Best celestial profession for open world currently?

[Pockethole.5031]

So I'm not sure what I want to play but I'd like for it to be celestial. To help narrow it down, which professions shine as celestials, and which ones don't? Or does it even matter which one I pick... can every profession be built to make use of celestial stats? 

[Comus.7365]

personally i feel like the celestial stat was made for Elementalists.

but i think all professions have at least 1 build that can make use of  it.

[Mongk.2458]

Celestial changes elementalist to something so fun. It gives the class everything it needs for open world.

[Mell.4873]

Honestly most Professions can use Celestial since they can all provide either group Quickness or Alacrity (self-boon in this case). 

The only real except is Power build that can't reach 100% critical chance or Condition builds that do better on Ritualist like Specter. 

 

My most favourite is Celestial Untamed since it can provide me with consistent Stability stacks. 

[Buran.3796]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:16 AM, Pockethole.5031 said:

So I'm not sure what I want to play but I'd like for it to be celestial. To help narrow it down, which professions shine as celestials, and which ones don't? Or does it even matter which one I pick... can every profession be built to make use of celestial stats? 

   I've been playing a lot solo builds vs bounties, most of the times with builds from Lord Hizen and albeit my preferences are biased due my likes for heavy armor professions I would give you my opinion about the best ones now with the implementation of the relics:

1) Celestial Mirage, double staff with nightmare runes and mirage relic. Pros: extremely easy to play, does good and consistent damage at any distance, has minions to distract foes, has lots of evades and i-frames. Cons: not much, other specs had stronger re-sustain and its cleanses were better in the past, but still can solo any bounty...

2) Celestial Vindicator/Herald, mace + axe + short bow, runes of tormenting or nightmare, mirage or durability relic. Pros: extremely tanky, can fight at any distance (with the SotO weapon Mastery), variety in legend and weapons of choice. Cons: lower damage, lost a bit of re-sustain with the rune changes, more demanding gameplay.

3) Celestial Reaper, staff + dagger + focus with flame legion runes, aristocracy or mirage relic. Pros: high damage, easy to play, durable. Cons: works best at close to mid range. 

 

   All of the 3 are good at dealing with both single target and mobs. Overall I would say that Mirage is the best; has lower re-sustain than the other two but the amount of i-frames is huge and you can even fight indirectly vs foes which reflect damage thanx to the clones, plus has a more chill gameplay with less key strokes and more focus in positioning. 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Firebrand is another top pick for celestial gear. Their skills are generally 70% condition damage but with pretty good power coefficients as well. With the amount of healing and boons you can pump out, they get great benefit from the both healing power and concentration. Works great for OW, and it's meta in some fractal groups and WVW. With the toughness, you can even tank in raids and WVW, but that's not a meta choice for most groups. Still good tho. Basically, a celebrand can be used in all game modes with very good effect.

I also use celestial gear on vindicator, same as someone posted above, but not for mirage. I prefer trailblazer's for mirage. You get better mileage and damage out of it with similar sustain.

[Khalisto.5780]

If you check lord hizen builds revs are always the most powerful, not sure if they use celestial tho

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

36 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

If you check lord hizen builds revs are always the most powerful, not sure if they use celestial tho

Lord Hizen's Recipe for OW build :
Step 1 : Celestial everywhere.
Step 2 : Cook in oven at 200º for 12-15 minutes.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Khalisto.5780]

39 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Lord Hizen's Recipe for OW build :
Step 1 : Celestial everywhere.
Step 2 : Cook in oven at 200º for 12-15 minutes.

it was trailblazer before celestial, not his fault if one stat is just better than the others

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

21 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

it was trailblazer before celestial, not his fault if one stat is just better than the others

I throw no stone, on contrary. Simply the pattern is obvious🙂

[Buran.3796]

2 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Firebrand is another top pick for celestial gear. Their skills are generally 70% condition damage but with pretty good power coefficients as well. With the amount of healing and boons you can pump out, they get great benefit from the both healing power and concentration. Works great for OW, and it's meta in some fractal groups and WVW. With the toughness, you can even tank in raids and WVW, but that's not a meta choice for most groups. Still good tho. Basically, a celebrand can be used in all game modes with very good effect.

