Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[Peter.3901]

3 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

I hope that Rubi will have an update for us later today when she gets into the office. It's been a week and it'll show that it's being treated with some priority by ArenaNet.

Still no answer, i think Anet forgot about it and moved on lol

[idpersona.3810]

1 hour ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

That's per character btw, if you have class that needs duplicates - it goes higher

It was just quick math that pertained specifically to the comment I quoted 🙂

I have 25+ 80s (with multiple builds on a lot of them). I am not looking forward to have to hunt around to gear them all out. That was supposed to be the whole point of crafting legendary runes. Literally, the main reason to spend almost 2k gold and deal with the provisioner tokens was to not have to do this.

[Thorne.9857]

41 minutes ago, Peter.3901 said:

Still no answer, i think Anet forgot about it and moved on lol

I'm running short on hope or charity at the moment, and you may well be right. A week without any communication, this abysmal handling of client relations is just making my trust in the company crumble. My fiancé and I were going to preorder this and sing their praises, but as it stands we're not planning to spend another cent on this game until they tell us what's going on and how exactly they plan to fix it.

Edit: Seriously, at this point, I'd even take a "Hey guys, we're still working on it, haven't forgotten about the problem" post. Dead silence is rarely a good sign.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Thorne.9857

[Geralt.7519]

12 hours ago, Thorne.9857 said:

as it stands we're not planning to spend another cent on this game until they tell us what's going on and how exactly they plan to fix it.

Same.

Holding off my preorder and gem purchases, until they give us a serious answer.

[troy.3257]

Surprise... still no answer on this topic! 

Like poster said above my money and time will not be wasted on this game anymore till this kitten is resolved. I have been looking for other MMOs to call my new home for the next few years if  Arena Net goes through with this debacle and I decide to move on.

[Swoo.5079]

I don't understand why there is an argument that this is an essential change to legendary runes.

A rune set bonus is a fundamental part of any build. The runes are losing that set bonus

If runes were keeping their set bonus, even if they lost some stats or whatever, and relics were an additional thing, no problem

But Relics are in essence another "rune slot" with slightly different rules. So now instead of 6 or 7 (for the few instances of water combat) runes to get the set bonus, you need 7 or 8 (for the few instances of water combat).

 

Probably Anet wants another system to make the game economy work and move. Maybe give another goal to players. But stripping current systems to create another one isn't great. I could even say "what current system will be next?", but Anet say they are looking into compensation, although not having thought this was a problem ahead of time is slightly worrisome, so I'll give them the benefit of doubt.

Now if Anet is looking into making Relics into a goal and/or resource sink, my suggestion would be having a legendary relic with some special effect and give players with 6/7 legendary runes a slumbering legendary relic with no effect, that would act as a discount to craft the full legendary relic.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Swoo.5079

[Hins.2489]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:24 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

still no answer yet?

[Infinity.1087]

July 4th is a pretty major holiday here in the US so I'm guessing most of the staff who can approve any decision on this issue are probably out of office. But I'm hoping we get a response sometime next week. 

[Geralt.7519]

 

2 hours ago, Swoo.5079 said:

But Relics are in essence another "rune slot" with slightly different rules. So now instead of 6 or 7 (for the few instances of water combat) runes to get the set bonus, you need 7 or 8 (for the few instances of water combat).

If they really wanted to just give players more freedom as they said, they could have easily achieved it by keeping the number of runes as they are and transforming the 6th into the relic instead of adding another slot.

But the way they're doing it, they're effectively adding vertical gear progression, nullifying the biggest selling point of the game.

All runes will be seriously devaluated with this move but that's something that should never happen to a legendary, only way to fix it is having a legendary relic as reward for crafting a set of runes, that's the only way to guarantee the same value runes have now and keep them something worth crafting for those who don't have them yet.

 

Just now, Infinity.1087 said:

July 4th is a pretty major holiday here in the US so I'm guessing most of the staff who can approve any decision on this issue are probably out of office. But I'm hoping we get a response sometime next week. 

That was 3 days ago, do they usually take the entire week off? (I'm not US).

[Thorne.9857]

4 hours ago, Swoo.5079 said:

I don't understand why there is an argument that this is an essential change to legendary runes.

A rune set bonus is a fundamental part of any build. The runes are losing that set bonus

If runes were keeping their set bonus, even if they lost some stats or whatever, and relics were an additional thing, no problem

But Relics are in essence another "rune slot" with slightly different rules. So now instead of 6 or 7 (for the few instances of water combat) runes to get the set bonus, you need 7 or 8 (for the few instances of water combat).

