CC kills this game

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Stunbreak. Dodge kills CC.

[Kate.3679]

12 hours ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

^^^ Thats all false, one just play pvp with any skilled player that makes cc his thing. he'll keep you CC'd until your dead, I promise. 🙂  But pvp aside, there are many bosses who do that. 
For instance, fight a high judge from Vabbi, specially Sidan who summons mobs.  Several of his mobs have instant stuns, one of his moves is a hammer upswing, with no que, its instant, its one of his stand attacks, it throws you into the air, and then across the room. He also stuns you and ... locks your powers. 🙂  yes if you have a stun break you can cancel it, but I just listed how many stuns? good luck finding a build with that many stun breaks. 
That's just one fight, the game is littered with fights like that.

First, that "tank build = aggro" is nonsense. 
^^^ this is the first CUE I have that you have zero clue how the game mechanics work, go look into how to properly use toughness and you might figure out how that works. 🙂

double post

Edited May 29, 2023 by Ruru.1302
double post

[Kate.3679]

So I went and checked out the high judge fights you mentioned and I pretty easily solo'd all 3. Yeah there was a bit of cc but nothing too unmanageable.

Ejele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtEyc6Kxjtk 
Sidan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkkYKL6DU9s
Kulul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY7RSZTjQgo

12 hours ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

^^^ Thats all false, one just play pvp with any skilled player that makes cc his thing. he'll keep you CC'd until your dead, I promise. 🙂  But pvp aside, there are many bosses who do that. 
For instance, fight a high judge from Vabbi, specially Sidan who summons mobs.  Several of his mobs have instant stuns, one of his moves is a hammer upswing, with no que, its instant, its one of his stand attacks, it throws you into the air, and then across the room. He also stuns you and ... locks your powers. 🙂  yes if you have a stun break you can cancel it, but I just listed how many stuns? good luck finding a build with that many stun breaks. 
That's just one fight, the game is littered with fights like that.

First, that "tank build = aggro" is nonsense. 
^^^ this is the first CUE I have that you have zero clue how the game mechanics work, go look into how to properly use toughness and you might figure out how that works. 🙂

8 hours ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

Exactly. I dont get how people are so mind blown by this concept. It honestly makes me feel like half the people on these forums dont actually play the game xD At least all the ones making confused faces on these posts like they've never tried to play EoD or PoF solo or with what few people are on the maps. 

All anyone has to do is try the High Judge Ejele fight without making a group ahead of time. Basic fight. Basic event. its near impossible due to CC. Most the high judge fights are. At one point, they were fine. because 500 people were running around the map. Now, they are nightmares. There are many spots in the game like that.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Ruru.1302

[xlion.3065]

[deleted]

Edited October 29, 2023 by xlion.3065

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Ruru.1302 said:

So I went and checked out the high judge fights you mentioned and I pretty easily solo'd all 3. Yeah there was a bit of cc but nothing too unmanageable.

Ejele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtEyc6Kxjtk 
Sidan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkkYKL6DU9s
Kulul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY7RSZTjQgo

It looks like these particular bosses just punish melee.  I think OP said he's playing herald, so he would have to get close to be effective.  At which point the boss uses those big knockbacks.  It's easier when you have some range capability and PBAoE with a little radius on it to kite some of the CC.  Which supports the idea that this is not really an issue with too much CC in the game, but specific encounters which do have effective workarounds (aside from being intended as group content).

[Kate.3679]

40 minutes ago, xlion.3065 said:

How often did you manage to break Ejele's bar?
I think you used Fleshworm Teleport to get back, right?

i was using spectral walk to port back

i didnt even know he sent me to jail until after starting the boss lol, i didnt read any mechanics or anything i just wiki'd how to spawn them

[xlion.3065]

[deleted]

Edited October 29, 2023 by xlion.3065

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Stunbreak. Dodge kills CC.

Yes. One cc. And then you get cc'd again.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

38 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes. One cc. And then you get cc'd again.

