Relics Bring New Equipment to Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

[Sploogesque.2801]

I think it's important to consider adding all of the available core relics to the box selection that each level 60 and above character gets. Why is it that 11, nearly 12 years into the game we now have a immediate nerf to all builds when starting the expansion? I understand why we wouldn't get the SotO specific relics from the selection boxes, as they were not tied to any current runes in the game. 

EDIT: I guess this was covered in a later post that I just read today, stating we'd have a choice of the 40 core relics at launch, 3 of them per toon.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Xunlai.3460

[Acheron.1580]

3 minutes ago, Xunlai.3460 said:

I think it's important to consider adding all of the available core relics to the box selection that each level 60 character gets. Why is it that 11, nearly 12 years into the game we now have a immediate nerf to all builds when starting the expansion? I understand why we wouldn't get the SotO specific relics from the selection boxes, as they were not tied to any current runes in the game. 

Pretty sure they all are being added to the box, just none of the relics from SotO. But they are also changing and probably simply dropping rune 6 piece bonuses that might be too good after the change or were simply not useful even before the update. The example for thief rune change is 10% bonus damage against flanking is really strong with the recent changes to how flanking is treated against mobs with an unbreakable defiance bar, and tied to a really mediocre rune didn't make it desirable, but being free to choose whenever might be too strong.

And even with 100+ rune sets not all of them had a unique 6 piece, some of them just had base stats anyways so maybe the number is about right.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Sploogesque.2801]

Just now, Acheron.1580 said:

Pretty sure they all are being added to the box, just none of the relics from SotO. But they are also changing and probably simply dropping rune 6 piece bonuses that might be too good after the change or were simply not useful even before the update. The example for thief rune change is 10% bonus damage against flanking is really strong with the recent changes to how flanking is treated against mobs with an unbreakable defiance bar, and tied to a really mediocre rune didn't make it desirable, but being free to choose whenever might be too strong.

The post says one box per toon level >60, with a choice of 3 relics.

[Acheron.1580]

Just now, Xunlai.3460 said:

The post says one box per toon level >60, with a choice of 3 relics.

Yea I read it that way too, but I do believe it's actually 3 relics of your choice per toon above 60 after Rubi talked about it. Which I honestly can't see how they would code, and would make more sense it being 3 boxes with 1 relic choice each to make it clearer, but here's to hoping. If it is 3 generically terrible relics per toon then yea that's not going to fly.

[Sploogesque.2801]

Just now, Acheron.1580 said:

Yea I read it that way too, but I do believe it's actually 3 relics of your choice per toon above 60 after Rubi talked about it. Which I honestly can't see how they would code, and would make more sense it being 3 boxes with 1 relic choice each to make it clearer, but here's to hoping. If it is 3 generically terrible relics per toon then yea that's not going to fly.

I do believe that we will get the three that THEY showcased us, not that were leaked. So thief, wizard (SotO), and zephyrite from the boxes, while thief isn't a bad relic, this leaves no useful option for condition based builds.

[Omega.6801]

6 minutes ago, Xunlai.3460 said:

I think it's important to consider adding all of the available core relics to the box selection that each level 60 character gets. Why is it that 11, nearly 12 years into the game we now have a immediate nerf to all builds when starting the expansion? I understand why we wouldn't get the SotO specific relics from the selection boxes, as they were not tied to any current runes in the game. 

Yes, let's hope we get at least the choice of all the relics.
Why they did it? Many theories are in this thread. At worst it's about artificially generating a time/gold sink while ignoring base design philosophies. At best it's trying to fix a "problem" or whatever and they just forgot about past promises.

[Ashen.2907]

17 minutes ago, Xunlai.3460 said:

The post says one box per toon level >60, with a choice of 3 relics.

There was a clarification post explaining that meant 3 relics chosen from a selection of all core relics.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 8/16/2023 at 3:00 AM, Sereath.1428 said:

So are all Relics going to be the same "Use x skill to trigger y" gimmicks?

I just noticed that the Zephyrite relic you showed has absolutely nothing to do with the current Zephyrite runes which alot of players enjoy, such as engineers.
Relic = Summon crystals that apply protection and resolution to allies when using an elite skill. Cooldown: 30s
Runes 6th bonus = Superspeed you grant lasts 33% longer. Using an elite skill grants you superspeed for 5 seconds. Cooldown: 10 seconds

What happened there?!

