Greatly increase range of boons pls

[Beast Sos.1457]

Alright, I'm probably going to get a ton of hate for this but so be it. The stack and attack meta needs a shift. It really takes away from the encounters. The whole fight you're either looking at a bosses cheeks or groin. You don't see 80% of whats going on in the fight because you're stuck on the boss. Anyone miss the days of actually playing a ranger at range? I do. Maybe make it so that, when in 10 instanced content (raids, strikes, frac, dungeons) boons are instance wide or greatly increase the range to be able to cover majority of boss platforms/arena. And I get it, part of the reason for stacking is to pump out those heals but there are a decent amount of ranged heals and on top of that us players can run up to our healer if we are getting low (comm will mark healers to make it easy to find them). Stack and attack will still exist and probably still be the meta but at least with increasing the range of boons, one of the initial philosophy of Gw2 combat, which was being able to play any profession the way you want (healer, tank, melee dps, ranged dps) can actually be applied in practice. I wouldn't consider using a ranged build while in melee range for a whole encounter being ranged dps. Theoretically sure. Practically, its evident that its not. 

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Alright, I'm probably going to get a ton of hate for this but so be it. The stack and attack meta needs a shift. It really takes away from the encounters. The whole fight you're either looking at a bosses cheeks or groin. You don't see 80% of whats going on in the fight because you're stuck on the boss.

Adjusting your camera settings (zooming out/greater FoV) will allow you to see more of the fight.

1 hour ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Anyone miss the days of actually playing a ranger at range?

Ranger never really had a good fully ranged build. And stacking for boons, heals and ressing was always a thing and will never go away, even if they would increase boon radius (many support skills already have 300-600 radius and doesn't actually require you to stack right on top of each other btw).

[Beast Sos.1457]

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Adjusting your camera settings (zooming out/greater FoV) will allow you to see more of the fight.

Ranger never really had a good fully ranged build. And stacking for boons, heals and ressing was always a thing and will never go away, even if they would increase boon radius (many support skills already have 300-600 radius and doesn't actually require you to stack right on top of each other btw).

You're right, fov helps see more but it's not only about seeing them but also dealing with them. Theres a lot of encounters where depending on your range from the boss the mechanics are dealt with differently. Either with positioning or your timing of evade. Not only that but its a different experience then fighting in melee range. 

Stacking wasn't always a thing until people started to realise the benefits. If it wasn't for the fact that you gain so much from stacking, it definitely wouldn't be the meta. 300-600 range really isn't giving much at all. If you leave to deal with any mechanic, youre not going to get boons. As long as you gain more from stacking its never going to go away. A meta will never leave until its replaced or nerfed. 

Like I said, the meta will most likely stay the same even if they remove the boon range since healing will still be more beneficial up close. At least with the change, people who want to fight at range can without being a hindrance to their group and getting kicked. It's a win win. I don't see why this can be a bad implementation. Unless you see something wrong with it that I dont?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The stacking meta has always been bad, it basically takes away all but two playstyles (melee DPS and healer), which is completely unnecessary since most fights happen in an enclosed arena anyway.

 

Area of effect boons and heals should just affect your entire party, up to a limit of 1500 range. This is how almost every other game works, and I don't know why ArenaNet was trying to be so original here but I think it had an overall negative effect on the gameplay.

 

Outside of parties (e.g open-world) or in competitive, the range should remain unchanged. It would specifically be a bonus for parties and squad subgroups in PvE only.

Edited May 19, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[zeyeti.8347]

Well if you look at the last endgame content anet put out , stacking/destacking is more and more in it , with increasing numbers of mechanics needing a bunch of the party to literally leave the group for a while , OLC , KO , HT cm .

The good example for me is largos raid encounter (ofc there is the portal strat) but this need you to split in two separate groups and ... yeah you still stacked but as 5 instead of 10.

But giving such an amazing range to boons will alienate the instance content , i can see deimos range strat. coming again , where the tank , the black kite and the Hk do all the work when the dps are far , chilling behind the boss . Going range should be an option when a deadly mechanic occurs (like undead quaggans on ankha).

Many mechanics on encounters happen in melee , but as i said the latest content added tend to make you split sometimes your party.

