How the new daily system in Wizards Vault reduced my enjoyment of GW2 [Merged]

[Sobx.1758]

26 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

(Notice: this does not mean i'm equalling Vault rewards, fomo, gambling, smoking and/or drugs. It's just for illustrating the flaw in the reasoning).

That's right... In other words: strawman.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Hesione.9412]

24 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's like saying that gambling (*) does not need to be regulated, because gambling addiction is a "you" problem someone needs to deal with on their own.

(*)you can insert in this place also smoking, drinking, or even narcotics toeven better illustrate why this "logic" is massively flawed. (Notice: this does not mean i'm equalling Vault rewards, fomo, gambling, smoking and/or drugs. It's just for illustrating the flaw in the reasoning).

It's not gambling. You get what you want. There is zero chance that you will get something else. There is zero chance you have to pay more than what is shown for the item.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Hesione.9412

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's like saying that gambling (*) does not need to be regulated, because gambling addiction is a "you" problem someone needs to deal with on their own.

(*)you can insert in this place also smoking, drinking, or even narcotics toeven better illustrate why this "logic" is massively flawed. (Notice: this does not mean i'm equalling Vault rewards, fomo, gambling, smoking and/or drugs. It's just for illustrating the flaw in the reasoning).

And yet FOMO still ain't an issue with Wiz Vault. Wiz Vault has issues but FOMO ain't one of them

[Geronmy.3298]

Of all the problems that you can say the Vault has, FOMO is not even on the list.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

12 hours ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

I think this is a very good request, which should imo not be a big hard thing to implement. 

Imagine players with 100s of multiple accounts with character lvl 10 not unlocking map beyond queensdale not progressing further just to get very simple easy dailies compared to other players... 

They'll demand the same thing not getting spoiled story wise not getting pressured to go unlock different maps but full reward access in wizard vault

 

The objective of WV is to get players to engage on content at the same time, reward their participation... not the old system all over again.

[Astralporing.1957]

6 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

Imagine players with 100s of multiple accounts with character lvl 10 not unlocking map beyond queensdale not progressing further just to get very simple easy dailies compared to other players... 

They'll demand the same thing not getting spoiled story wise not getting pressured to go unlock different maps but full reward access in wizard vault

 

The objective of WV is to get players to engage on content at the same time, reward their participation... not the old system all over again.

So, you think doing a vista in Cantha is harder than a vista in core area, or that doing an event in cantha (say, HP point in arborstone) is harder than doing an event everywhere else?

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, you think doing a vista in Cantha is harder than a vista in core area, or that doing an event in cantha (say, HP point in arborstone) is harder than doing an event everywhere else?

I just pointed out a worst outcome.. the over all objective of Wizard vault is to engage players in various maps, various events... thats it... I dont like to deviate from that... so u think thats a good idea to implement WV to give u dailies based on ur lvl1 character... queensdale crowded with bots or who knows what 10000 characters farming WV dailies?

 

even if WV objectives tells the players to go to a different map diff expansion he/she owns, it only motivates them to do the story.. worst thing maybe they will skip a daily for few days.. even then dailies have a leeway now u can skip one but still complete dailies 4 out of 5.. or if they want dailies 100% badly, they can choose WvW or pvp which isnt tied to story spoiling.. too many options

Edited September 29, 2023 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Aliblabla.3670]

Just now, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

I just pointed out a worst outcome.. the over all objective of Wizard vault is to engage players in various maps, various events... thats it... I dont like to deviate from that... so u think thats a good idea to implement WV to give u dailies based on ur lvl1 character... queensdale crowded with bots or who knows what 10000 characters farming WV dailies?

well perhaps not level 1 characters, but the expansions you bought why not.

Sure bots are a problem, you see afk farm also often. But this doesn't mean in my opignion you should implement a system that is unfair to actual players

And honestly i don't see why manualy handling 100 accounts should be consideret a bad way to play the game. Its basicly alt parking pushed to the next level. Which brings me back to my post actually. Why do players feel the need to do alt parking in the first place? Doesn't a game which is promoting this instead of promoting engaging in the game have some kind of problem? In my opignion its exactly some kind of fear of missing out. There are a lot of aspects in the game where you missing out on loot even if you choose to engage in them. Isn't that a basic problem that you have to choose between engaging with content of the game or having loot and make your characters progress? 

