Relics Bring New Equipment to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[Essence Snow.3194]

3 minutes ago, Puffer Fish.1796 said:

Correct, I don't have the leg runes. I never said I have the leg runes--another person who quoted me said they have the leg runes.

I understand your point. I just don't know what everyone expects them to do with the complaints of "you will take away a feature I did grinding for and now we have to re-grind for it!"

Oops, sry bout that.

I think what we want them to do is to think about what they are doing b4 they do it. This was one of many instances where the reaction was very predictable, to the extent that it was one of the most likely outcomes. Now if you are planning to do something and you don't come up with the most likely outcomes, there are questions to be asked and most likely actions to be taken.

[Puffer Fish.1796]

Just now, Essence Snow.3194 said:

Oops, sry bout that.

I think what we want them to do is to think about what they are doing b4 they do it. This was one of many instances where the reaction was very predictable, to the extent that it was one of the most likely outcomes. Now if you are planning to do something and you don't come up with the most likely outcomes, there are questions to be asked and most likely actions to be taken.

All good!

I think maybe the goal of announcing this was twofold.

1. See how the community feels about it overall (which they could have expected would be bad)

2. See what suggestions the community has to offer for how to make them feel less bad about it.

I get the feeling anet wants to compromise with us on a lot of things, but the history of actual death threats to their team members because of forum posts and player entitlement gives good context for their hesitancy to actually engage with us publicly anymore, and just relying on the hope that we give useful feedback on announcements.

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

22 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello all and happy Friday! I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have been working with members of several development teams to round up answers to frequently asked questions that I've seen. (Huge thanks to everyone on the team who helped me with answers!) Answers are below, but I've also added them to my original post so they're easy to find and share. I'm going to get caught up on the thread this morning and while there are things we can't discuss right now, if I see more questions that can be answered I'll work with the team on those and try to provide more replies. 

As always, thank you all for continuing to discuss and provide feedback--we appreciate it! 

FAQ:

• What happens to rune slot 6?
  • Slot 6 will be another stat bonus. Some runes already have a stat bonus here, and those that don’t will have one added. 
• Can I equip 5 runes and +1 of another set?
  • You can, as you can now, but this will be giving up the 6-slot bonus of one rune set for the 1 slot bonus of another.
• Will relics that launch cover all the special effect from each 6-rune set?
  • Not all existing 6-slot rune bonuses will be available as relics at launch. We will continue adding additional core relics over time as part of our ongoing commitment to improving our core game features.
• Can you explain the note about “choice of three core relics”?
  • When we say "your choice of three relics,” we mean that you’ll get to choose a total of three relics (exact number subject to change, but that’s our current plan) from among the available core relics.
• There are runes that have the same exact stat combinations up to 5 runes and then the 6th rune is different. For example, the runes of the pack, fireworks and surging. Now the rune of the pack actually gives stats (+125 precision) for the 6th rune. But the other two only have the special ability and give no stat bonus. Or does the 25% increase in movement speed count as a stat increase?
  • In cases like this, we’ll be making sure that runes with duplicate 1-5 bonuses have unique 6 slot stats. In this example, 25% movement speed will count as a stat increase and will be seen on a handful of rune 6 pieces.
• Will you be retiring any runes (due to duplicates or otherwise)?
  • No. All of the existing rune sets will have unique stat combinations and none of them will be removed.

 

One big question seems to be what does "significant progress" mean?  Why not just give them the legendary relic for free if they already have the legendary runes?

[Flapjackson.1596]

I am content with the fact that we will be receiving compensation towards a legendary relic, but it would be best if the matters of “significant progress” and “a quarterly update” were specified soon. If we get the legendary relic released in the 1st quarterly update, so be it. If it waits to the 3rd or 4th….

Then we have a problem.

Regardless of how much value actually shifts between runes and relics, it stands to reason that for an unclear period of time players will have to manage without. Given a core appeal of legendaries is that you are future-proofing your account, I hope Anet does more to assuage people that other parts of their legendary progression, basically the backbone of the economy, are not subject to future change. That goes against the point of pursuing expensive QoL items. They are never worth the cost on value alone but their permanence and universal nature are so strong. Soul bound relics for how many months is a big shift.

