How the new daily system in Wizards Vault reduced my enjoyment of GW2 [Merged]

[Scar.1793]

I love how people dismiss OP’s suggestions for improving the system, which is indeed flawed.

it even hurts Anet’s bottomline because I don’t want to buy SoTO and get dailies/weeklies for maps I haven’t unlocked yet. I want to go at my pace with the story on my freshly rerolled character.

Generally the dailies and weeklies are not too hard to complete but it still heavily pales to the many options you had previously. Old daily login rewards was also better in terms of rewards, it was more reliable and allowed you to spend your time doing what YOU want and not on dailies with restricted tasks.

[Shadow Chaser.1948]

Really sad reading about OP's comment. People only play for rewards? Gaming sure has changed.

Personally, I do special task and whatever rest gets done as I play game and I earn enough gold to buy few shinny I want.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Shadow Chaser.1948

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

4 hours ago, Shadow Chaser.1948 said:

Really sad reading about OP's comment. People only play for rewards? Gaming sure has changed.

Personally, I do special task and whatever rest gets done as I play game and I earn enough gold to buy few shinny I want.

Many people see the rewards, fixate on it and get upset when it's harder than what they'd like it to be.

[Imba.9451]

12 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

They way you interpret it is wrong.  It's much simpler than that.

Unless you think you're going to overcome misinformation, advertising, psychology, change human nature, alter the people around you, and basically rewrite everything that exists, you're going to have to build up some defenses just to live your life. You're going to have to learn to question advertising if you want to have some semblence of control. You're going to have to learn to fact check and not take everything you hear at face value.

I would love to change the world. It would be fantastic. Businesses can stop advertising and give up their power. Politicians can stop lying. And people won't make games with FOMO. It's possible that will happen. But the reality is we live in a world where that is happening all day every day all around us.

By all means, try to change it if you think you can make a difference, but within the context of that taking time and probably not happening at all, learn to take a bit of personal responsibility. Game makers are always going to add things to involve you in their games. Always. Because there's so much competition and everyone else is doing it.

Anet did this in the best way possible. They gave us a ton of currency we can get. They gave up options, particularly now, on how we get that currency, they've added currency, they don't charge real money and they'll have a legeacy vault for cosmetics.

If you're going to rail against change, by all means do so, but this isn't the change to rail against. This is an example of it being done right.

I am not railing against it and made it very clear in my first post, that I think it is done in a fair way.

Yet I share my thoughts. I neither bash the system, nor do I say "it's on you, it's optional", because it isn't that simple. People are different. And acting as if everyone can achieve to get thick-skinned like you suppose would be nice. It is unrealistic though. So I simply advocate for awarness regarding this. Being met with an "it's on you"-attitude does not help. Because by this logic, every predatory mechanic in games can be dismissed by basically saying "haha, weak ppl fell for it. It's their fault for being weak.". Weaponizing "human nature" and "psychology" against people is not the most moral thing to do in my book, and should not be handwaved away.

Again, I even side with you on the topic of it being rather fair. I agree, that people should be informed, critical thinkers that can manage to defend themselves against manipulation attempts. That doesn't mean that such attempts should be excused. (After all, if someone gets shot, wou wouldn't say "Well, should have owend a gun yourself and shot first" either. At least I hope so.) After all, it is and will be player retention first and foremost though, built to create habits. Assuming anything else (like pure benevolence) is naive. And thinking in such black and white categories of responsibility, guilt and developer intentions is quite contrary to being an informed, critical thinker.

[Vayne.8563]

51 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

I am not railing against it and made it very clear in my first post, that I think it is done in a fair way.

Yet I share my thoughts. I neither bash the system, nor do I say "it's on you, it's optional", because it isn't that simple. People are different. And acting as if everyone can achieve to get thick-skinned like you suppose would be nice. It is unrealistic though. So I simply advocate for awarness regarding this. Being met with an "it's on you"-attitude does not help. Because by this logic, every predatory mechanic in games can be dismissed by basically saying "haha, weak ppl fell for it. It's their fault for being weak.". Weaponizing "human nature" and "psychology" against people is not the most moral thing to do in my book, and should not be handwaved away.

