ANet wants celestial gear to do what it currently does because they directly profit from it being strong.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Just popping in, if this causes anet to do anything or at least something could be simple as adding a random pebble in  wvw wise then argue away so our overlords notice us 😉 still waiting on that cornerstone just like a dungeon update.

[Hotride.2187]

6 hours ago, Atticus.7194 said:

I just want to say the hyperbole on this post is WILD. You are trying so hard to exaggerate for effect it's kind of astonishing. Half of the things you're saying are so problematic are in fact the benefits of runes and sigils giving wild synergy more than they are the effect of celestial gear but you haven't said a peep about those at all. You've just hyperfixated on this one thing that you have decided is the problem because its convenient and fairly accepted. 

Ah yes, hyperbole, sure.

Well if its a rune and ... sigil (lol) ... problem then you have no issue with a cele nerf / removal? Cause its not the source of the problem apparently. Everyone is happy then, players who blame cele (every duelist I've talked to) and the players on the broken builds too, since the builds still work (allegedly).

And if by some small chance you are right, they can always revert the change and look into other changes (in the unlikely event they want to fix small scale). Whats the problem?

Amazing how many people here go "nerfing cele wont fix the problem", well then just nerf it and see how that goes? Cause sure af they wont rebalance all the professions and runes.

[Dawdler.8521]

37 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Amazing how many people here go "nerfing cele wont fix the problem", well then just nerf it and see how that goes? Cause sure af they wont rebalance all the professions and runes.

This is perfectly fine by me and I hope we apply it on the whole. Since 10 out of 10 thieves agree that the thief is the slowest, lowest damage worst roamer/duelist in existance, then deleting the thief would actually be a favor to them so they can play much stronger classes. And with celestial being so useless the deletion of that will also make them much stronger. Its like a double whammy buff for thieves!!!

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Cele build that wins against anything non-cele 1v1 and draws against cele, do you prefer this wording?

So same question, how many different builds do you run? Now how many are Cele? This is like defending MAG and I don't play on MAG when I ask questions people don't want to see. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

38 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

This is perfectly fine by me and I hope we apply it on the whole. Since 10 out of 10 thieves agree that the thief is the slowest, lowest damage worst roamer/duelist in existance, then deleting the thief would actually be a favor to them so they can play much stronger classes. And with celestial being so useless the deletion of that will also make them much stronger. Its like a double whammy buff for thieves!!!

The funny part is the people posting what they see as legit issues with Cele using the steal underwear + ? = profit thread as the discussion point. Comedy gold right there. Yup ANet using Cele to increase gem sales, direct path to profit there.

[Hotride.2187]

43 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So same question, how many different builds do you run? Now how many are Cele? This is like defending MAG and I don't play on MAG when I ask questions people don't want to see. 

I run 5 builds, 1 support the rest power. I've replied to you already I've played cele once and got bored in the first 5 min. Its stupid broken. And I'll reply the same again, I dont need to play a build to know why and how its broken when I fight it. I've fought all the cele builds I mentioned earlier and I've seen them dueling at duel spot, against other power builds and against cele builds. Roaming too, obviously, but at duel spot the players are on average (a lot) more competent.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Feels like people just use cele as a scapegpat when they can't roflstomp people's builds. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I run 5 builds, 1 support the rest power. I've replied to you already I've played cele once and got bored in the first 5 min. Its stupid broken. And I'll reply the same again, I dont need to play a build to know why and how its broken when I fight it. I've fought all the cele builds I mentioned earlier and I've seen them dueling at duel spot, against other power builds and against cele builds. Roaming too, obviously, but at duel spot the players are on average (a lot) more competent.

Just to be clear, you set your power builds to Cele and felt that they did better? I tried that as well and they were far less efficient to roam with. Mind you I am not saying there are not Cele build options but replacing them on the power ones did not work as well. Same with some of the Condi ones. Cele is jack of all trades and for the build to use it it needs that mix in it's setup as well to best be able to utilize it. But just taking Cele and switching the gear on a setup that was made for Power or Condi didn't just add a sudden increase to the builds value in roaming, the build has to lose options it had to be able to use those stat which means it was a different build and lost efficiency in how it was made. So does Cele have a place, yes, does it work everywhere, IMO no. To me they have been adding more Elites to Core classes that didn't have hybrid builds and changing trait lines so that there are more options outside of either just power or condi which is why we see more Cele options as we saw more Trailblazer and Condi builds with HoT. We also have more options for support now and heal builds. I guess to spin the question a bit since I don't run full heal, are the healer builds switching from Minstrel to Cele and feel they are better healers for it?  Again my support builds aren't full healers so can't say there.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

7 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 I guess to spin the question a bit since I don't run full heal, are the healer builds switching from Minstrel to Cele and feel they are better healers for it?  Again my support builds aren't full healers so can't say there.