I am for a larger boon range on some classes only , mecha. obviously doesnt need that , Fb maybe a larger 360* mantra range , tempest overloads boons larger too . But party shared on a 1500 range or higher .. that feel too much and will mostly be used for dpses to go far away from the boss , not doing any mechanics to maximize the dps , and as a support/tank enjoyer i don't want to be the only one to struggle :).

Also a thing like that will largely favor long range classes having near max dps output at 1200 range , virtuoso , pew pew mechanist and ... we could see deadeye rifle not being a niche class , i agree that this one is not bad at all.

Edited May 20, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[The Boz.2038]

Fully agreed, yes.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

9 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Well if you look at the last endgame content anet put out , stacking/destacking is more and more in it , with increasing numbers of mechanics needing a bunch of the party to literally leave the group for a while , OLC , KO , HT cm .

The good example for me is largos raid encounter (ofc there is the portal strat) but this need you to split in two separate groups and ... yeah you still stacked but as 5 instead of 10.

But giving such an amazing range to boons will alienate the instance content , i can see deimos range strat. coming again , where the tank , the black kite and the Hk do all the work when the dps are far , chilling behind the boss . Going range should be an option when a deadly mechanic occurs (like undead quaggans on ankha).

Many mechanics on encounters happen in melee , but as i said the latest content added tend to make you split sometimes your party.

I am for a larger boon range on some classes only , mecha. obviously doesnt need that , Fb maybe a larger 360* mantra range , tempest overloads boons larger too . But party shared on a 1500 range or higher .. that feel too much and will mostly be used for dpses to go far away from the boss , not doing any mechanics to maximize the dps , and as a support/tank enjoyer i don't want to be the only one to struggle :).

Also a thing like that will largely favor long range classes having near max dps output at 1200 range , virtuoso , pew pew mechanist and ... we could see deadeye rifle not being a niche class , i agree that this one is not bad at all.

You can't maximise DPS on ranged builds, they simply don't have the firepower (which is why Power Rifle Mech was nerfed). Your group will always need to be mostly melee, just like any MMO.

[zeyeti.8347]

28 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

You can't maximise DPS on ranged builds, they simply don't have the firepower (which is why Power Rifle Mech was nerfed). Your group will always need to be mostly melee, just like any MMO.

Sorry but if a deadeye power rifle , or a virtuoso condi go full ranged and are full buffed , they have 0 damage lost , and mech pew pew will only loose 15% crit . chance who can easily be solved by changing your runes for eagle runes with a minimal dps loss .

I agree that most classes even when full buffed loose some damage at range with traits , but a new méta "whole area" boon will see only some classes in play .

What about warrior , herald , vindicator , catalyst , ... and all classes who need to go melee . Thats my personal feeling but having the boon go crazy range will create a freaking secured méta for dpses while there will be like 3-4 people dealing with mechanics .

The dps role is already a lazy role on first raids encounters if you think about it , they only deal with heavy mechanics further in the game . This is why cm strikes are a real good done thing , everybody has to deal with mechanics and everybody has to watch his step , take for example Vale guardian ? what do dpses care about ? green area ? overheal ! Red balls ? support push them away ! ah yes they have to watch blue aoe to not get ported , 66% of the mechanics are done by the supports , have you seen teapot going full range on sabetha , completely ignoring half of the mechanics of this encounter ? and not even talking my previous example , deimos , who used to be done ranged , making all the dpses ignore black aoes , pizza strike and mind crush , at least this tactic resumed in a big shortage in dps and more supports to keep the group buffed , but there are literally 3 people doing the job while the 7 others just mash buttons on a semi static target ... even the green mechanic is easily done as you only have 8% chance it goes on the black kite.

It's a personal feeling , i can understand some of you want a new méta and a real use of ranged weapon  , while i just want some tweaks on very narrow boon sharer builds , but certainly not a 1500 range boon aoe ... ranged weapon have use of their range when it is needed and all last endgame encounters really shows it like virtuoso , who is a class who doesnt bench that high , but can pull of an amazing dps because of his fully ranged set and pierce access.

Edited May 20, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Gendalfs.7521]

13 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

while i just want some tweaks on very narrow boon sharer builds , but certainly not a 1500 range boon aoe

No one is asking about 1500, but reasonable increase.

Visual blob is a problem, but theyll adress it with new settings menu (tho tell me, its easier to introduce new menu then increase boon range?)

