RANGER REALLY?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

25 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

I hope your elo suffers horrifically when your cruch is removed.

I've been top 250 and only play condi druid but go off 😃.

26 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Pig Pet - Coeffs are a little high, a small reduction should be more then enough. Could even consider keeping this if ranger survivability is nerfed instead.

By ranger, do you mean Soulbeast? As you seem to be conflating a lot of things here.  As try using the pig pet unmerged and see where it gets you lol.  I think the OP was even dying to that as they wanted a 60s CD on Sic' Em but I can't be assed to find it, so take that with a grain of salt.  

Also, on the build that is discussed in this fabulously titled all caps topic, there is zero survivability on it.  So, if you nerf survivability which the build doesn't use, and keep boar maul intact---you've come in a circle.  Or worse you nerf other ranger builds for zero reason and keep the one everyone is complaining about intact...that doesn't seem super logical.

From my perspective, you tone down Strider's Strength a bit in sPvP.  It's the only thing that changed besides the sword you and a few others are saying is fine.  Things like OWP, Sic Em' and WH #4 have been around forever, and no one paid any mind to it. 

Finally, mentioning mesmer isn't moving a goal post, it's a counterpoint to that stupid manufactured video being thrown around.  Hilariously the counterpoint comes from the same creator of the video beating a soulbeast at a disadvantage of surprise (and returning cheese for cheese with literal Moa) and then dying to his own class with literal one button press.  All clipped by members of his own community...

 

[jdawgie.1835]

11 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Thank you for actually reading what im typing out, its really refreshing

Wasnt aware warhorn 4 did that, that needs to be patched. Should allow the chance to interrupt and provide a semblance of counterplay.

Sword really needs no changes from what ive seen. Fully agree to this.

Pig Pet - Coeffs are a little high, a small reduction should be more then enough. Could even consider keeping this if ranger survivability is nerfed instead.

GS - The damage is fine, its the utility with said damage im not a fan of. Being able to block with GS for example is too much utility in a weapon kit that allows for cc, distance engage and great damage. Also find the auto chain giving endurance is too much when you can already block, its a double survivability enhancer.

Your very welcome brother - its refreshing for me too. We been getting met with only troll responses for days. Really wild. So thank you as well. Okay so we seem to agree with eachother on a few points ill respond in turn. 

We agree on the Warhorn fix it seems - the focus is how the opponent should be able to interact with it. Damage isnt the issue. 

We agree on sword as well it seems (No Changes)

We agree on Pig pet (Small if it all nerf on pig pet)

We agree on sustain in relation to your Greatsword feedback - Here is my take: I have a question for you? I would like to see the kit stay the same however remove the stealth from ranger. To me that is whats not needed. I really like the skirmisher type playstyle of the melee ranger - very much and engaging - and it has to be up front in the fight to do it. GS4 and 3 alow for non cheese disengages - for this reason i dont think ranger really needs the stealth. To be honest I dont use it when I play it. How do you feel about that? 

11 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

The main problem here is that ranger has this damage while providing little counterplay, untargetable damage via smokescale assault which leads into an instant engage that cant really be countered.

I think that addresses this - I agree is what I am saying with the over abundance of sustain - I just want to be able to stay in the mix on melee ranger - I enjoy timing GS4 kicks into evades to juke. Stealth is an extra layer of security I dont need to do this. Essentially - If im asking to stay in the fight and mix it up at far or whatever 2v1 and be able to exhange - I would agree that I shouldnt be able to also stealth while doing it. I want to be able to stay in the fight and have the tools needed to do it - not stealth out. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Pig Pet - Coeffs are a little high, a small reduction should be more then enough. Could even consider keeping this if ranger survivability is nerfed instead.

Seconded.  If you have high burst you should have reduced defensive capability, like the other classes that fell into this archetype eventually got adjusted to.

That being said, I am not a fan of ruining muscle memory, so I'm more inclined to agree with normalizing pig. That and bird reaction window are a good place to start.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Kuma.1503]

My only real issue is birds. And as usual, hiding important tells in stealth. 

One shots coming directly from stealth is just cheese. And that is not a term I throw around often. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Balsa.3951]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:40 AM, Burial.1958 said:

Balance atm is a joke. One shots everywhere xD

agreed I play DH it can wipe whole teams 

but play style is so freaking unfun now.

its set traps wait for customers and press 5  3 1

all downed

but moment i start move around on map im slow and easy target.

