Research notes :

[Manasa Devi.7958]

23 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Precisely. Which means outright deleting that ascended piece is a better option if you intend to get research notes.

I have a stack of ectoplasm, a stack of anthologies and a stack of intact mosaics sitting next to each other in my storage. When I get an ascended drop, I double click the portable mystic forge conduit in my shared slots, the 3 stacks and the new item. I don't even have to take anything out of storage anymore since the contents were added to the forge menu. Five seconds to make hundreds of notes, if I take my time. Convenience is everything in this game. The opportunity cost of spirit shards doesn't bother me. I already don't know what to do with my gold,  not going out of my way to make more.

[Astralporing.1957]

20 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Only if you don't want research notes for anything

Uh, i think you lost me here. Why would anyone go out of their way to get research notes in any way if they didn't want them?

20 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

or -for some reason- deem anything below the most optimal acquisition price as non-existent. Which is a weird reasoning considering your complaints about not wanting to do stuff because it's too much to do, when it comes to this currency.

It's not even the price that's the issue here - or at least not the price alone. It's it being added on top of how you need to stat-change the stuff in the first place. I mean, you are literally paying here for the privilege to do additional work in order to lose gold. And people here actually advise it as a good choice.

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Uh, i think you lost me here. Why would anyone go out of their way to get research notes in any way if they didn't want them?

You said it would be better to delete that item than get research notes from it. That's false. And that's exactly what I responded to and why I responded with what I did.

9 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's not even the price that's the issue here - or at least not the price alone. It's it being added on top of how you need to stat-change the stuff in the first place. I mean, you are literally paying here for the privilege to do additional work in order to lose gold. And people here actually advise it as a good choice.

What is being added on top of stat-change? The stat change is what makes the price there. And you're saying the price isn't the issue here, but then... you're still talking about price? I don't know what exactly you mean with this response? Or is stat changing is somehow too much work now too?

Edited May 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

41 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You said it would be better to delete that item than get research notes from it. That's false.

Well, you can say "ignore that item". I used the world "delete" just to better illustrate how getting research notes out of it is not a good idea.

41 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And that's exactly what I responded to and why I responded with what I did.

What is being added on top of stat-change? The stat change is what makes the price there.

It is two things. It is a price tag, but it also adds addditional hoops to jump through in regard to actions you have to do. It's "buy this stuff, buy that stuff, buy that other stuff, go to LA or other place with Mystic Forge, throw all that stuff in, get the result and salvage" instead of "buy that one stuff and salvage" (because at 1s per RN, you don't have to craft to get ahead, you can just buy stuff off TP and salvage that and still end with a much better bargain). You are paying to go through additional steps in order to get something you could get cheaper and simpler somewhere else.

Basically, you can get research notes at 1s per RN (and lose the ascended piece), or you can keep that ascended and still get research notes at, say, ~80c per RN (so, significantly cheaper). And the second option is even easier to do.

You can, of course, pick whatever you like, but please, do not come and advise other players that this first option is good. Or defend those that claim so. Because it just isn't.

[Sobx.1758]

28 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, you can say "ignore that item". I used the world "delete" just to better illustrate how getting research notes out of it is not a good idea.

But it is a good idea because it's a quick and easy way to get research notes. Yes, I did comment on the words you were using, when you say "delete", I think it's highly probably you mean "delete" instead of any other word. That said, I still wouldn't even agree with "ignore that item", that doesn't change the point of what I said in any way, does it?

28 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It is two things. It is a price tag, but it also adds addditional hoops to jump through in regard to actions you have to do.

So what you mean really is just...

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Or is stat changing is somehow too much work now too?

...this? Uh.

28 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

"buy that one stuff and salvage" (because at 1s per RN, you don't have to craft to get ahead, you can just buy stuff off TP and salvage that and still end with a much better bargain).

Which was also said to be a clear option and yet at no point you seemed to approve of it either?

28 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You are paying to go through additional steps in order to get something you could get cheaper and simpler somewhere else.

Plenty of people having unneeded ascended gear laying around would also have most/all of the other needed materials btw. And if you don't have things like ecto, you''ll need those anyways for many other things, so at this point you might as well not try to "buy exactly 5 ecto each time so the hoop is still there", but instead get, you know, substantially more than that and just have it ready for when you need it again.

28 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

or you can keep that ascended and still get research notes at, say, ~80c per RN (so, significantly cheaper). And the second option is even easier to do. (...)

You can, of course, pick whatever you like, but please, do not come and advise other players that this first option is good. Or defend those that claim so. Because it just isn't.

