Nabbut.7480 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) Player-driven philosophy: Destroy that thing that is pwning me Destroy that thing that is pwning me after the previous one was destroyed Repeat ad End of Guild Wars 2 Repeatedly aggravate all players smart enough to figure and use pwning things in the process. Dev-driven philosophy: Get what we made for you and shut up your kitten, worthless pleb. Edited July 31, 2023 by SpiderZ.9146 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos God.1639 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 the 3rd option would be the combination of both and that's what's also happening in most modern games that have a community, like gw2. The problem is that some communities are destroying the game themselves for whatever reasons... its like they want to riot instead of collaboration. most modern video games are created by players and devs together. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 My preference depends on whether you have competent devs. However, in general the correct answer is both driven. Dev's should have a wider scope of knowledges with user experience litterally being a metric for their success. So this is a false dilemma. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downstate.4697 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 If I was a dev I would stay away from these forums. I’d have much more relevant data getting feedback in secret discords 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthan.5236 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 It mostly needs to get fun for a lot of players. (Not for the devs only and also not only for the top 5 percent of the skill-ladder.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 hours ago, SpiderZ.9146 said: Dev-driven philosophy: Dart Board Fixed 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 best way imo is to have a small team of devs who actively play the game and all its classes in all modes. next step is to fix problems same day or at least within the week. waiting too long to fix problems or not fixing them at all has been gw2s biggest problem with balance 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks.5249 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 player base? horrible idea. you do know a lot of the posts are from people having bad builds that just scream for nerfs for a class they cant kill instead of changing their own build. Sure there are problems but if you leave it up to the player base how do you know who is complaining and who has legitimate ideas? i think it would just be way to lopsided. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atshadow.8695 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 48 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said: best way imo is to have a small team of devs who actively play the game and all its classes in all modes. next step is to fix problems same day or at least within the week. waiting too long to fix problems or not fixing them at all has been gw2s biggest problem with balance You forgot to adressthe most important point; they should also be unbiased. And besides providing a fun experience have nothing to gain from pvp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 46 minutes ago, atshadow.8695 said: You forgot to adressthe most important point; they should also be unbiased. And besides providing a fun experience have nothing to gain from pvp. being unbiased is impossible, people will always have preferences or consider some things more fun then others. thats why its important to not have only one person doing the balancing, but at the same time not too many people so there aren't too many biases to handle 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atshadow.8695 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said: being unbiased is impossible, people will always have preferences or consider some things more fun then others. thats why its important to not have only one person doing the balancing, but at the same time not too many people so there aren't too many biases to handle Balancing the balance team 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, SpiderZ.9146 said: Player-driven philosophy: Destroy that thing that is pwning me Destroy that thing that is pwning me after the previous one was destroyed Repeat ad End of Guild Wars 2 Repeatedly aggravate all players smart enough to figure and use pwning things in the process. Dev-driven philosophy: Get what we made for you and shut up your kitten, worthless pleb. It needs to be a mix of both. "Destroy that thing that is pwning me" - > Why is it pwning you? Is it pwning you for a preventable reason that most, if not all of the classes in the game can adapt to or have an answer to? If not: change it. If yes, but players refuse to attempt to counterbuild: slightly nudge the counterbuild's effectiveness. If yes, and the counterbuild is useful and sees play+people are constantly showing players how to avoid or deal with the problematic build -> Get what we made for you and shut up your kitten, worthless pleb. Quote players smart enough to figure and use pwning things This is framed improperly because most of the pwning things are pwning things because they are easy to use/pick up and have a wide range of effectiveness. Quote being unbiased is impossible, I never understood this being a justification for allowing bias to heavily impact how you balance the game. If you like a class and want it to be good, the best way to ensure the class is good for as long as possible is to ensure that: people of equal or approximate skill have fun fighting it there's weaknesses in the class that you can use to justify it being good in one or several situations the class is interactive (as in, players playing it need to actually do something skillful to win, and players fighting it need to do something skillful to beat it.) I'm biased af towards warrior but I've never seen "warrior should be kittening immortal" to be a rational step toward ensuring warrior is useful, satisfying to play, and interesting. Nobody likes characters that never lose interactions, and the most boring stories spiral out from when you focus on Mary Sues. Even if things are a little unbalanced, people can get over it if the interactions are fun, but when you swing from "This class cant die Mk1" to "this class cant die Mk2" over and over again, it gets frustrating. Edited July 31, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) The main point behind GW1 success was the dev driven balance and there was no official GW1 forum the best part. The PvP community was well and alive 8 years from launch in GW1 with guild actively seeking new players to train and join GvG mode and people on their end doing their best to get Fame Emotes....GW1 was a paradise Edited July 31, 2023 by Arheundel.6451 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 it was like, one of the WotC guys or something who said it best: players are good at identifying issues they're abysmal at actually solving that problem 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 If we let players decide on balance changes, Warrior would be deleted from the game next patch. Poor silver players can't handle its Chad aura. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semak.7481 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 At this point it circus driven 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 17 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said: it was like, one of the WotC guys or something who said it best: players are good at identifying issues they're abysmal at actually solving that problem What does it say then when players then become the devs in charge of solving the problems? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said: it was like, one of the WotC guys or something who said it best: players are good at identifying issues they're abysmal at actually solving that problem Wizards of the coast is pretty bad at solving problems too without occasional community backlash so yknow Grain of salt and all that. Sometimes the players have good ideas. Edited August 1, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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