ANet wants celestial gear to do what it currently does because they directly profit from it being strong.

[RazieL.5684]

all in all if you have issues with celestial gear it's skill issue...

[Polar.8634]

There is no reason to defend cele stats unless you are someone who can only play having stat advantage over other. So it funny to see ppl claiming skill issues on those who point on cele degen. 

I have no problem swapping all my gear to any stat i want, that's not the point. Point is, cele stats make most fights attritional stat fight while i prefer skill fight.

[Widebody.5071]

1 hour ago, Polar.8634 said:

There is no reason to defend cele stats unless you are someone who can only play having stat advantage over other. So it funny to see ppl claiming skill issues on those who point on cele degen. 

I have no problem swapping all my gear to any stat i want, that's not the point. Point is, cele stats make most fights attritional stat fight while i prefer skill fight.

It most be a popular stat combination, if not folks would'nt be using it. It's not fair to advocate against something because "you" think the person using it is unskilled. That's how warrior got screwed around, then the complainers had the nerve to come back around bragging about how they screwed up warrior and the warrior players don't play any longer. Berserker's is broken, Marauder's is broken, Minstrel's is broken...

Now that there's something to counter the other broken specs here comes the nurf squad. I'm still waiting for rapid fire Condi. and CC counterplay for melee based players, or at a discontinuance of the stacks we have deal now.

My apologies for rambling on like that.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Widebody.5071

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:29 AM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Pretty much the title. 

It would be one thing if they just buffed the set to being as strong as it is by adding the concentration and expertise, but ANet also changed the gear you get from the Lv80 boost from the gem store from full soldiers to full exotic celestial. It went from being a relatively rare set with a time gate to being available to anyone with a credit card within 6 months of the set being buffed.

Sure. Anet wants it to be strong so players new to a class can do well on it and experiment with different builds on a single gear set. I can accept that, that's a good thing for many reasons. That said, while ANet directly profits from this move in terms of gem/expac sales it's hard not to see it as an intentional act on ANet's part, much like the elite specs from the latest expac being left bonkers OP for years on end until the next one comes out.

It doesn't matter what you think about celestial stats, or what I think about them for that matter. It's clear that celestial stats are intentionally being left as strong as they are. The boon spam is also being left as it is for the same reason. The balance the game had in vanilla is gone, this is the new normal. The sooner people realise that and accept it, the happier they'll be. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Level-80_Boost

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/95447-game-update-notes-may-11-2021/ - The patch celestial was changed to include concentration and expertise.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/102830-game-update-notes-october-5-2021/ - The patch the Lv80 boost was changed to give every class celestial gear. 

 

 

Or maybe there's more to the game than just WvW?  They probably didn't want new players boosting to 80 and getting wrecked in open world/story content because the game gives them crappy soldier stats.  With celestial you're going to survive better and deal more damage, especially if you're using the kind of borked builds new players usually come up with.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 4/13/2023 at 5:52 AM, nucklepuckk.1805 said:

Counterpoint: With the exception of one notable specialization, Celestial is actively detrimental in endgame PvE settings. Anyone who shows up to raid with celestial stats is doing it wrong. Sorry WvW-ers. The set from the boost is there so new players can run around the open world and be okay without any knowledge of talents or skills. It's 100% not malicious and it's a bit ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Open world isn't instanced PvE with full boons and a healer.

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

There is no reason to defend cele stats unless you are someone who can only play having stat advantage over other. So it funny to see ppl claiming skill issues on those who point on cele degen. 

I have no problem swapping all my gear to any stat i want, that's not the point. Point is, cele stats make most fights attritional stat fight while i prefer skill fight.

Sorry a tankier player didn't allow you to one shot them I guess? So skill is who has the fastest connection to the server and who can drop their rotation fastest it seems. Again, I guess we need to go back to making WvW into Pong.

[RazieL.5684]

8 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

There is no reason to defend cele stats unless you are someone who can only play having stat advantage over other. So it funny to see ppl claiming skill issues on those who point on cele degen. 

I have no problem swapping all my gear to any stat i want, that's not the point. Point is, cele stats make most fights attritional stat fight while i prefer skill fight.