I also use celestial gear on vindicator, same as someone posted above, but not for mirage. I prefer trailblazer's for mirage. You get better mileage and damage out of it with similar sustain.

   I have to disagree here. I've played with both the celestial and trailblazer varaints of Firebrand, Willbender and Mirage, and here is some data:

  In his last tier list Hizen puts celestial builds from Reaper, Mirage, Revenants and Mechanist (in no order) in the top tier. The first Guardian solo Open world spec in his list is Willbender, two tiers below, with Firebrand 6 tiers below and Dragonhunter as last wagon in the train. Let me explain the whys?:

   Firebrand has an amazing bag of tools, is swiss knife; you can deploy projectile deflections (Wall of Reflection, Valiant Bulkwark), instant stability on demand (Stand Your Grund!"), strong cc (Sanctuary) tons of cleanses, has access to aegis, regeneration... almost every boon. When you go Open World with a good FB build and full celestial it seems like your character has an answer to every situation, against every foe....  BUT,

   1) The damage is low: you might stacking is crap, playing alone and you barely reach 11k dps against a non dangerous foe, which is lower than Revs and Mirages and around half of what Rangers and Reapers can output. You won't be able to kill bounties with Restorer, or with tons of cc.

   2) Firebrand re-sustain is mediocre. Yes, Litany can full your HP each 20 seconds if played well but you will get hit more often than teh Mirage and your passive heals and regeneration is lower than with the Revs. In most of cases is not a problem, but agaist bounties and legendary bounties the thing changes a lot.

   3) Albeit you AoE damage is fine, Firebrand lacks in range. When you face bounties with Phase-Shifted your dps will halve. Your resources also aren't as spammable as in the other cases: your pages takes time to recharge, and your shouts and consecrations have long cooldowns.

 

   The Willbender won't have as many tools as Firebrand, but does way more damage (specially as your gear moves to Trailblazer, Carrion, Viper or Griever). The reason is simple: your main source of damage are burn stacks, and thanx to Whirling Light your starting burst can reach 10+ stacks than a Firebrand (30-35). Roul's has farmed some bounties in better times than with Revs, albeit running viper stats.  But there's some problems also:

1) The Willbender is a pure mele build, which is risky: if you get interrumpted your dps falls, and stability sources are finite The more aggresive your build is, higher the chances of being one shooted. Trailblazer, Dire or Carrion gear eases the way, but makes your dps lower.

2) Your cc is lower than in FB and the otehr builds and taking some compromises the damage.

 

   For that reasons I'll put WB and Firebrand in the mid to lower part of the tier list: they will smoke in seconds any group of veterans and most of regular champions due the bursting nature of the burn condition, but when facing foes with higher HP in long fights and dangerous attacks, as the Bandit Champions and Bounties you'll deplete your resources and you'll start to have troubles surviving and your damage will fall and the fights will take longer.

   Now, about the Traiblazer Mirage vs Celestial Mirage: I've used both; the damage is fairly equal. What gives the edge to the celestial stats is very simple: boon duration. You will have similar damage, armor and hp; your condi damage will be (and last less) lower but your phsycal damage will be better, but any boon you get will last at least 42% longer. That's huge, because you're playing alone, so with celestial stats you will have permanent fury, regeneratio, 25 stacks of might and very good uptime in vigor, alacrity and swiftness, to name a few.