That just makes me think that you are just going to completely delete similar runes such as Runes of Speed: Increase movement speed by 66% when under the effect of swiftness.
Or even things like Antitoxin runes: Incoming condition cleanses remove an additional condition.

My joy for playing this game would actually die if you were to homogenize that many runes to work the same way. I just wouldn't want to continue playing WvW or even Open World if things like Fireworks runes current 6th bonus boons were gone: Gain 6 stacks of might, fury and vigor for 6 seconds while in combat. Triggers every 20 seconds.
Same can be said for Pack runes.

Spamming your elite skill on cd is just bad.
"Not everything will require you to use your elite skill! Others will instead trigger with your heal.☺️"
Wow, so different.
💀

Agreed. This is a bad design. I assumed the bonuses we know would still be available, but all published examples so far tell us otherwise. 😒

[Sploogesque.2801]

43 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

There was a clarification post explaining that meant 3 relics chosen from a selection of all core relics.

🙂

Edited August 17, 2023 by Xunlai.3460

[Gorem.8104]

34 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Agreed. This is a bad design. I assumed the bonuses we know would still be available, but all published examples so far tell us otherwise. 😒

Yeah not every build pops their elite skill (or heal skill which they had mentioned) on cd, and many have very different cd's on their elites. If every relic is like this, it feels like they actually taking away the customisation we used to have. Rune of the pack for example is a rune I really like, and I like how passive it is and how it doesn't require the use of any skill to activate. the same effect only on elite use would be useless. 

[Thelgar.7214]

7 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Yeah not every build pops their elite skill (or heal skill which they had mentioned) on cd, and many have very different cd's on their elites. If every relic is like this, it feels like they actually taking away the customisation we used to have. Rune of the pack for example is a rune I really like, and I like how passive it is and how it doesn't require the use of any skill to activate. the same effect only on elite use would be useless. 

I'm kind of curious as to whether it is one person in charge that thinks tying things to when you use a skill that is on the longest cooldown and/or requires the most specific timing to use  is a fun way to do things or if there is some silver-tongued devil in the office that managed to sell it for both traits and relics. Either way, it's not a fun way to do things.

[NaramSin.2693]

Since the cost of 7 runes was outrageous I expect you to provide me ALL the material to make the legendary relics and that I only have to make the related achievements...

Edited August 18, 2023 by NaramSin.2693

[Acheron.1580]

1 hour ago, NaramSin.2693 said:

Since the cost of 7 runes was outrageous I expect you to provide me ALL the material to make the legendary relics and that I only have to make the related achievements...

Id agree with that sentiment but probably not going to happen.

22 hours ago, Xunlai.3460 said:

I do believe that we will get the three that THEY showcased us, not that were leaked. So thief, wizard (SotO), and zephyrite from the boxes, while thief isn't a bad relic, this leaves no useful option for condition based builds.

Wizard is a SotO only relic and won't be in the choice for the relic box on release, aside from the fact that I think it was also the example they used of relics unlocking after doing certain story based ... things. From my understanding after that any of your characters can buy it from a vendor without having to do it again. How stuff like this is going to impact pvp is going to be a nightmare I think (even if it's just owning SotO vs not giving more relics to choose from).

Edit: Just for clarification I know that pvp gets their gear in very different ways, and probably will here as well, but if there is a particularly strong relic (I think wizard could be very well utilized here) that people without SotO won't have access to it'll create a divide in terms of power and an argument for it being / feeling p2w.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Acheron.1580

[Gorem.8104]

21 hours ago, Thelgar.7214 said:

I'm kind of curious as to whether it is one person in charge that thinks tying things to when you use a skill that is on the longest cooldown and/or requires the most specific timing to use  is a fun way to do things or if there is some silver-tongued devil in the office that managed to sell it for both traits and relics. Either way, it's not a fun way to do things.

I agree, cause it really doesn't make much sense. What about rune of speed as an example as well, how would that translate to only on elite or heal use? Some classes have elites that have over/near 2 minute cd's that require you to use it at key moments or to save yourself from death, any of these elites would make the new relics terrible if they are all like this. 