[Zyreva.1078]

4 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

No one is asking about 1500, [...]

->

On 5/20/2023 at 1:53 AM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Area of effect boons and heals should just affect your entire party, up to a limit of 1500 range.

On 5/19/2023 at 7:25 PM, Beast Sos.1457 said:

boons are instance wide or greatly increase the range to be able to cover majority of boss platforms/arena.

[Cyninja.2954]

On 5/19/2023 at 7:25 PM, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Anyone miss the days of actually playing a ranger at range?

I don't because that was never the case. At least it was never the case for groups which demanded performance going as far as getting rangers (and necromancers) shunned for the entirety of core GW2 instanced content until druid was released with HoT.

Your gripe is not with boon ranges. Your gripe is with more players not being trash tier game play wise and as such having minimal expectations.

You can still play a ranger at range and you will be just as effective as you were in the past (probably even more so than in the past, given the buffs which have gone around). The only issue now is: more player will know where to place your performance at.

On 5/19/2023 at 7:25 PM, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Gw2 combat, which was being able to play any profession the way you want (healer, tank, melee dps, ranged dps) can actually be applied in practice.

1. you are taking the "quote" you are referring to out of context

2. you are changing the meaning of what was said

3. you are adding your own meaning to the context while changing what was said (the hilarious irony here being you are mentioning "healers" when having dedicated healers was most definitely NOT a plan pre release of core, from when this quote stems)

For the gazillionth time: the play how you want quote did NOT mean play anything you want on any build you want for any content you want.

It was a reference to not having specific gear or rewards gated excessively behind specific content (as was custom in other MMORPGs of the time) and as such allowing players to play multiple types of content and still feel rewarded. It was also not a qualification or advice/recommendation of how content should be tackled or how challenging it should be. In my book, any player misusing this quote in 2023 has what ever opinion or issue he calls for automatically disqualified.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Virdo.1540]

Dont forget, healing is also very limited. You would need to increase boons & healing by an massive amount.
Good luck balancing that in wvw

[Beast Sos.1457]

12 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I don't because that was never the case. At least it was never the case for groups which demanded performance going as far as getting rangers (and necromancers) shunned for the entirety of core GW2 instanced content until druid was released with HoT.

Your gripe is not with boon ranges. Your gripe is with more players not being trash tier game play wise and as such having minimal expectations.

You can still play a ranger at range and you will be just as effective as you were in the past (probably even more so than in the past, given the buffs which have gone around). The only issue now is: more player will know where to place your performance at.

1. you are taking the "quote" you are referring to out of context

2. you are changing the meaning of what was said

3. you are adding your own meaning to the context while changing what was said (the hilarious irony here being you are mentioning "healers" when having dedicated healers was most definitely NOT a plan pre release of core, from when this quote stems)

For the gazillionth time: the play how you want quote did NOT mean play anything you want on any build you want for any content you want.

It was a reference to not having specific gear or rewards gated excessively behind specific content (as was custom in other MMORPGs of the time) and as such allowing players to play multiple types of content and still feel rewarded. It was also not a qualification or advice/recommendation of how content should be tackled or how challenging it should be. In my book, any player misusing this quote in 2023 has what ever opinion or issue he calls for automatically disqualified.

You say I'm taking what they said about the way you want to play professions out of context but with no reason why? At least explain why. How is it taken out of context. Give me the context if thats the case.

Support was always part of the plan. Sure the hard healer role wasn't the plan, I should have worded that right but it was always a plan to have the option to go a "support" build that gives out boons and also has burst heal potential. Just not constant healing like your typical healing class. 

Play how you want meant you can play any profession and had the option to play it how you wanted. If you went warrior you could choose to play it as a support class and it WOULD be viable.

Whoever has the opinion of "In my book, any player misusing this quote in 2023 has what ever opinion or issue he calls for automatically disqualified" is automatically disqualified in my books....Especially when they don't explain how it was misused. Why are you even engaging in this topic if my opinion is "disqualified" in your books. You're not in here to have a discussion clearly.  

TBH even if you reply back I'm not going to deal with someone who has their nose up at people. Have a nice life.

