Cata and strapper overperforming, lets nerf ranger again.

[Copyright.9082]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:21 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

Yes the untelegraphed oneshots were really something good. Once you learned how to press 3 buttons at once, randomly tailswipe+mauling people to death in teamfights just displayed superior skill all around.

 

Precasting hiltbash, cuting hiltbash animation with unatural traversal, swapping pet, executing maul and a pet attack (wolf or riverdrake) is a 5 step combo which could be even more complex depending on what you added to it. The port was untelegraphed, like every numerous instant port in the game, but the combo was not uncounterable, which is why you would win untamed vs untamed by either saving your elite (stab) or stunbreaks to nullify the spike. We shouldn't reason in terms of "untelegraphed" but rather in terms of counterability.

 

"You can't see it in teamfights" is not an argument. There are so much things you can't clearly see coming in teamfights except for degens like us who played this game too much. Any stealth or porting class should be deleted if we develop your argument fully. 

 

And now you have an unblockable + superspeed which btw outside of being a braindead skill which requires no setup and no thinking has no visual tell at all except for the signet icon below your hp bar. 

 

 

That's for the untelegraphed part. 

 

The oneshot is the only problem untamed has and its' still not fixed.  It simply does too much damage. Ferocious symbiosis and vow of the untamed needed to be nerfed by 20/25 % to start with, with further adjustments if that wasn't enough. 

 

But now, the arenanet solution is going to be to destroy the port, eventually destroy the signet and nerf the damage so that untame becomes completly useless, when they should just have kept the port and reduced the damage modifiers. 

 

Also, the 5 additionnal seconds on signet of the hunt indeed changes nothing. 

Also, the meta is not aids because of untamed, it's aids because of kitten like tempest. 

 

 

 

 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

1200 range pew pew ruins any game they are in.  I wouldn't mind them getting a nerf like the further you are the less damage your 1200 range pew pew does. 

[Bazsi.2734]

32 minutes ago, Copyright.9082 said:

"You can't see it in teamfights" is not an argument. There are so much things you can't clearly see coming in teamfights except for degens like us who played this game too much. Any stealth or porting class should be deleted if we develop your argument fully. 

What oneshot from stealth combo is still in the game? There were numerous(I played them all towards the end of the PoF era, when I got fed up with bunkers being able to outsustain everything), but none of them are able to oneshot anymore. Same with all the teleport+burst combos. "My argument" was developed fully in the 2020 february patch.

Well.. except for Untamed. It was an anomaly that was reigned in only recently. This is just about being consistent. You either ruin the damage on the skills doing the oneshot, or you space them out with casting times. A-net choose the latter.

32 minutes ago, Copyright.9082 said:

And now you have an unblockable + superspeed which btw outside of being a braindead skill which requires no setup and no thinking has no visual tell at all except for the signet icon below your hp bar. 

Ehm... the unblockable + superspeed IS the setup. Also saying there is no visual tell except the visual tell is... okay? You act like you made a point here but... I can't see it. Maybe I'm just dumb.
 

32 minutes ago, Copyright.9082 said:

The oneshot is the only problem untamed has and its' still not fixed.  It simply does too much damage. Ferocious symbiosis and vow of the untamed needed to be nerfed by 20/25 % to start with, with further adjustments if that wasn't enough. 

Nope, if you have to run up to someone in melee, or teleport+wait out an aftercast to initiate, that's something that can be reacted to. If that's followed up by a oneshot-worty damage burst, getting caught in it is the fault of whoever is brain-afk with an untamed in their face.

 

32 minutes ago, Copyright.9082 said:

Also, the 5 additionnal seconds on signet of the hunt indeed changes nothing. 

Oh so we agree. It looked like we were arguing. 😄

Edited April 20, 2023 by Bazsi.2734

[Burnfall.9573]

On 4/18/2023 at 11:57 AM, Vamp Rook.7835 said:

 

Just saying that Unnatural Transversal and now Signet of the Hunt nerfs are not justified on a meta where rangers are underperforming because of projectiles reflect/destroy spam from overperfoming specs.

 

So you have a 11 Years Toxic Broken Mechanic which can have Permanent uptime, which can be exploitable with a skill, to pass through through walls and gates and with the addition of enabling it to +1 shot out of it.

 

With equipped with that mechanic; Ranger Profession can not have Permanent uptime with it nor can use it to exploit walls nor gates

 

And another Profession equipped with signets can +1 shot multiple enemies using range.