   Now to put things in perspective: soloing the Siren's Landing  Champion Unchained Kingpin (the risen Harpy) with cele FB takes me ~5'30", with marauder Vindicator ~3'45", with cele Renegade ~3'30", with cele Mirage ~2'15". Or the 3 Elemental "tornado" Champions from Sandswept Isles: 7'00" wuth my marauder Vindicator, 2'25" in my first attempt with cele Mirage, I'm sure that can be done much faster, but that is not the point: the point is that I don't known how to play Mesmer, yet halves the times of specs which I've mained. 

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I throw no stone, on contrary. Simply the pattern is obvious🙂

    Four stat gear (Trailblazer) has 9.35% more stat points than three stat gear (Dire, Carrion...). Celestial stats has 74,38% more stat points than three stats gear. As long as you spec uses every stat point from celestial (as happens with builds with hybrid damage and powerful heals and reneneration) Celestial will be always stronger in PvE.

   The only spec at (solo PvE) the moment which is stronger with power stats than with celestial is Bladesworn, and is because stacks mega-attacks and can use those burst to self-heal if needed.

[zerothbase.7564]

Quote

   I have to disagree here. I've played with both the celestial and trailblazer varaints of Firebrand, Willbender and Mirage, and here is some data:

I agree. I consider firebrand to be S tier in most casual openworld content. If you are just running around zones, killing trash, doing metas, farming etc. Cele Firebrand is great! You've got a lot of everything for great aoe damage, and boons with a tool for every short, or medium hard/length fight.

But as stated by Buran, firebrand drops many many tiers if you fight a single hard target alone (or worse, try to solo a strike/fractal mission Hizen-style).

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Just now, Buran.3796 said:

    Four stat gear (Trailblazer) has 9.35% more stat points than three stat gear (Dire, Carrion...). Celestial stats has 74,38% more stat points than three stats gear. As long as you spec uses every stat point from celestial (as happens with builds with hybrid damage and powerful heals and reneneration) Celestial will be always stronger in PvE.

   The only spec at (solo PvE) the moment which is stronger with power stats than with celestial is Bladesworn, and is because stacks mega-attacks and can use those burst to self-heal if needed.

 

All depends what you expect to do.
I mean I respect Hizen knowledge of all specs and ability to solo contents; but that's not what the huge majority of players attend in OW or WvW. To farm packs of mobs and leech in meta events I  don't consider Celestial the "best builds" for most of classes, even for newcomers. Optimizing points and mights upkeep, offensive boons etc erase somewhat what players usually want : kill mobs fast enough.

[Buran.3796]

16 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

All depends what you expect to do.

 To farm packs of mobs and leech in meta events I  don't consider Celestial the "best builds" for most of classes, even for newcomers. Optimizing points and mights upkeep, offensive boons etc erase somewhat what players usually want : kill mobs fast enough.

   If you run a power or condi build with berserker or viper stats and dps traits and utilities  things will die faster, specially if you are in a large group.

   But if you're alone with that build and you meet one of the ten Bounty Hunters in central Tyria, or you try to do one of the Forged meta events in the desert lands, or to do a Bounty without help you probably will get your kitten kicked.

   When I do Palawadan events with other people I use a celestial Renegade build; it delivers permanent alacrity, provides stability and protection when needed, has tons of cc and delivers constant damage at any range, which only falls when I have to rezz some other (which is the reason why I run Jalis instead of Mallyx). Is impossible to claim "you're doing low damage" because I can solo any of the champions (outside the ships phase, which requires canons) including the boss. Sometimes I swap to power Vindi because is fun and does more damage, but doesn't help pugs in the same way. Is pVindi my fav build to solo champs, but when I need to solo a very hard bounty suaully swap to condi, due the better sustain (and because your condis ticks even when you're ceed). So for going alone in OW cele is 100% the way to go. Is just maths.

   By the way, the main reason some people does low dps in OW is not because bulds, stats or even rotations, but because they don't look what the foeas ere doing. People let the chaks to deploy pools of acid under their toes, or fire walls, etc... and instead of moving away they keep swarming the foe like rabid wolves and then get one-shooted. Then their damage goes low. 

