Relics Bring New Equipment to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[Acheron.1580]

4 minutes ago, Rose Solane.1027 said:

I agree that derailing the thread isn't good. A shame the actual responses and the original blog are very vague. So what is actually pretty great?

My bad aside I have to agree with this. A lot of that blog post we already knew. At most we learned they are doing a legendary relic. And that it's implementation won't even be this year. We already knew they were thinking about compensating legendary runes, but we still have no idea how based on this blog post. It effectively has no new information that their teaser for the expansion didn't already mention in one way or another.

Honestly the dev posts in here (for all the heckling and honestly why I'm so annoyed they can't be this open with the community elsewhere) has been more informative than the blogpost has.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Puffer Fish.1796]

Rubi, I suppose I have one final question.

What is going to happen to the craft price of legendary runes, now that their original function will be split between runes and relics?

Edited July 21, 2023 by Puffer Fish.1796
I accidentally a word

[idpersona.3810]

  

12 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all, I'm adding one more answer to the list and hope to be back with more later today.

• What will happen for rune sets with a special ability on rune 2 and 4? 
  • Unique 2 and 4 slot bonuses will become raw stats. (Boon and condition duration increases are not considered unique and will not be removed from runes.)

 

1 hour ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• There are runes that have the same exact stat combinations up to 5 runes and then the 6th rune is different. For example, the runes of the pack, fireworks and surging. Now the rune of the pack actually gives stats (+125 precision) for the 6th rune. But the other two only have the special ability and give no stat bonus. Or does the 25% increase in movement speed count as a stat increase?
  • In cases like this, we’ll be making sure that runes with duplicate 1-5 bonuses have unique 6 slot stats. In this example, 25% movement speed will count as a stat increase and will be seen on a handful of rune 6 pieces.

So now I'm more curious what all the current runes will look like when SotO releases. I want to see what abilities aren't considered "unique".  Second quote says the 25% movement speed is being treated as a stat increase. Boon and Condi duration increases are likewise not being considered unique for these purposes (does this apply to both specific boon buffs [20%] as well as general ones [10%]?).

[idpersona.3810]

13 minutes ago, Rose Solane.1027 said:

I agree that derailing the thread isn't good. A shame the actual responses and the original blog are very vague. So what is actually pretty great?

Rubi specifically answered several questions people on here brought up. Within a day. Compare that to communication we're gotten from anet in general. How is that not pretty great?

[Flapjackson.1596]

24 minutes ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all, I'm adding one more answer to the list and hope to be back with more later today.

• What will happen for rune sets with a special ability on rune 2 and 4? 
  • Unique 2 and 4 slot bonuses will become raw stats. (Boon and condition duration increases are not considered unique and will not be removed from runes.)

You said runes won’t be removed, but will we see adjustments that emphasize more unique boosts like boon and condition duration? 

The loss of the set effect for runes introduces a redundancy between gear stats, rune stats, and infusion stats. That’s a lot of gearing being just raw stats. While I support changing runes to a more functional and flexible system, the new runes don’t sound very compelling. The flavor that stood them apart is becoming relics now. I’d also support addressing infusions which have been sorely needing look-overs on AR and cosmetic infusions.

[Acheron.1580]

2 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Rubi specifically answered several questions people on here brought up. Within a day. Compare that to communication we're gotten from anet in general. How is that not pretty great?

While I phrased it incredibly stupidly, this is pretty much exactly what I agree with. I really honestly wish they had been this involved in the discussions during the balance patches.

[Acheron.1580]

1 minute ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

The loss of the set effect for runes introduces a redundancy between gear stats, rune stats, and infusion stats. That’s a lot of gearing being just raw stats. While I support changing runes to a more functional and flexible system, the new runes don’t sound very compelling. The flavor that stood them apart is becoming relics now. I’d also support addressing infusions which have been sorely needing look-overs on AR and cosmetic infusions.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/c8/Superspeed.png/20px-Superspeed.png Superspeed you grant lasts 33% longer. Using an elite skill grants you superspeed for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 10s) (6 piece zerphyrite)

Relic of the Thief: “Upon striking an enemy with a weapon skill that has a cooldown or resource cost, gain 1% strike damage for 6 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks, and refresh duration of all stacks to 6 seconds.” (example they gave in the expansion website)

The original zephyrite 6 piece was super boring, the original thief  one would be really broken with the change to flanking. I actually look forward to seeing what relics they are going to add, I just wish they had flushed out how they were going to implement it before they went forward with it.

