U Cele Bro?

[Burial.1958]

2 hours ago, Esufer.8762 said:

why do people have such strong feelings about sigil of celerity? it's 5 seconds of quickness on a 20 second ICD, hardly OP

You should really taste some cele pizza.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

17 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Pffft you guys are looking at this all wrong, they don't need to remove stats from celestial....... they need to add more stats to every other 3 and 4 stat piece to make up the difference..... 🤔🤭🤷‍♂️🍦

Unironically this is the answer. The stat total across the 3 and 4 stat gear should total to the same amount as Cele. Whether that is a buff to the 3 and 4 stat gear or a nerf to Cele, or a combination of both is irrelevant so long as the stat totals are the same.

[Ferus.3165]

6 hours ago, thechief.3609 said:

Then I think you need to re read it a bit more closely people can one shot noobs regardless of what gear thier in, its when experienced players put cele on is the issue  and the other half that you clearly failed to read is the part where 90% of the people are agreeing that cele itself isnt the sole issue it's the boon spam that goes along with the way the anet has made the game cele give free 45% boon uptime so if you're on a renegade for example though trait line choice you can sustain 25might permanently with celestial and still have huge damage with no loss to anything  else and have 2.9k toughness with 26k health

much worse than those boone are imo the increased durations on cc conditions e.g. cele rene with it's 3 sec aoe taunt that when used in melee range doesn't even have an animation because the chains are practically not visible then.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Ferus.3165

[Ferus.3165]

pls delete

Edited June 20, 2023 by Ferus.3165

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

In all honesty, I find that Cele Trinkets having +1 Stats than the minor stats on 4 stat prefixes to be...extremely weird.

In addition to correcting this discrepancy, Concentration/Expertise should probably be nerfed down to 50% of the Minor stat of 3 stat sets (maybe even 50% minor of 4 stat sets), rounding down-
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations
So, in sequence of the Attribute table given by the wiki, that wud be

1-h weps: 59 to 45, 2-h weps: 118 to 89
Chest: 67 to 50, Legs: 44 to 33, Head: 3o to 22, Shoulders/Hands/Boots: 22 to 17
Amulet: 72 to 54, Rings: 57 to 42, Accessories: 50 to 37, Back: 28 to 20

This totals to a removal of 161/162 Concentration/Expertise, which doesn't look very large on paper, but in competitive environments will hopefully be enough to make an impact.

Edit: I am VERY against completely removing both stats, as some stats have less value than others, especially when factored into a specialized build.

Edited June 20, 2023 by MercurialKuroSludge.8974

[Hotride.2187]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:03 PM, RazieL.5684 said:

yeah and the arguments for the other side are "i refuse to bring condi cleanse", "i main willbender and my skill is through the roof but these cele noobs force me to use 4 skills instead of 3 to kill them!"

ps roaming is dead anyway, there are only gank groups out there, no roaming...

Everyone is packing condi cleanse like there is no tomorrow, cele builds first of all. Don't even pretend this is not the case.

What do you think killed roaming then?

[Ultima.5280]

Cele is becoming a problem since they had condi/boon to everyone. Powercreep made DragonHunter /dead eye deals 11k from stealth, as willbender I like having health and cele feels good : less power but better burn, better healthpool, better heals and resistance and boon duration. Elementalist cele feels broken too since boon duration and condi duration is affected by this stats

Edited June 22, 2023 by Ultima.5280

[senftube.6081]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:10 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Unironically this is the answer. The stat total across the 3 and 4 stat gear should total to the same amount as Cele. Whether that is a buff to the 3 and 4 stat gear or a nerf to Cele, or a combination of both is irrelevant so long as the stat totals are the same.

They should simply lover the stats cele gives and cut the boon uptime.

[Morena.9312]

On 6/17/2023 at 12:47 AM, Burial.1958 said:

Vallun made the mistake of not remaining truly objectiv (No real Pro & Contra)l. It is clear to everyone that there should definitely be easier classes/stat combos, especially for newer players. But if a stat is so dominantly represented in roaming as this one, then something is not really right. Cele is definitely a problem and often boring to play and against. ArenaNet can still make so many statements but roaming is since RLS an integral part of WvW (maybe not offical supported), which is gladly played by veterans. Since Cele has hardly any use in Zerging (where most newcomers are mostly found) Vallun's statement also just makes not that much sense in my opinion.

-> They should cut the boon duration and look on the stats it gives overall and balance that. Because with EoD and the Boon Spam kitten only several classes are problematic atm with it.

But to say there is not any problem with it is not very serious, sorry. Everyone who roams knows and sees that.  Atm it is simply a jack for all things and that is balance wise simply stupid. Tank, Dmg, condi and good heal and alot of Boon Spam in 1 set that has also more stats overall is stupid.

