Relics Bring New Equipment to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[Acheron.1580]

3 minutes ago, Vortus.2801 said:

The expansion costs $25 and gives you hundreds or thousands of hours of gameplay. Are you really going to decide whether to buy an expansion based on something like a legendary relic? I don't think so.

There are a lot of reasons I don't want to buy the expansion. I don't want to feel strongarmed into paying money for a feature that they removed and then placed behind a paywall. Literally nobody is saying what you are implying.

Also the hundreds or thousands of hours seems a little unrealistic. Look at Gyala Delves.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[psizone.8437]

Just now, Vortus.2801 said:

The expansion costs $25 and gives you hundreds or thousands of hours of gameplay. Are you really going to decide whether to buy an expansion based on something like a legendary relic? I don't think so.

It could also give players 5-10 hours of gameplay.

There are plenty of WvW and sPvP only players that will hop in for the story and never touch it again and the value of the expansion to them is mostly tied to things like runes, relics and the new weaponmaster training.

[Graymatter.4723]

4 minutes ago, Vortus.2801 said:

The expansion costs $25 and gives you hundreds or thousands of hours of gameplay. Are you really going to decide whether to buy an expansion based on something like a legendary relic? I don't think so.

This is also true. The expansion will certainly offer a lot of value because it doesn't cost a lot. It still doesn't set a good precedent to take away some ability and then add it back in a way that requires an expansion.

[Vortus.2801]

1 minute ago, Acheron.1580 said:

There are a lot of reasons I don't want to buy the expansion. I don't want to feel strongarmed into paying money for a feature that they removed and then placed behind a paywall. Literally nobody is saying what you are implying.

Also the hundreds or thousands of hours seems a little unrealistic. Look at Gyala Delves.

You compare Gyala Map with an expansion with:

- Biggest reward improvements in 11 years of GW2
- Fractal + Cm
- Strike + Cm
- New weapons for all classes
- Weapon master
- New Legendary armor set
- 3 maps
- The lore what we are waiting to know something about since 18 years ago
- New masteries for Skyscale
- New freature: Relics

Yes, you've definitely just proven that you complain just for the sake of complaining. This concludes our interaction. Goodbye and take care.

[Graymatter.4723]

2 minutes ago, psizone.8437 said:

It could also give players 5-10 hours of gameplay.

There are plenty of WvW and sPvP only players that will hop in for the story and never touch it again and the value of the expansion to them is mostly tied to things like runes, relics and the new weaponmaster training.

As someone who spends a lot of my time in WvW. The value of the expansion is certainly tied to things like new stat combinations and builds. In this case, it would be new weapon combinations. I would love to try out a great sword power harb, as an example. I normally only do the story much later. It's still not a lot of money for most western countries considering the value included with the expansion.

[EnemyCrusher.7324]

7 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Can you explain the note about “choice of three core relics”?

• When we say "your choice of three relics,” we mean that you’ll get to choose a total of three relics (exact number subject to change, but that’s our current plan) from among the available core relics.

Is this per level 80 character or are those of us with 2-3 equipment templates on characters of each class going to be left with only a fraction of what we need to maintain the functionality that we already had?

Edited July 21, 2023 by EnemyCrusher.7324

[Bookah pls.9352]

18 minutes ago, Vortus.2801 said:

The expansion costs $25 and gives you hundreds or thousands of hours of gameplay. Are you really going to decide whether to buy an expansion based on something like a legendary relic? I don't think so.

The precedent of making me buy an expansion so that i can reacquire/repurchase a quality of life feature i've already paid for in game will absolutely factor in to my decision to continue to play a game i'm already growing tired of due to current balance change directions and new content quality.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Bookah pls.9352
New content quality.

[Kulvar.1239]

44 minutes ago, cat.8975 said:

So the legendary rune recipe is going to become cheaper to reflect the loss of functionality, right?

ANet need to clarify that.

After the release of the legendary relic:

1. The legendary runes become cheaper to craft
2. The legendary runes grant progress toward the legendary relic, making the legendary relic grant progress toward the remaining legendary runes
3. The legendary relic require having the legendary runes.
4. People who did not made legendary runes will be punished

[psizone.8437]

1 minute ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

It's still not a lot of money for most western countries considering the value included with the expansion.

I personally don't have an issue with the price.