[idpersona.3810]

  

2 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

While I phrased it incredibly stupidly, this is pretty much exactly what I agree with. I really honestly wish they had been this involved in the discussions during the balance patches.

Fair enough. No idea who is in charge of what. But I'm happy for the interactions/communication we're having now.

While not 100% where I would want the relic/rune process to be time-wise, the communications from Anet (Rubi specifically) cemented my decision to go ahead and pre-order, as well as to craft the legendary runes, which I had been putting off for a couple of weeks now. 

[Flapjackson.1596]

3 minutes ago, Acheron.1580 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/c8/Superspeed.png/20px-Superspeed.png Superspeed you grant lasts 33% longer. Using an elite skill grants you superspeed for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 10s) (6 piece zerphyrite)

Relic of the Thief: “Upon striking an enemy with a weapon skill that has a cooldown or resource cost, gain 1% strike damage for 6 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks, and refresh duration of all stacks to 6 seconds.” (example they gave in the expansion website)

The original zephyrite 6 piece was super boring, the original thief  one would be really broken with the change to flanking. I actually look forward to seeing what relics they are going to add, I just wish they had flushed out how they were going to implement it before they went forward with it.

I do too, I think there is a lot of potential for wacky and fun ideas. I’m talking about the fact that removing those effects makes the runes themselves just raw stat boosts. Added to armor that is just stat boosts. Which you augment with infusions which are just more stat boosts. Surely this can get paired down a little? Or go all in on niche stat buffs like alac or superspeed duration. 

[StarPT.7431]

22 hours ago, Bobe.3759 said:

As many said, i also think the relic system should fully compensate those who had a full set of legendary runes. I share the sentiment and the disappointment in having to re-craft/work on a feature and part of the game i had cleared previously. Many have voiced their opinions already, which i share, so i won't be going further into that

That said, I would like to bring the discussion to easy ideas Anet could implement in the meantime. Here are some :

1. Give players with legendary runes so much of those (or an unlimited) relic-choice boxes so that we feel like we still have the effects of legendary runes 
2. Postpone the relic system until the legendary relic is implemented
3. Leave legendary runes in game with their 6th bonus as is or have an hybrid system while we wait for legendary relic

 

I would like to hear your ideas and realistic solutions, the less development required from Anet's side is probably the easier for them so i tried to keep it simple

Some of you guys had similar ideas, sorry for not crediting you

I don't hate your suggestions, but from that post of theirs it's clear they want everyone to deal with that pain of system both without free handouts (the free relic you get per character will only be a choice between 3 core relics, probably trash relics even) and without a legendary to go the easy way...it's clear they want to force everyone to engage.

[Graymatter.4723]

2 hours ago, Puffer Fish.1796 said:

Correct, I don't have the leg runes. I never said I have the leg runes--another person who quoted me said they have the leg runes.

I understand your point. I just don't know what everyone expects them to do with the complaints of "you will take away a feature I did grinding for and now we have to re-grind for it!"

I am perhaps different from a lot of people here. I don't mind additional grind for a new legendary. I did Vision, Aurora, Prismatic, and a sPVP set all at the same time just to get them out of the way so I never had to worry about that sort of stuff again. There are two problems, though:

1. The delay before legendary relics will be introduced. This can be anything from 6 months to 15 months based on the quarterly releases. That means that I have to grind the regular relics until that time. That means doing content that I don't necessarily like to get a relic that I want to use. So, I went from being able to create any build in the game at the launch of an expansion (provided I paid for it) to having to grind for the same flexibility. If the legendary relic or a vendor that provided these items for free to people with full sets of legendary runes was available at launch then I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
2. I agree with the "progress" part for the runes but using a subjective word like "substantial" doesn't provide much information.
3. There is a potential for the legendary relic to be locked behind the new expansion. We had that with the legendary Amulet, as an example. So, people who choose not to buy the expansion would be worse off in that case. We don't know if that will be the case but that would be similar to A/Net upgrading something else in the game like maps but only making them available to players who buy the expansion. This point could be complete hogwash if the legendary relic is available to everyone.

I really appreciate @Rubi Bayer.8493 for keeping an eye on the conversation and helping to provide additional information. I think a large part of the concern stems from the uncertainty. If I knew that legendary relics would be out in March next year then I will play a certain way and only get some of the relics. If I know that it is 15 months away then that's a completely different story and I will get all of them.