There is no reason to attack cele stats unless you are someone who can only play degen berserker/marauder builds and once they fail 1buttoning their target now have no idea what to do and die...

 

Had a few pretty nice duels last night against a willbender who had no problems 3shotting me in my full cele + prot build if i didn't avoid his damage properly so idk what you're crying about, clearly skill issue...

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

I think that people that complain about celestial stats are the ones that run it themselves, but simply lost in fights against other cele builds and now they qq.
There's a lot of builds that are simply too strong and need very niche counter to kill them. Celestial isn't that great in long run, it still can get 1tapped by some random Gunflame from 1.5k range or some Grenade scrapper from stealth or other gibberish.
It is strong on some classes and mediocre on everything else. Nerf boons to make them "short-lived-boosts" as they should be and suddenly it's meme at most, but we all know you won't nerf boons.

[Polar.8634]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Sorry a tankier player didn't allow you to one shot them I guess? So skill is who has the fastest connection to the server and who can drop their rotation fastest it seems. Again, I guess we need to go back to making WvW into Pong.

There are Valkyrie, knight and other stats to you pleasure. They don't give extra 750 stats but tanky enough for you i hope

[Polar.8634]

7 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

most be a popular stat combination, if not folks would'nt be using it. It's not fair to advocate against something because "you" think the person using it is unskille

I said before and say now, it's extra stats this set has which is unfair, not a combination perse. What you call someone who uses unfair advantage? Unless everyone uses cele, which almost happened at this point .

 

7 hours ago, Widebody.5071 said:

Now that there's something to counter the other broken specs here comes the nurf squad

This itself is broken what are you talking. There are like 3-4 broken power builds out there and around 15 broken cele builds if not more how is it even comparable.

[Polar.8634]

50 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

There is no reason to attack cele stats unless you are someone who can only play degen berserker/marauder builds and once they fail 1buttoning their target now have no idea what to do and die...

Well nop, FYI there are tons stat combo set out there, i would like to use them too. 

Problem is, because cele has so much more raw stats, there is no reason to use them anymore 

It's ok for you not to know about them, newer players probably only know cele or berserker 

[RazieL.5684]

30 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

Well nop, FYI there are tons stat combo set out there, i would like to use them too. 

Problem is, because cele has so much more raw stats, there is no reason to use them anymore 

It's ok for you not to know about them, newer players probably only know cele or berserker 

oof so you have no argument and you go calling me a new player... you just lost all credibility in this discussion...

 

Guildjen is one of the sites that tries to keep up with the meta providing builds for people to play... lets check the "best" according to them from top to bottom

 

Thief:

• Power D/P Daredevil – Marauder
• Power Rifle Deadeye – Marauder
• Power S/D Daredevil –Marauder

 

Ranger:

• Power “Sic ‘Em!” Soulbeast – Marauder
• Condition Immobilize Druid – Trailblazer

 

Engineer:

• Power Grenade Holosmith – Berserker
• Celestial Scrapper – Celestial

 

Mesmer:

• Condition Ambush Mirage – Trailblazer
• Celestial Virtuoso – Celestial
• Power Ambush Mirage – Marauder

 

Elementalist:

• Scepter Catalyst – Marauder
• Celestial Daggers Catalyst – Celestial
• Hammer Catalyst – Marauder

 

Necromancer:

• Celestial Harbinger – Celestial
• Power Reaper – Marauder

 

Warrior:

• Power Spellbreaker – Berserker
• Power Axe/Hammer Core – Berserker

 

Guardian:

• Power Willbender – Dragon
• Power Trapper Dragonhunter – Marauder

 

Revenant:

• Power Vindicator – Marauder
• Celestial Renegade – Celestial

 

Tally:

Marauder/Dragon - 11
Berserker - 3

Celestial - 5
Trailblazer - 2

 

Seems to me Marauder/Dragon is in for a heck of a nerf! Crusader? Wanderer? Viper? Grieving? The majority of meta builds are Marauder yet here we have bad players crying they can't fight something they can't kill within a couple of seconds... And don't try to weasel out with "i want to use those stats" because even if cele was nerfed that wouldn't change the meta because the meta is WAY more Marauder than condi builds together... You have literally no ground to stand on in this argument other than you can't kill a cele build because you are bad...

