Relics Bring New Equipment to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Vortus.2801 said:

gives you hundreds or thousands of hours of gameplay

Any proof of this?

[kdc.4589]

There appears to be a lot of focus on legendary compensation. I have full leges (7 lege runes), but this seems like only a part of the issue. If a player has four equipment templates, he will generally have four sets of runes. Whether they are legendary or not there will have been an investment in a certain build. With the relic change they will be able to choose three (actual number to be determined) relics from the basic set (which may not have any of the 6^th tier bonuses they had invested in – there is no current clarity on what the various relic sets will include). Without giving a number of relic boxes equal or greater than the number of character templates, clearly users build capability can be adversely affected at roll-out. My Ranger has the maximum eight equipment templates, which will be significantly less useful with only three relics. Druid, Soulbeast, Untamed, Core. Power, condi, support. Mix and match those for the different runes (plus 6^th tier bonuses) to maximize the desired combination. Whether a player has lege ruins or not, will they have the same capability on day one when the new system is rolled out?

On top of that, I invest in leges because I like to keep up with changes in the game (balancing, new options, niche builds). I dislike wasting game investment on throw away experimentation. The sheer number of combinations I tried on previous year’s Queen’s Gauntlet achievements, for example was excessive. But it was “free” to experiment. When relics arrive how many combinations will be available to me? Perhaps I am unusual, but I am not too fussed by the compensation conversation. What I find very irritating is the wait for a lege relic replacement. The lack of certainty on the length of the wait exacerbates the annoyance. If I could work on my lege relic on day one, the actual compensation discussion becomes moot for me.

[Bookah pls.9352]

9 minutes ago, kdc.4589 said:

There appears to be a lot of focus on legendary compensation. I have full leges (7 lege runes), but this seems like only a part of the issue. If a player has four equipment templates, he will generally have four sets of runes. Whether they are legendary or not there will have been an investment in a certain build. With the relic change they will be able to choose three (actual number to be determined) relics from the basic set (which may not have any of the 6^th tier bonuses they had invested in – there is no current clarity on what the various relic sets will include). Without giving a number of relic boxes equal or greater than the number of character templates, clearly users build capability can be adversely affected at roll-out. My Ranger has the maximum eight equipment templates, which will be significantly less useful with only three relics. Druid, Soulbeast, Untamed, Core. Power, condi, support. Mix and match those for the different runes (plus 6^th tier bonuses) to maximize the desired combination. Whether a player has lege ruins or not, will they have the same capability on day one when the new system is rolled out?

The relic is essentially an equipment slot now, much like an accessory or backpiece, so you should be able to equip it to multiple templates the same way you equip any other gear. So you shouldn't need to worry about this too much.

It's shown here https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/relics-bring-new-equipment-to-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/

If all eight of your templates currently use eight different rune types then yes it's a bit of an issue, but realistically will you really be using all eight templates before you get new ones?

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Bookah pls.9352

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:47 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• Do we need 7 or will 6 that everyone crafted be enough towards the progress? 
  • We recognize most players will have only crafted up to 6 runes, but for players that have crafted seven, the extra effort will be recognized. That said, there is no requirement to make 7 legendary runes.
     
• Why only "progress towards," rather than rewarding the relic itself? 
  • The relic will need to be unlocked separately because relics will have new abilities beyond those covered by runes previously, and the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.

Ok, but how about legendary relics available right at the expansion release instead of players having to farm up individual ones anyways before months later they can regain full legendary gear functionality?

As someone once (yesterday) said in the "We want legendary relics on relics release" thread:

On 7/20/2023 at 7:31 PM, rune.9572 said:

This or riot.