 

Ranger Profession above all Professions identity;  identity also revolves in Range attack with hitting multiple target from afar, can not +1 shot multiple enemies 

 

Warrior Profession rifle are allowed to +1 shot multiple enemies at range, Thief Profession for 10 years including beta, are intentionally allowed to exploit Stealth Mechanic to gain advantage to break the game design without consequences.

 

Ranger Profession - Druid whose identity and role including healing and support, is replaced, exceeded and stolen with and by non - healing Professional roles identity and with  non -supportive Professions roles identity

 

So my question to Anet is this;

 

What are your reasoning for allowing other Professions to replace, exceed and steal other Profession roles and their Identities?

This Is The Root Cause Of Design and Balance,

You Allow Professions To Hijack Other Profession Roles, You Allow Professions To Rob And Strip Other Professions Identities!!

At Will!!

Edited April 20, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[apharma.3741]

21 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I honestly don’t like this excuse very much. In principle a computer can compute all computable functions which covers the whole of just about anything possible in the universe. A language that is Turing universal, which I’m sure gw2 is coded with, means they could literary “just program it” as the solutions to a vast majority of their problems aside from computational complexity issues…this definitely not being done of them.

 

in particular there is nothing special or different between using 1-2s or 100 to 1000s in coding…it just doesn’t work like that. There’s no “maybe it’s how their coding works” excuse to use here

 

now if you said 9,223,372,036,854,775,808…that would be a different story…and would totally be “a problem on the backend”

Spoken like someone who has little practical experience with complex interdependent systems or custom made engines from the dark age of technology that the GW2 engine is from. One of the biggest problems for GW2 in WvW was the number of calculations required when they bumped a load of skills from 5 targets to 10 targets and it made the game mode utterly unplayable at times. You have to think of hardware constraints and costs. Think outside of your box at other view points.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

15 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Except they didn't cast maul. They'd cast hilt bash into the port which is much less obvious and makes sure you are instantly stunned after the port. Also it could be done through walls and other terrain, mind you. It was just cheese. It's really not that hard to see. Though I do think the port needs something else rn. It feels too low value to warrant a slot atm.

Either they maul in the middle of nowhere (so I dodge) or they stun me with hilt bash... but before they cast maul, I usually have time to do something. Maybe it's my mesmer bias showing, since F3 saved me quite a while, but I think valk core ranger by design was much more tedious to face.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

8 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

Spoken like someone who has little practical experience with complex interdependent systems or custom made engines from the dark age of technology that the GW2 engine is from. One of the biggest problems for GW2 in WvW was the number of calculations required when they bumped a load of skills from 5 targets to 10 targets and it made the game mode utterly unplayable at times. You have to think of hardware constraints and costs. Think outside of your box at other view points.

thats literally the field I studied for a couple years (complex systems and computational complexity) I’m telling you that you are straight up wrong.

 

I also know exactly the problem you are referring to with target cap change and that is a computational complexity problem. Those problems are different then the one you were talking about. In fact the thing you talked about is not a problem at all. 

Just a little bit of insight. Alan Turing’s contribution to the world (practically the inventor of computation theory) was that you don’t need to build different machines to compute different problems…that a computer with change in initial condition can compute any computable problem hence the reason why we create different software on the same hardware, the same machine.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[apharma.3741]

Spoken like someone who has little practical experience with complex interdependent systems or custom-made engines from the dark age of technology that the GW2 engine is from.
I am aware of Turing's view point, however you fail to consider real world constraints on the software and hardware, which is what happens when you study a lot but don't actually get practical experience.

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 4/20/2023 at 1:00 PM, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

1200 range pew pew ruins any game they are in.  I wouldn't mind them getting a nerf like the further you are the less damage your 1200 range pew pew does. 

Sir
ranger LB has about 1900 range.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Sir
ranger LB has about 1900 range.

Nope, it can be more like 2100.

I had ran a test of this on stream and come to find out, that 1500 range is only considering someone is in a straight line on flat terrain from you. The game then functions realistically with the idea that if you are on higher ground, say a tower or keep, and are firing down at someone, the range can go up to around 2100. The messed up thing is, it somehow functions exactly that same way if you are shooting up at someone, goes like 2100 range. So the programming is designed to fire to 1500 range on the horizontal axis away from where you are on the horizontal axis, but completely ignores where the target is on the vertical axis, whether above or under you, which allows for messed up range gains. This actually makes sense when you're above someone firing down, but makes absolutely no sense at all when you're firing up at something.

