Will Relics invalidate legendary runes? [Merged]

[troy.3257]

I have been playing this game for almost 8 years. I have overlooked many changes. A lot of things I collected or mastered have become obsolete or useless. Or simply just given away to new players. I am sitting on tons of Hero Points and masteries from other expansions that will never be used. Every now and then I have to rebuild a toon or just park them because of "balance" patches. Its pretty frustrating when you have a toon all tweaked to perfection as you like it then its pretty much turned to a garbage build in a blink of a eye. Sometimes its even a challenge to come up with a work around after some of the bone head decisions made by devs. This change though is the biggest bone head decision yet.

We were PROMISED  top gear that we would grind would never become obsolete. Looks like to me Arena Net is breaking their word. I did not grind 7 runes for almost a year for chits and giggles. How can  I trust that you will not do this again to other things I have invested many hours of time and currency in?

I spend on average 10 dollars a week on gems but on occasion I spend much more ( More than I should on a online game). Over the period of 8 years it adds up. I am semi retired now and within a  few years I will be fully retired early and will have even more time and money to invest in the right MMO . I thought Guild Wars 2 was the game but maybe I have been mistaken. If this is the direction the game is headed for. All the gem store fluff is not worth a thing to me if the game is not fun or aggravating to deal with. The game is becoming more of the latter part recently.  If you do not want my business anymore just keep going down this path and I will gladly take it elsewhere.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by troy.3257

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

It isn't the only acceptable answer, and if they didn't realise they'd need to do it for the expansion, it may not be technically possible in the timeframe.

It doesn't have to. They don;t need to deliver a permanent solution for day one. They could make do with a temporary solution and a promise of a permanent one. Promise with specifics stated, and a date set. I believe many people will be fine with waiting for the followup patch, if (but only if) the solution given will be to their satisfaction. They'd better give an answer soon, however, because the potential consequences are affecting much more than just the runes and the next expac.

1 hour ago, troy.3257 said:

How can  I trust that you will not do this again to other things I have invested many hours of time and currency in?

Yep, that's the core of the issue. You can't - once a trust is broken once, it is broken forever.

[Endilbiach.4132]

There's a whole lotta angst in here that's ignoring the fact that @Rubi Bayer.8493 posted in this very thread about how they were aware of our concerns and were in the process of developing suitable compensation for us.

Until we know what that's gonna be, we all needa chill.

[troy.3257]

Yeah and that answer was CRAP. 

Oh we didnt realize this would upset people because well we just did not think of it sorry   DUHHHHHH. Give us time to throw some chit against the wall and see what sticks.

I mean if devs are this short sighted over such a big issue this will cause to veteran players well they are just plain ignorant. Does not give me a lot of confidence in the future development of GW2.

Edited July 5, 2023 by troy.3257

[MedievalThings.5417]

2 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

There's a whole lotta angst in here that's ignoring the fact that @Rubi Bayer.8493 posted in this very thread about how they were aware of our concerns and were in the process of developing suitable compensation for us.

Until we know what that's gonna be, we all needa chill.

People are still adding to this thread to voice concern about the wording of that post in particular.  People aren't looking for compensation, they are looking for identical function, which is the ability to change the 6th slot bonus any time they want on every character and build (soon to be the relic slot).  There is a very real possibility that Anet could decide 3 XP boosters is compensation, which would be more than a slap in the face.  They could decide to give people 350 gold for every legendary rune they already crafted, which wouldn't restore lost functionality but would at least cover the cost of the runes they just devalued.  People are VERY concerned that they aren't going to stop at taking functionality from legendary runes, but will eventually take things from other legendaries as well.

[Endilbiach.4132]

8 minutes ago, troy.3257 said:

Yeah and that answer was CRAP. 

Oh we didnt realize this would upset people because well we just did not think of it sorry   DUHHHHHH. Give us time to throw some chit against the wall and see what sticks.

I mean if devs are this short sighted over such a big issue this will cause to veteran players well they are just plain ignorant. Does not give me a lot of confidence in the future development of GW2.

That answer was 'crap' because there was nothing concrete yet, literally all they had that they could put out to the public was "we're aware and we're working on it."  If you're telling me you've never dived in deep to a project that you were excited about and got to what you thought was the end, but only then discovered some potentially catastrophic ramifications as a result of your work, you're either lying or haven't actually done much.