[idpersona.3810]

11 minutes ago, StarPT.7431 said:

I don't hate your suggestions, but from that post of theirs it's clear they want everyone to deal with that pain of system both without free handouts (the free relic you get per character will only be a choice between 3 core relics, probably trash relics even) and without a legendary to go the easy way...it's clear they want to force everyone to engage.

  

2 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

FAQ:

• Can you explain the note about “choice of three core relics”?
  • When we say "your choice of three relics,” we mean that you’ll get to choose a total of three relics (exact number subject to change, but that’s our current plan) from among the available core relics

This was clarified earlier today.

[Wolfyno.2704]

16 minutes ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

 

1. There is a potential for the legendary relic to be locked behind the new expansion. We had that with the legendary Amulet, as an example. So, people who choose not to buy the expansion would be worse off in that case. We don't know if that will be the case but that would be similar to A/Net upgrading something else in the game like maps but only making them available to players who buy the expansion. This point could be complete hogwash if the legendary relic is available to everyone.

I really appreciate @Rubi Bayer.8493 for keeping an eye on the conversation and helping to provide additional information. I think a large part of the concern stems from the uncertainty. If I knew that legendary relics would be out in March next year then I will play a certain way and only get some of the relics. If I know that it is 15 months away then that's a completely different story and I will get all of them.

Both points are worth mentioning and would need a clearer answer! 

[Sesh.8294]

ARENA NET!!! Do you think we can get relics that have active effects NOT tied to elite skills? For example Necro gets the condi remove from the rune of water as an active button next to the class mechanics? You guys have already given us another active skill slot for certain quests, why not use this slot for active relics that dont have their activation tied to elite skills, or can we get weapon sigils that have trait lines from other specs for our classes? For example, you can use the warrior skill shield master trait on a shield sigil slot. I get not being able to add the grand master traits, however I feel like this would add so much build craft to all the professions if we could pull some of the lower traits from other specs and use them as weapon sigils. 

[Ashen.2907]

Thank you for the updates Rubi. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

[Bookah pls.9352]

3 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 

• There are runes that have the same exact stat combinations up to 5 runes and then the 6th rune is different. For example, the runes of the pack, fireworks and surging. Now the rune of the pack actually gives stats (+125 precision) for the 6th rune. But the other two only have the special ability and give no stat bonus. Or does the 25% increase in movement speed count as a stat increase?
  • In cases like this, we’ll be making sure that runes with duplicate 1-5 bonuses have unique 6 slot stats. In this example, 25% movement speed will count as a stat increase and will be seen on a handful of rune 6 pieces.

The thing about this though is that by your definition on the second bullet point part as the answer, Aren't Rune of Fireworks and Rune of Surging actually both  identical 1-6 stats not 1-5 stats since you say 25% movement speed counts as a stat increase? so one of them still needs changed here. Like despite the slight difference in tooltip wording, the movespeed from fireworks is permanent is it not? It's not bundled into the bonus parts proc rate and i don't remember it being part of it. If i'm wrong i'm wrong but i could have sworn its passive increase.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Bookah pls.9352

[Randulf.7614]

Since I’ve now realised I misread the clarification from Rubi, I’ve altered some of my posts to reflect I’m an idiot unable to read clearly

(Its 3 from a pool, not one of three like it was originally worded. That’s a significant clarification that whilst doesn’t remove all issues, removes a big one)

Edited July 21, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[MuscleBobBuffPants.1406]

35 minutes ago, StarPT.7431 said:

I don't hate your suggestions, but from that post of theirs it's clear they want everyone to deal with that pain of system both without free handouts (the free relic you get per character will only be a choice between 3 core relics, probably trash relics even) and without a legendary to go the easy way...it's clear they want to force everyone to engage.

I think this is correct in the sense that I expect this kind of response to the elephant in the room question but it stems from a mistake made by the company.  It went against it's own game design and philosophy by invalidating the work and effort of others.  The community overwhelmingly has pointed out this discrepancy between the game design/philosophy and the lack of appropriate compensation, a legendary relic.  If there was a simple mea culpa and providing those who earned it a legendary relic, I imagine there would be much much less backlash.  The customer shouldn't be hurt or hindered by the mistake of a company.  Trust takes time to build but it is easy to destroy it quickly.  There seems to be a fundamental issue at the company regarding it's own game design/philosophy ranging from balance design to system design.  

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Are relics slotted items like power cores or unlocks each character can progress?