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

2 minutes ago, Aliblabla.3670 said:

 Doesn't a game which is promoting this instead of promoting engaging in the game have some kind of problem? In my opignion its exactly some kind of fear of missing out.

Wizard vault is not promoting alt parking.. the suggestion to give objectives based on progress might be indirectly promoting that(example lvl1 character will get same objectives over and over that can be botted and alt parked or whatever).. I don't see how u landed on that conclusion with WV... Idk what can solve ur FOMO phobia.. the players i play with doesnt have those phobia

 

7 minutes ago, Aliblabla.3670 said:

There are a lot of aspects in the game where you missing out on loot even if you choose to engage in them. Isn't that a basic problem that you have to choose between engaging with content of the game or having loot and make your characters progress? 

"even if i choose to engage in a content, i miss out on loot"? idk what ure talking about... if i choose to engage in a content thats part of an objective, I get rewarded  thats how it works..

u present an option to choose between engage in content and having loot ... why make it a eitehr or.. why not do both? engage and get loot? and character progression is subjective.. idk what u have in mind.. some ppl consider unlocking fashion is progress.. some consider raid, hard content as progress, some consider getting rich comparing rank in GW2 efficiency leaderboards,.......

 

so.. If u claim FOMO tactic is present in WizardVault... on a scale of 1 to 10 how would u rate it?

how would u feel even if u get teh dailies done 4 out of 5 and miss out on the 5th optional objective.. how much FOMO phobia would u feel on a scale 1 to 10?

 

 

[vares.8457]

The wizards vault has nothing to do with FOMO, that’s nonsense. You get more than enough Astral Acclaim to buy everything interesting. 

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

maybe anet should take a survey how many GW2 players have severe FOMO phobia condition and take decision t oeither leave teh current WV system as is or in worst case, revert teh entire daily rewards to old system...

or.. idk if majority of players have too many alt accounts and they decide to ignore the game's health and focus only on daily rewards and their E-pixel-currencies and the survey might be invalid.. whatever... I dont care.. I trust anet's decisions on this one..

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

2 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

The wizards vault has nothing to do with FOMO, that’s nonsense. You get more than enough Astral Acclaim to buy everything interesting. 

I agree.. I already got what I wanted from WV.. now i just ignored the daily and just do what i like in the game and if that is part of the daily, i just collect the astral acclaims or some days i even forget to collect them but i don't fuss over it

Edited September 29, 2023 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[WaifuJanna.9108]

Getting an unique item everytime, but later at a higher price is not fomo.. Then every Sale in the world would be fomo..

Fomo is if you have to do it know, or you will never get it again (or might get it again sooon but dont know when).

 

[Aliblabla.3670]

5 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

Wizard vault is not promoting alt parking..

Thats not what I was trying to say. My point was that we talk about Wizard Vault because of the same reason that people do alt parking. Acces to loot which is considered easyer than engaging with the game

 

""even if i choose to engage in a content, i miss out on loot"? idk what ure talking about... if i choose to engage in a content thats part of an objective, I get rewarded  thats how it works.."

Why are there maps which are almost empty and other maps which are full most of the time? Sure you get some loot everywhere but its almost insignificant compared to toher places. 

"so.. If u claim FOMO tactic is present in WizardVault... on a scale of 1 to 10 how would u rate it?"

I never said that the Wizard Vault is increasing my personal experience of fomo. In my first post I actually stated the oposite. Which doesn't mean that I think we should ignore members of the community who feel that way. My point is that this discussion is more about acces to loot and the Wizard Vault is one way to acces loot among others.

[WaifuJanna.9108]

30 minutes ago, Aliblabla.3670 said:

Thats not what I was trying to say. My point was that we talk about Wizard Vault because of the same reason that people do alt parking. Acces to loot which is considered easyer than engaging with the game

 

""even if i choose to engage in a content, i miss out on loot"? idk what ure talking about... if i choose to engage in a content thats part of an objective, I get rewarded  thats how it works.."

Why are there maps which are almost empty and other maps which are full most of the time? Sure you get some loot everywhere but its almost insignificant compared to toher places. 

"so.. If u claim FOMO tactic is present in WizardVault... on a scale of 1 to 10 how would u rate it?"

