Dead part of GW2: PVP

[iminxi.8514]

You want to boost thepvp population by increasing the rewards in ranked matches?

How in the world do you think this will attract a casual crowd to pvp?  

If you think the try hard elitists are the ones who keep a pvp population healthy you are a fool.  Without an exponentially larger casual population it'sa dead gamemode.

If anything make pvp rewards more accesible for casuals. Bring the fun back, i've not met a single person who let out a laugh during a pvp match. 

Just lookat the pvp content creators. The absolute vitriol is just laughable and I can see why99% of the gw2 player base would have nothing to do with them.

And these arethe people you want to bump up? You are under the impression that buffing ranked competetive game mode will bring in new players. it wont.

 

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:22 PM, FuriousLight.9160 said:

One simple change:

Smack the devs over the head till they balance the game around everyone and not themselves and a couple of top players.

5 hours ago, demonbeetle.2387 said:

If you think the try hard elitists are the ones who keep a pvp population healthy you are a fool.  Without an exponentially larger casual population it'sa dead gamemode.

100% that. Top players rather be king of the ashes in their withering game mode then be concerned with the health of the game.

[iminxi.8514]

13 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

Smack the devs over the head till they balance the game around everyone and not themselves and a couple of top players.

100% that. Top players rather be king of the ashes in their withering game mode then be concerned with the health of the game.

Pretty much! I'd say bring the fun back to pvp, how? Idk how either but somehow Anet should bring the fun back.

Perhaps delete the whole ranked ladders and make a single pool. I know for a fact that the term "ranked" and "competetive" simply discourages alot of non competetive players to play in fear of being bashed because theydont perform to someone else's standards.

 

Tbh ranked doesn't add anything to spvp, the tournements are enough for competetive players. And lets face it, there is nothing worthwile playing unranked bar for the achievements and dailys. The actual rewards are in ranked, and for 95% of the gw2 players the vitriol is definetly not worth it. Besides, you can get gear through pve/achievements withalot less stress and sheer hate(some of these pvpers are literally insane tbh).  Though deleting ranked might also lead to oversaturation of veteran players which in turn could end up in new players discouraged, but that's an MMR issue.

Melting unranked and ranked might result in a bigger playerpool though which should alsomean that the MMR would function better, atleast i've read in other threads that the small pool is also a cause of the bad matchmaking.

That said, i'm a casual pvper so i'm definetly not an expert but these are some fairly unbiased points i'd say..

 

 

[FuriousLight.9160]

'Aight...the whole point was to give Anet ideas on how to play with the environment to bring casual players to pvp, get some money out of pvp and to save the pvp mode.

Comparing the 2 environments we have : Conquest and 2v2/3v3
Conquest is harder than 2v2/3v3, why? -> Rotations, team play, hold points, score etc.
2v2/3v3 is easier than Conquest, why ? -> Deathmatch, focus on surviving and dealing damage, no score, no rotations, no holding points

Casual players will be inclined to have something simple to do and get rewards out of it. That's why 2v2/3v3 would have rewards smaller than Conquest.

Elites will be inclined to have something harder to do, that's why they are Elites. Search for players to make a team, learn the maps, learn to rotate, lots of communications and testing with the team etc. They will be much more organized than casual players and they will want to do that because they will get more rewards out of conquest.

Yeah, this will split the community in pvp but will give the casual player a chance to choose. Play 2v2/3v3, get used to the game ,learn the class, learn combos and all that without thinking about nodes, rotations, if you like it you can search for a team, if not, stay in 2v2/3v3 and enjoy it as you like it.

 

[FiveBunnies.5730]

On 6/13/2023 at 1:16 AM, Shagie.7612 said:

source: i made it up

I am a player who only plays mini seasons.

[Jski.6180]

Esports never worked out for anet nor did any of the new spvp forms of map. Spvp been dead for a long time. Though it seems like over all esports is dying off too its fun but not that profitable.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:22 AM, FuriousLight.9160 said:

PVP = Clown fest and a lot of people could agree with me on this.
One simple change can get the pvp out of this hell hole. Make 2v2 and 3v3 available during the season.
Raise the rewards for ranked pvp conquest and bring the 2v2 and 3v3 ranked to the current reward level of conquest.