[Ashen.2907]

2 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Regardless of how much value actually shifts between runes and relics, it stands to reason that for an unclear period of time players will have to manage without. Given a core appeal of legendaries is that you are future-proofing your account, I hope Anet does more to assuage people that other parts of their legendary progression, basically the backbone of the economy, are not subject to future change. That goes against the point of pursuing expensive QoL items. They are never worth the cost on value alone but their permanence and universal nature are so strong. Soul bound relics for how many months is a big shift.

This is my main concern.

I had accumulated the resources to continue my legendary journey and have ceased all efforts in light of the relic issue. The value of every piece of legendary gear I have accumulated is lessened for me and every piece of legendary gear I was preparing to craft has had its appeal reduced to the point that my bank and wallet are closed until the matter is settled.

[Gibson.4036]

29 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 

• Can you explain the note about “choice of three core relics”?
  • When we say "your choice of three relics,” we mean that you’ll get to choose a total of three relics (exact number subject to change, but that’s our current plan) from among the available core relics.

Thanks, @Rubi Bayer.8493. That seems like it will go a good distance to help players who don't have legendary runes feel like they haven't lost functionality on all their characters.

[suialthor.7164]

ArenaNet is losing trust over easily avoidable decisions like this.  

I am not talking about just the runes.  The constant failures with planning and communications.  They make a post saying "trust us" we will release information in a couple of weeks.  Then they say it needs a couple of more days.  Once released we learn that nothing of value is provided and they say "trust us" we will improve the situation in the future.  But there is no guarantee.  For all we know it could be "delayed" into a future expansion.  

ArenaNet is asking us to trust them.  While also taking away something that was suppose to be the end of the grind and asking us to earn it back.  We trusted them when sinking all that time and effort into the Legendary runes.  Lets be honest, the relic is not a new item like the jade bot cores.  It is separating what we already have and using it as content filler.

This level of disrespect for players time and efforts is what I expect from EA or Activision.  I'm just waiting for Anet to respond with:

The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes relics.

Edited July 21, 2023 by suialthor.7164

[Randulf.7614]

3 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello all and happy Friday! I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have been working with members of several development teams to round up answers to frequently asked questions that I've seen. (Huge thanks to everyone on the team who helped me with answers!) Answers are below, but I've also added them to my original post so they're easy to find and share. I'm going to get caught up on the thread this morning and while there are things we can't discuss right now, if I see more questions that can be answered I'll work with the team on those and try to provide more replies. 

As always, thank you all for continuing to discuss and provide feedback--we appreciate it! 

FAQ:

• What happens to rune slot 6?
  • Slot 6 will be another stat bonus. Some runes already have a stat bonus here, and those that don’t will have one added. 
• Can I equip 5 runes and +1 of another set?
  • You can, as you can now, but this will be giving up the 6-slot bonus of one rune set for the 1 slot bonus of another.
• Will relics that launch cover all the special effect from each 6-rune set?
  • Not all existing 6-slot rune bonuses will be available as relics at launch. We will continue adding additional core relics over time as part of our ongoing commitment to improving our core game features.
• Can you explain the note about “choice of three core relics”?
  • When we say "your choice of three relics,” we mean that you’ll get to choose a total of three relics (exact number subject to change, but that’s our current plan) from among the available core relics.
• There are runes that have the same exact stat combinations up to 5 runes and then the 6th rune is different. For example, the runes of the pack, fireworks and surging. Now the rune of the pack actually gives stats (+125 precision) for the 6th rune. But the other two only have the special ability and give no stat bonus. Or does the 25% increase in movement speed count as a stat increase?
  • In cases like this, we’ll be making sure that runes with duplicate 1-5 bonuses have unique 6 slot stats. In this example, 25% movement speed will count as a stat increase and will be seen on a handful of rune 6 pieces.
• Will you be retiring any runes (due to duplicates or otherwise)?
  • No. All of the existing rune sets will have unique stat combinations and none of them will be removed.

Removing my feedback. I’m pretty certain I misread

Edited July 21, 2023 by Randulf.7614
I’m an idiot

[Ashen.2907]

51 minutes ago, Puffer Fish.1796 said:

That's....that's just how business works.

