Open world content difficulty - Open World Tiers? 10 years on

[BlindChance.3678]

I recently dipped in for 40 levels or so into the game after 10 years break. I cannot believe that with all those level scalling features already here GW2 still does not have open world tiers for players who want to adjusst general content difficulty.

Please don't tell me to do endgame content, or specific events / expansions,  to get that experience. This stuff should be available from level 1 by a click of a button, so those who want it can enjoy slightly different approach to the open world combat.

Edited August 2, 2023 by BlindChance.3678
typo/rephrasing

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

I'd be interested how - and if - Anet could impletement a GW style Hard Mode without separating people.

In the mean time, rare gear, or below, there's your challenge.

[BlindChance.3678]

Someone just told me LOTR: Online has recently introduced such a system. Open world content scales, mobs take more damage to take down and use skills. Apparently it has multiple levels of difficulty to the point you can  turn your level 1 experience into a dungeon. I'm clearly on a wrong forum 😲

[Dibit.6259]

Map zones aren't restricted to your level, even if you are underleveled for that zone. You only get capped if you are above said map level. Also core open world is dated due to power scaling from elites, balance changes, new gear stats etc.  The more challenging content does come from the expansions as it takes these aspects into account amoung other things such as new combat mechanics etc (which since in game progress is directed by story most players would do core then naturally move onto more challenging and new content as they go). There are ways to challenge yourself but you then seem very reluctant to these suggestions.

For what you want it would be down to anet to determine if its worth the time and resources which would seem unlikely to be the case 🤷‍♂️

[Tren.5120]

Most players want 0 difficulty.  That's kind of the issue.  It's why the OW content in 98.6% of MMPROGs is so easy that it mind as well not exist.  All that time invested into developing worthless content.  It's why it's hard to get anyone to invest in developing one, these days.  They have to constantly churn out endless raid tiers/expansions/DLC because the vast majority of the work is wasted de facto and players simply pick 5% to do and then ask for 5% more when they've blown through that.

I don't think difficulty is going to work unless they adjust other core facets of how the game economy runs, and how important itemization actually is.  The difficulty needs a reason to be, and it needs a reward.

Difficulty for difficulty's sake is not a selling point.  It's a huge detractor.  Risk vs. Reward exists.  People want the latter if they're going to accept the former.

Right now, GW2 is more akin to an ARPG. You really have to seek out certain activities if you want difficulty like that.  Otherwise, have fun blowing up groups of trivial MOBs.

[Randulf.7614]

I'm interested in the idea now Ive heard Lotro is doing it - and it's brand new there. Do bear in mind, if they as an older mmo are only just experimenting with it, it's hardly an overdue feature.

I'm def curious about the implementation, but I think we need to put aside this idea that it should have 100% defintely, absolutely, without question happened here already. 

But, the idea did sound intriguing. Whether it would work here, is very debatable of course

[DeanBB.4268]

Level 40, so only core Tyria. Get to 80 and move on to HoT, then come talk to us.

[BlindChance.3678]

Do we have any genuine stats about what players want in terms of difficulty? I just know I enjoy the open world content, and I find it too easy in terms of difficulty and how easy it is to over-level even with difficulty scaling. Neither I want to constantly hunt for missions few levels higher so mobs don't die in groups whilst I press one button. I would just like have an option for those who like that idea, to switch my brain slightly more whilst in the open world.

Edited August 2, 2023 by BlindChance.3678

[Randulf.7614]

5 minutes ago, BlindChance.3678 said:

Do we have any genuine stats about what players want in terms of difficulty? I just know I enjoy the open world content, and I find it too easy in terms of difficulty and how easy it is to over-level even with difficulty scaling. Neither I want to constantly hunt for missions few levels higher so mobs don't die in groups whilst I press one button. I would just like have an option for those who like that idea, to switch my brain slightly more whilst in the open world.

We do not - Anet prob do, although Heart of Thorns was nerfed due to difficulty at launch because it was too hard for many.