Again, I even side with you on the topic of it being rather fair. I agree, that people should be informed, critical thinkers that can manage to defend themselves against manipulation attempts. That doesn't mean that such attempts should be excused. (After all, if someone gets shot, wou wouldn't say "Well, should have owend a gun yourself and shot first" either. At least I hope so.) After all, it is and will be player retention first and foremost though, built to create habits. Assuming anything else (like pure benevolence) is naive. And thinking in such black and white categories of responsibility, guilt and developer intentions is quite contrary to being an informed, critical thinker.

I don't see a game encouraging people to play it, or rewarding them for playing it regularly being an attempt at manipulation. That's like saying stores putting stuff on limited time sale is an attempt at manipulation. There are a lot of stores, there are a lot of games. Stores are trying to sell you something, but if they're honestly just lowering the price of something to get you to shop there, it's not manipulation. 

This Wizard's Vault has got me playing more, because the rewards are better, but people have complained about the rewards in this game for ages. A cynical person would say that Anet is just trying to manipulate us, because they want us to log in, but they're not charging us more for that. Another person might say that Anet has finally given us better rewards. If it's fair, then it's necessarily an attempt to manipulate. 

I get why people would be sensitive to others trying to influence them, but in this case, even the Fomo is minimized by the way it's set up. 

[Imba.9451]

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I don't see a game encouraging people to play it, or rewarding them for playing it regularly being an attempt at manipulation.

The line is very thin here. Especially when optional monetization is included.

 

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

That's like saying stores putting stuff on limited time sale is an attempt at manipulation. There are a lot of stores, there are a lot of games. Stores are trying to sell you something, but if they're honestly just lowering the price of something to get you to shop there, it's not manipulation. 

That absolutely IS an attempt at manipulation. Because why do you do that? because you want to evoka a certain emotional reaction: Buy now cheap, else you may have to pay more if you want to have the product.

Just because one may associate the term "manipulation" with some evil puppeteering does not mean that provoking an emotional response outside of certain extremes is not manipulation. It's in the term itself.

 

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

This Wizard's Vault has got me playing more, because the rewards are better, but people have complained about the rewards in this game for ages. A cynical person would say that Anet is just trying to manipulate us, because they want us to log in, but they're not charging us more for that. Another person might say that Anet has finally given us better rewards. If it's fair, then it's necessarily an attempt to manipulate. 

I get why people would be sensitive to others trying to influence them, but in this case, even the Fomo is minimized by the way it's set up. 

I kinda agree on you here. It's not one of those battle passes that need you to be playing 4hours a day so you don't miss anything after you paid for it. Even further, it isn't even that different from the system before. The rewards are way better per time spent than with the daily login system anyway.

[Astralporing.1957]

22 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

First off, most (I'm not sure if all by now) achievements which are unavailable have been either made available or have had their achievement points removed.

Untrue. The only case where they removed AP points was when capping some achievements with infinite AP potential (and that happened years ago, back in core game). Meanwhile there's still a ton of historical achievements that are no longer accessible but give AP to those that have them. And while some of achievements from that list were recently readded (those tied to LS1), many weren't - and the list still keeps expanding. One of the last times i remember something like that happened was during IBS (when they disabled a Drakkar "dodge all attacks" achievement that was too easy to cheese and added new one as a replacement). And the removal of old "hero guide" achievements happened  even later, if i remember right.

Basically, when they remove an achievement (due to various reasons, but usually due to them being either too easily cheesable, when they were supposed to not be easy to get, or due to the system design changing, like the case with hero guide), they do not really remove them. They just make it impossible for new people to get them. And they do not remove APs associated with them.

[rainhelm.3827]

Unfortunately you're having this disccussion in the den of whales OP, it will not go very well for you.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, rainhelm.3827 said:

Unfortunately you're having this disccussion in the den of whales OP, it will not go very well for you.

This whole idea that "since they disagree with me, it means they must be whales [so they don't care or w/e]" is convenient, but false.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

2 hours ago, rainhelm.3827 said:

Unfortunately you're having this disccussion in the den of whales OP, it will not go very well for you.

This is news to me. I didn't realize I was a whale. 😂I'm not even a dolphin. I'm more like a tiny mediocre turtle just chillin' at the edge of a pond.