I was only really commenting because it sounds like he thinks that just because you could get thousands of hours of content out of it, that someone shouldn't voice their wariness about buying it due to some of the changes that could be detrimental to their enjoyment of the game.

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

2 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• Why only "progress towards," rather than rewarding the relic itself? 
  • The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.

But that means you invalidated the previous progress of the runes that could select the current abilities.  You violated your own game design/philosophy in doing so.  You still removed the functionality of the legendary rune stat/special effect ability selection in the process.  So instead of finding a solution that lets people keep their current functionality, you remove that functionality and now someone needs to wait another year for them to get "significant progress" toward the legendary relic special effect selection. 

[Bookah pls.9352]

43 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

I have mixed feelings about the relics. I do not own legendary runes, but I can understand the concern people with legendary runes have with this change. They made these runes for a reason, and one of these reasons will now be taken away. 

On one side, it seems like this change will open up for more interesting build variations, and I’m curious what it will add to the game. 

On the other side, I’m sceptical because it’s such a massive change and we know too little about it at this point. I’ll wait until it releases and we know more about this before I make my judgment about relics. It can be a good change, or a really terrible one. 

The concept of relics is fantastic, i'm all for it.

It's anet's execution of how they are handling the transition that i'm not thrilled about.

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

2 minutes ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

The concept of relics is fantastic, i'm all for it.

It's anet's execution of how they are handling the transition that i'm not thrilled about.

A good solution would be to let people keep their current legendary runes and then have some procedure for upgrading the final legendary rune into a relic when the time is ready.  It is still sketchy because their pretzel logic is that since they are adding "more special effects", therefore your current legendary rune which can select those current effects, has now become outdated.  Therefore you need to update your current rune into a relic for these new effects.  But again the purpose of the legendary rune was to never have to worry about upgrading again for any future special effects.  It was in effect "future proof". 

[Gorem.8104]

21 minutes ago, Vortus.2801 said:

The expansion costs $25 and gives you hundreds or thousands of hours of gameplay. Are you really going to decide whether to buy an expansion based on something like a legendary relic? I don't think so.

Actually yes, this is 100% true as those "hours" of gameplay don't matter at all to someone like myself after IBS/EoD were both handled poorly, as evidenced by the fact if you spoke out against how bad the EoD story was you got censored here. If they have to defend their story by silencing people, they don't get my money and the games story ended in LW4. Fortunately there is already a lot of game to play prior to EoD so the games still enjoyable without the "new" stuff that gets abandoned quickly as EoD zones launched dead. 

[Bookah pls.9352]

1 minute ago, Jookerts.8071 said:

So you're just crying because they won't compensate you?  xDD

If you literally scroll up a couple of posts you would see me state:

The precedent of making me buy an expansion so that i can reacquire/repurchase a quality of life feature i've already paid for in game will absolutely factor in to my decision to continue to play a game i'm already growing tired of due to current balance change directions and new content quality.

First post, definitely not an alt account created to troll, not at all.

[Mor The Thief.9135]

2 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all, I've got a few more answers to questions we've seen frequently. I'll add these to my original post as well:

• Do we need 7 or will 6 that everyone crafted be enough towards the progress? 
  • We recognize most players will have only crafted up to 6 runes, but for players that have crafted seven, the extra effort will be recognized. That said, there is no requirement to make 7 legendary runes.
     
• Why only "progress towards," rather than rewarding the relic itself? 
  • The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.
     
•  Is the relic choice box granted to each character over level 60, or do you get one per account?  
  • The relic choice box is granted per character.

Many thanks for answering one of the main questions people have asked here regarding Legendary Runes->Legendary Relics progression.

 

If I may, can we get some estimate on how much of additional progress towards Legendary Relic will we get depending on how many Legendary Runes crafted? i.e. crafting all 7 Legendary Runes will give us something like above 50% progress towards Legendary Relic whilst crafting 1-2 will only net something like 5%-20%? Not asking for exact values, just estimates/range...

Edited July 21, 2023 by Mor The Thief.9135

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

2 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.

If I apply this logic to other things I could see an expansion adding an extra stat or ability to armor.  And therefore instead of regular legendary armor now you need SUPER DUPER legendary armor to get the new stat or ability.  Is that the current design/philosophy at ArenaNet?

I reminds me of the SpongeBob episode "This is not your everyday ordinary darkness, this is .... advanced darkness".

