Power Creep, The game is too easy [Merged]

[Spike rr.7125]

SotO has brought an entire new level of power creep to the game. The new builds that are coming out are so awesome like scourge and herald. The issue is going back to older content just feels brain dead now. I do like that the game may be easier for some trying to get into the game however, there is no new stuff to be challenged by, especially with the new builds. If feel like Anet should really lean into challenge motes more and revisit earlier raid content and maybe update some of the trivial fractals. I want to be challenged by something other than HT CM. I want the power creep to come with some sort of area for the game difficulty to get its own version of power crept.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Let's hope we get a crucifixion balance patch soon. 

Everything over 40k DPS needs to be gone. 

[Dawdler.8521]

Maybe its about time someone start reacting, about 8 years after the powercreep began and dps has gone up 100%+

But if you want you can always go into a dungeon naked and equipped with rare weapons.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[Caffynated.5713]

11 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Maybe its about time someone start reacting, about 8 years after the powercreep began and dps has gone up 100%+

But if you want you can always go into a dungeon naked and equipped with rare weapons.

100% is an understatement. 8 years ago people were crying for nerfs because staff ele with frost bow pulled 10k DPS on large targets. 

[Chichimec.9364]

This OP says the game is too easy but this one says the game is too hard...
🤷‍♀️

[xellink.7568]

10 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Maybe its about time someone start reacting, about 8 years after the powercreep began and dps has gone up 100%+

But if you want you can always go into a dungeon naked and equipped with rare weapons.

since HOT, peak power is somewhere 27k (Core Hammer Guardian). The issue is that knowledge share wasn't as great at that time. So the average DPS per player is a lot less, about 5-10k. The minimum required to clear VG is 4.7k without enrage, which makes it a good starting boss. The special forces training area had limited access and that was only available in 2016. A lot of buffs required specialised roles. Mesmer for quick/alac, banners, spotter, etc. Hammer guardian is a very good build as it can provide full protection, full resolution, 25 stacks of vulnerability while hitting the required DPS even if all the boons aren't present, being very good in uncoordinated groups. This build remains relatively unchanged over the last 7-8 years. 100%+ is an exaggeration. 

This first video is from 2016.

The video below is my benchmark. 

[Tiamat.8254]

I'm fine with how the game is personally. They made the world bosses in starting zones more 'difficult' and now they are just boring fights that last longer than they should. Please don't encourage them to do more crap like this. 

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, xellink.7568 said:

since HOT, peak power is somewhere 27k (Core Hammer Guardian). The issue is that knowledge share wasn't as great at that time. So the average DPS per player is a lot less, about 5-10k. The minimum required to clear VG is 4.7k without enrage, which makes it a good starting boss. The special forces training area had limited access and that was only available in 2016. A lot of buffs required specialised roles. Mesmer for quick/alac, banners, spotter, etc. Hammer guardian is a very good build as it can provide full protection, full resolution, 25 stacks of vulnerability while hitting the required DPS even if all the boons aren't present, being very good in uncoordinated groups. This build remains relatively unchanged over the last 7-8 years. 100%+ is an exaggeration. 

This first video is from 2016.

The video below is my benchmark. 

If dps is approaching 45K today, you just explained why 100% isnt an exaggeration.

[xellink.7568]

7 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If dps is approaching 45K today, you just explained why 100% isnt an exaggeration.

100%= 27k

100% increase = 54k

100%+ is more than 54k. This is a mathing problem. 

There is at best a 60% increase in DPS. Do note that Core Guardian hammer isn't the most powerful performing build at that time, but its essential to take and considered the standard DPS because 100% protect was absent along with many boons unless specific classes were brought. I only quoted it because the auto attack build is still performing at the same level to this day and its viable and widely understood by old players who raided in that generation. 

If you are able to secure boons with a coordinated team, 39k is the peak. This benchmark was 6 years ago. Its hard to find older videos because as I mentioned, the golem only existed after 2016 and knowledge share was less pronounced. 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by xellink.7568

[Gendalfs.7521]

For those who cry PoWeR cReEp!!!