This only works with the auto 1s that arc though. The other attacks function differently and don't get such range gains, if any at all.

But yeah, this is where messed up longbow range comes from. This also works on any bow on any class with auto 1s that arc, or any attack that arcs. It's just that other classes have substantially shorter distance that the Ranger's natural range and it's usually never noticed or complained about.

[Leonidrex.5649]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Nope, it can be more like 2100.

I had ran a test of this on stream and come to find out, that 1500 range is only considering someone is in a straight line on flat terrain from you. The game then functions realistically with the idea that if you are on higher ground, say a tower or keep, and are firing down at someone, the range can go up to around 2100. The messed up thing is, it somehow functions exactly that same way if you are shooting up at someone, goes like 2100 range. So the programming is designed to fire to 1500 range on the horizontal axis away from where you are on the horizontal axis, but completely ignores where the target is on the vertical axis, whether above or under you, which allows for messed up range gains. This actually makes sense when you're above someone firing down, but makes absolutely no sense at all when you're firing up at something.

This only works with the auto 1s that arc though. The other attacks function differently and don't get such range gains, if any at all.

But yeah, this is where messed up longbow range comes from. This also works on any bow on any class with auto 1s that arc, or any attack that arcs. It's just that other classes have substantially shorter distance that the Ranger's natural range and it's usually never noticed or complained about.

I did some testing too, and elevation didnt see to make any difference, I know it has easily over 1900 range on flat ground.
and if you shoot up or down doesnt make difference, instead of shoving projectile denial down our throats thats what they should address first.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

14 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Sir
ranger LB has about 1900 range.

That's makes me cry till I laugh my self to death.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:06 AM, apharma.3741 said:

Spoken like someone who has little practical experience with complex interdependent systems or custom-made engines from the dark age of technology that the GW2 engine is from.
I am aware of Turing's view point, however you fail to consider real world constraints on the software and hardware, which is what happens when you study a lot but don't actually get practical experience.

Didn’t wanna start talking about my personal life…but part of my job is to make systems (of many different kinds) for my team as I run an animation studio…man could you not piece it together that I actually do the things that I’ve studied?

 

I’ve created things like global illumination in ancient softwares…along with a bunch of other things to get these software's to look almost as good as current day engines like Unreal Engine or Blender, with no programming.

Global Illumination is a class of algorythms (the same class as ray-tracing) that solves an actual computationally complex problem (the problem of light propagation in a volume.)

The stuff YOU are talking about is actual nonsense. Yes there are physical limitations issues that exist…but the stuff you talked about (differences in using the number 3 on a skill vs number 7 or w.e.) is NOT one of them.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Hotride.2187]

48 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I’ve created things like global illumination in ancient softwares…along with a bunch of other things to get these software's to look almost as good as current day engines like Unreal Engine or Blender, with no programming.

No idea what you are going on about, spaghetti code is spaghetti code. Seems unlikely the +-5 sec changes would be due to spaghetti but you never know. If the choice is between increasing cd to 25s from 20s and investing a month of work to make it 24 sec, any team will go with the former and call it a day. There is endless work to deal with, no one will bother with "physically possible".

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

No idea what you are going on about, spaghetti code is spaghetti code. Seems unlikely the +-5 sec changes would be due to spaghetti but you never know. If the choice is between increasing cd to 25s from 20s and investing a month of work to make it 24 sec, any team will go with the former and call it a day. There is endless work to deal with, no one will bother with "physically possible".

 

My original point before it was derailed, is that "spaghettis code" is an Anet don't know how to design stuff issue, not an issue with technology or limitations, cause in principle (and in practice) in most cases, you can just program it and get gud.

 

Rather, to put it another way, the excuse that Anet gets a pass over something as menially trivial as numerical alterations (like changing damage or something; linear in problem space), which is no where near  "technological limitations" over that triviality is an actual joke to people who design stuff.

 

That excuse is basically uninformed.

 

Now if he said an ACTUAL computationally complex problem, that's different, like how higher target caps cause more calculations exponentially. That is NOT in the same class of problems as "changing a single digit value on a tooltip to another single digit value" and that's WHY people learn computational complexity to begin with, to understand the size of problem spaces.

Edited April 23, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Peter.3901]

Warrior holding 3 on spot, better nerf sharpening stone!11!1!!