Conquest will still be played because it will have higher rewards if a team works together for nodes and points, but people who can't handle that will go to 2v2 and 3v3 to get rewards from there.
IMO this will be a great thing to do, i've also seen people enjoying more 2v2 or 3v3 seasons than conquest long season.

+ some balancing and tunning and this can go really well actually.

Y'all just have to play around with features that are already in the game, ik there is some work to be done around but it's not that much compared to reworking the whole stuff

All ideas are welcomed as far as they are for our pvp community.

https://poll-maker.com/poll4843478x77754cF9-149
Posted the poll here also to be visible

 

2v2 and 3v3 are even more clown fests than 5v5. Firebrand, catalyst, necro every match? Yeah...good luck with that. The game is simply not designed for it.

[Mika.2057]

I think merging Rank and Unranked queue for the same mode would be a good idea but still keep an Unranked queue for the other mode and alternate.

• During a Conquest Ranked season, have the Unranked queue be 2v2/3v3.
• During a 2v2/3v3 Ranked season, have the Unranked queue be Conquest.

I also think losing a match should yields less reward than currently to discourage AFKers, etc.  

[razaelll.8324]

30 minutes ago, Mika.2057 said:

I think merging Rank and Unranked queue for the same mode would be a good idea but still keep an Unranked queue for the other mode and alternate.

• During a Conquest Ranked season, have the Unranked queue be 2v2/3v3.
• During a 2v2/3v3 Ranked season, have the Unranked queue be Conquest.

I also think losing a match should yields less reward than currently to discourage AFKers, etc.  

That's not a bad idea to be honest.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 6/12/2023 at 1:50 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

2v2/3v3 could be the team modes and 5v5 could be soloQ

Yep. This right here.  You got some buddies to play with, go for it.  You want ranked? Let the matchmaker shuffle you. 

[Hotride.2187]

Its not just spvp that is dead, the whole combat is dead. Why dodge when you can vomit boons and stack modifiers while slamming your head on the keyboard.

[Ultima.5280]

On 6/12/2023 at 7:50 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

remove participation awards

HAHAHA

Sorry, if you do that, you just make queue 5 times longer

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

On 7/12/2023 at 11:09 AM, Ultima.5280 said:

HAHAHA

Sorry, if you do that, you just make queue 5 times longer

If anything is funny, its the fact that people will whine about afkers and at the same time, threaten to quit if they can't get through a game without getting paid for doing jack squat. Very promising career awaiting these people at Starbucks, if they aren't there already.

You don't have any evidence that the queue times would increase and without changes to the matchmaker, they wouldn't.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 6/18/2023 at 4:05 AM, demonbeetle.2387 said:

You want to boost thepvp population by increasing the rewards in ranked matches?

How in the world do you think this will attract a casual crowd to pvp?  

If you think the try hard elitists are the ones who keep a pvp population healthy you are a fool.  Without an exponentially larger casual population it'sa dead gamemode.

If anything make pvp rewards more accesible for casuals. Bring the fun back, i've not met a single person who let out a laugh during a pvp match. 

Just lookat the pvp content creators. The absolute vitriol is just laughable and I can see why99% of the gw2 player base would have nothing to do with them.

And these arethe people you want to bump up? You are under the impression that buffing ranked competetive game mode will bring in new players. it wont.

 

I'm with you on the die-hard elitists (they're all suckers...) but the truth is that mmorpg multiplayer is dead in a ditch. Doesn't matter what game it is. (gw2, ESO, FF14 whatever) Action rpg is too much of a hot mess of action combat and rpg mechanics to balance. So basically nobody bothers.

(grabs popcorn)

I've basically quit about a couple of years ago and never looked back! I'm just now here enjoying the fireworks from far away.