[Antycypator.9874]

If you want Hardmode, then gear yourself with white rarity gear and skip most of the traits.

[Dibit.6259]

9 minutes ago, BlindChance.3678 said:

Do we have any genuine stats about what players want in terms of difficulty? I just know I enjoy the open world content, and I find it too easy in terms of difficulty and how easy it is to over-level even with difficulty scaling. Neither I want to constantly hunt for missions few levels higher so mobs don't die in groups whilst I press one button. I would just like have an option for those who like that idea, to switch my brain slightly more whilst in the open world.

Reason why leveling is fast and easy at first in this game is that the game doesn't really start to progress into the harder content until you hit level 80 and advance to other expansions. If you enjoy open world aspect then you are likely to enjoy that in the expansions as well. Your progression doesn't stop with just hitting level 80, there's masteries, new maps, events, metas etc to experience from there. You're currently experiencing the old school base game which in current times is just a taster/tutorial for new players. I get you might not be interested in other aspects of endgame content but doesn't mean that the aspects you currently enjoy aren't implemented beyond core.

[Freya.9075]

Most players in gw2 wants open world to be easy. When new players get to expansion maps, they get overwhelmed because it’s such a difference when it comes to difficulty. And many times they need help from more experienced players to finish parts of it. (Like hp points and events) If you split the community, they will not get the help they need.

Open world should be content for everyone, so it should be easy specially since some players struggle with it even now.  They keep challenging content in instances for a reason. (Just look at dragon’s end meta and the amount of tears streaming down from the top of Harvest temple 👀)

[Khisanth.2948]

1 hour ago, Dibit.6259 said:

Also core open world is dated due to power scaling from elites, balance changes, new gear stats etc. 

Open world has always been like that and OP said they were only lv40. Back when I was leveling my characters which were all within the first year of the game's launch it was already like that. My gear had to be around 20 levels below my character before stuff started feeling a bit challenging.

Open world has never been meant to be particularly challenging, probably to account for all the players who are simply bad at the game. There have been plenty of threads complaining about the difficult of open world/story despite this ...

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I'm interested in the idea now Ive heard Lotro is doing it - and it's brand new there. Do bear in mind, if they as an older mmo are only just experimenting with it, it's hardly an overdue feature.

I'm def curious about the implementation, but I think we need to put aside this idea that it should have 100% defintely, absolutely, without question happened here already. 

But, the idea did sound intriguing. Whether it would work here, is very debatable of course

Well there is the trivial way which is to simply split your playerbase. For that approach ANet already has most if not all the tools necessary to implement it.

[solzuul.6294]

We can't even work to up the challenge on CM's and you want it to be upped in the open world. 

When I seek difficulty, I choose a different game. 

[vares.8457]

Every time they try to make open world a little bit more difficult or challenging the casuals get a complete meltdown and spam the forum with complaints for months. We saw it with the DE meta. That’s very unfortunate but open world players just want to auto attack. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by vares.8457

[solzuul.6294]

14 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

Every time they try to make open world a little bit more difficult or challenging the casuals get a complete meltdown and spam the forum with complaints for months. We saw it with the DE meta. That’s very unfortunate but open world players just want to auto attack. 

Would be a dps increase for most. 🤣

[Danikat.8537]

How would this work in practice? How does LOTRO do it?

Guild Wars 1 was able to have seperate hard mode and normal versions of each map because everything was instanced for just your group. But GW2 uses persistent maps and generally tries to avoid segregating players more than necessary so the only way I can see to make this work is making the player weaker, and I'm not sure that would be popular. (Also it's already possible by using less or worse equipment.) It certainly wouldn't be as interesting as enemies with more and better abilities.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

27 minutes ago, solzuul.6294 said:

Would be a dps increase for most. 🤣

I brought my weekly BL key character to the Pavilion, I could reach about half of the required DPS DE had with starter gear(+levelup greatsword) on Guardian. 

[Parasite.5389]

at level 40, i'd be interested to know what Zones you're currently exploring, because the obvious answer is, Go to a higher zone.