 

What people seem to be missing is that it's really more about the precedent than the specific thing being implemented.

Plenty of people have Prismatic Champion's Regalia or Transcendence. What if Anet decided to:

• Remove the Enrichment slot from amulets
• Create a new per-character Enrichment item slot called "Mystical Curio" which you needed to grind for like the Jade Bot core or the upcoming Relic
• Add an Infusion slot to the amulets they just removed the Enrichment slot from

 Or what if they:

• Remove Skyscale's ability to gain altitude naturally
• Create a new mastery that we have to unlock if Skyscale is meant to be able to gain altitude
• Replace their current ability with the ability to gain altitude by jumping into updrafts only

In either case, an account-wide reward unlocked by people who dedicated time and energy gets nerfed and stripped away. Both would constitute a change in the substance of these unlocks, both would result in people having to grind to bring back the same functionality as they had before, both would seem to go against the core design philosophy of the game.

Like you said, if Relics were simply "here's a new thing, go grind for it" none of us would be upset about the way Runes are getting screwed over, Legendary or not. People might be upset about them adding new stuff, but that's beyond the scope of my point here. Notice how no one is saying "Wow, you're letting skyscales use updrafts? What a ripoff" because it's adding something new without compromising the essence of what has already been unlocked. I assume if Anet added a new per-character "Mystical Curio" to let us equip a second Enrichment, people wouldn't be complaining about that either.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Thorne.9857

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

Hello everyone, we have been following this conversation and continuing to read your feedback since my last post, and I'm here to give you another quick update. Like other major elements of the expansion, we’re planning on providing more information on relics before launch. For relics specifically, we’re working to get that blog ready for publish on July 18—and because I know you’re wondering, that timeline is so we can write it, review it for accuracy, edit it, and translate it into all supported languages.

We know that the legendary rune compensation is of great interest to you, and we'll be sharing more of our plans about that in the blog post. While that's still coming, I want to clarify a bit about my note on compensation. This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

Finally, I want to thank you all for continuing to have this conversation and share your feedback with us. It’s been helpful and we all appreciate it.

[Swoo.5079]

Thanks for the update.

[Geralt.7519]

24 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello everyone, we have been following this conversation and continuing to read your feedback since my last post, and I'm here to give you another quick update. Like other major elements of the expansion, we’re planning on providing more information on relics before launch. For relics specifically, we’re working to get that blog ready for publish on July 18—and because I know you’re wondering, that timeline is so we can write it, review it for accuracy, edit it, and translate it into all supported languages.

We know that the legendary rune compensation is of great interest to you, and we'll be sharing more of our plans about that in the blog post. While that's still coming, I want to clarify a bit about my note on compensation. This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

Finally, I want to thank you all for continuing to have this conversation and share your feedback with us. It’s been helpful and we all appreciate it.

Thank you so much for the update!

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Thanks @Rubi Bayer.8493 That makes me feel slightly better that you guys understand our main reason for making runes: Never have to worry about armor upgrades again.

Waiting for the 18th now with anticipation

[Kulvar.1239]

I assume people with 6~7 legendary runes will have an extra relic choice box.

[Astralporing.1957]

53 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello everyone, we have been following this conversation and continuing to read your feedback since my last post, and I'm here to give you another quick update. Like other major elements of the expansion, we’re planning on providing more information on relics before launch. For relics specifically, we’re working to get that blog ready for publish on July 18—and because I know you’re wondering, that timeline is so we can write it, review it for accuracy, edit it, and translate it into all supported languages.

We know that the legendary rune compensation is of great interest to you, and we'll be sharing more of our plans about that in the blog post. While that's still coming, I want to clarify a bit about my note on compensation. This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

Finally, I want to thank you all for continuing to have this conversation and share your feedback with us. It’s been helpful and we all appreciate it.

The issue is so volatile, and so impactful for all legendary holders (both current and future), that i'm not sure if withholding informations that might pacify the situation for another 2 weeks just so you can format it nicely is a good approach. That is, of course, if the information you will give on 18th will be satisfactory enough to pacify the situation - based on your extremely vague wording now i can't be sure of that though.

You might consider throwing all the agitated people a bone and saying a bit more. of course, again, if the news are good.

Notice, that The question people are wondering about the most does not require you to share details of the system. All you need to answer is a simple thing: whether people with full legendary rune set will have their QoL reduced by introduction of relics and would need to farm for a new gear (let's call it "legendary relic", and ignore for the moment the second question about if or when such legendary relic might be introduced) to have that full functionality restored or will this functionality remain unchanged and undiminished to them with the Relic addition.