[iminxi.8514]

3 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

I'm with you on the die-hard elitists (they're all suckers...) but the truth is that mmorpg multiplayer is dead in a ditch. Doesn't matter what game it is. (gw2, ESO, FF14 whatever) Action rpg is too much of a hot mess of action combat and rpg mechanics to balance. So basically nobody bothers.

(grabs popcorn)

I've basically quit about a couple of years ago and never looked back! I'm just now here enjoying the fireworks from far away.

Completely and wholeheartedly agree tbh. I think we can all agree that MMO's don't live and die by PvP, it's all about story, the world and the PvE. anyone denying this is literally living in aa fantasy world(pun intended).

For me personally balance is absolutely trivial, i've always considered MMO e-sports a joke, but time investment and what I get in return does matter to me(which is severely lacking) furthermore as somewhat of a sportsmanship geek I absolutely detest game-fixing, win-trading and the like. alas GW2 PvP is lacking on ALL fronts in this regards.

I think the real future of GW2 pvp will always be WvW and, hopefully, more open-world types of PvP, because "structured"(lol, it's pugging) PvP is too prone to abuse by people who take it too seriously, or make a buck out of it.

[JTGuevara.9018]

2 minutes ago, demonbeetle.2387 said:

Completely and wholeheartedly agree tbh. I think we can all agree that MMO's don't live and die by PvP, it's all about story, the world and the PvE. anyone denying this is literally living in aa fantasy world(pun intended).

For me personally balance is absolutely trivial, i've always considered MMO e-sports a joke, but time investment and what I get in return does matter to me(which is severely lacking) furthermore as somewhat of a sportsmanship geek I absolutely detest game-fixing, win-trading and the like. alas GW2 PvP is lacking on ALL fronts in this regards.

I think the real future of GW2 pvp will always be WvW and, hopefully, more open-world types of PvP, because "structured"(lol, it's pugging) PvP is too prone to abuse by people who take it too seriously, or make a buck out of it.

mmos actually used to live-and-die by pvp. Literally! Well...look what happened lmao! It turns out that people HATE being corpse-farmed when just starting out new. So they just stopped playing. And all the open-world pvp elitists just corpse-farmed each other. There's a REASON why open-world pvp mmos collapsed in their own insipid filth.

[iminxi.8514]

3 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

mmos actually used to live-and-die by pvp. Literally! Well...look what happened lmao! It turns out that people HATE being corpse-farmed when just starting out new. So they just stopped playing. And all the open-world pvp elitists just corpse-farmed each other. There's a REASON why open-world pvp mmos collapsed in their own insipid filth.

It will imo always be an under-represented part of an mmo vs its pve counterpart, judging by sheer player count alone. Infamy and renown dO indeed contribute to an mmo's "status".

Imo open world pvp in mmo's is absolutely fantastic, keep farming like we see in ESO and gw isn't that imo. A prevalent example would be WoW classic wpvp, that is the real open world pvp, where you fight for actual meaningful kitten not some point that will be taken back within the next 30 min because you'll probably get more xp by losibg it and retaking it.

[Sweetbread.3678]

Honestly I think metabattle was the worst thing to ever happen to this game's pvp. I don't think I've ever seen an mmo community so obsessed with just immediately copying the most busted and braindead meta build of the week as GW2's is. Granted balance has never been great for pvp, but every misstep is exponentially exacerbated by just having some list that any imbecile can just copy/paste the worst balance offenders from. It really is pathetic how little deviation there is from the top listed builds; I can seriously count on one hand how many times I've seen something that wasn't a copy/paste job this season (or any season really).

[Shagie.7612]

3 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Honestly I think metabattle was the worst thing to ever happen to this game's pvp. I don't think I've ever seen an mmo community so obsessed with just immediately copying the most busted and braindead meta build of the week as GW2's is

mate that's literally every competitive game lol
it's 2023 not 2003 anymore

resources are EVERYWHERE

[Bladestrom.6425]

10 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

mate that's literally every competitive game lol
it's 2023 not 2003 anymore

resources are EVERYWHERE

yeah metabattle = popular game and people want to learn from each other, its a healthy sign for a game.  The problem is when bad design decisions are made like rightfully buffing ele but not doing any appropriate impact analysis, or not responding quickly to big issue, aka the cumulative benefits that Cata got..