It can be, depending on the player and their situation. And if you mind where it started, it was right about here:

So clearly someone saying they can finally get rid of unneeded ascended gear for notes. As an example, I also did that with the recently added Spec Ops set and got ~2,.7k notes. I know, I know: instead of doing that I should be complaining on the forum how hard it is to get them. Except it is not. And I did each of the 3 options I list in my posts. Pick whatever you want, not sure anyone cares what you prefer, but clearly each of the options have their pros.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So clearly someone saying they can finally get rid of unneeded ascended gear for notes. As an example, I also did that with the recently added Spec Ops set and got ~2,.7k notes. I know, I know: instead of doing that I should be complaining on the forum how hard it is to get them. Except it is not. And I did each of the 3 options I list in my posts. Pick whatever you want, not sure anyone cares what you prefer, but clearly each of the options have their pros.

 

Not how hard is it (yet depending the criteria and how you define "hard"), but how ridiculous it is.
How new players are going to catch up ? Where are their unneeded ascended gears ? So the response for them on how to get the new currency for expansion content is to "not limit themself" and farm older content for ascended lottery that they also need to farm this same content. Some point ironic.

 

Of course this is not "hard" to recycle or put 4 items in the mystic forge; but you're talking like middle class  "Gas price rising ? Buy a Tesla, what's the issue ? _Ah yeah my bad, that's so easy, why I didn't already sell my kidney for it ?"
Still this resource is unnecessarily annoying, time-consuming, and actually ruining, frustrating for new or casual players who may need this saving of materials, golds and ascended chests.
I think it's okai to get material sink or money gambling ; but in this case it should be an alternative solution for a normal grinding "currency"; to let players the choice between the farm on the new expansion, the  possibility to save materials/chests in the process, or the cleaning of bank and inventory.

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Not how hard is it (yet depending the criteria and how you define "hard"), but how ridiculous it is.
How new players are going to catch up ? Where are their unneeded ascended gears ? So the response for them on how to get the new currency for expansion content is to "not limit themself" and farm older content for ascended lottery that they also need to farm this same content. Some point ironic.

I'm not sure how this is ironic seeing how, again, this is just one of the ways to get the notes.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

I'm not sure how this is ironic seeing how, again, this is just one of the ways to get the notes.

Yet this was his major argument.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Yet this was his major argument.

Argument against what? Having multiple options and being able to pick one of them? I'm not sure anyone tried to insist someone needs to use one specific option, the post I linked just mentioned that they don't mind since they can get rid of their unneeded ascended gear. Nobody said that new players should somehow rush for ascended drops to turn them into research notes -but hey, maybe someone did and I just missed it.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Argument against what? Having multiple options and being able to pick one of them? I'm not sure anyone tried to insist someone needs to use one specific option, the post I quoted just mentioned that they don't mind since they can get rid of their unneeded ascended gear. Nobody said that new players should somehow rush for ascended drops to turn them into research notes -but hey, maybe someone did and I just missed it.

And I said those multiple options are missing simpler and encouraging options.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

And I said those multiple options are missing simpler and encouraging options.

Nothing hard about either using ascended gear or crafting a bunch of stuff with automatic research option turned on oooor buying items off tp to get the research notes. At least as far as I'm aware and, again, I've used all of the above.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Nothing hard against either using ascneded gear or crafting a bunch of stuff with automatic research option turned on oooor buying items off tp to get the research notes. As far as I'm aware and, again, I've used all of the above.

Saving materials for crafting could be; precisely when you need those materials for character gearing.
Again I don't deny the convenience  of those "multiple" solutions; yet those only multiple solutions lack of practicality (fun) and openness for all players ... which is somewhat kitten for a major currency on the latest expansion and essentially open-world content.

[Linken.6345]

2 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Saving materials for crafting could be; precisely when you need those materials for character gearing.
Again I don't deny the convenience  of those "multiple" solutions; yet those only multiple solutions lack of practicality (fun) and openness for all players ... which is somewhat kitten for a major currency on the latest expansion and essentially open-world content.

You can gear in a multitude of other ways.

One example that you dont need any living story seasons for are

Bladed armor boxes in verdant brink.

for ascended you got strikes in eye of the north open to all.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blue_Prophet_Shard

scroll down to Currency for section.

No need to use any of your other crafting materials.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

13 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nothing hard about either using ascended gear or crafting a bunch of stuff with automatic research option turned on oooor buying items off tp to get the research notes. At least as far as I'm aware and, again, I've used all of the above.

Hard? No, it's not. What it is is however is painful, annoying and unfun. If Anet's intention was to make a sink for less used mats, the current RN design makes it counterproductive, by discouraging players from engaging with that design as much as possible.