Edited July 21, 2023 by MuscleBobBuffPants.1406

[Aaron.9650]

9 minutes ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

If you literally scroll up a couple of posts you would see me state:

The precedent of making me buy an expansion so that i can reacquire/repurchase a quality of life feature i've already paid for in game will absolutely factor in to my decision to continue to play a game i'm already growing tired of due to current balance change directions and new content quality.

First post, definitely not an alt account created to troll, not at all.

I'm confused, the changes in balance are one of the points that demonstrate the change in quality for the better in recent years, don't you like that now they give importance to the current state of the classes?

[DarkShadow.7104]

2 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all, I've got a few more answers to questions we've seen frequently. I'll add these to my original post as well:

• Why only "progress towards," rather than rewarding the relic itself? 
  • The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.

I get that's the way you (as Anet, not you personally) see relics: it's a new whole system.

The way players (at least those with concerns about relics on this post) see it is as runes revamp (6th rune bonus is obsolete). And, cherry on top, to making it flexible you get that bonus and place it on another piece of gear. But that's not a new system, it's one that already exists and it's getting updated.

 

No matter how much effort you put on it, how you approach the matter, what kind of marketing you try to convince a significant part of the playerbase, players will still be thinking you are revamping runes and make them pay twice just because you updated them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure no one here is against relics. In fact I truly believe that lot of us (if not everyone) are looking into the system as something pretty interesting. But I also think there's no way you can tell us you take something existing and give it back changed and people won't complain.

 

PS: Sometimes we can't appreciate the value of something if we don't have knowledge about what was the process of designing, developing, failing, testing and shipping that something. Would be great to have a deep dev insight some time shortly after the legendary relic release with how the idea started, what were all the initial concepts and options, what troubles you found during the development, how you dealt with the backlash, what changes were done after the community spoke, etc

Edited July 21, 2023 by DarkShadow.7104
PS

[Crash.5486]

All in all this can be a cool feature to see in gw. But sadly Anet has a horrible track record so I'm extremely worried about how this will go. That being said I still feel they should push relics back untill they are done with the legendary relic. I do not want to sit here with exotic relics and struggle with different builds for God knows how long. Yes they say somewhere next year but since when do they keep a promise like that?  If that was the case, I would be way more ok with that.  I made all legendary runes, sigils and armors for a reason. I'm still working on all legendary weapons but I lost the will to play with this news. 

[Graymatter.4723]

10 minutes ago, Mor The Thief.9135 said:

If I may, can we get some estimate on how much of additional progress towards Legendary Relic will we get depending on how many Legendary Runes crafted? i.e. crafting all 7 Legendary Runes will give us something like above 50% progress towards Legendary Relic whilst crafting 1-2 will only net something like 5%-20%? Not asking for exact values, just estimates/range...

The problem is that I don't think they can answer. For example, if they give you all of the mats but you still need to do a bunch of achievements then that is 100% of the mats but 0% of the achievements. The answer to the question is just as subjective as "substantial". For me, mats are easy but a bunch of achievements are annoying. For someone else, the mats might be the problem but the achievements are easy.

[Bookah pls.9352]

   

36 minutes ago, MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 said:

A good solution would be to let people keep their current legendary runes and then have some procedure for upgrading the final legendary rune into a relic when the time is ready.  It is still sketchy because their pretzel logic is that since they are adding "more special effects", therefore your current legendary rune which can select those current effects, has now become outdated.  Therefore you need to update your current rune into a relic for these new effects.  But again the purpose of the legendary rune was to never have to worry about upgrading again for any future special effects.  It was in effect "future proof". 

They are revamping the 6th rune slots bonus power and at the same time removing it from the runes which allows rune stat choices to be more flexible rather than being the same couple of choices for most builds because the 6th bonus is so powerful. It's a great move and by the sounds of it they are going to be doing so much more to the bonuses in general, i'm all for that.

But in doing so they've removed some of the quality of life features the legendary runes were crafted by us for, all that's needed is to keep that continuity we paid for, give the legendary relic for 6+ rune holders, since relic is it's own slot and no longer needed for the aquatic helm 7th rune slot it's created a problem of how is the 7th slot compensated, that's its own issue which i think could be alleviated entirely by bringing in an often requested legendary aquatic helm and giving the 7th slot holders like myself a little jump start on that since that slot is why we even have 7 runes, instead of the currently proposed bigger jumpstart on the relic than the 6 rune holders.