No it isnt. That is how ANet is choosing to work.

In no other industry is a company in a position to remove functionality from a product after it has been paid for and delivered only to then offer the customer the option to repurchase said functionality. In other industries, without an EULA (something which is not universally enforceable) this would be illegal.

And again, I am not claiming that ANet does not have the legal right to do this, on the contrary, but if you charge for something and then take it away after pocketing your customer's payment, then you are choosing to court backlash and deserve any negative word of mouth, financial fallout, and hit to your reputation that you get.

Imagine going to a weird restaurant where you pay when the food is delivered. While you are eating your steak the waiter comes and takes all of the side dishes away and tells you that you can rebuy them as they are now being remade into a casserole and casseroles are not included in the price of your meal. The meal, when you decided to purchase it listed those potatoes, brussel sprouts, and so on as part of the meal.....should you be left with less than what you originally agreed to pay for because the restaurant has decided to change their menu? Would you continue to visit that business? Would you feel confident buying f4om a menu knowing that what would be delivered might not be what was purchased? Sure the restaurant has a sign somewhere with tons of small print so it is all completely legal....but do you choose to eat there any longer?

[Puffer Fish.1796]

2 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

No it isnt. That is how ANet is choosing to work.

In no other industry is a company in a position to remove functionality from a product after it has been paid for and delivered only to then offer the customer the option to repurchase said functionality. In other industries, without an EULA (something which is not universally enforceable) this would be illegal.

And again, I am not claiming that ANet does not have the legal right to do this, on the contrary, but if you charge for something and then take it away after pocketing your customer's payment, then you are choosing to court backlash and deserve any negative word of mouth, financial fallout, and hit to your reputation that you get.

Imagine going to a weird restaurant where you pay when the food is delivered. While you are eating your steak the waiter comes and takes all of the side dishes away and tells you that you can rebuy them as they are now being remade into a casserole and casseroles are not included in the price of your meal. The meal, when you decided to purchase it listed those potatoes, brussel sprouts, and so on as part of the meal.....should you be left with less than what you originally agreed to pay for because the restaurant has decided to change their menu? Would you continue to visit that business? Would you feel confident buying f4om a menu knowing that what would be delivered might not be what was purchased? Sure the restaurant has a sign somewhere with tons of small print so it is all completely legal....but do you choose to eat there any longer?

Again, you're acting like you paid real money for leg runes. Is that really a thing people did? I saw somewhere else that the cost equivalence is about $70USD...I can't believe someone would buy leg runes with real money conversion.

[suialthor.7164]

1 minute ago, Puffer Fish.1796 said:

Again, you're acting like you paid real money for leg runes. Is that really a thing people did? I saw somewhere else that the cost equivalence is about $70USD...I can't believe someone would buy leg runes with real money conversion.

They offer gem to gold conversion (and the other way) for a reason.  So it makes sense that some players are spending money for in game items (not sure what items).

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, Puffer Fish.1796 said:

Again, you're acting like you paid real money for leg runes. Is that really a thing people did? I saw somewhere else that the cost equivalence is about $70USD...I can't believe someone would buy leg runes with real money conversion.

I am sure that some people do spend real money to be able to get legendary gear. Ive seen posts saying so. Ive not done so but my time, considering how much is required to get any legendary gear, is worth far more than $70. I am willing to spend that currency, and time is a currency, to gain something that provides a benefit that I consider worth the price. Legendaries, none of them in light of this precedent, are no longer worth the price.

[idpersona.3810]

8 minutes ago, Puffer Fish.1796 said:

Again, you're acting like you paid real money for leg runes. Is that really a thing people did? I saw somewhere else that the cost equivalence is about $70USD...I can't believe someone would buy leg runes with real money conversion.

Current prices have the runes at 387g each. so 2324g for 6 of them. Current (right this minute) conversion has that at $83.38US. $97.19 for 7 runes.