[kharmin.7683]

17 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Hard? No, it's not. What it is is however is painful, annoying and unfun. If Anet's intention was to make a sink for less used mats, the current RN design makes it counterproductive, by discouraging players from engaging with that design as much as possible.

Exactly so.  This mechanic has in no way affected the materials that I have stored up because I'm simply not engaging with it. 

[Gibson.4036]

43 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Exactly so.  This mechanic has in no way affected the materials that I have stored up because I'm simply not engaging with it. 

Recently I crafted things using mostly Karma-bought ingredients. So even engaging with it, it can fail to affect stored materials and gold.

And with the way Karma is, it put a tiny, tiny dent in my stored Karma.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[kharmin.7683]

24 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Recently I crafted things using mostly Karma-bought ingredients. So even engaging with it, it can fail to affect stored materials and gold.

And with the way Karma is, it put a tiny, tiny dent in my stored Karma.

That's all well and good.  I just think that the entire concept is bad form.  Crafting things only to break them apart just for the research notes?  It's a waste of time, IMO.

And, if one wanted the process to be more "realistic" then shouldn't research notes come when one crafts the item?  I mean, why wouldn't someone take notes while they're actually crafting the thing?  /shrug

Research notes are stupid.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Hard? No, it's not. What it is is however is painful, annoying and unfun.

It really isn't, you're intentionally blowing things out of proportions like you did in case of stat-changing being so much effort because you totally need to buy 5 ecto separately for every instance you want to do it.

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

the current RN design makes it counterproductive

Share the stats. Or is it, again, just "I don't like it, so it doesn't work"?

Edited May 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That's all well and good.  I just think that the entire concept is bad form.  Crafting things only to break them apart just for the research notes?  It's a waste of time, IMO.

And, if one wanted the process to be more "realistic" then shouldn't research notes come when one crafts the item?  I mean, why wouldn't someone take notes while they're actually crafting the thing?  /shrug

Research notes are stupid.

Totally agree with you. Just noting that even engaging with it doesn't mean it does what it's supposed to.

Research notes are stupid.

[Doggie.3184]

I'm not even sure why NPCs want me handing them stacks of 3000+ research papers for things. Could you imagine being the person who has to read through all of that?

What am I even writing on them? 50+ pages (both front and back because I'm not wasteful) describing how I crafted a helmet, like holy crap. 😂

Edited May 30, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Randulf.7614]

4 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I'm not even sure why NPCs want me handing them stacks of 3000+ research papers for things. Could you imagine being the person who has to read through all of that?

What am I even writing on them? 50+ pages (both front and back because I'm not wasteful) describing how I crafted a helmet, like holy crap. 😂

“The Ministry of Armour thanks you for your research. Please take a ticket and make yourself comfortable with your 3000 pages and someone will call your ticket number when they are ready to see you to exchange for your chosen headpiece.
Your custom is very important to us.”

[Solvar.7953]

Research notes remind me a bit of ascended food, where you would have to make some food so that you could then compost it to grow other stuff.  That had some effect as some items with cheap mats became preferred items to make then compost.  As an aside, as someone who does recreational gardening, generally less processed items are better for composting than heavily processed, eg, better to just chop that cabbage into small pieces and toss it in the compost pile than turn it into coleslaw first.  But GW2 never claimed to be realistic (though many of the recipes have some real basis for fact, so they tend to pick and choose what is realistic and what is not) 

But to me, that entire process, like research notes, just feels like busy work.  Is it hard to do?  No.  Is it interesting to do?  No.  Do I want to spend my limited spare time when playing a game doing busywork?  No.

So in the end, I've just skipped those activities.  Which at some level isn't a problem, but in some level, if the majority of players also skip those activities, Anet spending resources for something that a small minority does may not make sense.  But I have no actual idea what portion of players feel similar to how I do, so maybe I'm in the minority of my opinions.

 

[anninke.7469]

10 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I'm not even sure why NPCs want me handing them stacks of 3000+ research papers for things. Could you imagine being the person who has to read through all of that?

What am I even writing on them? 50+ pages (both front and back because I'm not wasteful) describing how I crafted a helmet, like holy crap. 😂

How you SALVAGED a helmet, to be precise... 😁

[Khisanth.2948]

1 minute ago, anninke.7469 said:

How you SALVAGED a helmet, to be precise... 😁

salvaging is already silly with the wood from a bow somehow turning back into a log and leather becomes uncured

[anninke.7469]

1 minute ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

salvaging is already silly with the wood from a bow somehow turning back into a log and leather becomes uncured

Might need some more research to get better salvage results 😂