 

Here's a tip for the newer players: if you cleanse a cele build's damage they do 0 damage even if you had 10000 stacks of condis on you with 1 cleanse you remove ALL the stacks meanwhile the cele still receives proper 5-10k crits from your power build...

 

git... gud...

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by RazieL.5684

[Zyreva.1078]

3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Sorry a tankier player didn't allow you to one shot them I guess? So skill is who has the fastest connection to the server and who can drop their rotation fastest it seems. Again, I guess we need to go back to making WvW into Pong.

1 hour ago, RazieL.5684 said:

There is no reason to attack cele stats unless you are someone who can only play degen berserker/marauder builds and once they fail 1buttoning their target now have no idea what to do and die...

Instead of repeating the same random nonsense over and over again, how about you explain how a stat disparity of almost 75% is somehow balanced?

Edit: Build sites like guildjen or metabattle are not indicative of what's meta or not. Just a bunch of random builds that differ greatly in effectiveness. All of those power builds expect maybe DE (because SA) get farmed hard by most cele builds.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Hotride.2187]

10 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

git... gud...

Now pick any of the power builds and 1v1 any of the cele builds. DD thief, power mesmer and power berserker I'd be most interested to watch. Against you, I'd like to see a cele cata or harb.

You clearly have gotten gud, you'll have no problems right? Then, after the cele player has mopped the floor with your power build, come back on the forum.

[RazieL.5684]

Just now, Zyreva.1078 said:

Instead of repeating the same random nonsense over and over again, how about you explain how a stat disparity of almost 75% is somehow balanced?

nice argument just call it "nonsense" and be done with it...

 

let me explain to you how numbers work...

 

if you have 10000 stats and you have a gear set that gives 1 point into all of them you have a gear set with 10000 stats on it

meanwhile berserker has has 3300? by your logic the one with 10000 should be insanely more stronger than berserker but let me tell you how coefficients work... the more stats you have concentrated into something the better it gets... let me tell you how much difference the healing power on cele does to my heal - if i use full celestial heal for 3610 if i use full berserker i heal for 3290 so the 320 more healing is what killed you? granted my other heal heals me for more from 6524 it becomes 7163 and since people cry about the concentration so much it gives me a 1s more prot it becomes 4 from 3... if you are losing 100% of your fights with your enemy left with 500hp because of that 1s of prot i would almost give you a point in this argument... but we all know you don't...

 

so please now hit me with your nonsense so i can just shoot it down again...

[RazieL.5684]

23 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Now pick any of the power builds and 1v1 any of the cele builds. DD thief, power mesmer and power berserker I'd be most interested to watch. Against you, I'd like to see a cele cata or harb.

You clearly have gotten gud, you'll have no problems right? Then, after the cele player has mopped the floor with your power build, come back on the forum.

i never said i was any good... i only said that the bad players like the ones crying about cele need to get good...

 

i mostly play FA weaver it's very enjoyable to me even though it lacks in cleanses a lot and generally struggles being outnumbered i sometimes get very satisfying results... i have fought plenty celestial builds, sometimes i win, most of the time i don't... but i realize it's because of my lack of ability and weakness to conditions of my build instead of crying about it as if it's some sort of cheating that the other person chose something (that is available to everyone) that has the edge over my build...

 

do you know what also has the edge over my build? trash thief players that stealth port on me and take 50-70% of my health with 1 button... having 0 counter to it because most of my abilities are targeted... meaning i can't cleave around me like a warrior or engineer, and even if i happen to try and counter the thief if they stealth again they can just heal to full in stealth with me having almost 0 chance of following up on it making stealth a super hard counter to my build you might even say it's damage immunity just because of the way my build works... but that changes if i go with cata hammer and have plenty of AoE attacks including auto attack that cleaves... see? improvise... adapt... overcome... git gud...

 

but then guess what happens with my hammer build once i face a ranger...

 

i understand the idea that people want to make their own builds and be able to mix and match whatever because i also find the fun in that... but that is never going to be optimal and everyone will get mowed down by marauder builds...

 

p.s using 1-2 pieces of another statset like soldier doesn't mean you are using soldier...