Some people absolutely just pay real money for the non account bound mats. Others (most?) pay in time spent playing. Cost is cost though. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by idpersona.3810

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

16 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

The blog post has be sneakily changed, it doesn't say 7 anymore. Tells you how much they guy who writes the blogpost knows about the game, when I started crafting the legendary runes, everyone's advise was "there is no need for the 7th"

 

 

I want to quickly clarify that the blog post was not edited at all after publication, and still says seven: "In fact, each of the seven legendary runes you create will unlock further progress toward these relics. "

[Gehenna.3625]

9 minutes ago, Puffer Fish.1796 said:

Again, you're acting like you paid real money for leg runes. Is that really a thing people did? I saw somewhere else that the cost equivalence is about $70USD...I can't believe someone would buy leg runes with real money conversion.

I just get sick and tired of collecting trophies for the gifts of condensed might and magic. That's always the last thing I still need and it just is too much of a grind for me to be fun. So yeah, I do pay money for buying that annoying grind off. However, just because I used real money for a part of it, doesn't mean I have any sense of entitlement to go with that. I know that I don't own anything in the game. It's on lease for as long as the game runs. If I decide to spend real money on some of that, then I fully understand what I'm spending money on. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Gehenna.3625

[idpersona.3810]

9 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

I want to quickly clarify that the blog post was not edited at all after publication, and still says seven: "In fact, each of the seven legendary runes you create will unlock further progress toward these relics. "

Any chance of getting insight on whether or not the 7th rune is needed, or how much it will help? After this change, that 7th rune is going to be even less value added than before, since the whole point (if one cared about underwater combat) was keeping that 6th special bonus?

Edit: To clarify (since there's multiple confused faces now), the only reason I cans see the craft the 7th rune now depends entirely on what "significant progress toward unlocking legendary relics" ends up meaning. On it's own, that 7th rune is going to be worth a few silver at best.

Edited July 21, 2023 by idpersona.3810

[Astralporing.1957]

24 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 

I want to quickly clarify that the blog post was not edited at all after publication, and still says seven: "In fact, each of the seven legendary runes you create will unlock further progress toward these relics. "

But would you also clarify why seven, when underwater content is something Anet has abandoned years ago? At this point seventh legendary rune is completely useless, and the only reason to even craft it would be if it offers more than 350-380 (whatever the current rune cost is) gold of progress towards the relic. And i hope Legendary relic will not cost significantly more than runes do.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Dotveg.5108]

So, if I get this right, people aren't upset about the Relics themselves, they're upset because it is unclear if their previous time investment will be properly compensated, and therefore, because of this uncertainty, are reacting vehemently against their addition.

 

Personally, I think a good way to put people at ease would be to give more precise an ETA for the legendary Relic, as well as more information as to what exactly "significant progress" means. It would also be nice to clear up just how useful the seventh legendary rune is going to be in this context: is it going to allow for the full Relic to be available, no crafting involved? Is it going to act as a cherry on top of an already fully unlocked Relic thanks to the previous six crafts (cosmetic Relic perhaps)?

 

There is no winning against uncertainty with vague answers, as they will cause only more unrest. For now, the only thing people are sure of is that change is happening, and it is affecting what they are used to in a way that feels like they are not getting the bang for their buck. There is much confusion around this announcement, which I am starting to see now, and even if it does not concern me much, I think we would all gain from understanding what we are about to get into just a little more, to ease the skepticism and bad press this is generating.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Dotveg.5108
Formating

[Acheron.1580]

26 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Current prices have the runes at 387g each

23 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

the craft the 7th rune now depends entirely on what "significant progress toward unlocking legendary relics" ends up meaning. On it's own, that 7th rune is going to be worth a few silver at best.

I can promise you it won't be anywhere near the equivalent in gold wasted. The fact they are saying its "significant progress" suggests to me it will be some arbitrary non-gold related garbage like collection achievements completed for you, the best I can come up with is it would be like they finished some of your achievements for your vision collection. They are being as vague as possible because quite frankly they haven't got an idea. The blog post basically says nothing and was meant to placate but did it really badly.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

They are being as vague as possible because quite frankly they haven't got an idea.

I'm afraid they are being vague because they do have an idea. And they know we'll not going to like it. That it's just a delaying tactics meant to tire us out - and at the very least buy them a year of time before it blows up again.