That's really all we ask. Please, don;t make us wait 2 weeks just to get an answer for that.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[vares.8457]

32 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

that i'm not sure if withholding informations that might pacify the situation for another 2 weeks just so you can format it nicely is a good approach.

It is not only about putting it in a nice format, it’s also about translating it so it can be understood by everyone. You may not know this (or you simply don’t care), but not everyone who plays the game is fluent in English. 
You will survive two more weeks, maybe go touch some grass. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by vares.8457

[Geralt.7519]

11 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

i'm not sure if withholding informations that might pacify the situation for another 2 weeks just so you can format it nicely is a good approach. That is, of course, if the information you will give on 18th will be satisfactory enough to pacify the situation - based on your extremely vague wording now i can't be sure of that though.

It's less than 2 weeks, it's fine, you can't expect them to rush it, they also need to translate it to other languages.

Whether the info they'll give will be satisfactory or not we can't tell now, just wait and see what they have to say.

[Ashen.2907]

5 hours ago, Geralt.7519 said:

That was 3 days ago, do they usually take the entire week off? (I'm not US).

Not normally.

Leaving early on the friday before and taking monday off in addition to the holiday itself would be well within the normal range.

That said, they made the announcement on Tues and would likely need to actually assess what they could do in response to the backlash before giving details. With much of the team working on finishing up the expac itself I would not be surprised if it took them a couple of weeks (of actual in office time) to put together an action plan solid enough to announce.

[Geralt.7519]

2 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

they made the announcement on Tues and would likely need to actually assess what they could do in response to the backlash before giving details. With much of the team working on finishing up the expac itself I would not be surprised if it took them a couple of weeks (of actual in office time) to put together an action plan solid enough to announce.

Well, they just answered in this thread, we'll know what they're planning on July 18th (blog post), we just have to wait.

[Pifil.5193]

1 hour ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

We know that the legendary rune compensation is of great interest to you, and we'll be sharing more of our plans about that in the blog post. While that's still coming, I want to clarify a bit about my note on compensation. This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system. We’ll have more details in that upcoming blog post.

Compensation

noun

something, typically money, awarded to someone in recognition of loss, suffering, or injury.

Is that really the right word here, Rubi?

If so it doesn't fill me with confidence that anything like a Legendary Relic is in the works.

[Nuunes.5046]

Quote

This will not be an unrelated item; it’s going to be part of the relics system.

I look forward to receiving a precursor item that I will still have to dump a lot of gold into it after I already did the work. That's what this means right?

If they truly were thinking of making a 'legendary relic' that can be shared across all of your characters for players that have already crafted at least 6 runes to preserve the existing functionality and quality of life we have, they wouldn't have to be all sneaky about it, they could just say 'Yeah, we will have this.' Or maybe 'each rune you made grants you X of the resources needed to craft the legendary relic' or something.

I will be a doomer and my version of bracing for the worst is this: They will release different 'legendary relics' and separate the bonuses into malicious, defensive, assaulter and healing just like they do for ascended armor boxesm, or treat them like the Gen 3 Weapon Variants. Unlock a 'basic' one, and then unlock the extra functionality.

That way they can create a gold and material sink, as well as make players experience the new content to drive up engagement, all the while giving you 1 of these legendary relics, or the 'basic' version and call it compensation.

I do hope my post here ages terribly, but all of this beating around the bush and buying time, shroudede wording and hoping people forget really smells like a bad time.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Nuunes.5046

[Geralt.7519]

2 minutes ago, Nuunes.5046 said:

If they truly were thinking of making a 'legendary relic' that can be shared across all of your characters for players that have already crafted at least 6 runes to preserve the existing functionality and quality of life we have, they wouldn't have to be all sneaky about it, they could just say 'Yeah, we will have this.' Or maybe 'each rune you made grants you X of the resources needed to craft the legendary relic' or something.

We don't know that, it's very possible Rubi is not allowed to make announcements outside of official announcements, that's how companies usually work.

Just wait for the blog post, it's still 1 month before launch, enough time to make our voices heard again if we don't like it.

[Healix.5819]

3 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

If so it doesn't fill me with confidence that anything like a Legendary Relic is in the works.

I wouldn't be surprised if the free one is legendary and the compensation is simply an extra one per rune. The catch is, it can't swap stats and instead serves as an unlock for the one you want.

[idpersona.3810]

Timing the post for right before going home for the weekend doesn't inspire confidence. But either way I suppose I'll just move onto my next legendary project. The runes (so far) don't sounds like they're worth crafting at this point in time.  I will also wait until the 18th announcement to decide on whether or not to pre-order SotO.
I'm glad there's some update, even if it's incredibly vague.