6 minutes ago, Ubi.4136 said:

People are still adding to this thread to voice concern about the wording of that post in particular.  People aren't looking for compensation, they are looking for identical function, which is the ability to change the 6th slot bonus any time they want on every character and build (soon to be the relic slot).  There is a very real possibility that Anet could decide 3 XP boosters is compensation, which would be more than a slap in the face.  They could decide to give people 350 gold for every legendary rune they already crafted, which wouldn't restore lost functionality but would at least cover the cost of the runes they just devalued.  People are VERY concerned that they aren't going to stop at taking functionality from legendary runes, but will eventually take things from other legendaries as well.

I respect people adding their voices to the conversation, I too am concerned about the utility being stripped from my leggie runes.

But my response to the concerns that they'll somehow remove functionality from other leggies is this: how could they do that?  Without completely overhauling the equipment system through the entire game, or a complete overhaul of stat sets like when they got rid of magic find as a gear stat, there's no realistic way to split apart any other leggie and spread its effects over more items like has happened here, only Runes have the level of multi-tier interaction and dependency with the variety of effects that they do.

And finally, if we look at the trajectory of their development methods over the last couple of years we see a trend of making the game and leggies in general more accessible and user friendly, not less.

Now, if we could get some movement on actual accessibility features like color blind modes and such, that'd be great.  They're behind...I think every other MMO on that front.

[troy.3257]

IF  I sold a product that needed a certain tool and said " This tool will always work with this product and never become outdated." A few years later come along and say yeah that tool well its useless now sorry so your gonna have to buy a new one now and not EXPECT people to be upset well then who is lying now?

 

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 minute ago, troy.3257 said:

IF  I sold a product that needed a certain tool and said " This tool will always work with this product and never become outdated." A few years later come along and say yeah that tool well its useless now sorry so your gonna have to buy a new one now and not EXPECT people to be upset well then who is lying now?

 

Tell ya what, when they actually implement this in a way that directly reflects what you just said I'll admit I was wrong.  But I have lost count of the number of times they've announced some feature well in advance, and made significant adjustments to it based on player feedback both before and after it was implemented.  I don't really expect this time to be any different, so shouting "liar" at the top of your lungs is not only premature but downright childish.

[troy.3257]

Your the one that bought up the topic of lying and in fact called me one, so if anyone is acting childish its YOU.    GOOD DAY sir 

[Endilbiach.4132]

3 hours ago, troy.3257 said:

We were PROMISED  top gear that we would grind would never become obsolete. Looks like to me Arena Net is breaking their word. I did not grind 7 runes for almost a year for chits and giggles. How can  I trust that you will not do this again to other things I have invested many hours of time and currency in?

Gonna go with nope.

[idpersona.3810]

On 6/28/2023 at 4:24 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I want to give you a quick response on this since it's of interest to so many of you! We're working on some more in-depth information to share with you, but in the meantime I can let you know that we are aware of your concerns that the Relics mechanic devalues Legendary Runes. We want to make sure we address those concerns, and we're finalizing a plan to compensate those of you who spent time and energy acquiring those Legendary Runes.

We'll be back with more details soon--thank you all for your feedback on Secrets of the Obscure and your excitement for Tuesday's announcement!

It's been a week now. I know the US had a holiday weekend, but just wondering if/when we'll get some insight or follow-up into what's going on.

[Endilbiach.4132]

1 minute ago, idpersona.3810 said:

It's been a week now. I know the US had a holiday weekend, but just wondering if/when we'll get some insight or follow-up into what's going on.

Today would be the first day they'd be back from that, and I'm not sure we should expect an update before the...is the balance update patch coming the 18th?  Whenever that patch is.

If they really had nothing in the pipeline they first need to actually put together proposed solutions and ensure that they can actually deliver them.

Or...you wind up with waiting how many years for Alliances?

[idpersona.3810]

1 minute ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Today would be the first day they'd be back from that, and I'm not sure we should expect an update before the...is the balance update patch coming the 18th?  Whenever that patch is.

If they really had nothing in the pipeline they first need to actually put together proposed solutions and ensure that they can actually deliver them.

Or...you wind up with waiting how many years for Alliances?

Oh okay. Fair enough. I didn't know what the days off would be. Some new item got released yesterday, so it seemed to me they were working. Likely different people though.

Mostly, there just several threads dealing with this and people are still arguing on them, and more information would at least put that part to rest.

Personally, I'd really like to just be excited about the upcoming expansion, but this particular point is a black mark on that. Waiting to hear back on this has put my in game plans on hold (I would have crafted the 6 runes this weekend) and I'm not going forward purchasing the expansion until some plan is in place for the legendary runes either way.

[Endilbiach.4132]

Just now, idpersona.3810 said:

Oh okay. Fair enough. I didn't know what the days off would be. Some new item got released yesterday, so it seemed to me they were working. Likely different people though.

Mostly, there just several threads dealing with this and people are still arguing on them, and more information would at least put that part to rest.