Anet should make achievements, like weekly: complete that or this without wearing armor or green armor and blue weapon. Give them something extra rewards and call it done.

I agree that maybe theres power creep, but more problem is there are those power spikes like why 1 class do 50k damage and other 30k? I know they talking something about power budget or how they call it, but at this point thats not relevant. Just make all classes fun to play.

 

[Caffynated.5713]

1 hour ago, xellink.7568 said:

since HOT, peak power is somewhere 27k (Core Hammer Guardian). The issue is that knowledge share wasn't as great at that time. So the average DPS per player is a lot less, about 5-10k. The minimum required to clear VG is 4.7k without enrage, which makes it a good starting boss. The special forces training area had limited access and that was only available in 2016. A lot of buffs required specialised roles. Mesmer for quick/alac, banners, spotter, etc. Hammer guardian is a very good build as it can provide full protection, full resolution, 25 stacks of vulnerability while hitting the required DPS even if all the boons aren't present, being very good in uncoordinated groups. This build remains relatively unchanged over the last 7-8 years. 100%+ is an exaggeration. 

This first video is from 2016.

The video below is my benchmark. 

8 years ago was pre-HoT. Things like perma quickness were not a thing back thing. Even things people take for granted now like perma fury, were not readily available without specific specs, and then you were giving up something else. After HoT, you could have everything. 

There's is no comparison between pre-expansion and post-exp power levels. 

[xellink.7568]

2 minutes ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

8 years ago was pre-HoT. Things like perma quickness were not a thing back thing. Even things people take for granted now like perma fury, were not readily available without specific specs, and then you were giving up something else. After HoT, you could have everything. 

There's is no comparison between pre-expansion and post-exp power levels. 

heart of thorns was released in oct 2015. Thats 7 years and 11 months ago. In 1 month that would be 8 years. The only difference now is that you don't get forced into specs and that these roles are much more accessible than before. But in terms of peak performance assuming a very dedicated group vs a more casual group, what I see is that the distance has greatly narrowed. The peak probably rose by 10% max.

Edited September 11, 2023 by xellink.7568

[DanAlcedo.3281]

33 minutes ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

I'm fine with how the game is personally. They made the world bosses in starting zones more 'difficult' and now they are just boring fights that last longer than they should. Please don't encourage them to do more crap like this. 

Thats only a problem because normally powercreep would mean the bottom line would also get stronger. But this didn't happen SOMEHOW. 

The average dude is still only pulling like 3-4k dps. 

 

[Caffynated.5713]

2 minutes ago, xellink.7568 said:

heart of thorns was released in oct 2015. Thats 7 years and 11 months ago. In 1 month that would be 8 years. 

Yes, I'm aware that 8 years ago was Pre-HoT. 

2 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Thats only a problem because normally powercreep would mean the bottom line would also get stronger. But this didn't happen SOMEHOW. 

The average dude is still only pulling like 3-4k dps. 

 

I don't see how anyone is still doing that little damage. As long as your support is buffing you, you can pull 10k+ just spamming 1 with all but the worst weapons.  You would have to be fighting in Soldier gear to do that little. 

[Astralporing.1957]

30 minutes ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

I don't see how anyone is still doing that little damage. As long as your support is buffing you, you can pull 10k+ just spamming 1 with all but the worst weapons. 

You don't need to see how they are doing it. You just need to see that they are doing it. And for that just run a dps meter in a world boss/non DE metaevent squad. And quite often in DE as well.

In short, it's still happening. Although i'd say that the average is more like 4+(up to sometimes maybe 6) k rather than 3-4k. Not that it changes much.

30 minutes ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

You would have to be fighting in Soldier gear to do that little. 

For a significant number of players out there a full level 80 exotic Soldier gear setup would be an improvement.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[DanAlcedo.3281]

28 minutes ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

Yes, I'm aware that 8 years ago was Pre-HoT. 

I don't see how anyone is still doing that little damage. As long as your support is buffing you, you can pull 10k+ just spamming 1 with all but the worst weapons.  You would have to be fighting in Soldier gear to do that little. 