[Astralporing.1957]

12 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I agree, cause it really doesn't make much sense. What about rune of speed as an example as well, how would that translate to only on elite or heal use? Some classes have elites that have over/near 2 minute cd's that require you to use it at key moments or to save yourself from death, any of these elites would make the new relics terrible if they are all like this. 

Let's just say that since the very beginning there was a long discussion about allowing players to use normal utility skills in elite skill slot. And the conclusion was that it can't be done, because for most classes it would be too OP. That's how bad elite skills are.

[Derktarlms.6213]

El 4/8/2023 a las 9:30, Bookah pls.9352 dijo:

La peor parte es que Ruby esquiva la pregunta que se le hizo varias veces sobre si las reliquias legendarias se están bloqueando detrás del muro de pago de la expansión, lo que significa que los poseedores de runas legendarias tienen que pagar dinero real para seguir disfrutando de un qol que tenían antes de la expansión y luego desanclar el tema con completo silencio de radio.

It is already a PAY TO WIN in all game modes such as wvw, pvp... just wait for the update since they don't give any info here.

[Shade.8971]

Haven't been following this news, or any SoO news for weeks after this annoucement. Are we still getting screwed over? Has there been any response?

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Shade.8971 said:

Haven't been following this news, or any SoO news for weeks after this annoucement. Are we still getting screwed over? Has there been any response?

Well, if you are referring to the people with legendary runes then nothing has changed. They did say that there will be a legendary relic out some time next year and people with legendary runes will get a good chunk of progression towards that for every rune they own (including the 7th). But until that happens, you'll be pretty much screwed over.

Just realise that if you have legendary runes, you are one of very few players who do compared to the rest of the player base. So it's doubtful they'll change on this. It sucks to be a niche player but there it is.

[Gorem.8104]

18 hours ago, Shade.8971 said:

Haven't been following this news, or any SoO news for weeks after this annoucement. Are we still getting screwed over? Has there been any response?

Yes and no. 
No more clarification on if they will do the relic system correctly and actually have it finished before launch, no more news on what you actually get for having the legend runes, basically just don't play for a good year and you should be good to play like you used to a year prior before they took something away that we have already earnt in game that we will most likely have to pay for to get back as there is still no word if you will need to buy the expac to unlock the legend relic. 

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

If those choices we get, fix the current runes, then I am satisfied with that. Although I will state that the legendary relic release being far away is still not acceptable, but I asume by now it is because they forgot about the runes. 

For example, on my healscourge I use Superior Rune of Mercy. The main reason is the tier 6 bonus: "Revive allies 20% faster and with 30% more health" If one of the choices we get from the select box does not (mostly) cover that, then I loose significant functionality. Getting people up fast and with more health is the value for me in this build.

The other worry I have: Will I log in after patch to discover I have to reset all legendary runes again, due to the change? I sure hope you have taken that in consideration. I have no patience to redo a rough 70 ish builds where I use legendary runes.

 

On another earlier comment: I suspect there won't be a change in the Legendary Rune recipe. This is what I speculate:

Legendary relic as stand-alone craftable item - progress rewarded for owned legendary runes in form of materials you otherwise can obtain seperately.

It is, in my reasoning, the easiest way since it removes a few problems: 1 changing recipe is hard for those that are halfway crafting runes (as in collected some, but not all components for a rune) - progress reward to Legendary Relic can be a fixed implement for those having runes already and those crafting in the future, and it even encourages people to craft the Legendary Runes later down the line. 

I do think the Legendary Relic should be an item you should be able to craft/obtain without the need of doing runes, but then a reward system should be both ways: Have a Legendary Relic, get some progress towards runes as well.

I have a lot of questions and unknowns that I worry about, but at this stage, cautiously looking forward to Tuesday. After all this time, drop it, and I will see what happens.

[Linken.6345]

10 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

If those choices we get, fix the current runes, then I am satisfied with that. Although I will state that the legendary relic release being far away is still not acceptable, but I asume by now it is because they forgot about the runes. 