You can dodge twice, thrice if you are a DD. Stability, block exist, so are the aforementioned stunbreaks.. Use them instead of complaining about getting CCd when you are not defending yourself.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes. One cc. And then you get cc'd again.

I mean, what do you want?  Even bosses like the ones specifically chosen as the target of this complaint can be done solo and CC didn't seem to be that big a deal.

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Which brings us back to the original point - there's just way too many trash mobs with cc abilities on short cooldowns.

Weird, never noticed that. Even now, after you've pointed  it out, I still don't see that ingame?

[Jedrik.3109]

20 hours of meta trains a week, CC  not an issue..

Different class every train, CC not an issue..

Over 50 year old reaction time, CC not an issue..

We have no gear treadmill in this game. Our only progression is our own skill. And this thread is suggesting we take that away. And let me address what others will say is obvious, you have raids, strikes and fractals to progress your skill. Yes! True! But let me point out what has been stated by the devs, that the skill disparity between instance content and open world is over 100%. Do we think it's healthy to increase it even more by turning open world to a walking around simulator? 

[Cuks.8241]

The judges are very annoying to solo I would agree. I think they can also spawn in the tombs and that makes it super hard if you are solo. The map is not as populated and the whole chain takes a looooong time so even if someone joins for one of them they usually leave for the next.

But thats not really a cc problem, its more of a old content problem. Did you open lfg for some help? 

Also forget about open world tanking. Open world is designed with the necessity to avoid getting hit and not face tanking.  Face tanking is just plain bad for anything but specific raid encounters.

And let me tell you a secret, toughness tanking only works with raid bosses. With other mobs aggro is  acquired  through other means; proximity/distance, highest dmg, random. I'm not going to say toughness is not the best stat for open world but in most cases it is. But unless you play trailblazer or celstial something, its probably bad.

If you want to be an open world tank think less mmorpg type of tank and think more MOBA style tank. Tank is a distruptor (CC) and/or active group support. Now imo a trailblazer/celestial Herald is probably the closest thing to an OW tank. But not because it can take dmg but because it has huge amount of disruption (knock backs, pulls, blind...) and great group boon support.

[Doggie.3184]

Play Tempest and enjoy permastability. 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

My memories of PvE OW are certainly dated.  So,  my opinion that ANet didn't have a clue when assigning short-cooldown CC to mob types and then putting 4 or 5 of them together is also dated.  However, I can certainly remember situations where the amount of CC incoming overwhelmed my ability to avoid/cancel it.

In WvW, CC is not out of control if you outnumber the enemy, but it can be when they outnumber you.  In the latter case, smaller groups/individuals need to adopt the Maguuma approach of playing roamer builds that have enough stab/stun break/etc. PLUS the mobility to get away from the AoE CC spam put out by a zerg that has some idea what it's doing.  Then again, WvW is designed to give every advantage to larger groups.  I'm not even sure what ANet could do to change that.  Maybe replace a lot of the AOE crap with more single target abilities.  That ship has likely sailed, though, as I can imagine the complaint storm which would accompany such a change.

As to seeing any changes in PvE, I very much doubt it would happen.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I actually like the CC.  While it can be annoying, that can also make it feel more rewarding when you avoid it by using your evades and other skills.  I'm sure we can think of specific examples of too much CC, but for the most part I think this is a non-issue and I say that from the perspective of melee weaver with no on-demand stunbreak or stability on my build.

[Tiviana.2650]

I tend to agree on some points , if you run desolation on the ground and get jumped by those cc oriented mobs you will likely get killed trying to run that gauntlet. Some builds and classes have more breaks than others or more utility to keep them up while they are cc'd stunned etc. I think some of the roaming mobs that are in packs could use some toning down in desolation. Esp if you get knocked back into the next set of mobs agro range now thats fun

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Normally dont have a problem, but OP is right that there are quite a few locations in PvE where you are chained CC-ed. Sometimes I think Anet thinks we can equip 15+ stunbreak skills.

[Solvar.7953]

For me, lots of CC has the same problem where a lot of more recent content has 75% of the battlefield covered by red circles you should avoid.  One can counter it, but having the reflexes to hit the right counter in time, or move to that small safe area, is something that gets harder as one gets older.