[Beast Sos.1457]

11 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

Dont forget, healing is also very limited. You would need to increase boons & healing by an massive amount.
Good luck balancing that in wvw

I agree. What I think is the important part is that your damage shouldn't fall off so hard if you move away from the group. If you can be at range and not take damage then you shouldn't be penalized for it by making your damage lower. If someone needs heal they can always run up to a healer. I don't think healing range should be increased. That would make the game much easier if anything. 

Edit: I suggested for it to be a instanced thing only. For example, raids or strikes. It shouldn't be applied in WvW or the opened world. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Beast Sos.1457

[The Boz.2038]

1 hour ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

It shouldn't be applied in WvW or the opened world. 

Oh so this is a brave new split, PvE vs PvEI (Instanced).

OK, so.. some people *really* have *radical* ideas about this.

All that sane people want is like, doubled radius of most boons, to at least 500, so people literally aren't stacked on top of each other like pogs. This would increase clarity of what the heck is going on, and significantly lessen the size o the cliff for players that are just now entering endgame content.

1500? Yeah, that is absolutely hilarious, sorry.

[Cyninja.2954]

9 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

You say I'm taking what they said about the way you want to play professions out of context but with no reason why? At least explain why. How is it taken out of context. Give me the context if thats the case.

I did, here again:

The context in which they where making these statements was as described earlier: you are not forced into any specific role or content.

The roles you described where not even part of the design back then.

9 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Support was always part of the plan. Sure the hard healer role wasn't the plan, I should have worded that right but it was always a plan to have the option to go a "support" build that gives out boons and also has burst heal potential. Just not constant healing like your typical healing class. 

Not true and this goes against all communication back then. Boons where not as easily permanent. In fact the intial concept was for all classes to co tribute somewhat, with some giving combo fields while others used finishers (most did not have access to both, getting to 25 might was near impossible without blasting). 

Some of the core essential boons today where not even present back then. No alacrity for example and quickness was no boon.

9 hours ago, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Play how you want meant you can play any profession and had the option to play it how you wanted. If you went warrior you could choose to play it as a support class and it WOULD be viable.

No it didn't and this misconception has been haunting this game ever since. See above.

In fact, historically this "Anet said you can play any way I want" was used over and over to justify bad builds, bad game play and even bad team compositions or game balance.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Cuks.8241]

I would harmonise all boons at 600 radius like Herald has. 

Its not that I really dislike stacking meta. Its just that each class has it a little different which can be annoying. And it doesnt really add much to class identity. 

Its really annoying on my fb when there are party members that just always stand outside of range.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 5/19/2023 at 7:25 PM, Beast Sos.1457 said:

Alright, I'm probably going to get a ton of hate for this but so be it. The stack and attack meta needs a shift. It really takes away from the encounters. The whole fight you're either looking at a bosses cheeks or groin. You don't see 80% of whats going on in the fight because you're stuck on the boss. Anyone miss the days of actually playing a ranger at range? I do. Maybe make it so that, when in 10 instanced content (raids, strikes, frac, dungeons) boons are instance wide or greatly increase the range to be able to cover majority of boss platforms/arena. And I get it, part of the reason for stacking is to pump out those heals but there are a decent amount of ranged heals and on top of that us players can run up to our healer if we are getting low (comm will mark healers to make it easy to find them). Stack and attack will still exist and probably still be the meta but at least with increasing the range of boons, one of the initial philosophy of Gw2 combat, which was being able to play any profession the way you want (healer, tank, melee dps, ranged dps) can actually be applied in practice. I wouldn't consider using a ranged build while in melee range for a whole encounter being ranged dps. Theoretically sure. Practically, its evident that its not. 

You never played a ranger at range. Current iteration is more ranged than it ever was. It was almost exclusively melee for a long time except for the gimmick condi shortbow li build

[Wolfshade.9251]

I like the idea of increasing the range of boons and more importantly standardising them across all the classes.

However, from a healer's perspective having your group spread out would be simply awful to heal. You would not be able to run to the healer for heals; by the time you realise you need healing you'd be downed somewhere at max range with nobody bothering to go res you. I see it all the time in newbie groups, soulbeasts at max range getting downed and then asking for res.

[Bakeneko.5826]

14 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I would harmonise all boons at 600 radius like Herald has. 

I'd take even 500 or 400, if it means squad/party doesn't have to fuse into particle storm

[vares.8457]

I actually prefer stacking than having the group standing all over the place.