For example, on my healscourge I use Superior Rune of Mercy. The main reason is the tier 6 bonus: "Revive allies 20% faster and with 30% more health" If one of the choices we get from the select box does not (mostly) cover that, then I loose significant functionality. Getting people up fast and with more health is the value for me in this build.

The other worry I have: Will I log in after patch to discover I have to reset all legendary runes again, due to the change? I sure hope you have taken that in consideration. I have no patience to redo a rough 70 ish builds where I use legendary runes.

 

On another earlier comment: I suspect there won't be a change in the Legendary Rune recipe. This is what I speculate:

Legendary relic as stand-alone craftable item - progress rewarded for owned legendary runes in form of materials you otherwise can obtain seperately.

It is, in my reasoning, the easiest way since it removes a few problems: 1 changing recipe is hard for those that are halfway crafting runes (as in collected some, but not all components for a rune) - progress reward to Legendary Relic can be a fixed implement for those having runes already and those crafting in the future, and it even encourages people to craft the Legendary Runes later down the line. 

I do think the Legendary Relic should be an item you should be able to craft/obtain without the need of doing runes, but then a reward system should be both ways: Have a Legendary Relic, get some progress towards runes as well.

I have a lot of questions and unknowns that I worry about, but at this stage, cautiously looking forward to Tuesday. After all this time, drop it, and I will see what happens.

Considering all they are doing to runes is add stat to the ones who dontt have it as a 6th bonus.

I dont see how they are fixing anything.

What they are doing is nerfing the previous 6th bonus if you look at examples relic of the zephyrite and thief.

[Astralporing.1957]

25 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

If those choices we get, fix the current runes, then I am satisfied with that.

It won't fix anything. They have already said all the already existing runes will remain as they are (with the only change being the addition of 6th tier stat bonus for those that do not already have them).

So, basically:

Runes that were taken for stats before, will still get taken for stats in the future (because they will still have those good stats).

Runes that were ignored previously due to having both bad stats and bad bonus will still get ignored (because they wil still have bad stats).

Runes that were taken on account of having good 6th tier special bonus will no longer be considered, because they will no longer have that special bonus.

Additionally, seeing as all examples of relics that corresponded to preexisting runes we got shown were either significantly nerfed or comletely changed, it's likely that some of the builds that depended on certain bonuses might end up getting worse (if their bonus gets nerfed), or just plain stop working (if the bonus will be removed and changed into something completely different).

The end result will be that most of runes will still remain useless, with only small number being useful (with maybe few changes to which runes will end up in which category). Same will likely be with relics. The one change will be that, due to more combinations we will have, runes/relic system will be even more of a noob trap than it was before.

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

The other worry I have: Will I log in after patch to discover I have to reset all legendary runes again, due to the change? I sure hope you have taken that in consideration. I have no patience to redo a rough 70 ish builds where I use legendary runes.

Take notes (or make screenshots) of your current Rune stats and expect to get to work on Tuesday! 😄

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

I don't think you understand what I ment:

We loose the 6th bonus. In my previous example "Superior rune of mercy" I specifically use that for the faster rezz with more health on allies. It is specially handy in Open World where I can tank boss damage while I rezz somebody. The speedy rezz gives me less time in harms way and the extra health on the other player means they do not need to instantly use heal skill when up. 

The core idea of relics is to move the 6th tier bonus to relics. 

So again: will the relic selection box give me a relic with a similar effect as the current 6th tier bonus? 

 

 

[Gorem.8104]

41 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

I don't think you understand what I ment:

We loose the 6th bonus. In my previous example "Superior rune of mercy" I specifically use that for the faster rezz with more health on allies. It is specially handy in Open World where I can tank boss damage while I rezz somebody. The speedy rezz gives me less time in harms way and the extra health on the other player means they do not need to instantly use heal skill when up. 

The core idea of relics is to move the 6th tier bonus to relics. 

So again: will the relic selection box give me a relic with a similar effect as the current 6th tier bonus? 

 

 

From what we have seen so far, no. None of the new relics effects are what we currently have as six set bonuses. 

Also just realised the set I use on my Ranger, Undead, has a passive bonus as well that will be removed with relics, oh great xD I'll miss you condition damage based on stacking toughness