there were far less important boons. But granted boons were increased as a carry tool to decrease the skill gap amongst players instead of encouraging them to try to improve themselves through learning different strategies or build designs to further increase their potential in the creation of their own builds regardless of them being meta or not. But that being said the whole thing about gw2 is about having the ability to design any builds that you want, but if your build works a way you feel comfortable with but it does not work due to unupdated or  unbalanced abilities/ untouched or observed, or skills is it necessarily the new players fault in terms of choosing that said profession or the traits or stats or runes or sigils ? When it is the creators of those said designs that left them go unchecked for months even years? Yes and no. At the same time image what it would take to balance every single possible stat combination on top of runes and sigils infusions food enrichments, coupled with each class has its own weapons that in some cases can be combined through dual wielding , couple that with trait lines weapon skills  damage of specific skills and utilities. Followed by the fact each class has multiple traits lines and functionalities at times there is only one word for having to do that all at once which is insanity.  Granted for a game being called guild wars2 we don't really see any guild wars right?  Even so many still play it. I myself am a warrior main and have been around since launch, after the balance of 2020  even with the slight buffs as a warrior I still feel left in the dark when it comes to balance since hammer and mace had their damage drained from them and most of their skills still hit at max 15 damage even though they imitate heavy blows, even so they cannot remove or damage stability as it is buried behind other boons regardless of sigils nor especs (spellbreakers), a Frontline that has limited access to mild seconds of stability with little or if any access to cover boons to hide its precious ones behind( stability and protection).

I agree with you 100% and it all started with someone coming on forums complaining about hammer trains, then warrior speed, then Condi. damage of warriors to only balloon into what we have now. What we had was taken away and given to others while anything we received was a half-kitten version of someone else skill. Why do we have push back as a melee while the casters have pulls?

[Widebody.5071]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:46 AM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Out of interest, what would you consider the right builds?

 

On 5/6/2023 at 1:41 PM, Yunari.9065 said:

 

But cele is op and the most broken thing atm in WvW roaming. And CMC and his robin still don't want to look at it because they think it is fun for the game to have some cheap hulahup in the game.

To be honest this sounds like a bunch of gaslighting to me, people has been complaining about boon balls and the pirate ship meta for years.  Maybe, just maybe this is their answer to that play style. I for one am glad we have it, I'm no e-specs pro but I do my thang and with the help Cele unfortunately I've found that folks get really pissed off because they can't kill you in one or two shots.

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

 

To be honest this sounds like a bunch of gaslighting to me, people has been complaining about boon balls and the pirate ship meta for years.  Maybe, just maybe this is their answer to that play style. I for one am glad we have it, I'm no e-specs pro but I do my thang and with the help Cele unfortunately I've found that folks get really pissed off because they can't kill you in one or two shots.

People don't get pissed because they can't kill you...people get rightly pissed because you can kill them in return! If you want to run a super tanky build to troll people or whatever...that's fine, good for you, but that should be the end of it, you should not be able to go toe to toe and win against somebody who instead decides to invest in offensive builds to end the fight fast.

Willbender, harbinger, catalyst...too much kittening dmg for the sustain they can have.......it's stupid design and the proof is...3/4 of people "roaming" atm are willbenders and catalysts ...coincidence? 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

it's stupid design and the proof is...3/4 of people "roaming" atm are willbenders and catalysts ...coincidence? 

3 of 4 people are Willys and Cats? I roam on most classes. That said I am not finding most others on just these 2 classes. Maybe this is a region/server thing?

Edited May 9, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
corrected punctuation, expanded potential impact area

[MarzAttakz.9608]

47 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

3 of 4 people are Willys and Cats? I roam on most classes. That said I am not finding most others on just these 2 classes. Maybe this is a region/server thing?

30% Willbenders, 15% Harbingers, 20% Soulbeast or Druid, 5% Warriors, 10% Thieves, 10% Catalyst or Weaver, 5% Virtuoso, 5% Herald or Vindicator that's mostly what I'm seeing.

Far fewer Catalysts after the nerfs. Still plenty Willbenders and Rangers. EU T5.

[Widebody.5071]

7 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

People don't get pissed because they can't kill you...people get rightly pissed because you can kill them in return! If you want to run a super tanky build to troll people or whatever...that's fine, good for you, but that should be the end of it, you should not be able to go toe to toe and win against somebody who instead decides to invest in offensive builds to end the fight fast.

Willbender, harbinger, catalyst...too much kittening dmg for the sustain they can have.......it's stupid design and the proof is...3/4 of people "roaming" atm are willbenders and catalysts ...coincidence? 

 

Offensive builds should not feel like they're privy  to anything special just because they run an offensive build like being all bite and no bark. If that's not some way out entitled mindset I don't know what is. How is trying to stay in the fight or tank some monsters trolling? Isn't that what the "offensive build is attempting to do troll folks and when they can't win they run off and come back with a crowd of similar killer builds and a buffer? I thought I was getting away from that in this game folks running around looking for a buff or engaging when they only have a buff.

[Hotride.2187]

11 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

The topic is celestial's impact on the game which seems to not have gotten any traction until just recently. It may have always been there but it's really ramped up nowadays. I can't help but wonder why is that?

Cause cele got concentration and expertise on top. If you would actually read those topics, you'll see this mentioned a lot. As well as eod specs utilize it even better than the pre-eod specs. Though it was a problem even before eod.

[Widebody.5071]

4 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Cause cele got concentration and expertise on top. If you would actually read those topics, you'll see this mentioned a lot. As well as eod specs utilize it even better than the pre-eod specs. Though it was a problem even before eod.

