September 2023 Studio Update

[Burnfall.9573]

I know it's a different topic but, The implementation of The Holy Trinity, is the only way to bring the game back to order. So, Anet are there any plans, talks, update about returning Guild Wars 2 Philosophy back to its root?

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[prototypedragon.1406]

We need a Legendary boulder . In exchange can we toss our maces in the mystic toilet and use them to scrub the grime? At this point returning to it's roots may not be a bad idea. But unless Boons are redesigned at to be a bonus with limits and shorter durations rather then a requirement  along with reasonable balancing of skills coefficients and scaling weapons that one would think have weight behind them yet they don't  without some sort of secondary  effect such as if stability is present instead of cc it does damage and doesn't remove the stab as an example.  Boon scarcity is one thing  but without a way to counter boons that can be cycled permanently unless you do the same thing you are playing with self inflicted chains. But I think many of us  are out of taking stuff  with salt and grains and getting to the point the tomes of knowledge are not far behind being tapped out. Meaning the amount of each we have used over the years we are in the point of a mass shortage.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Or perhaps we can do a event where if we reach a total number of players as a community goal we can get a extra dev per milestone on the wvw road map / balance team👍

[Astralporing.1957]

13 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

I know it's a different topic but, The implementation of The Holy Trinity, is the only way to bring the game back to order. So, Anet are there any plans, talks, update about returning Guild Wars 2 Philosophy back to its root?

"implementing holy trinity" and "returning Guild Wars 2 philosophy back to its roots" are two sentences that do not fit together at all.

[Burnfall.9573]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:06 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

"implementing holy trinity" and "returning Guild Wars 2 philosophy back to its roots" are two sentences that do not fit together at all.

 

Implementing-putting or charged with putting something into effect, as a law, regulation, or policy

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/implementing

+

Going back to the roots is finding the meaning

https://blog.peacerevolution.net/going-back-to-the-roots-is-finding-the-meaning/

Edited September 20, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Originally Posted by Jon Peters, Arenanet

We here at ArenaNet just went through a round of interviews telling people about this exciting new Guild Wars 2 profession, the guardian. Not many of those conversations go by without someone wondering aloud if the guardian breaks the paradigm we set to create—a game without the Holy Trinity.
“So much for no Holy Trinity,” we’d hear. “Guardian is a paladin, dedicated healer, monk, tank…”


These folks are followers of the MMORPG genre who don’t get their hands on Guild Wars 2 every day, so I can’t say that I blame them. After all, what do they have to go on? Some things we said five months ago? A few anecdotes? The insistence of a few dedicated fans who defend us in forum threads?

In each interview we try to sprinkle in as much stuff as we can to support our ideas, but when this information isn’t all in one place it loses its weight and impact a bit. So I thought, why not collect all this information in one place?


It’s been a while since I wrote the GW2 healing and death article and frankly that article was a lot harder to write when the only profession examples I could use were the warrior and the elementalist.
I said something to Isaiah Cartwright the other day that has stuck in my mind since then. I think it explains how no trinity is possible more than anything else, so I’ll relay it here:

“Our professions aren’t dedicated healers, DPS, or tanks because frankly, we built a combat system that just doesn’t allow it.”


Many interviewers wonder if we are worried about making such a radical change, but to me the whole thing is just common sense for what we are trying to accomplish. I’d be a lot more worried about building GW2 combat with trinity professions than without them. I don’t want to speak for other games or other combat systems, but this system is just better for our game.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

Implementing-putting or charged with putting something into effect, as a law, regulation, or policy

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/implementing

+

Going back to the roots is finding the meaning

https://blog.peacerevolution.net/going-back-to-the-roots-is-finding-the-meaning/

Thanks for those dictionary lessons that do not change anything i have said - at the very roots of GW2 lie design assumption about it being no Holy Trinity. So, implementing it would be going against the roots of the game. If you want going back to the roots, it would mean removing pure healer specs completely, and going back to the original tanking mechanic where you cannot reliably control who the enemies will aggro on. So, the exact opposite of what you claim.