I really don't like play Guardian now

 

[Balsa.3951]

On 8/28/2023 at 7:38 AM, jdawgie.1835 said:

Yeah alot of times people dont want to work together.

It doesnt take a God to press B on start of the match and assess the comp your about to go up against. Review the specs, adjust accordingly, and make educated guesses based on what the other team is running. Two core guards? One likely a support, other could be burn guardian. What do you get from this? Run power instead of condi (because the support will clense away the condi damage, add cleanses to ur utility to have a way to sustain yourself against the burn guard) Try to do this will each comp your up against. Eventually, itll take 15-20 seconds to get  basic assessment of your opponents. 

the tip is good

what to switch if see ranger ?

[Arheundel.6451]

Like every NERF thread on GW2 forum: Nothing to read...absolutely nothing to read, the same output as with every other Nerf thread before remove all sources of sustain, all dmg and a painted target on the back of the class.

 

 

[Flowki.7194]

I thought Id give soulbeast a go and see for myself how it is, and omg 😜 cmon who is defending this bs?  Every weapon or pet you swap to has hard or soft cc along with high dmg abilitys, 3x evades, and multiple gap closer/escapes.  Oh and not to forget; Smoke cloud

 

Its low on clense and raw sustain, but with that amount of evades/hard-soft cc I mean jesus, more than makes up for it. Its like the best bits of Herald and Spellbreaker have been dumped into 1 spec +chrono level dmg withought the need to wait for 3 clone stacks. Only played a few games and already won multiple 1v2s. I havent done that on chrono and certainly not on fa power cata.. takes way more skill that I simply didnt have, after months of playing it.

 

Its just nasty, what else can I say. Hunters call+smoke assault into takedown+call of wind+serpent strike and at no point, unless they have stab,  do they even get a chance to hit you back. Then the charge+maul+bash+maul+lash+maul.. again lots of hight dmg during ample cc. If they have stab you still got dolak and griffon (oh and counter). So they have to dodge, immune, mitigate through all this, and somehow also hit you back during multiple evades/counter.. this isn't just a noob stomper. 

 

Im not even going to make suggestions of balance, but that spec is not balanced. But I will say, FA cata melted fast if caught, thats what made it so hard, you could not fight back while immune/blocking, which dropped your pressure, it had only 1 real cc, and the dmg was nowhere near this level.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[jdawgie.1835]

10 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

My only real issue is birds. And as usual, hiding important tells in stealth. 

Agreed.

10 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

One shots coming directly from stealth is just cheese. And that is not a term I throw around often. 

One Shots should be dodgeable I.E. Maul hit like a truck but you can roll around that. I dont think ranger shud be providing its own stealth for 1 shots - so we agree there. 

 

10 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

the tip is good

what to switch if see ranger ?

Scrapper, Will Bender, Vindi/Powerheralrd, Condi specterr all give SB a really hard time. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

I dont think ranger shud be providing its own stealth for 1 shots - so we agree there. 

This is why to me, shaving damage only on soulbeast is way to go.

Nerfing smoke cloud is a bad idea for every other ranger spec that needs to combo off it--we're only seeing 'one shots' on soulbeast atm.  Smoke cloud is actually fairly hard to land outside a setup situation as you have to go to the smokescale, which isn't always in a great position or swap to it which burns a swap. 

The only other source of stealth we really have is hunter's shot--which is a way easier combo into a one shot, but projectile hate is currently shutting that down fairly well.

A few of us ranger mains have said this a few times now, but the problem with soulbeast and specifically soulbeast is might stacking which leads to this burst.    

The rest of ranger defensives and weapons I cannot advocate for touching since I'm going to guess most everyone in this topic has only played meme soulbeast and nothing else so has no idea how weapons work outside of that.  

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

My only real issue is birds. And as usual, hiding important tells in stealth. 

One shots coming directly from stealth is just cheese. And that is not a term I throw around often. 

I don't think the Birds have ever killed me, I just dodge and heal. 

[Kuma.1503]

5 hours ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Scrapper, Will Bender, Vindi/Powerheralrd, Condi specterr all give SB a really hard time. 

Can confirm on Scrapper and condi specter. Scrapper has a reflect, dodge, and block on hammer. Superspeed to kite away from ranger's short ranged attacks. And more than enough damage to threaten a kill. If the ranger is full melee, you just save hammer 4 for birds, and kite with nades and superspeed to whittle their health down. 