Instead anet are for some reason digging their heels in and improperly compensating those who have 6 runes less than a full relic, while giving 7 rune holders the compensation 6 holders should be getting. All this talk they are doing about the relic having more effects introduced over time is worthless, it's no different to legendary armor, trinkets and weapons gaining expansion stats when expansions are released. Then you have the fact they are stating we have to wait until an unknown quarter of 2024 to even get the relic, that could be over a year away if it ends up Q4 of 2024, expansion is a month away....

Then you have the currently hypothetical but possible situation that the legendary relic might require the expansion to get, meaning a quality of life that you've already paid for would require you to buy an expansion to repurchase/reacquire it.

 

22 minutes ago, Aaron.9650 said:

I'm confused, the changes in balance are one of the points that demonstrate the change in quality for the better in recent years, don't you like that now they give importance to the current state of the classes?

Butchering class gameplay loops and devolving it into spam these buttons for boons instead of their intended function is not what i would say is for the better.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Bookah pls.9352
forgot trinkets and weapons

[Graymatter.4723]

34 minutes ago, psizone.8437 said:

I personally don't have an issue with the price.

I was only really commenting because it sounds like he thinks that just because you could get thousands of hours of content out of it, that someone shouldn't voice their wariness about buying it due to some of the changes that could be detrimental to their enjoyment of the game.

I am really torn. I like the concept but don't like the time delay. I also don't think it's fair to lock stuff that was removed behind an expansion. I say that as someone who has already bought the expansion. But it's not easy because the relics do add more functionality over and above what was removed and A/Net could have already done a lot of work on achievements, etc. to create a legendary relic in the new expansion. I would prefer it if they added a legendary underwater helm to SOTO and let people with the core game create a legendary relic. They can then lock the expansion bonuses behind the expansion just like they do with stat combinations.

[Acheron.1580]

49 minutes ago, Vortus.2801 said:

You compare Gyala Map with an expansion with:

- Biggest reward improvements in 11 years of GW2
- Fractal + Cm
- Strike + Cm
- New weapons for all classes
- Weapon master
- New Legendary armor set
- 3 maps
- The lore what we are waiting to know something about since 18 years ago
- New masteries for Skyscale
- New freature: Relics

Yes, you've definitely just proven that you complain just for the sake of complaining. This concludes our interaction. Goodbye and take care.

I'm simply pointing out that Gyala Delves was a massive disappointment. In fact all of EoD was. I don't equate ANY of what that expansion gave me personally was even one hundred hours. And seriously, new weapon, and masteries on that list? Like that'll keep your attention before being old hat in less than a week. I picture a kid with a rattle, which wasn't helped by your last sentence. If all 3 maps are Gyala Delve quality, then absolutely not worth thousands of hours. Honestly after EoD I just went back to HoT and PoF.

[Xilicks.9547]

8 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Still, the person who bought a full set of legendary runes (over $70) did so knowing that they included sixth tier bonuses. When you buy a package that lists something as included in the package, then you have paid for that something.

ANet is choosing to take that something, the sixth tier bonus, away. It is within their right to do so. I am not arguing otherwise. But, if they want to placate those whom they are planning to deprive of the value of their purchase then the onus is on them. They created the problem. They created the complexity or specifics that make it difficult for them to restore what the player paid for. If it is too hard for them to address the matter in a satisfactory manner for those paying customers who are negatively impacted...they should have considered that before designing the system, ajd should be prepared for the backlash.

 

 

Nobody paid $70 for runes, they paid $70 for gold and chose to spend that gold on runes. Anything you buy with gold is subject to have things changed as its a live game with balance updates and system changes. You're arguing that what they bought was changed but if somebody spent irl money on gems and converted it to gold, the thing you bought were the gems/gold which didn't change. Bad argument. 

[Shade.8971]

Anet: "Look. Shiny new things for the expansion."

wheel of forturne hand wave over pile with new relic effects

Players: "What about those?"

points toward giant pile of relic effects in game already

Anet: "Don't mind those!"

rushes over to the bigger pile, trying to block view of players

Players: "But they're in the game now. Why don't you let us just keep them?"

Anet: "Those are relics now. So they're new. I haven't had the chance to move them."

Activision pops head in door way

Activision: "Hey, how's that advice we gave you working ou..."

Anet: "Get the hell outta here!"