[The Boz.2038]

Answers other than Elementalist are objectively wrong.

[squeegee.4320]

I main condi (sword/pistol) holosmith with Celestial gear.

It's super fun and it's nice to see things melt when you apply 25 stacks of burning in the space of a second.

[Buran.3796]

9 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Answers other than Elementalist are objectively wrong.

   Catalyst is the strongest OW performer amongst the Elementalist spec and yet is in second tier compared to the best ones in the game, and despite that is harder to play than a Mirage, Reaper or a cele Rev. The Weaver does  less damage and is also hard, whereas the Tempest is easier but the damage falls even further. An aditional handicap is that most of Ele gameplay is mainly mele or mid range, which means higher risk.

   Ele absolutely can stomp PvE content as solo, but requires pianist hands and taking risk. Meanwhile Mirage can do the same at range and while using your nose to press the skills...

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

If a build is capable of producing its own boons, celestial works great with it:

Cele Catalyst, Staff/Staff Mirage, Scourge, Revenant, Druid, Untamed Ect. In terms of best? Probably either Cele Catalyst or either Herald Or Vindicator. Both rev specs are kitten near invulnerable but Cata tends to deal more damage.

[Antrix.4512]

On 8/27/2023 at 9:03 PM, Buran.3796 said:

   I have to disagree here. I've played with both the celestial and trailblazer varaints of Firebrand, Willbender and Mirage, and here is some data:

  In his last tier list Hizen puts celestial builds from Reaper, Mirage, Revenants and Mechanist (in no order) in the top tier. The first Guardian solo Open world spec in his list is Willbender, two tiers below, with Firebrand 6 tiers below and Dragonhunter as last wagon in the train. Let me explain the whys?:

   Firebrand has an amazing bag of tools, is swiss knife; you can deploy projectile deflections (Wall of Reflection, Valiant Bulkwark), instant stability on demand (Stand Your Grund!"), strong cc (Sanctuary) tons of cleanses, has access to aegis, regeneration... almost every boon. When you go Open World with a good FB build and full celestial it seems like your character has an answer to every situation, against every foe....  BUT,

   1) The damage is low: you might stacking is crap, playing alone and you barely reach 11k dps against a non dangerous foe, which is lower than Revs and Mirages and around half of what Rangers and Reapers can output. You won't be able to kill bounties with Restorer, or with tons of cc.

   2) Firebrand re-sustain is mediocre. Yes, Litany can full your HP each 20 seconds if played well but you will get hit more often than teh Mirage and your passive heals and regeneration is lower than with the Revs. In most of cases is not a problem, but agaist bounties and legendary bounties the thing changes a lot.

   3) Albeit you AoE damage is fine, Firebrand lacks in range. When you face bounties with Phase-Shifted your dps will halve. Your resources also aren't as spammable as in the other cases: your pages takes time to recharge, and your shouts and consecrations have long cooldowns.

 

   The Willbender won't have as many tools as Firebrand, but does way more damage (specially as your gear moves to Trailblazer, Carrion, Viper or Griever). The reason is simple: your main source of damage are burn stacks, and thanx to Whirling Light your starting burst can reach 10+ stacks than a Firebrand (30-35). Roul's has farmed some bounties in better times than with Revs, albeit running viper stats.  But there's some problems also:

1) The Willbender is a pure mele build, which is risky: if you get interrumpted your dps falls, and stability sources are finite The more aggresive your build is, higher the chances of being one shooted. Trailblazer, Dire or Carrion gear eases the way, but makes your dps lower.

2) Your cc is lower than in FB and the otehr builds and taking some compromises the damage.

 

   For that reasons I'll put WB and Firebrand in the mid to lower part of the tier list: they will smoke in seconds any group of veterans and most of regular champions due the bursting nature of the burn condition, but when facing foes with higher HP in long fights and dangerous attacks, as the Bandit Champions and Bounties you'll deplete your resources and you'll start to have troubles surviving and your damage will fall and the fights will take longer.