[Acheron.1580]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

I'm afraid they are being vague because they do have an idea. And they know we'll not going to like it. That it's just a delaying tactics meant to tire us out - and at the very least buy them a year of time before it blows up again.

I know that relics are looking right now like the only content to chase on the release of this "expansion" but quite honestly the simplest solution that just ends all of this is give anyone with 6 runes the legendary relic. If there is so little content that the only dragon to chase for a year is these relics the expansion shouldn't even be released in a month.

This whole expansion is perfectly captured in that awful magic juggling emote. There's a lot of hand waving, and noise, and all the resources are just reused and my honest reaction to seeing it is "Is that seriously it?"

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

1 hour ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hello all and happy Friday! I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have been working with members of several development teams to round up answers to frequently asked questions that I've seen. (Huge thanks to everyone on the team who helped me with answers!) Answers are below, but I've also added them to my original post so they're easy to find and share. I'm going to get caught up on the thread this morning and while there are things we can't discuss right now, if I see more questions that can be answered I'll work with the team on those and try to provide more replies. 

As always, thank you all for continuing to discuss and provide feedback--we appreciate it! 

FAQ:

• What happens to rune slot 6?
  • Slot 6 will be another stat bonus. Some runes already have a stat bonus here, and those that don’t will have one added. 
• Can I equip 5 runes and +1 of another set?
  • You can, as you can now, but this will be giving up the 6-slot bonus of one rune set for the 1 slot bonus of another.
• Will relics that launch cover all the special effect from each 6-rune set?
  • Not all existing 6-slot rune bonuses will be available as relics at launch. We will continue adding additional core relics over time as part of our ongoing commitment to improving our core game features.
• Can you explain the note about “choice of three core relics”?
  • When we say "your choice of three relics,” we mean that you’ll get to choose a total of three relics (exact number subject to change, but that’s our current plan) from among the available core relics.
• There are runes that have the same exact stat combinations up to 5 runes and then the 6th rune is different. For example, the runes of the pack, fireworks and surging. Now the rune of the pack actually gives stats (+125 precision) for the 6th rune. But the other two only have the special ability and give no stat bonus. Or does the 25% increase in movement speed count as a stat increase?
  • In cases like this, we’ll be making sure that runes with duplicate 1-5 bonuses have unique 6 slot stats. In this example, 25% movement speed will count as a stat increase and will be seen on a handful of rune 6 pieces.
• Will you be retiring any runes (due to duplicates or otherwise)?
  • No. All of the existing rune sets will have unique stat combinations and none of them will be removed.

Hi all, I'm adding one more answer to the list and hope to be back with more later today.

• What will happen for rune sets with a special ability on rune 2 and 4? 
  • Unique 2 and 4 slot bonuses will become raw stats. (Boon and condition duration increases are not considered unique and will not be removed from runes.)

[Antina.5973]

13 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all, I'm adding one more answer to the list and hope to be back with more later today.

• What will happen for rune sets with a special ability on rune 2 and 4? 
  • Unique 2 and 4 slot bonuses will become raw stats. (Boon and condition duration increases are not considered unique and will not be removed from runes.)

Hey,

thank you for clarification. However do you mean specific boon/condi duration. like burning duration on Flame Legion runes, or only the general effects saying explicitly "+x% Boon Duration" or "+y% Condition Duration"?

Or in other words, do I understand correctly that both effects: "+10% Burning Duration" and "+10% Condition Duration" and all variations of those are to stay on  runes? 🙂

xoxo
Antina

Edited July 21, 2023 by Antina.5973
extra clarification, cause language hard :(

[Rose Solane.1027]

1 minute ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Thank you. Was about to type this out.

We're getting actual responses from anet on the current topic and that's pretty great actually. It has been nice to stay on topic.

I agree that derailing the thread isn't good. A shame the actual responses and the original blog are very vague. So what is actually pretty great?

[psizone.8437]

10 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all, I'm adding one more answer to the list and hope to be back with more later today.

Any chance of us getting class (or elite spec) specific relics to change things up?

Like a relic that lets you use two ranger pets at once or one that gives warrior burst skills different flavours.