I never said that the Wizard Vault is increasing my personal experience of fomo. In my first post I actually stated the oposite. Which doesn't mean that I think we should ignore members of the community who feel that way. My point is that this discussion is more about acces to loot and the Wizard Vault is one way to acces loot among others.

to be fair in gw2 you can be on any map and see a lot of players, their "map-id/layering system" is really good.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

I just pointed out a worst outcome.. the over all objective of Wizard vault is to engage players in various maps, various events... thats it... I dont like to deviate from that... so u think thats a good idea to implement WV to give u dailies based on ur lvl1 character... queensdale crowded with bots or who knows what 10000 characters farming WV dailies?

You don't get dailies now until you hit level 80. So, at the minimum you'd get the whole core (as well as southsun, SW and Dry Top). And yes, i think it's not a good idea to push players to fast-forward story just to be able to do dailies.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, WaifuJanna.9108 said:

Getting an unique item everytime, but later at a higher price is not fomo.. Then every Sale in the world would be fomo..

Well, many of the sales events are based on this exact marketing trick. The name being relatively new does not mean the marketing strat itself is new. It is not.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You don't get dailies now until you hit level 80. So, at the minimum you'd get the whole core (as well as southsun, SW and Dry Top). And yes, i think it's not a good idea to push players to fast-forward story just to be able to do dailies.

So new players who doesnt even know what a Wizard vault is.... starts playing gw2 they  arent FOMO phobiad when playing from lvl1-lvl80

but when they reach lvl80 they somehow got the idea of earning more items(even if they dont know what items they are) rather than enjoying the game story they somehow get focussed on Wizard vault and feel it as FOMO?

and even when the new player reach lvl80.. dailies completion is at 4/5 rather than 5/5 but still they are worried about that 1 extra daily(which is in different region diff story) which is not even required to complete the daily

 

Is that what u guys are trying to say?

When I started playing GW2, I clearly remember what my mindset was back then.. I never understood what items important whats not.. I never cared about finishing dailies.. never worried about i might be missing out on something that i dont know / dont understand / dont even know existed

If a player really cared about story gameplay and enjoy those aspects he would never worry about a Lizard Vault if there is one until they complete all story and they have nothing else to do or get inspired by something along the way and then set goals then he worries about rewards..

 

maybe u guys are talking about a player who already has a maxxed out account and he gets a new alternate account and knows whats what .. the ywill definitely worry about rewards and missing out on rewards..

If we talk about missing out rewards... lets see how many days it takes to complete the entire gw2 story... a month at max? so a new player misses out one single reward from dailies everyday- WV rewards for a month.. then he wouldve completed story and unlocked all maps content.. then he wont miss out thereafter... but if ure talking about some player who takes like a year to complete gw2 entire story, then he would never would worry about missing out on rewards.. either he isnt investing time on game or not interested in anything else than the story gameplay..

 

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

should a MMO find ways to make players gather in spots or shd it be like a single player game and spread out the players?

If WV gives dailies exclusively for each player based on their progress, they would run in these issues:

they'd get a minidungeon example "long way around" underwater minidungeon which they would have no idea of and spend too much time to figure out how to complete it and they either get frustrated on time spent or go thru wiki if they are aware of it

since they are new to teh game, they might find it hard to complete it either due to manpower or knowledge to solve it

also they will never get teh feel of an MMO when theyre the only one waiting infront of the tears of itaocl minidungeon dont know what to do and dont have proper gear to kill the enemies which spam poison, knockbacks and stun

 

now that WV gives objectives common for everyone, players will gather and they overcome the objective either thru manpower , community help, ....

they even get the feel of an MMO and they get to interact with teh others

[Vayne.8563]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:35 AM, Futeko.9405 said:

I can't really answer about the FOMO appearing more often, I've seen it and I've been using it for over a decade as it describes a bad feeling I have to deal with in my day-to-day life (even outside games unfortunately).

I am aware of that quote from ANET stating exclusives will remain available in the Legacy tab, and that's exactly my point: if legacy rewards can be bought only with AA, then it means the number of exclusive rewards you can buy with AA will only get bigger. The more rewards you "miss", the more AA you'll need to "catch up", and since you can only get so much AA per cycle, that is FOMO-triggering because it could be if you miss too much AA you won't be able to "catch up".