[Skyroar.2974]

2 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi all, I'm adding one more answer to the list and hope to be back with more later today.

• What will happen for rune sets with a special ability on rune 2 and 4? 
  • Unique 2 and 4 slot bonuses will become raw stats. (Boon and condition duration increases are not considered unique and will not be removed from runes.)

What about effects like stun/fear duration increase?

[Acheron.1580]

Posted 8 hours ago (edited)

Stolen idea from another thread but:

in short: make 2 leg. relicts:

• a leg. core-relic now, it allows choosing the 40 current effects, you get it for 6 leg runes
• a leg full-relic in a year, it allows chosing current and future effects, the core-Relic is a precursor for it

I know people are like "But we don't want 2 legendary relics, it complicates things," but honestly this is such a simple and elegant solution. If at any point you craft or have crafted your 6 (please not 7, that's so dumb) legendary runes you get the precursor. If you don't intent to ever do that but want the legendary relic later, then just have a separate mystic forge / whatever pattern to get it. You could have achievements in the expansion that gets you a gift of filler that either is used to make just the legendary relic with a bunch of usual legendary recipe junk, or used in a second recipe with the precursor to upgrade it with reduced costs.

It doesn't upset the need to do the expansion stuff, it doesn't mean you get your expansion relics before they should be given to you, it still makes the content relevant and rewards players who either don't want the expansion or do. It ticks so many boxes:

- Legendary runes aren't going to be worth the investment going forward (I mean they are arguably overpriced now but that's aside), and rather than reduce the costs of them, they work towards this precursor  which ideally reduces the cost of the legendary relic so materials don't feel so wasted. You wouldn't need to adjust or reassess legendary rune crafting (arguably).

- The reward is instant, and the promise of further reward going forward remains.

- the "substantial advancement towards the legendary relic" is both observable, quantifiable and adjustable.

- the transition between old and new system is seamless for those with legendary runes, and alleviates uncertainty about whether players should be crafting or not crafting relics because the time frame becomes irrelevant.

- it doesn't invalidate the expansion in any way, and doesn't punish people holding off on the expansion.

- It doesn't become a one-time limited reimbursement and so doesn't require players to consider if / when they should craft legendary runes and before when because it would simply continue forward. It wouldn't require considering cut-off dates etc. from Anet.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Acheron.1580
cleaned up formating

[Jerus.4350]

On 7/20/2023 at 8:47 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 

 

• Will you be retiring any runes (due to duplicates or otherwise)?
  • No. All of the existing rune sets will have unique stat combinations and none of them will be removed.

What about Bonus effects that are shifting to Relics?  I ask because we got the preview of the Zephyrite Relic with it applying protection/resolution and the rune is a superspeed duration increase as well as application from using the elite.  So that’s a big change, and should we expect that kind of thing elsewhere?  Can we expect the superspeed bonus to come from a differently named Relic?  
 

I’m a superspeed junky 😅

[ViolentMuffin.9573]

You've mentioned that people who have 7 runes will receive a significant compensation towards the legendary relic. Can we make the cap for the max reimbursement 6 runes? I don't think anybody really cares about underwater (I assume the 7th rune is for the breather). We barely fight there, swimming is marginal gameplay now, and there's practically no substantial benefit to getting gear for underwater. We don't even have a legendary breather, so why care counting a rune for breather towards the compensation?

[Foxgod.1038]

3 minutes ago, ViolentMuffin.9573 said:

You've mentioned that people who have 7 runes will receive a significant compensation towards the legendary relic. Can we make the cap for the max reimbursement 6 runes? I don't think anybody really cares about underwater (I assume the 7th rune is for the breather). We barely fight there, swimming is marginal gameplay now, and there's practically no substantial benefit to getting gear for underwater. We don't even have a legendary breather, so why care counting a rune for breather towards the compensation?

Because there are people that have crafted them and as such paid 400G more than the ones that didn't. Very simple.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Foxgod.1038

[KrakensEmbrace.8215]

4 minutes ago, Foxgod.1038 said:

Because there are people that have crafted them and as such paid 400G more than the ones that didn't. Very simple.

Not at all. Because ANET is the one who continued to make underwater combat irrelevant and that's why most folks didn't bother with a 7th. 
Not having the 7th legendary rune didn't drastically impact their regular play, but not having the legendary relic will. 

And I'm saying this as someone who has all seven. Six runes should be all it takes to get the legendary relic.