Big thing to watch out or is prelude lash. The immobilize on it can get you killed. Which is why I still like running sigil of escape on my scrapper anytime there's a ranger on the enemy team. 

Condi specter meanwhile. It's got perma prot, inflicts slow (very underrated condi tbh), steals their boons, loads them up with condis, ports around their melee attacks (Shadowstep alone will guarantee you never die to a prelude lash combo). If they're not being focused, they can just support whoever is with 5k barriers. 

 

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

I don't think the Birds have ever killed me, I just dodge and heal. 

Fair. That's not really my issue with birds. It the fact that they require 2 dodges to mitigate if you don't have a channeled block. I just want them to speed up the animaiton. Reduce the hits, increase the damage. That way one dodge is enough. Surviving birds can burn you out of resources pretty quickly. Not an issue for some builds I will admit. But for others with very few active defenses, they're pretty gross. 

They're doing the same thing mad king rune renegade did before it got nerfed. For the exact same reason. 

[jdawgie.1835]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

This is why to me, shaving damage only on soulbeast is way to go.

Nerfing smoke cloud is a bad idea for every other ranger spec that needs to combo off it--we're only seeing 'one shots' on soulbeast atm.  Smoke cloud is actually fairly hard to land outside a setup situation as you have to go to the smokescale, which isn't always in a great position or swap to it which burns a swap. 

The only other source of stealth we really have is hunter's shot--which is a way easier combo into a one shot, but projectile hate is currently shutting that down fairly well.

A few of us ranger mains have said this a few times now, but the problem with soulbeast and specifically soulbeast is might stacking which leads to this burst.    

The rest of ranger defensives and weapons I cannot advocate for touching since I'm going to guess most everyone in this topic has only played meme soulbeast and nothing else so has no idea how weapons work outside of that.  

They could add a way to reduce stealth in SLB only for smokescale - I.E. Stealth reduction while soulbeast traitline is active in pvp only.

[Aylpse.6280]

Wait, what? They still haven't fixed that Soulbeast build from a few months ago?

[Dreams.3128]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:06 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Suppose people get their way and ranger sword, pig, and wh #4 are nerfed (only one of which had major changes and is the only actual overtuned thing)--what does ranger get in return? 

Now you sit here and ask me that same question with half of the other classes/specs that got gutted with NO compensation.

Mesmer with Mirage Cloak? Engie with Stab, Rifle, AND Shield? Ele with Signets and some Scepter skills? Guard with any power build ever? Warrior with half of their traits? Thief with half of their skills and traits?

What makes these classes different and deserved to be pidgeonholed when Ranger has skirted any major, class-destroying or spec-destroying nerfs? Tell me exactly why they don't deserve to be touched when they have been running under the radar ever since EOD went live? 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

What makes these classes different and deserved to be pidgeonholed when Ranger has skirted any major, class-destroying or spec-destroying nerfs? Tell me exactly why they don't deserve to be touched when they have been running under the radar ever since EOD went live? 

Guess you missed the nerf to teleburst untamed which was the meta burst build for ranger prior to this slb one?

Or the fact that no one plays anything but burst slb so why would you nerf the other specs when they are unused?

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Guess you missed the nerf to teleburst untamed which was the meta burst build for ranger prior to this slb one?

 

Another flavor of no telegraph instant dps?

[Dreams.3128]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:18 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Guess you missed the nerf to teleburst untamed which was the meta burst build for ranger prior to this slb one?

Or the fact that no one plays anything but burst slb so why would you nerf the other specs when they are unused?

 

Now ask those same questions for the other classes for their other specs.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Now ask those same questions for the other classes for their other specs.

This mentality ruins games, the idea that because other classes are pigeonholed due to poor balancing the rest need to be is moronic at best, the idea should be to open up those other classes that are pigeonholed, how players get this mentality I'll never understand. Ranger is no different than other classes as its been pigeonholed many times into lb/gs builds for yrs, up until recent sword buffs nobody touched sword in any meaningful capacity in any pvp modes. The rangers pets even suffer from this as only a handful are ever used. Everything's always good when ur class is doing good but when urs not or other classes get some positive changes it's common for players to want that class destroyed, it's so strange lol.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Enduronex.4865]

On 8/26/2023 at 5:08 PM, Roxy Enjoy.1950 said:

Ranger need nerf on pets, smokescale longer CD and pig less damage, also sic em need rework, make it works ONLY on pet skills and not on weapons skills, the damage is insane atm.