[Cyninja.2954]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Untrue. The only case where they removed AP points was when capping some achievements with infinite AP potential (and that happened years ago, back in core game). Meanwhile there's still a ton of historical achievements that are no longer accessible but give AP to those that have them. And while some of achievements from that list were recently readded (those tied to LS1), many weren't - and the list still keeps expanding. One of the last times i remember something like that happened was during IBS (when they disabled a Drakkar "dodge all attacks" achievement that was too easy to cheese and added new one as a replacement). And the removal of old "hero guide" achievements happened  even later, if i remember right.

Basically, when they remove an achievement (due to various reasons, but usually due to them being either too easily cheesable, when they were supposed to not be easy to get, or due to the system design changing, like the case with hero guide), they do not really remove them. They just make it impossible for new people to get them. And they do not remove APs associated with them.

Name a single achievement where this is the case from the last 5 years. One which got added, is now permanently unavailable and has had its AP not set to 0.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Astralporing.1957]

21 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Name a single achievement where this is the case from the last 5 years. One which got added, is now permanently unavailable and has had its AP not set to 0.

Sure. Nimble Onslaught. And, more recently,. whole Tutorial Mastery set (no direct link to wiki, but you can look it up in Retired achievements category).

Edited October 1, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Cyninja.2954]

40 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure. Nimble Onslaught. And, more recently,. whole Tutorial Mastery set (no direct link to wiki, but you can look it up in Retired achievements category).

Seems like an oversight, given the strive of the studio to add old achievements back in, but I will yield that I stand corrected.

[rainhelm.3827]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This whole idea that "since they disagree with me, it means they must be whales [so they don't care or w/e]" is convenient, but false.

I love how you take it so personally even though I took no part in the debate myself.

Edited October 2, 2023 by rainhelm.3827

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, rainhelm.3827 said:

I love how you take it so personally even though I took no part in the debate myself.

I don't need to take something personally to comment how it doesn't really make sense.

[rainhelm.3827]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't need to take something personally to comment how it doesn't really make sense.

So your imaginary opinion of what I must be thinking of you doesn't make sense to you?

I don't remember asking your opinion or ever pointing fingers at you.

Edited October 2, 2023 by rainhelm.3827

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, rainhelm.3827 said:

So your imaginary opinion of what I must be thinking of you doesn't make sense to you?

I don't remember asking your opinion or ever pointing fingers at you.

I never said you pointed fingers at me, that post just didn't make sense in general, avoided everything anyone wrote in this thread and took a position of "welp, people disagree because whales, good luck OP!". It didn't make sense not "because I somehow thought you were talking about me specifically" (I don't know where you even got that from, so maybe it's time to stop repeating this false theory?), but because it's a false premise dismissing disagreement for a fully made up, baseless reason. If you thought any disagreement in this thread is somehow unfair, you should directly point it out and say why instead of making that weird blanket statement based on nothing. That's it and at no point I thought you somehow "wrote specifically about me". 🤷‍♂️

Edited October 2, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[rainhelm.3827]

50 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I never said you pointed fingers at me, that post just didn't make sense in general, avoided everything anyone wrote in this thread and took a position of "welp, people disagree because whales, good luck OP!". It didn't make sense not "because I somehow thought you were talking about me specifically" (I don't know where you even got that from, so maybe it's time to stop repeating this false theory?), but because it's a false premise dismissing disagreement for a fully made up, baseless reason. If you thought any disagreement in this thread is somehow unfair, you should directly point it out and say why instead of making that weird blanket statement based on nothing. That's it and at no point I thought you somehow "wrote specifically about me". 🤷‍♂️

Lmao okay buddy whatever you say

[Hsanrb.1570]

I don't know, I thought the old system had MORE FOMO because if you didn't find 5m to login... you wouldn't move the calendar so all the rewards, between the laurels... the mystic coins... some of the perks (like the one for logging in for 28 days.) were all delayed one day. I actually had to login (despite having no interest or desire to play) just to get my check mark, and is significantly worse than being able to skip a day, or a few days and play on my schedule and do tasks if I'm interested in them. Oh no, I want to play something else for a weekend, or I get caught up doing a few things and cannot play for a week... I can still bank AA and spend it IF I want something.