That is why I mention that if legacy rewards were to be made available for also other currencies than AA, that would dispel that trigger, because then you could always catch up no matter what.

I certainly realize from a rational perspective this is "making mountains out of molehills", and there certainly are ways to mitigate that feeling (e.g. by prioritizing buying exclusive items first, so you know that from then on every AA you miss is "just gold" and nothing exclusive), but the fact is the WV does not help manage FOMO due to introducing a time-gated exclusive currency whose rewards portfolio increases with each cycle. That is my issue.

Fear of missing out isn't something games to do you, it's something we do to ourselves.

If you have FOMO from this, that's absolutely your problem, but FOMO always existed in this game. Always. From day one. This is not an evolution toward fomo.  Don't log in during Halloween, the goodies are gone till next year. Don't check the cash shop, the item that you wanted was on sale and gone, till some random time when it might or might not be available again. Don't participate in a bonus event, you miss the rewards from it.

We've had dailies forever, monthlies a long time ago, and we have living world chapters that you had to log in to get for free.  Fomo existed if you wanted to get certain achievements, every other month at festivals.

Saying that we're evolving to fomo isn't really true in this case, because the cosmetic rewards will all still be available and there's a ton of currency on offer. 

What you're feeling you might not be able to turn on and off, but let's not pretend that FOMO hasn't been here since  launch.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Fear of missing out isn't something games to do you, it's something we do to ourselves.

It's both. It's something we do to ourselves, but it's also something devs intentionally aim at to get advantage over us.

[Peregrine Falcon.5496]

FOMO is something that's been in this game since launch. Dailies, Weeklies, stuff coming and going on the Gem Store. None of this is new.

FOMO isn't a problem when you have just a tiny bit of self-discipline. Save some money every month, don't spend it all on candy and extra large drinks at Starbucks every day. Go to the gym, I don't care if it's boring. Constantly look for promotions and/or better paying jobs. A little bit of self-discipline will literally improve every aspect of your life.

I've been playing GW2 since launch. I get stuff when I want and if I miss a window, oh well. It's just a game.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

15 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's like saying that gambling (*) does not need to be regulated, because gambling addiction is a "you" problem someone needs to deal with on their own.

(*)you can insert in this place also smoking, drinking, or even narcotics toeven better illustrate why this "logic" is massively flawed. (Notice: this does not mean i'm equalling Vault rewards, fomo, gambling, smoking and/or drugs. It's just for illustrating the flaw in the reasoning).

If you can point me towards a casino where I can go in, spend 5€ on chips or whatever is being used and then choose where the ball will land you can make comparisons to gambling. 

If you know the objectives and the rewards you are not gambling. You don't roll the dice when you buy the Legendary chest, you buy it, you get it.

If rewards are only available during a certain time frame and never again it is clearcut FOMO. If rewards are free or cheap for a certain time frame, but expensive later it can still be categorized as FOMO, good example is Living World, free during it's release window, 200 gems after.

If the rewards are still available later for the same price, but are replaced by something new it is not FOMO. 

People see dailies and weeklies and go crazy over FOMO while the previous system worked the same, you don't log in you miss out on AP, gold and other rewards and get the daily login reward later.

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You don't get dailies now until you hit level 80. So, at the minimum you'd get the whole core (as well as southsun, SW and Dry Top). And yes, i think it's not a good idea to push players to fast-forward story just to be able to do dailies.

Being at level 80 isn't the same as uncovering the whole map or finishing the whole core story, so I don't see the logic of your response here.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Gorani.7205]

Of course ANet is using marketing and psychological tricks you could describe as "creating a fear of missing out". With this expansion and the WV the pressure on the player has increased to play more for over all better rewards. But that isn't the problem I see. My biggest issue currently is ANet's unpredictability in what they add & remove from the game. That is very volatile and random and creates a bad feeling when it comes to the WV, AA and future updates.
(e.g. changing Legendary Runes by taking away effects then add those to Relics without any concrete statements on Legendary Relic and its aquisition; removing PvP & WvW potions from the game without a warning; randomly adding new AA rewards to the special tab in conjunction with saying nothing about the state of legacy rewards and changes to the Starter Kit in future seasons; shelving development of WvW Alliances)

Edited September 29, 2023 by Gorani.7205