It depends. Small-scale under 15 I'll switch to full Celestial Tempest. It doesn't heal anything like dedicated Minstrel's or feel as tanky either but at least I can contribute a 50/50 split between damage and healing.

Anything larger or facing tougher groups I'm going full heals.

That said I've also started removing some Celestial in lieu of Cavalier's, Dragon's, Assassin's or Marauder's mix to try finesse the stat spread I'm aiming for. Most trinkets remain Celestial as stat filler to more easily reach certain thresholds. Is it easier to just go all in Celestial? Yes. Is it more effective. I don't believe so.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, MarzAttakz.9608 said:

It depends. Small-scale under 15 I'll switch to full Celestial Tempest. It doesn't heal anything like dedicated Minstrel's or feel as tanky either but at least I can contribute a 50/50 split between damage and healing.

Anything larger or facing tougher groups I'm going full heals.

That said I've also started removing some Celestial in lieu of Cavalier's, Dragon's, Assassin's or Marauder's mix to try finesse the stat spread I'm aiming for. Most trinkets remain Celestial as stat filler to more easily reach certain thresholds. Is it easier to just go all in Celestial? Yes. Is it more effective. I don't believe so.

Again, I run a lot builds, but zero are full heals, so Cele is not BiS for full heals in your gameplay? Its better at tagging but worse at healing? I do run some Cele on builds but they are built out in that manner to do some of all but master none. But since I don't run full heals I can speak to that. Hence a logic check.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

52 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Again, I run a lot builds, but zero are full heals, so Cele is not BiS for full heals in your gameplay? Its better at tagging but worse at healing? I do run some Cele on builds but they are built out in that manner to do some of all but master none. But since I don't run full heals I can speak to that. Hence a logic check.

From an Ele perspective (as my main) full Minstrel's with Monk runes, + Boon duration and Outgoing healing sigils and one outgoing healing stacking sigil, heal food and heal + boon duration utility is the most raw healing I can pump out. Minstrel's gives the toughness and vitality a light armor class needs to aggressively position together with the boon duration and healing power to keep people standing. Since CC and Aura duration aren't affected by stats their usefulness is not gear dependent.

Celestial on the other hand provides enough of everything else to be more than just an off healer and tagger but needs that 25 might to really make an impact. Expertise and Condi damage are wasted to a degree (due to build and weapons).

I've tried various ways to reach thresholds like 2800 armor, 18k health, 75% Crit, 225% Crit damage, 25% boon duration, 500 healing and above 2000 Power without 25 might (these being my own arbitrary goals) but cannot do so without using some Celestial sadly.

It's Jack of All to a degree but that has always been Ele and the reason why Celestial was the first full ascended armor and weapon set I made before they added the extra stats...

EDIT: To add further fuel to the fire, this whole nerf Celestial debate cannot be taken seriously without addressing the underlying differences in toughness and vitality present between classes.

Edited April 20, 2023 by MarzAttakz.9608

[Hotride.2187]

17 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Just to be clear, you set your power builds to Cele and felt that they did better? I tried that as well and they were far less efficient to roam with. 

Yeah you are just trolling at this point, I'm not gonna keep answering. This thread is about cele builds, not scraping the barrel for nonsense arguments in favor of cele. Next you'll go "I used heal weapons and my dmg wasnt good". Yeah, the game works how the game works.

[Cuks.8241]

On 4/19/2023 at 5:06 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Just to be clear, you set your power builds to Cele and felt that they did better? I tried that as well and they were far less efficient to roam with. Mind you I am not saying there are not Cele build options but replacing them on the power ones did not work as well. Same with some of the Condi ones. 

I think noone advocates that just slapping cele on an existing build makes it better. 

A hybrid build is needed. But those hybrid builds that can utilize cele gear are just insanely powerful. And most classes can utilize such builds. 

I would agree that a good cele build just shrugs to almost anything power or condi specialised and the goal is pretty much to stalemate other good cele builds. 

There are some decent power builds out there but pure condi like trailblazer? I really dont see them anymore. Basicaly cele have become the annoyance trailblazer used to be only in mega overdrive and much easier to utilize for more classes. So it makes it much harder to balance via class changes. 

This is purely dueling pov, maybe small scale roaming but definitely not squad play. 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

If you can't kill someone in exotic gear, even if it's cele, you definitely have an l2p problem.

[Burnfall.9573]

 

"Here is just an average skill clicker running around on a fair and balanced stat type not one shotting anyone at all. its very accessible to new and veterans alike its totally fine BUT! it cant be good at one thing remember so some of these fights take longer than if i was on a power build, honest 😕 most of these fights i wasn't below 50% health and that's only through PURE SKILL!! i swear nothing to do with me have 3k toughness and LOTS of health on all the classes"