I don't make the rules.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[kdc.4589]

12 minutes ago, kdc.4589 said:

There appears to be a lot of focus on legendary compensation. I have full leges (7 lege runes), but this seems like only a part of the issue. If a player has four equipment templates, he will generally have four sets of runes. Whether they are legendary or not there will have been an investment in a certain build. With the relic change they will be able to choose three (actual number to be determined) relics from the basic set (which may not have any of the 6^th tier bonuses they had invested in – there is no current clarity on what the various relic sets will include). Without giving a number of relic boxes equal or greater than the number of character templates, clearly users build capability can be adversely affected at roll-out. My Ranger has the maximum eight equipment templates, which will be significantly less useful with only three relics. Druid, Soulbeast, Untamed, Core. Power, condi, support. Mix and match those for the different runes (plus 6^th tier bonuses) to maximize the desired combination. Whether a player has lege ruins or not, will they have the same capability on day one when the new system is rolled out?

 

7 minutes ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

This is purely speculation on my part but I'm reasonably confident it's correct.

The relic is essentially an equipment slot now, much like an accessory or backpiece, so you will be able to equip it to multiple templates the same way you equip any other gear. So you shouldn't need to worry about this.

I expect you are correct.  But my concern is more that I only have three available (at roll-out) to slot across eight templates - those eight templates use different runes right now with different 6th tier bonuses.  I have lost a choice of five 6th tier bonuses initially.

[Batalix.2873]

4 minutes ago, Bookah pls.9352 said:

This is purely speculation on my part but I'm reasonably confident it's correct.

The relic is essentially an equipment slot now, much like an accessory or backpiece, so you will be able to equip it to multiple templates the same way you equip any other gear. So you shouldn't need to worry about this.

That's assuming the relic has the same stats across builds though.

The post pointed out two separate issues created by this:

1) what most people are observing, that leggy rune owners will have to wait indefinitely for the opportunity to replace the functionality they already had with a full leggy set.

2) what this poster is adding, which is that plenty of people without leggy runes have a LOT of builds using different runetypes, and that they will be inconvenienced to an extent by only receiving three-ish relics per character. They may be able to grind immediately for an equivalent replacement earlier than the leggy owners, but they still will be obligated to make up that difference to replace what they are losing as well.

Ultimately the fairest solution to the latter group is one new relic per occupied build template. That way they can start at parity with exactly the builds they went into SotO with, and are only obligated to grind the new system for any future builds they want to try.

[Randulf.7614]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ok, but how about legendary relics available right at the expansion release instead of players having to farm up individual ones anyways before months later they can regain full legendary gear functionality?

I’m guessing they haven’t been made yet and are still in the design phase. I think they got caught out on this one hence the months to design, make, test, implement. They either delay just the feature (my pref) which is prob impossible at this late stage so close to launch, or run with it and find an additional immediate compensation. 

[luigiormario.7305]

3 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• • the legendary relic will be capable of expanding with new relic releases.
     

This point seems a stretch, since legendary runes were also capable of expanding with new releases. 

[Bookah pls.9352]

27 minutes ago, kdc.4589 said:

 

I expect you are correct.  But my concern is more that I only have three available (at roll-out) to slot across eight templates - those eight templates use different runes right now with different 6th tier bonuses.  I have lost a choice of five 6th tier bonuses initially.

Yep that bit crossed my mind after, i edited the post just before you replied.  It's a bit unfortunate and probably needs more looking into. It's entirely possible though that the new relic powers they are giving would be at least viable for your templates until you gather more, their blog post says they do intend for that to be an aim:  "our overarching goal is to offer more viable choices despite fewer overall options." So hopefully something would at least fit temporary.

It's important to note though if it eases your mind a bit is that everyone is going to be in the same situation, regardless of having legendary legendary runes or not (i know you said you have them) the runes won't be a factor since they don't affect relics and your runes won't change other than maybe actually even gaining a new 6th stat bonus if they didn't have one already (ruby said this earlier in the thread), no one should be expecting you or anyone else to have the most optimal 3 different relic powers for all content at launch, especially if you play different roles on that same character. 