Edited April 15, 2023 by RazieL.5684

[Hotride.2187]

6 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

i never said i was any good... i only said that the bad players like the ones crying about cele need to get good...

No, no. You told players here to git gud, no backing out of this. You are telling others this is a skill issue, but admit you are bad yourself? How tf do you know then that its a skill issue?

I've spent 100s of hours at duel spot, have seen any duel you can see. Have 1v1ed a shitton of builds. And I tell you, cele is broken. Plain and simple. No skill issue, just OP stats that break small scale and 1v1. The only way around this for power builds is bringing supports. Cele builds themselves are both support and dps. No other game I've played has such nonsense.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Hotride.2187

[Zyreva.1078]

27 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

nice argument just call it "nonsense" and be done with it...

What else should i call factually incorrect statements?

27 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

if you have 10000 stats

We don't have 10000 stats ...

27 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

and you have a gear set that gives 1 point

and cele grants a lot more than just one point for each.

27 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

the more stats you have concentrated into something the better it gets

Not always. A mix of healing, toughness and vitality is a lot better than putting all points into one of them for example.

And hybrid damage is a lot harder to counter than pure power or pure condi, and defensive stats allow for more agressive play, so cele often ends up with better sustained dmg output than almost everything else.

Zerk has better burst ofc, but that becomes pretty irrelevant if the opponent doesn't die to the initial burst (because of tankyness or simply avoiding the dmg). And then there are plenty of stat combinations that don't even have zerk burst. So what about those?

27 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

let me tell you how much difference the healing power on cele does to my heal - if i use full celestial heal for 3610 if i use full berserker i heal for 3290 so the 320 more healing is what killed you?

Your heal skill is your only source of healing? Bad build then. Most cele builds have multiple sources of healing and all of them benefit from cele. On my cele ranger i have about 30% more total healing with cele than without healing power and i guess it is similar for other cele builds. I also take 30% less dmg and have more hp - together that's a huge increase in survivability - before even factoring in boon uptime!

27 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

since people cry about the concentration so much it gives me a 1s more prot it becomes 4 from 3...

You only have that one boon application in your build? Don't think that's even possible ...

In reality almost everything farts boons left and right nowadays and cele gets up to 40% more of all that sweet juice ... totally negligible, yep.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[RazieL.5684]

14 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

No, no. You told players here to git gud, no backing out of this. You are telling others this is a skill issue, but admit you are bad yourself? How tf do you know then that its a skill issue?

I've spent 100s of hours at duel spot, have seen any duel you can see. Have 1v1ed a shitton of builds. And I tell you, cele is broken. Plain and simple. No skill issue, just OP stats that break small scale and 1v1. The only way around this for power builds is bringing supports. Cele builds themselves are both support and dps. No other game I've played has such nonsense.

conveniently ignored my whole post... yeah your input is worthless at this point...

[Polar.8634]

55 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

git... gud...

if by git gud you mean copy paste build from guild jen, then ye, i am amazed by ur gudness, how dare i argue with someone who know all builds from guild jen lol

[RazieL.5684]

13 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

What else should i call factually incorrect statements?

you should call it your post...

 

13 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

We don't have 10000 stats ...

you don't say... i wonder what that word "if" stands there for in my sentence... it was just to show how your logic is broken... why am i even bothering to explain stuff to people who can't comprehend a basic hypothetical...

 

16 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Not always. A mix of healing, toughness and vitality is a lot better than putting all points into one of them for example.

 

it depends how much points you put into them, if you put too few then it doesn't make a difference if the toughness will lower yoru damage received by 6% or 7%...

 

18 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

And hybrid damage is a lot harder to counter than pure power or pure condi, and defensive stats allow for more agressive play, so cele often ends up with better sustained dmg output than almost everything else.

that's the point of hybrid damage so you don't get easily countered but cele does primarily condi damage which gets countered pretty easy, not only by avoiding it but also by cleanses... you can't cleanse power damage that you didn't avoid... *cough* Marauder is OP *cough*

 

21 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Zerk has better burst ofc, but that becomes pretty irrelevant if the opponent doesn't die to the initial burst (because of tankyness or simply avoiding the dmg). And then there are plenty of stat combinations that don't even have zerk burst. So what about those?

aaaaah FINALLY we come to the crux of the matter... i love when people say it themselves at the end... you DO want to 1shot people and just cry that you can't because cele allows people to survive your 1 button... not that cele will stop a ranger or a virtuoso from 100-0 someone on it's own but lets ignore that for your benefit... so, i provided tips in my previous comment, get some cleanses...

