GW2 is losing class distinction. That's bad for balance.

[SolarDragon.7063]

With all classes getting all main support boons and all classes getting all their weapons... GW2 is rapidly losing the balance space for anything to actually be unique, which also means that the "best" option in each category (DPS, boondps, boonheals) is going to be less avoidable since there's not going to be situations where X does more raw healing but Y does better with Z mechanics... everyone gets everything, so the numbers become king.
The main support boons on each class is probably a good thing, but secondary boons are hugely unequal, which again makes the "best" options stand out MORE, not less.
Overall, this balance direction feels like it's turning into "pick a colour and pretend it matters" but also making the "meta" options less and less avoidable at the same time. This patch has made a bunch of classes feel much more generic to play, and the ones it hasn't have had awful changes.

[kharmin.7683]

Well, it's a case of not being careful about what is wished for.  There have been many threads asking for this.

[Luthan.5236]

I don't dislike it. Mainly playing open world PvE where this already is not a big issue. In pro group content ... might it not - while it makes it some classes more unique (them then being afraid of not being accepted in a progamer group anymore) - also be easier for everyone to to everything ... on the other hand then making it easy for everyone to get into any group.

(I anything ... it might make it less relevant to play an alt char ... giving ArenaNet more incentive to make changes again to make classes more unique. To sell more char slots lol. If you don't have enough already from the expansions where they come for free with some editions.)

[SlayerXX.7138]

Did Harvest temple normal mode today. The commander needed to sort out who doesn't get to play boon dps, as almost everyone was willing and able to provide the boons. I see that as a win.

[Juan.6124]

If everyone can do everything, show us how you do pushing at Soulless Horror with a thief.

Edited July 2, 2023 by DirtyDan.4759

[Urud.4925]

In theory there are more options now, but in reality I always see the same specs in organised group content. In the past we had a pretty mandatory duo (like the old chrono-druid), then the rest could fill quite freely. Now basically everyone can provide important boons, but people will obviously choose the spec that is able to provide them without smashing too many buttons, because playing watching your skillbar instead of the boss is not that satisfying. So it's a kinda fake variety.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Urud.4925

[JTGuevara.9018]

7 hours ago, SolarDragon.7063 said:

With all classes getting all main support boons and all classes getting all their weapons... GW2 is rapidly losing the balance space for anything to actually be unique, which also means that the "best" option in each category (DPS, boondps, boonheals) is going to be less avoidable since there's not going to be situations where X does more raw healing but Y does better with Z mechanics... everyone gets everything, so the numbers become king.
The main support boons on each class is probably a good thing, but secondary boons are hugely unequal, which again makes the "best" options stand out MORE, not less.
Overall, this balance direction feels like it's turning into "pick a colour and pretend it matters" but also making the "meta" options less and less avoidable at the same time. This patch has made a bunch of classes feel much more generic to play, and the ones it hasn't have had awful changes.

And warrior is about to lose its entire class. Everybody is a "weapon master" now...

Edited July 2, 2023 by JTGuevara.9018
typo

[Bookah pls.9352]

1 hour ago, DirtyDan.4759 said:

If everyone can do everything, show us how you do pushing at Soulless Horror with a thief.

I'm not saying it's good or practical by any means but you probably could get by on normal with scorpion wire pulls, sword/pistol for immob and stun and have wells for mobility + another pull that locks it in place. You wouldn't have the pools off the edges like druid can manage but still.

[Mimizu.7340]

It reminds me of the original Guild Wars,

having the ability to slot any skills you wanted from more than one class.

I can't say that's a bad thing,

I liked the system.

[ugrakarma.9416]

8 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Well, it's a case of not being careful about what is wished for.  There have been many threads asking for this.

yes, i have been talking about this for years.

ppls asked for hybrids "Gez i wanna play a magic warrior with staff, and dacing like a ballerina throwing a pink magic, instead of a hammer".

not they have it.

[Gehenna.3625]

23 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Well, it's a case of not being careful about what is wished for.  There have been many threads asking for this.

I don't think you can assume that the people who wished for changes asked for the exact same thing and that Anet implemented it in the way that was asked for. The problem is the definition of "this". It's not as exact as you make it out to be.

[kharmin.7683]

5 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I don't think you can assume that the people who wished for changes asked for the exact same thing and that Anet implemented it in the way that was asked for. The problem is the definition of "this". It's not as exact as you make it out to be.

That was the point.  People asking for changes and Anet implementing different changes than what was requested.

[Imperial.8471]

The problem is not that every class can handle any of the main roles (boon, heal, dps). That's actually a good thing and part of GW2's design since its conception. 