@Batalix.2873

See above, relics aren't about stats though, they are about the bonus power that the 6th rune gave and the blog post on it implies anet intend for them to offer more viable choices, those may or may not overlap with some of their templates.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Bookah pls.9352

[babana.7521]

7 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

 

I want to quickly clarify that the blog post was not edited at all after publication, and still says seven: "In fact, each of the seven legendary runes you create will unlock further progress toward these relics. "

Are you saying I lied? Many people saw it. that is why the question was asked. I saw it too. there definitely was "7 legendary runes" on the blog post. Time like this I wish I have taken a screenshot.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

Are you saying I lied? Many people saw it. that is why the question was asked. I saw it too. there definitely was "7 legendary runes" on the blog post. Time like this I wish I have taken a screenshot.

...Rubi is pointing out that there still is "7 runes" on the blog post. Nothing has changed.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Mauzi.5892]

1 hour ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

ANet need to clarify that.

After the release of the legendary relic:

1. The legendary runes grant progress toward the legendary relic, making the legendary relic grant progress toward the remaining legendary runes

They should only give progress ONCE and only to those people who ALREADY own them prior to SOTO. After that they should remain two different things. Make them a little cheaper to compensate, sure, but they should not give progress to a whole different legendary.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I’m guessing they haven’t been made yet and are still in the design phase. I think they got caught out on this one hence the months to design, make, test, implement. They either delay just the feature (my pref) which is prob impossible at this late stage so close to launch, or run with it and find an additional immediate compensation. 

Probably. Then again, you know how they're releasing legendary armor at the later date, but people will be able to farm related materials right from when the expansion releases? Do the same with relics. Make them farmable as planned -and most probably already implemented- but don't change how the runes work until they're ready to do it at the same time they release the legendary relics. What will people do with those relics for all this time? The same thing they'll do with legendary-related materials/currencies: wait until it will be usable.
But what if it's already set to launch with expansion? -well, ok, then pluck it out and put it back on the table where it belongs without the legendary relics 😉

Wishful thinking, I know, but what else is left here. I'd rather delay the relics (like you said, as far as I understand) than have them introduced without the legendary option.

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Mauzi.5892 said:

They should only give progress ONCE and only to those people who ALREADY own them prior to SOTO. After that they should remain two different things. Make them a little cheaper to compensate, sure, but they should not give progress to a whole different legendary.

It's either or situation. Either they will keep giving progress even after SotO launch, or their crafting cost will get permanently reduced on SotO launch (with the whole 6-piece runeset getting reduced in price by at least 90% of the relic cost).

[babana.7521]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

...Rubi is pointing out that there still is "7 runes" on the blog post. Nothing has changed.

First they lost all trust, now they accused player of lying... that's just great for a new day,  waking up, finding that I've been accused of lying. Who else have read that they wrote 7 legendary runes please stand up.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, babana.7521 said:

First they lost all trust, now they accused player of lying... that's just great for a new day,  waking up, finding that I've been accused of lying. Who else have read that they wrote 7 legendary runes please stand up.

...do you have issues with english perhaps? because they flat out admitted they wrote 7 legendary runes. And that the very same number is still in the blog post. Nothing has changed.

I suggest you go back and read the blog again.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:57 AM, babana.7521 said:

when I started crafting the legendary runes, everyone's advise was "there is no need for the 7th"

When people advised against crafting 7th rune, it's probably not because of anything in the blog, but because LUL underwater combat. 

[Graymatter.4723]

8 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

Are you saying I lied? Many people saw it. that is why the question was asked. I saw it too. there definitely was "7 legendary runes" on the blog post. Time like this I wish I have taken a screenshot.

That's uncalled for. Rubi didn't say anything of the sort. The text just uses the word "seven" and not the number 7.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

Who else have read that they wrote 7 legendary runes please stand up.

The blog DID say 7 legendary runes right from the start and STILL says 7 legendary runes:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/relics-bring-new-equipment-to-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/

Quote

In fact, each of the seven legendary runes you create will unlock further progress toward these relics. We’ll be able to share more details when we are closer to the launch of legendary relics next year.

I don't know what your issue here is.