Support on a world boss. 

[xellink.7568]

16 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You don't need to see how they are doing it. You just need to see that they are doing it. And for that just run a dps meter in a world boss/non DE metaevent squad. And quite often in DE as well.

In short, it's still happening. Although i'd say that the average is more like 4+(up to sometimes maybe 6) k rather than 3-4k. Not that it changes much.

For a significant number of players out there a full level 80 exotic Soldier gear setup would be an improvement.

Its not about reaching the end, its about how long they can enjoy the event. Its called karezza. 🤣

[Krajtin.8956]

Yeah, if there's one thing I like about this game, it's that the old bosses should be as hard as they were back in the day. But now they are like paper. We need to go back to HoT or PoF DPS.

I want to see all the parts of Dragon's Stand again and for the boss to last more than 10 minutes at least

Edited September 11, 2023 by Krajtin.8956

[willow.8209]

one thing i like about this game is often (not always!) the bosses and the amount of other mobs scale to how many players

So nobody ends up hardly able to do an earlier map when everyone else is playing the new map (this happened to me back in the day)

and nobody ends up hardly able to play a map because it's an off hour for the server

but if many people come, a lot of events bosses are not over in 3 seconds. 

While events will certainly get completed during the time it takes some to get there, most world boss won't

some WB and events still need scaling, but the point is scaling is a good feature

Edited September 11, 2023 by willow.8209
brain fog

[Elzo Yell.1784]

It's not a big powercreep if you check snowcrow's benchmark. Power weaver used to deal 41k, now it deals 44k at best. There are builds reaching 46k too, and we still need to test things to see if other builds could reach higher damage. For now, the main problem imo is scourge overshadowing every other DPS in the game, with almost the most easy gameplay possible and 49k DPS.

However, they did a good job by reworking boondps (even if there are still clunky builds like qdps Berserker), but it affected healers a lot, while HFB is still the best in term of flexibility, and capibility to give stab. Qdps Herald is very good because it uses the full potential of the core class, while qheal Herald is constantly denying sources of healing to give boons, while not being able to give stab.

For me, the main problem is more towards boonhealers and gameplay changes from the last big patch than the powercreep itself.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Elzo Yell.1784

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Elzo Yell.1784 said:

It's not a big powercreep if you check snowcrow's benchmark. Power weaver used to deal 41k, now it deals 44k at best.

Power weaver did 41k dps back in 2012-2013?

That must be so high dps they break the space-time continuum.

Then again it is an elementalist I guess.

[LadyKitty.6120]

5 hours ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

Yes, I'm aware that 8 years ago was Pre-HoT. 

I don't see how anyone is still doing that little damage. As long as your support is buffing you, you can pull 10k+ just spamming 1 with all but the worst weapons.  You would have to be fighting in Soldier gear to do that little. 

The trick: Celestial gears from lvl80 boost (or something even worse), bad weapon combo, non-DPS utility skills and random mix of traits without any synergy. Very common thing to happen for players who haven't done any squad content and taught better (which is likely the majority of players given the open-world focused nature of the game) and probably the #1 cause of game feeling very needlessly difficult.

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

This OP says the game is too easy but this one says the game is too hard...
🤷‍♀️

How does OP complains about game being too hard there? He complaints about "not being able to open t2 rifts solo" (which isn't correct as far as I'm aware?) and he literally says that rifts are easy enough:

On 8/24/2023 at 1:00 PM, Bai.2607 said:

Title. In thunderhead peaks, Tier 2 rift and I cannot open it myself, what kind of stupid kitten mechanic is this. Rip downtime people. Change this asap, rifts are easy enough as it is. Let us solo them if we want.

 

 

11 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Let's hope we get a crucifixion balance patch soon. 

Everything over 40k DPS needs to be gone. 

Doubt they'll nerf everything over 40k, but I also think they should.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[ugrakarma.9416]

the game shouldn't be balanced around these "golem testers", that's very biased.

[ugrakarma.9416]

The game shouldn't be balanced around these "golems testers" is very biased.

Their "uber DPS" runs over overcomplicated rotation's.