Edited July 14, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[iminxi.8514]

14 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Honestly I think metabattle was the worst thing to ever happen to this game's pvp. I don't think I've ever seen an mmo community so obsessed with just immediately copying the most busted and braindead meta build of the week as GW2's is. Granted balance has never been great for pvp, but every misstep is exponentially exacerbated by just having some list that any imbecile can just copy/paste the worst balance offenders from. It really is pathetic how little deviation there is from the top listed builds; I can seriously count on one hand how many times I've seen something that wasn't a copy/paste job this season (or any season really).

ITs because it has nothing to do with an mmo. Pvp in this game is a lobby game, remove HotM and pvp item panel and it is fixed. Gear means nothing, you pick your runes, sigils and the fotm. And you are good to go. 

Its a lobby game like fortnite and CoD is.

[Leger.3724]

I don't think there is a fix. The launch of MOBAs has pretty much doomed any large player population picking an MMO for pvp.

Guild Wars 2 launched in 2012. At its launch they hired djWheat to cast pvp games.

League of Legends had launched in 2009. DOTA 2 launched in 2013. League of Legends and DOTA 2 are free. They're easier to learn and understand. You can get progression in the form of profile banners, icons, skins and everything else. What does MMO pvp offer that a MOBA does not?

I don't think that's a reason to give up on pvp in MMOs or even arena pvp in MMOs but it's an uphill battle. A game with as much complexity as Guild Wars 2 is flat out not going to succeed with arena pvp.

 

[Burnfall.9573]

On 7/9/2023 at 5:04 PM, Hotride.2187 said:

Its not just spvp that is dead, the whole combat is dead. Why dodge when you can vomit boons and stack modifiers while slamming your head on the keyboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb0mYueA6mI

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Ultima.5280]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:12 PM, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

If anything is funny, its the fact that people will whine about afkers and at the same time, threaten to quit if they can't get through a game without getting paid for doing jack squat. Very promising career awaiting these people at Starbucks, if they aren't there already.

You don't have any evidence that the queue times would increase and without changes to the matchmaker, they wouldn't.

 

I talk to some people in pve that play sPvP, they just say "When my legendary armor is done, I will never play pvp again"

Or during a game, I ask "why do you don’t even try ?" -> "I just here for transmog reward"

These are just exemples.

5 times longer is an exageration  but it’s an obvious thing, with a lower playerbase, some people will just stop to queue.

 

 

[Malus.2184]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:22 PM, FuriousLight.9160 said:

PVP = Clown fest and a lot of people could agree with me on this.
One simple change can get the pvp out of this hell hole. Make 2v2 and 3v3 available during the season.
Raise the rewards for ranked pvp conquest and bring the 2v2 and 3v3 ranked to the current reward level of conquest.

Conquest will still be played because it will have higher rewards if a team works together for nodes and points, but people who can't handle that will go to 2v2 and 3v3 to get rewards from there.
IMO this will be a great thing to do, i've also seen people enjoying more 2v2 or 3v3 seasons than conquest long season.

+ some balancing and tunning and this can go really well actually.

Y'all just have to play around with features that are already in the game, ik there is some work to be done around but it's not that much compared to reworking the whole stuff

All ideas are welcomed as far as they are for our pvp community.

https://poll-maker.com/poll4843478x77754cF9-149
Posted the poll here also to be visible

 

It's a lot simpler than that, create ranking brackets. All of your suggestions while they sound good would solve nothing. The real issue is that people with no experience seldom face other people on their skill level, instead, they often face what's essentially an insurmountable wall. As a result of that, they'll quit in frustration as the mode only caters to their active skill level by accident. Just like you can learn and enjoy nothing when it's too easy neither can you learn or enjoy anything if it's too difficult. People want equal opposition when competing rather than an easy win. Humans get more enjoyment and self-reflection out of a close loss than they do from an easy win.