The problem is that to get there Anet is forcing said roles at the wrong place (alac on Scourge barrier and Druid CA meant to be reactive healing) and removes each class' dictinctive features as a compensation for their weird idea of balance. Necromancer lost its boon corruption and reviving power. But it has alac now ! Warrior is not the weapon master anymore, and most of its weapon skills suck. But hey, it has quick and alac !

[Gaiawolf.8261]

21 hours ago, Imperial.8471 said:

The problem is not that every class can handle any of the main roles (boon, heal, dps). That's actually a good thing and part of GW2's design since its conception. 

The problem is that to get there Anet is forcing said roles at the wrong place (alac on Scourge barrier and Druid CA meant to be reactive healing) and removes each class' dictinctive features as a compensation for their weird idea of balance. Necromancer lost its boon corruption and reviving power. But it has alac now ! Warrior is not the weapon master anymore, and most of its weapon skills suck. But hey, it has quick and alac !

This is the way.

Anet is trying too hard to make each class's method of delivering boons to feel unique, that they are killing the unique feel that the classes already had. I really dislike this focus on boons, especially quick and alac. It feels like it consumes the whole design concept.

Most players don't even dedicate themselves to quick or alac anyway, so these design decisions come off doubly weird and clunky for them.

[Jobber.6348]

 

21 hours ago, Imperial.8471 said:

The problem is not that every class can handle any of the main roles (boon, heal, dps). That's actually a good thing and part of GW2's design since its conception. 

The problem is that to get there Anet is forcing said roles at the wrong place (alac on Scourge barrier and Druid CA meant to be reactive healing) and removes each class' dictinctive features as a compensation for their weird idea of balance. Necromancer lost its boon corruption and reviving power. But it has alac now ! Warrior is not the weapon master anymore, and most of its weapon skills suck. But hey, it has quick and alac !

The funny thing is that even after all they've done, there's still class imbalance and bias based on how effective they can output quick/alac without affecting their playstyle. Harb. Mechanist, Renegade, Firebrand to name a few are able to upkeep their boons and more without changing their playstyle at all, while having much better uptime. Scourge and Druid in particular need to sacrifice and burn so much and not even achieve 100% boon uptime. This is just straight up hilarious to me.

What balance is going on in the devs' head? Or, the more shocking truth: they don't actually test these changes. 

[Kozumi.5816]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:17 AM, SolarDragon.7063 said:

Overall, this balance direction feels like it's turning into "pick a colour and pretend it matters" but also making the "meta" options less and less avoidable at the same time. This patch has made a bunch of classes feel much more generic to play, and the ones it hasn't have had awful changes.

ff14 brain rot. these devs love ff14

  

1 hour ago, Yasai.3549 said:

The funny thing is that even after all they've done, there's still class imbalance and bias based on how effective they can output quick/alac without affecting their playstyle. Harb. Mechanist, Renegade, Firebrand to name a few are able to upkeep their boons and more without changing their playstyle at all, while having much better uptime. Scourge and Druid in particular need to sacrifice and burn so much and not even achieve 100% boon uptime. This is just straight up hilarious to me.

They refuse to stop dong this, too. We've been telling them for nearly two years this is an issue yet they keep releasing buffers that BARELY meet 100% uptime and have to play mental gymnastics just to accomplish the same as other specs do with 0-1 button presses.

Guess which specs everyone plays? The 0-1 button press buffers. Do they not realize this or are they this out of touch?

Edited July 4, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:17 AM, SolarDragon.7063 said:

With all classes getting all main support boons and all classes getting all their weapons... GW2 is rapidly losing the balance space for anything to actually be unique,

Those two things are different. One is a homogenization procedure the other is not, in the manner that Obtena said (on another thread). Standardizing boon distribution does not open up new possibilities (which leads to no change in the number of diverse states the game could have) it dilutes what skills do.
 

Introducing options is the opposite. It changes the number of total possible states (combinations), many of those states are diverse states.

A-net is just really bad at having a consistent non-self contradictory design Philosophy. But it’s important to be an informed person and not to lump these two things together cause they aren’t of the same caliber of changes

Edited July 4, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Kozumi.5816]

Just now, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

A-net is just really bad at having a consistent non-self contradictory design Philosophy.

This is due to blatant favoritism/bias towards and against certain classes.

There is proof of this, too.

[Jski.6180]

Well the best way to make sure the class dose not look distinction with in the given elite spec is to make sure the powerful boon is something you must give up an effect for. BUT it seems any thing that makes you chose to take an effect but to lose another effect cause out rages in the gw2 form community.

[Raarsi.6798]

This is one more reason why quickness and alac should just be removed from the game.  Devs seem to be trying to tie themselves in knots with fast, minor solutions like what they've done with those buffs that just feel like they're putting a band-aid on someone who lost a foot and telling them to walk it off.

Not sure I'd go so far as to say it's "losing class distinction", but the illusion of it is a symptom to the greater problem.