I think a reminder that you do not need 100% of the Astral Acclaim to get everything in the store should be stressed by the community. 1000 AA, which is the most expensive for a single item, isn't something that requires a significant effort to get. Most of the daily tasks are like 10m (break defiance, kill 10 enemies with some food/enhancement, dodge 3 attacks) and you can normally do a few weeklies in under an hour. Considering you have nearly 3 months to obtain something, you should have no difficulty acquiring 2 or 3 "big ticket" 1000 AA items before the new set comes out with the next update. I think this is the first time I took a week break from GW2, I haven't missed anything, I don't have anything I need to complete immediately (though I do want siege turtle, I'm not in a "have to have" position) and when I log in, I just casually browse the LFG to see what I can help fill and enjoy doing long forgotten content.

Games are supposed to be fun, not something you have to play every day like it's a job or work. Enjoy it and take a few days off... the missing AA isn't going to break the budget and the community will still be here when you return.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

Imagine f2p guildwars 2 with advertisements showing up on screen. And advertisements on loading screens to the new map. Would be a nice feature and then making it easyer to make gold. 

[kharmin.7683]

8 hours ago, rainhelm.3827 said:

I don't remember asking your opinion or ever pointing fingers at you.

You posted on a public forum.  Anyone can give their opinion whether or not you ask for one.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

11 hours ago, rainhelm.3827 said:

I don't remember asking your opinion or ever pointing fingers at you.

Don't make posts in a public forum if you don't want the opinions of random people.

[Assolador.3598]

On 9/27/2023 at 9:39 PM, Futeko.9405 said:

I feel it's important to note two things:

• "FOMO" is not something you can turn on or off at will. Trust me, if I could do without it, I'd gladly throw that away in a blink.
  • It's thus important to understand you can't easily rationalize FOMO away. As I mentioned in my post, I know you can get all the time-limited rewards without getting all the AA there is to get.
  • The issue is there is now an indirect link between the exclusive rewards and the dailies/weeklies. So if I miss out on AA I still feel like I'm missing on something I'll never get back, even if rationally, missing out on 30 AA is like missing one gold. That link just doesn't exist intuitively, and unfortunately FOMO works off emotions, not rationality.
  • The fact of the matter is that the WV is more prone to FOMO than the old system, if only due to the fact there is an exclusive currency that is time-gated. That is the issue in my opinion. If you as a player do not have FOMO then that's great, but please understand some other players have to deal with that, and any system that encourages that syndrome is problematic for them.
• Your mileage may vary depending on your preferred game mode and daily/weekly playtime.
  • On my side, PvE dailies took me 5-10 minutes each day with the old system. Today that average is only met with easier dailies - the days where we get more complicated dailies like Canthan minidungeons, they take upwards of 30 minutes. Weeklies add time on top of it all, and some of them require special arrangements of time slots (like strikes or long metas). As such I'm spending way more time doing dailies/weeklies than in the old system (and that's not counting Special tasks).
  • Therefore I feel it's also a fact that the new system just requires more time invested than the previous one. If that extra time is meaningless for you because you can enjoy a lot of game time, that's great, but please understand some other players might not have that luxury and might see that extra time eat a good chunk of their already limited playtime.

If a system makes a step forward increased FOMO and daily time investment, for some players that might be a tiny step, for others that might be a huge leap. I don't feel it's constructive to discuss whether it's a step or a leap for a particular player instead of discussing the nature of a system, its flaws, and what could be implemented to make it better.

don't try to explain fomo to gw2 ON the forums dude...

[bossdonut.1938]

so i was complain that jump puzzles and cantha dungeons were stupid so someone suggest i do WVW misson. what a scam. i have to capture 5 edge of the mist objectives and theres no one in here at all

 

another dead mission and wasted wizard points. why is there no reroll system

ugh

[Garrison Storm.3046]

I think it's been pointed out many times that you can exclude the tasks that you're not interested in, and still find plenty to do to get your wizard's bucks...

No wizard points are "wasted"; if you didn't succeed, then you didn't get them...

Not sure what a "reroll system" is exactly, but... seems like that would be nice for anything you mess up in life, wouldn't it? 

"Son, you were driving over the speed limit..."

"Maybe you're right, Officer... but... reroll!"

"Is that alcohol I smell?"

"REROLL, REROLL!!!"