And the Argument for Ohhh new players need a easy going on set is also confusing because in the hand of a good player this is busted and the vet player will still kill the newbie and that pretty fast. 👻

 

What annoys me about Vallun's video is that he speaks as if he represents the majority. He definitely doesn't represent the roamers (which are affected the most of it!) , because I don't know any roamer who thinks Cele is good or not broken. The argument that a broken set is needed in the game is also kind of hollow. How are newcomers supposed to become good if a stat plays the game for them? Especially since in the hands of veterans this set is just really idiotic.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Yuberwaifu.8039

[schloumou.3982]

1 hour ago, Yuberwaifu.8039 said:

The argument that a broken set is needed in the game is also kind of hollow.

Indeed. I loled at this too. Under this premise any balance discussion becomes obsolete. When your goal are builds that are able to brute force 1v5 anything goes.

Edited June 21, 2023 by schloumou.3982

[Sereath.1428]

⬆️⬆️

What a disappointing video Vallun made.
And this is exactly why being good-great at a game doesn't automatically make you good at game design, that's a whole different beast.
Sure, it's good to listen to the input of above average players, but you should never take those notes too seriously.

Edited June 21, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[senftube.6081]

6 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

Indeed. I loled at this too. Under this premise any balance discussion becomes obsolete. When your goal are builds that are able to brute force 1v5 anything goes.

Yep and it is dumb. I once saw a fight between two good players on Cele and god it is even awful to watch. I do like Vallun often but here he really missed the point which is kinda sad. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by senftube.6081

[Nefras.7314]

2 hours ago, senftube.6081 said:

Yep and it is dumb. I once saw a fight between two good players on Cele and god it is even awful to watch. I do like Vallun often but here he really missed the point which is kinda sad. 

10 gold he only made that video to spark outrage/views and then complain everyone whos against him is cloud chasing.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Nefras.7314

[Polar.8634]

6 minutes ago, Nefras.7314 said:

10 gold he only made that video to spark outrage/views and then complain everyone whos against him is cloud chasing

I don't think so send me 10g now

[Serephen.3420]

6 hours ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

⬆️⬆️

What a disappointing video Vallun made.
And this is exactly why being good-great at a game doesn't automatically make you good at game design, that's a whole different beast.
Sure, it's good to listen to the input of above average players, but you should never take those notes too seriously.

What does that say about below average players then?

[RazieL.5684]

.

Edited June 22, 2023 by RazieL.5684

[Kryptic.4978]

After Vallun Made that vid I decided to make this just to show the difference that Cele gear has over the rest of the stat types.  I did the comparison on Zerk and Mara but it can be done to any other 2 or 4 stat gear in the game.

Main hand 2h- Zerk-609 Mara-666 cele-1062
Boots                 Zerk-115 Mara-124 cele-198
Leggings            Zerk-228 Mara-250 Cele-396
Gloves               Zerk-115 Mara-124 Cele-198
Chest                Zerk-343 Mara-376 cele-603
Shoulders       Zerk-115 Mara-124 Cele-198
Head               Zerk-153 Mara-168 Cele-270
Back                Zerk-143 Mara-158 Cele-252
Ringx2            Zerk-296 Mara-324 Cele-513
Amulet           Zerk-373 Mara-408 Cele-648
Accesoryx2    Zerk-258 Mara-282 Cele 450
Total                       3302          3610       5751

[apharma.3741]

52 minutes ago, Kryptic.4978 said:

After Vallun Made that vid I decided to make this just to show the difference that Cele gear has over the rest of the stat types.  I did the comparison on Zerk and Mara but it can be done to any other 2 or 4 stat gear in the game.

Main hand 2h- Zerk-609 Mara-666 cele-1062
Boots                 Zerk-115 Mara-124 cele-198
Leggings            Zerk-228 Mara-250 Cele-396
Gloves               Zerk-115 Mara-124 Cele-198
Chest                Zerk-343 Mara-376 cele-603
Shoulders       Zerk-115 Mara-124 Cele-198
Head               Zerk-153 Mara-168 Cele-270
Back                Zerk-143 Mara-158 Cele-252
Ringx2            Zerk-296 Mara-324 Cele-513
Amulet           Zerk-373 Mara-408 Cele-648
Accesoryx2    Zerk-258 Mara-282 Cele 450
Total                       3302          3610       5751

A common mistake is attributing equal value to each stat within a build. If you run a power traits soulbeast build without any conditions then condition damage, expertise and to some extent concentration, vitality or toughness and healing power is going to waste. This is because you don't inflict damaging conditions and your control conditions aren't going to be significantly longer. Fights shouldn't last long as you're a burst and leave kind of playstyle so the other stats are less needed as your skills/traits will do more for surviving than stats.

Where celestial matters is in do it all builds where weapons have different damage types with good scaling, where traits passively give good uptime of strong conditions (refinded toxins) as well as good stacking of might and other strong boons and where vitality, toughness and healing power scale well as the fight is going to last longer than Liz Truss.