[Bladestrom.6425]

On 9/19/2023 at 7:06 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

"implementing holy trinity" and "returning Guild Wars 2 philosophy back to its roots" are two sentences that do not fit together at all.

exactly 🙂

In addition, trinity is dull as by definition it restricts the roles you play for predictability in content where such a thing is needed, which leads us to GW2:

Does PVE Open world need trinity - No, 

Does SPVP need trinity - No

Does Dungeons and fractals need trinity - No

Does WVW need trinity - No

Does Strikes need trinity - No

The only content that may  benefit from trinity is a some raids that most people don't play.

I think Anet know what they are doing.

[Burnfall.9573]

3 minutes ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

exactly 🙂

In addition, trinity is dull as by definition it restricts the roles you play for predictability in content where such a thing is needed, which leads us to GW2:

Does PVE Open world need trinity - No, 

Does SPVP need trinity - No

Does Dungeons and fractals need trinity - No

Does WVW need trinity - No

Does Strikes need trinity - No

The only content that may  benefit from trinity is a some raids that most people don't play.

I think Anet know what they are doing.

I think not 

[Burnfall.9573]

10 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Originally Posted by Jon Peters, Arenanet

We here at ArenaNet just went through a round of interviews telling people about this exciting new Guild Wars 2 profession, the guardian. Not many of those conversations go by without someone wondering aloud if the guardian breaks the paradigm we set to create—a game without the Holy Trinity.
“So much for no Holy Trinity,” we’d hear. “Guardian is a paladin, dedicated healer, monk, tank…”


These folks are followers of the MMORPG genre who don’t get their hands on Guild Wars 2 every day, so I can’t say that I blame them. After all, what do they have to go on? Some things we said five months ago? A few anecdotes? The insistence of a few dedicated fans who defend us in forum threads?

In each interview we try to sprinkle in as much stuff as we can to support our ideas, but when this information isn’t all in one place it loses its weight and impact a bit. So I thought, why not collect all this information in one place?


It’s been a while since I wrote the GW2 healing and death article and frankly that article was a lot harder to write when the only profession examples I could use were the warrior and the elementalist.
I said something to Isaiah Cartwright the other day that has stuck in my mind since then. I think it explains how no trinity is possible more than anything else, so I’ll relay it here:

“Our professions aren’t dedicated healers, DPS, or tanks because frankly, we built a combat system that just doesn’t allow it.”


Many interviewers wonder if we are worried about making such a radical change, but to me the whole thing is just common sense for what we are trying to accomplish. I’d be a lot more worried about building GW2 combat with trinity professions than without them. I don’t want to speak for other games or other combat systems, but this system is just better for our game.

I Appreciate you for posting this. I would like to share with you,  another player-Kroof insight, concerning The Holy Trinity

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Is that a Dev?  Someone that created the game? 

[Mephistion.1264]

Would love, love, love for y'all to do some sort of like WoW-esque "time walking" event, but for the one-off prelude or expansion/LWS events! Some of them were super cool and had some neat lore that was lost.

[Saints.1692]

Would love to see a "Return To Tyria..." type of event. What is in my mind is probably more extreme than what would actually occur for a weekly event. Though perhaps elements could be pulled or used as concept.

Essentially would love to see World Completion+ where we have an option to go through map completion of Core Tyria again. Maybe they award Gifts of Exploration, maybe not, maybe we can complete it multiple times and you just get a number for how many times you've rolled through it on that character. I love doing Map Completion, and only wish I could do it all again on my main character.

Another facet that could be really fun is to incorporate a Veteran Mode or even Fractal Scale to World Completion to increase the challenge level of overworld monsters for that particular character. Something that could allow us to use AR for more than just Fractals. If you wanted to go next level, add in an achievement or title for doing it again without dying, sort of a pseudo-hardcore mode. In a "Return To Tyria..." type of scenario you could even have AR versions of that to trial it out.

What I'm saying is I love Core Tyria so any reason to go back and revisit is something I'd love to see in the game. It doesn't even have to be anything new like invasions or ley-line anomolies (although those are great additions to keep the world alive). There is already a world here that is bursting at the seems with content, events, reknown hearts. It would be incredible to have it be a playground we could revisit.