Personally, I'd really like to just be excited about the upcoming expansion, but this particular point is a black mark on that. Waiting to hear back on this has put my in game plans on hold (I would have crafted the 6 runes this weekend) and I'm not going forward purchasing the expansion until some plan is in place for the legendary runes either way.

As for the new stuff being released yesterday, patches and updates are generally put in a pipeline on Friday nights before the Tuesday they're scheduled to launch, we learned this during the fiasco that was the appalling patch of 28 June, 2022.  That's functionally automated, but I'm sure that some support staff were still in the offices doing their jobs, as you can't just abandon a game like this for 4 straight days and expect to come back to anything other than a heap of slag.

Personally I'm excited for a.) a return to core Tyrian stuff, b.) answers about the Wizard's Tower finally and the opening of the door to maybe solving other long-standing mysteries (some of which were mothballed or semi-retconned potential future storylines, like Malik's Tree if you played Sylvari), and c.) Open World Leggie Armor.

I absolutely understand and to a certain extent agree with holding off on making those leggie runes until we know more, frankly I'm advising everyone to just start hoarding mats and gold for now (while ignoring that advice myself, still making leggie weapons because I'm addicted now), but I am definitely pre-ordering the expansion.  I won't tell you to of course, because that's for each person to decide themselves, and outside of GW2 I am firmly opposed to pre-ordering any game throughout the entire industry right now given how egregious business practices that involve pre-orders and pre-order bonuses have gotten over the last decade.  

[idpersona.3810]

3 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

As for the new stuff being released yesterday, patches and updates are generally put in a pipeline on Friday nights before the Tuesday they're scheduled to launch, we learned this during the fiasco that was the appalling patch of 28 June, 2022.  That's functionally automated, but I'm sure that some support staff were still in the offices doing their jobs, as you can't just abandon a game like this for 4 straight days and expect to come back to anything other than a heap of slag.

That's good to know. Makes sense...I just wasn't aware.

3 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

Personally I'm excited for a.) a return to core Tyrian stuff, b.) answers about the Wizard's Tower finally and the opening of the door to maybe solving other long-standing mysteries (some of which were mothballed or semi-retconned potential future storylines, like Malik's Tree if you played Sylvari), and c.) Open World Leggie Armor.

I'm excited about all those things as well. If not for the rune/relic issue, I think I would have an overwhelmingly positive outlook on the expansion.

3 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

I absolutely understand and to a certain extent agree with holding off on making those leggie runes until we know more, frankly I'm advising everyone to just start hoarding mats and gold for now (while ignoring that advice myself, still making leggie weapons because I'm addicted now), but I am definitely pre-ordering the expansion.  I won't tell you to of course, because that's for each person to decide themselves, and outside of GW2 I am firmly opposed to pre-ordering any game throughout the entire industry right now given how egregious business practices that involve pre-orders and pre-order bonuses have gotten over the last decade.  

I play enough that I think I have a decent horde built up (good amount of mats and gold). I've been crafting about a legendary a month lately, if not a bit quicker. This week should have been the runes. I just don't know if I should just move onto the next crafting project (gen 3 pistol) or make the rune set. I do imagine I will pre-order, but I also think it's worth holding off until there's a solution in place for this. How they handle this will absolutely set a precedent, for better or worse. So being vocal on here and voting will your wallet seems about the best course of actions that can be done at the moment. Either way though, my in game plans seem to be on hold for some indeterminate amount of time.

[Endilbiach.4132]

3 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I just don't know if I should just move onto the next crafting project (gen 3 pistol) or make the rune set.

I am having very similar problems.  I don't really wanna be left hanging for literal months when it comes to knowing what I need for my next major project, but I also don't want to work on other things and then regret it down the road because I need things that I just spent and are more difficult to get.

I think a lot of people are holding off pre-ordering until we get an answer on runes/relics, and I think that's frankly pretty reasonable.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

This week should have been the runes. I just don't know if I should just move onto the next crafting project (gen 3 pistol) or make the rune set.

At this point it's better to withhold all further legendary crafting till the case with runes will be clarified, and only consider it again after we'll all know the new baseline for legendaries (and whether they are still protected from geat grind or is that protection going away now).

[vares.8457]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

At this point it's better to withhold all further legendary crafting till the case with runes will be clarified, and only consider it again after we'll all know the new baseline for legendaries (and whether they are still protected from geat grind or is that protection going away now).

Wow so dramatic. I am currently crafting a legendary weapon 

Edited July 5, 2023 by vares.8457

[Astralporing.1957]

6 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

Wow so dramatic. I am currently crafting a legendary weapon 

Then you'd probably want to know what are chances the next expansion might, for example, shift all the stats on weapons (apart from the base damage value) to some different, completely new item, would you not?