Someone above mentioned dodging the effects - that works to some degree (if I time the dodge correctly, fact that 75% of the battlefield is covered isn't and issue).  But the problem is that the battlefield coverage will happen often enough that I'll quickly run out of dodges.  And this is true for some CC content.  While the top 10% of players may be able to do movement, time dodges, hit correct skill sequences and counters, that doesn't really help the other 90% of the players.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

For me, lots of CC has the same problem where a lot of more recent content has 75% of the battlefield covered by red circles you should avoid.  One can counter it, but having the reflexes to hit the right counter in time, or move to that small safe area, is something that gets harder as one gets older.

Someone above mentioned dodging the effects - that works to some degree (if I time the dodge correctly, fact that 75% of the battlefield is covered isn't and issue).  But the problem is that the battlefield coverage will happen often enough that I'll quickly run out of dodges.  And this is true for some CC content.  While the top 10% of players may be able to do movement, time dodges, hit correct skill sequences and counters, that doesn't really help the other 90% of the players.

 

If we're talking about large group events, the fact that other players are present and help each other mitigates failure.  They can heal you, they can revive you, and worst case scenario the event doesn't fail just because you die and have to run back.  If the argument is that any amount of CC or damage is unacceptable because the bottom 10% feel inadequate, I don't think we end up with much of a "game" at that point.

[Solvar.7953]

I don't think CC or other effects should be removed, but recent content has expanded the use to them just being annoying and not enhancing the game.

A case in point, last night I was doing one of the DRMs (bloodtide coast I think).  The end boss there does an attack that will put you in a block of ice for a couple second, but time your dodge and you are OK.  Except that he uses the attack faster than dodges come back, so basically during play, you will be caught in a block of ice at least once, maybe more, even if you only use the dodges for that.  So if the timing of that was scaled down just a bit so dodges come back faster (but not fast enough if using the dodges for other things), that would seem fine to me.  But as now, it just feels frustrating and not particularly fun.

 

[Gravitron.7982]

13 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I don't think CC or other effects should be removed, but recent content has expanded the use to them just being annoying and not enhancing the game.

A case in point, last night I was doing one of the DRMs (bloodtide coast I think).  The end boss there does an attack that will put you in a block of ice for a couple second, but time your dodge and you are OK.  Except that he uses the attack faster than dodges come back, so basically during play, you will be caught in a block of ice at least once, maybe more, even if you only use the dodges for that.  So if the timing of that was scaled down just a bit so dodges come back faster (but not fast enough if using the dodges for other things), that would seem fine to me.  But as now, it just feels frustrating and not particularly fun.

 

Yeah I definitely agree with you here. 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

On 5/31/2023 at 12:07 AM, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

Normally dont have a problem, but OP is right that there are quite a few locations in PvE where you are chained CC-ed. Sometimes I think Anet thinks we can equip 15+ stunbreak skills.

Where? Other than the Forged and Awakened occasionally pulling you or knocking you down with little tell there's barely any form of CC that doesn't give you 4 business days to react.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

On 5/29/2023 at 3:18 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes. One cc. And then you get cc'd again.

If a player continually gets hit with chain CC, then, I'm afraid at that point it's quite literally a skill issue.

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Where? Other than the Forged and Awakened occasionally pulling you or knocking you down with little tell there's barely any form of CC that doesn't give you 4 business days to react.

A lot of trash mobs have 1 sec animation for their CC abilities. Deciphering that animation when 5 of them are on the screen is no easy task. The only one I can name right now are the Leopard/raven/wolf Fallen shamans in Bojar march, but there a lot of these kind of mobs. In fairness in Isolation they are no danger at all, but in some location/Events they just pile up on you. For example North/east Bojarch march has a Patrol event. If the Patrol, who rngs out of a mob pool, spawns with a lot of shamans on top of shamans who are already on the map, CC just flys at you. If the patrol spawns instead with mostly kodans it does literally nothing. If you roam maps of the beaten trail, you get such encounter every now and then.