 

25 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Your heal skill is your only source of healing? Bad build then. Most cele builds have multiple sources of healing and all of them benefit from cele. On my cele ranger i have about 30% more total healing with cele than without healing power and i guess it is similar for other cele builds. I also take 30% less dmg and have more hp - together that's a huge increase in survivability - before even factoring in boon uptime!

no, it's not my only source of healing... i only gave an example of how much it actually changes... if your ranger gets 30% more healing i guess ranger needs some nerfs to it's coefficients... doesn't sound like a cele problem... and i already stated that the 1sec uptime on my boons is not what kills you...

 

29 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

You only have that one boon application in your build? Don't think that's even possible ...

In reality almost everything farts boons left and right nowadays and cele gets up to 40% more of all that sweet juice ... totally negligible, yep.

again, it's not my only source, i am only showing what the difference is... as you said most people fart boons out anyway... but the duration is significantly lowered in pvp/wvw and 40% of ot 3 seconds is not the same as 40% of 15 seconds... but you have to correct your mindset here... i never said that cele was WEAK! all i'm saying is that cele is not this OP game breaking thing that you make it out to be...

[RazieL.5684]

15 minutes ago, Polar.8634 said:

if by git gud you mean copy paste build from guild jen, then ye, i am amazed by ur gudness, how dare i argue with someone who know all builds from guild jen lol

once again nice argument... sorry i didn't make a quick poll across the whole community to sniff out the meta builds down to the infusion slots and i used a popular source... how could i have been so negligent...

[Hotride.2187]

37 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

conveniently ignored my whole post... yeah your input is worthless at this point...

You expected something else after your "git gud" and then "ah no I'm not that gud"?

[Zyreva.1078]

4 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

you don't say... i wonder what that word "if" stands there for in my sentence... it was just to show how your logic is broken...

I'm very well aware what you want to point out and for all we know that 10000 stat gear is actually very much op. But it is hard to work with something fictional you just made up, because in your head it isn't op ofc. So how about sticking to actually existing numbers? Makes much more sense to work with those. Unless you don't like how those factual numbers contradict your stance, right? But that's not my problem.

4 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

it depends how much points you put into them, if you put too few then it doesn't make a difference if the toughness will lower yoru damage received by 6% or 7%...

Ofc, and as i showed, the difference with cele is quite significant.

4 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

that's the point of hybrid damage so you don't get easily countered but cele does primarily condi damage

Depends on the build and matchup, some cele builds absolutely deal more more power dmg.

4 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

not only by avoiding it but also by cleanses... you can't cleanse power damage that you didn't avoid...

Well, that's a big advantage of cele over pure condi builds.

4 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

you DO want to 1shot people and just cry that you can't because cele allows people to survive your 1 button

No i don't. And it's not cele that prevents oneshots. Again, unrelated nonsense, that appears to be your only argument ...

 

4 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

no, it's not my only source of healing... i only gave an example of how much it actually changes... if your ranger gets 30% more healing i guess ranger needs some nerfs to it's coefficients... doesn't sound like a cele problem... and i already stated that the 1sec uptime on my boons is not what kills you...

You are just trying to pick single instances while completely ignoring the whole package - when it clearly is the latter that makes cele so strong.

4 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

all i'm saying is that cele is not this OP game breaking thing that you make it out to be...

You've yet to bring an argument for that ...

[RazieL.5684]

2 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

You expected something else after your "git gud" and then "ah no I'm not that gud"?

i advocate for people to stop complaining about a non-issue and reflect on themselves and change their strategy instead of relying on a 1shot as EVIDENTLY they do...

last night i watched a thief complain how overpowered ele is after he missed 3 backstabs and 2 steals in a single duel... so yeah, git gud, it's what i'm trying to do...