Rune effects that didn't get Relics

[coro.3176]

List them here!

1. Rune of Sanctuary - Gain a barrier with health equal to 10% of any heals you receive. (gone, as far as I can tell. No relics do this)
2. Rune of the Trapper. - Staple build-around rune for Ranger and DH
3. All the summon runes - well, that should clean up combat a bit

Edited August 22, 2023 by coro.3176

[Roadkizzle.2157]

Are there any lists of what Relics are available? I've only found a list of about 10.

[The Spiral King.2483]

Would honestly be easier to list the ones they kept, because holy kitten are a lot gone. And some seemed to have been sort of kept but functionally nerfed like Antitoxin (RIP).

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

13 minutes ago, The Spiral King.2483 said:

Would honestly be easier to list the ones they kept, because holy kitten are a lot gone. And some seemed to have been sort of kept but functionally nerfed like Antitoxin (RIP).

I don't think this is nessarily a nerf...but it depends on how it works.

When it says "can only effect an ally every 5 seconds" I assume that this language indicates that it's an ICD per ally, and not an ICD on the skill itself, which would have said "5s cooldown"

Meaning that it would be a buff.

If it's just an ICD on the whole effect, then ya, it would be a nerf. Should do tests before jumping to conclusions.

Edited August 22, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[sneakytails.5629]

There should have been a chart ahead of time so we know, they really need to make one now.

[Sandzibar.5134]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic ?

 

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Are there any lists of what Relics are available? I've only found a list of about 10.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic

   Most are gone. They are maybe 2-3 which have any use; most of the ones which keept the name are utterly nerfed versions of the old ones. I s like PvP in which since all runes are garbage 80% of builds use Divinity...

[Dadnir.5038]

-snip-

Edited August 22, 2023 by Dadnir.5038

[Zyreva.1078]

4 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

wow... Is it just me or most of those relics are crap? If I look at the wiki, they even got rid of the extremly useful passive unconditional 25% movement speed (They really don't want anybody to play things like core mesmer).

If i remember correctly, they said the 25% movement speed bonus is considered a "stat bonus" and therefore still aviable via runes (same for + x% boon and condi duration).

Edited August 22, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Dadnir.5038]

Just now, Zyreva.1078 said:

If i remember correctly,they said the 25% movement speed bonus is considered a "stat bonus" and therefore still aviable via runes.

Yeah, I saw that, which is why I shut down my post 😅

The change to the rune is less bad than expected

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

If i remember correctly, they said the 25% movement speed bonus is considered a "stat bonus" and therefore still aviable via runes (same for + x% boon and condi duration).

  The only runes which still provides +25% movement increase is Traveler. Traveler  anthrax levels of bad since it onluy provides 252 stat points (regular runes with 2 starts provides 400 stat points) and +15% boon duration (good boon duration runes as Leadership or Fireworks provide +25% boon duration). So the lamest, most useless "jack of all nothings" rune is now the only which provides movement increase to sloth classes (most of them, since traits with +25% movement pace are rare and passive skills have a cost of oportunity). Ugh...

Edited August 22, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Zyreva.1078]

14 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  The only runes which still provides +25% movement increase is Traveler. Traveler Traveleris anthrax levels of bad since it onluy provides 252 stat points (regular runes with 2 starts provides 400 stat points) and +15% boon duration (good boon duration runes as Leadership or Fireworks provide +25% boon duration. So the lamest, most useless "jack of all nothings" rune is now the only which provides movement increase to sloth classes (most of them, since traits with +25% movement pace are rare and passive skills have a cost of oportunity). Ugh...

That's disappointing if true. I expected them to keep the movement speed on surging or fireworks at least. After all the whole purpose of relics is supposed to be "more freedom with stat choices". Locking such a crucial bonus to a single rune does the opposite.

But who knows, maybe they just want to make a "5s superspeed on dodge, no icd" expansion relic more appealing or something like that.

Edit:

2 minutes ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

well 25% is on surging in pve/wvw runes still.

Good to know, ty.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Sandzibar.5134]

well 25% is on surging in pve/wvw runes still.

the pvp version is the shocking aura

Edited August 22, 2023 by Sandzibar.5134

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

well 25% is on surging in pve/wvw runes still.

the pvp version is the shocking aura

   Didn't known about Surging. Still:

* Rune of Surging is a huge nerf compared to old Fireworks; 0 procs of might, fury and vigor...

* Rune of Surging cost in tokens is MASSIVE, whereas Fireworks cost was, what? One gold coin yesterday? Now its value is 0...

   Now, Surging > Traveler, no doubt, but I did use Fireworks in 7 of 18 characters; I won't grind 7 x 7 runes of Surge. I will grind a set and the rest will remain as a mules, and won't play them again. I didn't make a large roster of playable characters and build for over 11 years just to see how with a single gear piece change all falls apart. I won't wait a new expansion in which ANet hypotetically would do the same intoducing a belt, a nipple piercing or an anal plug as new gear to mess all again and make everything useless and force a regrind again.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Stx.4857]

Aristocracy effect got left out.  5 stack of might when applying weakness.  

[Leo G.4501]

🤣😂🙃

I figured it would be a rough transition (some people were boasting an *increase* to diversity lol)

That being said: I'm sure, over time, they will add more relic effects...rebalanced, of course. Likely to be more "streamlined" (also read: made more similar) to make future balance easier. Expect the same course for the new weapons coming up.

[Archangle.7648]

Biggest change I can see is loss of the Rune of Rebirth effect - negating a downing blow.  This was used in a number of speedrun strategies (using superspeed to leap into a void to trigger a checkpoint, and then rebirth effect lets you survive the "fall" when the game teleports you back to solid ground) and to survive certain boss mechanics which dealt high but not automatically lethal damage (it was often used as a safety net on Deimos Hand Kites).