The problem with pets is that enemy players are not rewarded for doing damage to them so long as the ranger swaps out in the 10+ seconds it takes to wind down a pet to 1%.  Same for the Jade Mech on Mechanist (although people aren't talking about Mechanist because it's not an effective class in PvP overall) AND that the ranger can heal the pet across the entire map with no range limits, even if the pet is set to attack a downstate player.  Whereas classes like necro, the minions need to be close to a healing source or they just plain die or on engineer you need an entire utility skill dedicated to repairing turrets; or thief with thieve's guild - the thief clones just die; or mesmer, where the clones just die (though I strongly disagree with invuln status being applied to mesmer illusions, that's whack).

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Now ask those same questions for the other classes for their other specs.

Practically every warrior spec right now is a decent pick, from CC spellbreaker to immortal bladesworn, to condi-zerker burst.

Q.E.D.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

On 9/2/2023 at 1:20 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

Like every NERF thread on GW2 forum: Nothing to read...absolutely nothing to read, the same output as with every other Nerf thread before remove all sources of sustain, all dmg and a painted target on the back of the class.

 

 

I liked you better when you were spamming nerf mirage threads/comments left and right.

[dead.7638]

9 hours ago, chromodynamix.2495 said:

or mesmer, where the clones just die (though I strongly disagree with invuln status being applied to mesmer illusions, that's whack).

You have to trait for that.   That’s not a given.

[Dreams.3128]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:09 AM, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

This mentality ruins games, the idea that because other classes are pigeonholed due to poor balancing the rest need to be is moronic at best, the idea should be to open up those other classes that are pigeonholed, how players get this mentality I'll never understand. Ranger is no different than other classes as its been pigeonholed many times into lb/gs builds for yrs, up until recent sword buffs nobody touched sword in any meaningful capacity in any pvp modes. The rangers pets even suffer from this as only a handful are ever used. Everything's always good when ur class is doing good but when urs not or other classes get some positive changes it's common for players to want that class destroyed, it's so strange lol.

My classes got destroyed by crappy, player mentalities and people did it with a smile. Don't come in here with this argument when people wrote about nerfs in droves and droves without any sort of hesitation. 

There are people that listed out the biggest issue when it came to ALL class balance and you think people care? People don't gain this mindset out of the blue, people gained this mindset because of the actions of others and Anet being dumb enough to listen to these forums/delusional players in any capacity. I am not saying I am a wizard, but if people took three seconds to realize HEY maybe ALL classes shouldn't be doing x, y, and z across the board, we'd have a healthier environment. 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Dreams.3128 said:

My classes got destroyed by crappy, player mentalities and people did it with a smile. Don't come in here with this argument when people wrote about nerfs in droves and droves without any sort of hesitation. 

There are people that listed out the biggest issue when it came to ALL class balance and you think people care? People don't gain this mindset out of the blue, people gained this mindset because of the actions of others and Anet being dumb enough to listen to these forums/delusional players in any capacity. I am not saying I am a wizard, but if people took three seconds to realize HEY maybe ALL classes shouldn't be doing x, y, and z across the board, we'd have a healthier environment. 

 

Wow so u think because some classes were wrongly or negatively changed(all of ours are in some way or at some point) that all classes should be dumpstered, instead of improvements being done to deal with the classes that were done dirty.....yeah good idea lmao wtf. If all classes did the same x and y across the board sure the balance would be perfect, of course almost literally everyone would leave the game because there would be no class identity, no reason to chose a class aside from visuals and would become a way less interesting and entertaining game to play in all modes.

A game like a mmo will never have perfect balance due to all its variables, variables needed to make the classes distinc from one another and appealing to play, all the mechanics present to make gameplay entertaining for more than a hr of playtime. If u want balanced pvp a mmo is the absolute worst game choice, for players that actually understand that and still prefer mmo pvp learn to accept that balance will always seem to favor some classes vs others and over time that could be completely changed and do a 180 now the favored classes are dumpstered etc.

Imo best approach would be make minor changes to classes that are in good spot over time to keep em interesting, make minor shaves on overperforming classes over time to bring them in line as to not kill builds people enjoy and focus on bring up classes and builds that have been over nerfed due to knee jerk reactions while giving loved to underused traits and weapons. That to me would leave game in a healthier state.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107