Sorry... But like I said it's no different than all the other broken specs in game the only difference is I get to use this one. You know the old adage when in Rome do as the Romans do. If they don't like the reciprocity of that, what can I say, I'll wipe a tear away and pray for them.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Widebody.5071

[Hotride.2187]

43 minutes ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Sorry... But like I said it's no different than all the other broken specs in game the only difference is I get to use this one.

I.e. you abuse cele and its fine for you. All good, no need to write comment upon comment upon comment. No need to look for excuses.

Doesn't make it less broken. If you feel other builds are broken, make topics about them - there are plenty. For conquest there even are adjustments to attempt to balance things. Wvw is of course, wvw; nothing will change for the better, the studio is set on the boon vomit course (I assume, because they think wvw players are pve players).

[Dawdler.8521]

9 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Doesn't make it less broken.

If Anet today made only Berserker give you 4000 power instead of 1400 or whatever, you can be sure that people would come in here and say "well achtually marauder needs to be buffed too!" instead of thinking about what just happened.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Hotride.2187]

10 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If Anet today made only Berserker give you 4000 power instead of 1400 or whatever, you can be sure that people would come in here and say "well achtually marauder needs to be buffed too!" instead of thinking about what just happened.

Don't really understand how this is related to the thread here.

But I'll assume you are talking about the total stats argument. I don't have problems with the total stats that cele gives you, remove concentration and expertise and I'll be fine with it. The condis will wear off faster, the boons won't be perma. It will still give a lot to the right build, just not as much.

If you are trying to say that there are ridiculous people on the forum, that doesn't change sentiments I see at duel spot about cele. Every good duelist I've talked to either considers it abuse material or a crutch for bad players. Anyway, the best part about threads like this is, people who don't want to fight cele don't - they just disengage or altogether don't roam. Its the people who roam and still defend it that have to deal with it; do 10+ min 1v1s or die 3v1 to it, abuse it yourself, have your power trips, think that you are the best player in the game, etc., suit yourself. It makes wvw roaming boring, prolonged garbage, but if its your thing by all means, go for it.

I play conquest and it suits me fine. Bad players die like bad players should, good players have room to try out silly builds and so on.

[Widebody.5071]

49 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I.e. you abuse cele and its fine for you. All good, no need to write comment upon comment upon comment. No need to look for excuses.

Doesn't make it less broken. If you feel other builds are broken, make topics about them - there are plenty. For conquest there even are adjustments to attempt to balance things. Wvw is of course, wvw; nothing will change for the better, the studio is set on the boon vomit course (I assume, because they think wvw players are pve players).

Last time I made a suggestion we ended up with a one second self stun to justify a 3 second stun so no thank you. Foremost I'm not abusing Celestial I'm using it to keep from being abused. Folks ain't nice in that game mode so I use any advantage I can nowadays. Boon meta may have been their answer to people Complaining about melee at the beginning of the pirate ship meta. 

It's people like me that gives you tier 3 keeps, forts and garrisons, While you're out chasing the other server. Maybe "bad players" and defenders should leave WvW to the good players. Don't need legendary armor (too bright), gankers, people complaining about "get off the wall, berating commanders who's trying their best and more then likely the complainers probably belong to the other server. The majority of problem in this game started with someone coming to the forums complaining about much of nothing.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Widebody.5071
spell check

[Widebody.5071]

This thread has gotten a little salty everyone pissed at "bad players." So does that mean all new players are bad because they get to use mounts? The egos in this thread is crazy, if celestial is so bad and unfair make yourself some and deal with the "bad players". If you can't do that you're pretty much just hating on someone for the sake of hating.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The problem isn't the stat set, its the EoD specs that are able to over leverage the set that are the problem. CMC and the others made them too bloated with functionality.

[Bizgurk.5639]

18 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The problem isn't the stat set, its the EoD specs that are able to over leverage the set that are the problem. CMC and the others made them too bloated with functionality.

Agreed. They were designed to be able to do Power Damage, Condition Damage and/or Boon Support all in one spec. They were created with Pve in mind without thinking what would happen in WvW.

[Hotride.2187]

39 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The problem isn't the stat set, its the EoD specs that are able to over leverage the set that are the problem. CMC and the others made them too bloated with functionality.

Ah yes, pre-eod every profession but war and thief had cele builds (ranging from good to broken). Now also war and thief have cele builds. But its eod fault? You can of course say harb and cata are more broken than the previous broken cele builds. But pretending cele was fine before eod?

1 hour ago, Widebody.5071 said:

This thread has gotten a little salty everyone pissed at "bad players."

No idea why you keep trying to place reactions where there are none. No one cares about bad players in this game, at most some try to educate them. No one is "salty", "pissed" or "triggered".

Edited May 9, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Ah yes, pre-eod every profession but war and thief had cele builds (ranging from good to broken). Now also war and thief have cele builds. But its eod fault? You can of course say harb and cata are more broken than the previous broken cele builds. But pretending cele was fine before eod?

No pretending needed, because it was fine. There are professions that can over leverage the stat set and those that cannot. The problem lies in the traits and skills of the professions that are able to over leverage the set: see original core cele ele.

[Hotride.2187]

6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No pretending needed, because it was fine. There are professions that can over leverage the stat set and those that cannot. The problem lies in the traits and skills of the professions that are able to over leverage the set: see original core cele ele.

cele weaver/tempest, boonbeast (druid was also decent), grenade scrapper, mirage, firebrand (dh could also work), renegade

"it was fine"