[Teknomancer.4895]

Superior Rune of the Mesmer kept the +33% Daze duration, but there is no relic replacement for its "increase strike damage dealt to dazed foes by 10%." OK maybe it's niche, but still a nerf to that rune. "Relic of the Deadeye" is a very similar damage bonus, but the version that benefits the Mesmer is simply gone.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Teknomancer.4895

[Dadnir.5038]

To be fair, they sold us a rework of the rune system that could have been really good but at release it look like they just failed with disappointing relic effects and runesets that still gatekeep useful effects behind poor stats choice.

• Why exactly did they make the poor choice to keep the passive 25% movement speed on the runeset instead of puting it on the relic? If there is 1 effect that deserved to be put on the relic it's the passive movement speed increase.
• Why couldn't they use the opportunity to replace all those "% boon duration" and "% condition duration" by concentration and expertise? It's been 8 years already that concentration and expertise have been introduced in the game to replace such effect and despite 2 runes rework they have yet to make the change!
• Why do we still have so many runesets after this rune/relic rework? There is at least 70% of those runesets that nobody ever used and, amongst last 30%, 20% were only used for their 6th rune effect. Will we end up with 90% useless runesets only existing for the sake of providing an illusion of choice?
• If the person who designed Relic of astral ward is a developper, the game database is going to be a serious mess! Who in it's right mind would think that it's smart to ask the player to use a signet in order to gain a "signet" that will be consumed to create an effect upon using a signet?
• What is this relic of firework for exactly? I mean, yeah, elementalists are probably the only one that can get the most out of this thing while thief have absolutely no possibility to ever use it. Why even create this?
• Why are there so many relic that are tied to utility skill category that only a minority of profession have access to? Cantrip? Mantra? Trap? Stance?... etc. Seriously? Did you really dedicate relics to skill sets that only 2-3 professions have access to?
• Even the bad design of dropped consumable bundles manage to force it's way into the relics... I'm baffled.

To me, the rune part of the rework is a waste of an opportunity to clean a big mess while the relic part is poor for build diversity as a big part of the relics effect favor the few over the mass.

[The Boz.2038]

14 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

2. Rune of the Trapper. - Staple build-around rune for Ranger and DH

Oh hells yeahs.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

37 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

To be fair, they sold us a rework of the rune system that could have been really good but at release it look like they just failed with disappointing relic effects and runesets that still gatekeep useful effects behind poor stats choice.

• Why are there so many relic that are tied to utility skill category that only a minority of profession have access to? Cantrip? Mantra? Trap? Stance?... etc. Seriously? Did you really dedicate relics to skill sets that only 2-3 professions have access to?

To me, the rune part of the rework is a waste of an opportunity to clean a big mess while the relic part is poor for build diversity as a big part of the relics effect favor the few over the mass.

People ask for that kind of design btw and that's why, you get it...the reason you will see any kind of sterilization of ideas is because people are so kitten concerned about game balance...and well that is what happens and its not like I didn't sit here and didn't try to fight over this talk about balance over and over and over again. But history always repeats, and people will never learn.

Mind you, that the linked thread...this is not just one person, it's practically everyone that didn't actually think on it for more than 30 minutes about the topic. But here we are what were people expecting when every single thread was but what about the balance all the relics will be so op... then why wouldn't you get sterilized, weak, unimaginative relic effects.

Still... even with the bland relic effects, the separation of stats from rune/relic, was a really good idea, and I'm glad that's in the game...I also I think it's this particular point that is actually carrying the intrigue of the somewhat bland effects. Some of the relic effects are interesting and credit where credit is due on those...Like Relic of the Necromancer seems very interesting and i can see a lot of builds that might use it...Relic of Mabon...Relic of Lyhr...and a couple others.

I also think the design of some of those interesting runes that I named...are exponentially better than what we had before, both in terms of balance and in diversity... now if all of the runes were designed like that...i think there would be no issues.

Edited August 23, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Why are there so many relic that are tied to utility skill category that only a minority of profession have access to? Cantrip? Mantra? Trap? Stance?... etc. Seriously? Did you really dedicate relics to skill sets that only 2-3 professions have access to?

 

I think those kind of niche / tied to particular skill category  effects are actually pleasing. It's just for now there is not enough relics overall and those relics obviously decrease the numbers for all others classes/specs, despite also the loss of a lot of effects (radiance, sanctuary etc)

[Teknomancer.4895]

@Zhaid Zhem.6508

It's almost as if they rushed the expac out the door to meet some arbitrary corporate schedule (*cough* 2023-09-30 Q3 financial statement *cough*), whether it was ready or not.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

It's just for now there is not enough relics overall and those relics obviously decrease the numbers for all others classes/specs

That's exactly why I question the fact that they made niche relics when it's already questionable whether or not there are general relics worth using. Well, maybe by buying the next few x-pacs there will be an opportunity to get a decent relic... (40 "free" and then 12 per x-pac... I hope they will have the decency to list the relics of the futur x-pacs...)

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

13 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's exactly why I question the fact that they made niche relics when it's already questionable whether or not there are general relics worth using. Well, maybe by buying the next few x-pacs there will be an opportunity to get a decent relic... (40 "free" and then 12 per x-pac... I hope they will have the decency to list the relics of the futur x-pacs...)

I just said why bro…people wanted that design (niche stuff) because they think that’s a balanced thing to do. “Restrictions” was the headline sentiment on this forum for the past few months and transiently for several years.