[Kryptic.4978]

1 hour ago, apharma.3741 said:

A common mistake is attributing equal value to each stat within a build. If you run a power traits soulbeast build without any conditions then condition damage, expertise and to some extent concentration, vitality or toughness and healing power is going to waste. This is because you don't inflict damaging conditions and your control conditions aren't going to be significantly longer. Fights shouldn't last long as you're a burst and leave kind of playstyle so the other stats are less needed as your skills/traits will do more for surviving than stats.

Where celestial matters is in do it all builds where weapons have different damage types with good scaling, where traits passively give good uptime of strong conditions (refinded toxins) as well as good stacking of might and other strong boons and where vitality, toughness and healing power scale well as the fight is going to last longer than Liz Truss.

I get what you are trying to say but it does not justify that celes total stats are almost 2500 more than a 3 stat gear set.  I can see Cele needing a bit more bonus stats maybe a total of 4-4.2k but anymore than that is a advantage.  I have had cele players say what would u prefer me using trailblazers gear and my answer to them is always yes.  TB is way easier to deal with than Cele.  Even tho TB has more toughness than  Cele,  TB still feels way more tanky because it still has the same amount of HP with Healing power and concentration. IMO Cele is pretty much Minstrel gear that can do lots of damage

Edited June 23, 2023 by Kryptic.4978

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

4 hours ago, Kryptic.4978 said:

After Vallun Made that vid I decided to make this

This was alrdy on the wiki, on the very URL I linked.
Why is this thread so full of extreme arguments...
Its either "perfectly balanced" or "delete this thing", instead of the more reasonable tone down ppl before me have also proposed.

[Kryptic.4978]

19 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

This was alrdy on the wiki, on the very URL I linked.
Why is this thread so full of extreme arguments...
Its either "perfectly balanced" or "delete this thing", instead of the more reasonable tone down ppl before me have also proposed.

I mean something needs to be done about it at this point only thing to do in wvw is Zerg around most of the small scale players quit or just sit around in armistice and duel

[Nefras.7314]

38 minutes ago, Kryptic.4978 said:

I mean something needs to be done about it at this point only thing to do in wvw is Zerg around most of the small scale players quit or just sit around in armistice and duel

well when were not chilling in armistice we are busy mass ganking cele players ❤️

[Hotride.2187]

6 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

A common mistake is attributing equal value to each stat within a build. If you run a power traits soulbeast build without any conditions then condition damage, expertise and to some extent concentration, vitality or toughness and healing power is going to waste.

The omfg "arguments" again. Yes you cant slap cele on every build. The ones you can slap it on range from good to broken.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 6/21/2023 at 12:55 PM, Yuberwaifu.8039 said:

I don't know any roamer who thinks Cele is good or not broken. 

I admit I am tired and its late and neither Xen nor Archon are around to remind to get some sleep versus be on the forum. But aren't these opposite views? Roamer saying Cele is not good, Cele is broken. I will assume typo implying you are saying Cele is at least good and potentially OP? Or am I assuming? Just wanted to make sure.

Edit: I admit I used you both to keep my marbles in check before going futher. One should not post when the alarm goes off in an 2 hours. Not saying either of you are stable mind you, you are just my kind of crazy so figured if we all thought go for it, it might mean step away from that ledge. Just saying.

Edited June 23, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
Sanity, who needs it

[Zyreva.1078]

9 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

A common mistake is attributing equal value to each stat within a build. If you run a power traits soulbeast build without any conditions then condition damage, expertise and to some extent concentration, vitality or toughness and healing power is going to waste. This is because you don't inflict damaging conditions and your control conditions aren't going to be significantly longer. Fights shouldn't last long as you're a burst and leave kind of playstyle so the other stats are less needed as your skills/traits will do more for surviving than stats.

Defensive stats are never irrelevant unless you are just tower hugging and ganking outnumbered noobs. Because whether a fight ends instantly or not, depends mostly on your enemies and not on yourself. The build you posted also benefits a lot from boon duration. The only thing truly wasted is condition dmg. And as absurd it is, if you slap cele gear on it, it will still do just fine vs the zerk version, and might even the win 1vs1 due to much better sustain.

I have experimented a bit with a cele lb/gs "power" slb (different build than the one posted, but still 0 dmg condis) and it works just fine. Certainly competitive with a zerker/mara version on a build where it shouldn't be good at all. Cele is just that broken (Thanks to 25 might, vuln and modifier stacking it can still hit 10k+ mauls, mind you, and thanks to the defense it doesn't matter if you don't land your burst right away - you won't vs good players).

Ofc a build like that can't compete with any of the actually good cele builds, that do make use of all the stats, but those are just on a completely different lvl anyway and a power ranger won't be able to compete no matter what gear you slap on it.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Zyreva.1078