   Now, about the Traiblazer Mirage vs Celestial Mirage: I've used both; the damage is fairly equal. What gives the edge to the celestial stats is very simple: boon duration. You will have similar damage, armor and hp; your condi damage will be (and last less) lower but your phsycal damage will be better, but any boon you get will last at least 42% longer. That's huge, because you're playing alone, so with celestial stats you will have permanent fury, regeneratio, 25 stacks of might and very good uptime in vigor, alacrity and swiftness, to name a few.

   Now to put things in perspective: soloing the Siren's Landing  Champion Unchained Kingpin (the risen Harpy) with cele FB takes me ~5'30", with marauder Vindicator ~3'45", with cele Renegade ~3'30", with cele Mirage ~2'15". Or the 3 Elemental "tornado" Champions from Sandswept Isles: 7'00" wuth my marauder Vindicator, 2'25" in my first attempt with cele Mirage, I'm sure that can be done much faster, but that is not the point: the point is that I don't known how to play Mesmer, yet halves the times of specs which I've mained. 

May I ask you what Mirage build you're using?

[The Boz.2038]

18 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Catalyst is the strongest OW performer amongst the Elementalist spec and yet is in second tier compared to the best ones in the game, and despite that is harder to play than a Mirage, Reaper or a cele Rev. The Weaver does  less damage and is also hard, whereas the Tempest is easier but the damage falls even further. An aditional handicap is that most of Ele gameplay is mainly mele or mid range, which means higher risk.

   Ele absolutely can stomp PvE content as solo, but requires pianist hands and taking risk. Meanwhile Mirage can do the same at range and while using your nose to press the skills...

All those three are either slower or less adaptive (or both) than CeleEle of either flavour, and only Reaper approaches the Immortality of it.

[zistenz.1945]

On 8/27/2023 at 11:38 AM, Buran.3796 said:

3) Celestial Reaper, staff + dagger + focus with flame legion runes, aristocracy or mirage relic. Pros: high damage, easy to play, durable. Cons: works best at close to mid range. 

Flame Legion doesn't give +7% damage against burning foes since the arrival of the relics, so Hizen's modified Dhuumfire-based semi-perma-shroud build doesn't work anymore as before. Or there's an another application where FL runes are still worth something?

[Buran.3796]

17 hours ago, Antrix.4512 said:

May I ask you what Mirage build you're using?

   Sure:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PigAYZlZwQYRsEmJWyP9PNA-DyIY1oivMysE6NDE+hAAA-e

[Buran.3796]

7 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

All those three are either slower or less adaptive (or both) than CeleEle of either flavour, and only Reaper approaches the Immortality of it.

   Yeah, but with ele you need to known the class and how to use it. With Mirage you don't. I don't have a clue of what F1-F5  (never use them) and yet kills things 25% faster than Rev, which is my main and which I known to much larger extent. Clestial Mirage is like the old buffed Rifle Mech, but better due both damage and defense are better and instead of projectiles which can be blocked or reflected you spawn AoEs and attack indirectly, plus you also reflect back...

   As some streamers said, the most used builds are not necesarely the ones with the best damage output but the ones which while doing good damage demand less effort to work with. The same happens in OW high sustain builds: power Bladesworn has amazing dps but it is so concentrated in the Dragon burst that if you fail oftenly due you don't known well when the enemy will use blocks, or cast cc to interrupt you a lot of times you will end doing 0 and wasting seconds of charging into nothing.

[Mell.4873]

On 8/28/2023 at 3:07 AM, Khalisto.5780 said:

If you check lord hizen builds revs are always the most powerful, not sure if they use celestial tho

The problem with his builds is they often I involve a somewhat silly rotation. It often uses precise positioning or movement skills. Most of the time you can't expect player to cartwheel around the target when doing damage.