[Randulf.7614]

36 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

How would this work in practice? How does LOTRO do it?

Guild Wars 1 was able to have seperate hard mode and normal versions of each map because everything was instanced for just your group. But GW2 uses persistent maps and generally tries to avoid segregating players more than necessary so the only way I can see to make this work is making the player weaker, and I'm not sure that would be popular. (Also it's already possible by using less or worse equipment.) It certainly wouldn't be as interesting as enemies with more and better abilities.

From their wiki. Keep in mind it is a brand new feature. As far as I can tell its a buff which scales the quest up in increasing levels (9). It's kind of like an open world version of fractals applied to specific quests in the open world as far as I can work out

 

"Landscape Difficulty is a set of quests currently available on on all servers that are designed to make landscape encounters more difficult for players in exchange for granting bonus experience points and titles.

All landscape difficulty quests are bestowed by Hardened Traveller and are available once players complete the introduction."

[Gravitron.7982]

4 hours ago, BlindChance.3678 said:

I recently dipped in for 40 levels or so into the game after 10 years break. I cannot believe that with all those level scalling features already here GW2 still does not have open world tiers for players who want to adjusst general content difficulty.

Please don't tell me to do endgame content, or specific events / expansions,  to get that experience. This stuff should be available from level 1 by a click of a button, so those who want it can enjoy slightly different approach to the open world combat.

That's a good point you bring up, if GW2 doesn't already have this feature they definitely should!

[Vayne.8563]

43 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

From their wiki. Keep in mind it is a brand new feature. As far as I can tell its a buff which scales the quest up in increasing levels (9). It's kind of like an open world version of fractals applied to specific quests in the open world as far as I can work out

 

"Landscape Difficulty is a set of quests currently available on on all servers that are designed to make landscape encounters more difficult for players in exchange for granting bonus experience points and titles.

All landscape difficulty quests are bestowed by Hardened Traveller and are available once players complete the introduction."

But this game only has the story quest, everything else is a dynamic event. You expect Anet to program a public world event, which they call dynamic events, to affect different characters differently. It's easier in an instance, but I don't think it would be satisfying even then.  Nothing would have more skills, just hit harder and have more health. The bosses wouldn't be any more interesting than they are now.

When people looking for difficulty they're not really looking for an HP sponge. They're looking for more interesting mechanics, and something where skill makes a difference. The way this game is structured, you'd just be putting yourself against really boring foes that hit hard. Anet can't add different mechanics to every boss in the game, and in the open world it wouldn't work at all. Probably could be done in some quests in quesst hub games, but this isn't a quest hub game.

[Randulf.7614]

6 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

But this game only has the story quest, everything else is a dynamic event. You expect Anet to program a public world event, which they call dynamic events, to affect different characters differently. It's easier in an instance, but I don't think it would be satisfying even then.  Nothing would have more skills, just hit harder and have more health. The bosses wouldn't be any more interesting than they are now.

When people looking for difficulty they're not really looking for an HP sponge. They're looking for more interesting mechanics, and something where skill makes a difference. The way this game is structured, you'd just be putting yourself against really boring foes that hit hard. Anet can't add different mechanics to every boss in the game, and in the open world it wouldn't work at all. Probably could be done in some quests in quesst hub games, but this isn't a quest hub game.

I’m not expecting them to do anything. I merely said it was interesting and replied to someone asking how it worked there. I’m by no means saying it should be added here or is feasible.

I think you are better aiming the comment at the op than me

[Khisanth.2948]

13 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

When people looking for difficulty they're not really looking for an HP sponge.

Unfortunately that seems to be exactly what some people are asking for and sometimes it seems even some devs think the same. That is one of the biggest issue with any attempt at a discussion about difficulty/challenge. Too often it just devolves into HP sponges and oneshot from enemies. That is certainly going make things challenging but ignores if it is fun or interesting.

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Unfortunately that seems to be exactly what some people are asking for and sometimes it seems even some devs think the same.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Frozen_Maw