[Randulf.7614]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Probably. Then again, you know how they're releasing legendary armor at the later date, but people will be able to farm related materials right from when the expansion releases? Do the same with relics. Make them farmable as planned -and most probably already implemented- but don't change how the runes work until they're ready to do it at the same time they release the legendary relics. What will people do with those relics for all this time? The same thing they'll do with legendary-related materials/currencies: wait until it will be usable.
But what if it's already set to launch with expansion? -well, ok, then pluck it out and put it back on the table where it belongs without the legendary relics 😉

Wishful thinking, I know, but what else is left here. I'd rather delay the relics (like you said, as far as I understand) than have them introduced without the legendary option.

I agree. I can only assume that pulling it means changes to crafting, recipes, NPCs, collections, achievements etc already baked in. I have no doubt the expac is done, tested and ready to go at this point and removing a big feature will cause ripples that affect other parts of the expac. 
 

Perhaps better planning and earlier communication could have avoided all this, but as much I agree it should be launched as one rock solid feature (a delayed game is better than a bad game), I think we have crossed that point. If it’s doable, I think they should. Get it right first time. Always.

[Graymatter.4723]

8 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

First they lost all trust, now they accused player of lying... that's just great for a new day,  waking up, finding that I've been accused of lying. Who else have read that they wrote 7 legendary runes please stand up.

No where did Rubi accuse anyone of lying. Re-read the post of Rubi's that you quoted again.

I want to quickly clarify that the blog post was not edited at all after publication, and still says seven: "In fact, each of the seven legendary runes you create will unlock further progress toward these relics. " - Rubi's comment

Are you saying I lied? Many people saw it. that is why the question was asked. I saw it too. there definitely was "7 legendary runes" on the blog post. Time like this I wish I have taken a screenshot. - Your comment

Edited July 22, 2023 by Graymatter.4723

[psizone.8437]

55 minutes ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

I like the concept but don't like the time delay.

Quite a few of the expansions main "features" are on a time delay. New lege armour, new weapons for classes and the lege relic are all delayed until a later update.

With weaponmaster training feeling sort of shoehorned in to fill a feature list and the issues with how exactly the lege relic will work for people who made the lege runes, the expansion feels a little rushed.

[babana.7521]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The blog DID say 7 legendary runes right from the start and STILL says 7 legendary runes:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/relics-bring-new-equipment-to-guild-wars-2-secrets-of-the-obscure/

I don't know what your issue here is.

Yes , i read all of it, 
i am talking about this particular line:  i copy pasted that from the blog ,
"Players who have already crafted legendary runes will be compensated with significant progress toward unlocking legendary relics. 

it was
"Players who have already crafted 7 legendary runes will be compensated with significant progress towards unlocking legendary relics." 
 

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I agree. I can only assume that pulling it means changes to crafting, recipes, NPCs, collections, achievements etc already baked in. I have no doubt the expac is done, tested and ready to go at this point and removing a big feature will cause ripples that affect other parts of the expac.

 

Perhaps better planning and earlier communication could have avoided all this, but as much I agree it should be launched as one rock solid feature (a delayed game is better than a bad game), I think we have crossed that point. If it’s doable, I think they should. Get it right first time. Always.

But  that's what I mean by still leaving them acquirable -this way any rewards, recipes, collections and so on won't need to be changed since they can still be acquired like they were meant to. The only difference is not adding a relic slot (or locking it) and leaving the sigils how they are now. Unlock/add a slot with the release of legendary relics. Of course I can't be sure how spaghetti the spaghetti is, but I'd hope they're adding new features to the game with code they can alter easier than what they initally did.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Graymatter.4723]

3 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

Yes , i read all of it, 
i am talking about this particular line:  i copy pasted that from the blog ,
"Players who have already crafted legendary runes will be compensated with significant progress toward unlocking legendary relics. 

it was
"Players who have already crafted 7 legendary runes will be compensated with significant progress towards unlocking legendary relics." 
 

I am not sure how you got that. Even Mukluk's video from yesterday includes the text without the 7.