[idpersona.3810]

12 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

I am having very similar problems.  I don't really wanna be left hanging for literal months when it comes to knowing what I need for my next major project, but I also don't want to work on other things and then regret it down the road because I need things that I just spent and are more difficult to get.

I think a lot of people are holding off pre-ordering until we get an answer on runes/relics, and I think that's frankly pretty reasonable.

For expansion prep, I think the only thing I'm doing differently is saving my WvW potions. I have to imagine there will be a few new tracks released and it seems like a good idea to have enough potions to finish off a few instantly. Other than that we'll need some sort of time gated stuffs for legendary armor crafting, which isn't set to release until the second expansion drop. So I'm not too worried about that.
If we don't get some sort of follow up soon, I guess I'll just move onto the next legendary crafting and keep the resources I had slated for the runes on the side. The prices of charms is likely going to be somewhat volatile coming up. There's no real way of knowing if they're going to tank or sky rocket, depending on whatever is going to happen on actual expansion release.

10 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

At this point it's better to withhold all further legendary crafting till the case with runes will be clarified, and only consider it again after we'll all know the new baseline for legendaries (and whether they are still protected from geat grind or is that protection going away now).

Eh. I'm going to craft legendaries either way I think. For me, it's just a matter of priority. I like not having to grind out ascendeds for all of my new 80s. And I think having access to multiple geared characters can only be a good thing when the expansion comes. For now anyways, I don't think the overall gear grind is going to be affected. This is a very targeted issue.

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

That answer was 'crap' because there was nothing concrete yet, literally all they had that they could put out to the public was "we're aware and we're working on it."  If you're telling me you've never dived in deep to a project that you were excited about and got to what you thought was the end, but only then discovered some potentially catastrophic ramifications as a result of your work, you're either lying or haven't actually done much.

I respect people adding their voices to the conversation, I too am concerned about the utility being stripped from my leggie runes.

But my response to the concerns that they'll somehow remove functionality from other leggies is this: how could they do that?  Without completely overhauling the equipment system through the entire game, or a complete overhaul of stat sets like when they got rid of magic find as a gear stat, there's no realistic way to split apart any other leggie and spread its effects over more items like has happened here, only Runes have the level of multi-tier interaction and dependency with the variety of effects that they do.

And finally, if we look at the trajectory of their development methods over the last couple of years we see a trend of making the game and leggies in general more accessible and user friendly, not less.

Now, if we could get some movement on actual accessibility features like color blind modes and such, that'd be great.  They're behind...I think every other MMO on that front.

A legendary weapon could have only one of the stats (currently usually 3 or 4) with the other 2 to 3 split off into Mystic Pommel, Arcane Sheath, and Eldritch Engraving.

So your (currently) Berzerker Legendary Greatsword would have its damage and Power. You would then have to earn and equip Precision and Ferocity components separately.

Note that I am not suggesting that they would do this, just that it wouldnt necessarily be more complicated or difficult than Relics as described.

[Geralt.7519]

58 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

I absolutely understand and to a certain extent agree with holding off on making those leggie runes until we know more

Unfortunately I've done all 7 already but I did indeed put on hold all my legendary future plans, whether I resume them or not will totally depend on Anet answer to this.

I'm also holding off my preorder for the same reason.

[Astralporing.1957]

18 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

For now anyways, I don't think the overall gear grind is going to be affected. This is a very targeted issue.

I guess that's the difference. I do not look at it as a singular event that will likely never repeat. On the contrary, i see it as a pivotal event that might decide whether such cases are going to become a new norm from now on or not. That is why i see it as so important.

[Geralt.7519]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I guess that's the difference. I do not look at it as a singular event that will likely never repeat. On the contrary, i see it as a pivotal event that might decide whether such cases are going to become a new norm from now on or not. That is why i see it as so important.

Exactly. Getting away with devaluing a legendary opens the door to do it again.

[idpersona.3810]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I guess that's the difference. I do not look at it as a singular event that will likely never repeat. On the contrary, i see it as a pivotal event that might decide whether such cases are going to become a new norm from now on or not. That is why i see it as so important.

Oh I actually agree with you. To clarify, I think it is a singular event "for now". Depending on how this goes, precedent can/will be set. But until we hear their follow up plan I don't want to be too doom and gloom about it. I am hoping for a positive outcome from all of this. Like, I hope they will handle this well and have all or most current rune holders be happy. But I am taking the wait and see approach. The waiting though, with no timeline for more of a response, slowly wares away the optimism for me.