[Peter.3901]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:35 PM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Sir
ranger LB has about 1900 range.

What is 1900 range in a world of blinks and blocks?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Peter.3901

[Leonidrex.5649]

34 minutes ago, Peter.3901 said:

What is 1900 range in a world of blinks and blocks?

depends on a class you fight.
If you pew pew warrior from 2000 range he has to use at least 2 dashes to get in range.
power rev has to run for a bit before teleporting, or he teleports and is still out of range to attack.
necro has to facetank good bit while running at you before he makes it in range to even use staff, let alone other weapons.
When you really think about it, having over 1500 range is a big deal, as most classes have about 1200 range teleports/dashes at most.

[Lonecap.4105]

26 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

depends on a class you fight.
If you pew pew warrior from 2000 range he has to use at least 2 dashes to get in range.
power rev has to run for a bit before teleporting, or he teleports and is still out of range to attack.
necro has to facetank good bit while running at you before he makes it in range to even use staff, let alone other weapons.
When you really think about it, having over 1500 range is a big deal, as most classes have about 1200 range teleports/dashes at most.

Well, on most maps it’s fairly easy to LoS. If the enemy team has a player using a long range build, you just gotta keep a track of where they’re at on the map, so you don’t get caught in the open. There’s not a huge amount of areas in PvP maps where LoS isn’t available within some ~600 units at the most.

[Burnfall.9573]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:00 AM, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

1200 range pew pew ruins any game they are in.  I wouldn't mind them getting a nerf like the further you are the less damage your 1200 range pew pew does. 

 

this

As I am also a Ranger Profession main; I completely approve of this. In fact; Range need to be hard nerfed and with strict limitation.

 

1200 Range should only be available and limited only to Ranger Profession. 

 

Warrior Profession Longbow including Staffs range - 1000 Range.

 

Other short range weapons including short bow also should be hard nerfed and limited to 300 range

 

Pulling design mechanics and skills including Thief Profession-Scorpion Wire, should be removed from the game.

 

Being pulled like a yo-yo child game and being attack past 1200 range are the reasons for the game to continued be frowned upon as a clown fiesta, meme game.

 

Just yesterday, in WvW, we had 8 top WoW streaming players in our squad poking fun at the game. Of how the rumors were true that the game is full with 'ludicrous gameplay that even a child can hit 1 key and win fights. Than laughing at how they were being pulled and +1 shot over and over again...laughs" 

 

They kept running back and forth after respawn over and over again, with other players. 

 

Eventually, they got tired of it and logged out. 

 

Once again, the root cause of all of this Toxic mess is that: Profession Roles Are Dead / Nonexistence In Guild Wars 2.

 

Professions Are Playing Each Other Roles And Are Hijacking Each Other Identities Including Each Others Weapons Usages With Breaking Their Barrier Of Limitations!!

Thief Profession, Warrior Profession, Elementalist Profession and Guardian Profession are the worst Offenders at Hijacking and Stealing Profession Roles Including their Identities.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Leonidrex.5649]

4 hours ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Well, on most maps it’s fairly easy to LoS. If the enemy team has a player using a long range build, you just gotta keep a track of where they’re at on the map, so you don’t get caught in the open. There’s not a huge amount of areas in PvP maps where LoS isn’t available within some ~600 units at the most.

true, but you dont play " long range build " you just equip 1 weapon that also functions well in melee range.
on the maps where you can shoot people from 2k range ( spoiler its almost all of them ) you end up having to burn several cooldowns to even interact with the enemy which is annoying. fix the range

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:06 AM, apharma.3741 said:

Spoken like someone who has little practical experience with complex interdependent systems or custom-made engines from the dark age of technology that the GW2 engine is from.
I am aware of Turing's view point, however you fail to consider real world constraints on the software and hardware, which is what happens when you study a lot but don't actually get practical experience.

Heh! Go tell all the crypto evangelists about 'constraints' lmao!

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:00 AM, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

1200 range pew pew ruins any game they are in.  I wouldn't mind them getting a nerf like the further you are the less damage your 1200 range pew pew does. 

Yea let's punish the longbow for being too far away

[Burnfall.9573]

17 minutes ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Yea let's punish the longbow for being too far away

1200 range is the only exception for Ranger Profession

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

13 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

1200 range is the only exception for Ranger Profession

I'm pretty sure ranger longbow is 1500 range. Deadeye rifle is 1200