[Bladestrom.6425]

22 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

I think not 

you think not to what?  GW2 has Massive build variety, 100% of the player base can access 99% of the content, no power creep, huge variability in game play i.e not just dps - spam dps, tank tank meat, heal heal stuff.  What exactly is trinity needed for? (apart from being 20 years behind the times)

Edited September 21, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Burnfall.9573]

4 hours ago, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

you think not to what?  GW2 has Massive build variety, 100% of the player base can access 99% of the content, no power creep, huge variability in game play i.e not just dps - spam dps, tank tank meat, heal heal stuff.  What exactly is trinity needed for? (apart from being 20 years behind the times)

[TheGrimm.5624]

Additional WvW Events:

• Spikem!!! : Players defeated with finishers are forced back to respawn
• Rollout!: At the start of each hour Dune Rollers are spawned at objectives for the side that controls the structure to use. They expire in 30 mins if not used. If used they have the normal 15 minute life cycle. 3 appear in each keep on all maps and 1 appear in each tower.
• The Lucky Yak! : Killing an enemy Yak has a new loot roll chance: 
  • Common roll options: extra coin, blue unidentified, 1 extra supply from kill drop 
  • Uncommon roll options: green unidentified gear, 2 extra supply from kill drop 
  • Rare roll options: yellow unidentified gear, 5 extra supply from kill drop, random rolled piece of Superior siege 
  • Ultra-rare roll options: 10 extra supply from kill drop, Heroic Booster buff, Guild Hero Banner, random rolled piece of Guild siege
• King of the Hill: Killing a player from the server that is in first place awards extra WxP and chances at an additional loot rolls
• Hold The Line!: Killing attackers with in a structure awards two extra loots rolls
• Let's Get Paid!: Killing defenders with in a structure awards two extra loot rolls
• Save the Yaks!: Killing enemy players in camps awards two extra loot rolls
• Headhunter: Killing players awards extra Badges of Honor
• Death From Above: Killing players with siege award extra coin rewards
• Salt The Earth: Killing siege awards extra coin and a badge of honor if it was manned at the time
• Watching The Bar Scroll: When deploying siege there is a 5 percent chance the blueprint is returned

Mind you some of these and the others could also be combined and run at the same time.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

And you think Holy Trinity would change that?

[dead.7638]

Fight blips that appear on bl and give extra exp for killing enemy within range of the blip.   Last 30 minutes and resets someplace else.

[Vayne.8563]

On 9/15/2023 at 7:24 AM, Trigarta.3841 said:

I never had a good time with the world restructuring betas. It's too random with whom you are matched with, except your own guild, nobody really cares about what's going on, finding decent commanders is hard.  Having that feature turned on full time without the actual alliancesystem in place sounds horrible to me.

Exactly the opposite to me. To me, alliances would ruin it.  It took you more than a week to meet your server anyway when you started. Home begins with your guild and very often ends with your guild. Over time, you'll have a couple of months to learn your server, and yes, there'll be new matches after that but...

The two reasons I don't go into WvW, is because of the lousy matchups, and I can't take everyone in my guild in. If I run guild events I have to leave people out. So I only go in rarely. I don't mind fair contests, but big mega guilds taking over is part of the problem. Adding alliances does the same thing. You'll just have bigger meta guilds. The trick is to have balance, and while people think they need huge sides, it's not the case. Let a bunch of smaller guilds figure out how to work together. Let's see some good fights that are even, instead of one or two sides that are toally dominant and everyone is arguing on the best way to get away from them.

I'm on Tarnished Coast and on teh weeks we fight Maguuma, people just don't play as much. Sure the hard core guys still log in, but it's pretty heart breaking.  I have no interest in standing in my home base being camped.  Not sure about you. People have all sorts of ways to keep people locked into their tier, like working to tie in second place, so Tier 1 stayes locked. That's just not healthy.

I'd be worried that alliances would create similar situations, where as world restructuring was fantastic for me.  Everyone has an opinion on this obviously, but I think better matchups are the only thing that will really make WvW playable again for the average player. 

[Sonork.2916]

Some WvW event ideas.

Roller Beetle weekend event.  Warclaws replaced with Roller beetles.  That's it.

Always revealed weekend.  A weekend where everyone shows up on the map and one of the most toxic mechanics in the game is absent.

Portal Peril! - Portals have randomly opened up across the wvw maps, the portals teleport players from one place on the map to another.  Players find loot when they use them..? But they don't last long and only so many can go through one.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Sonork.2916

[Burnfall.9573]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:40 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

And you think Holy Trinity would change that?

It would put an end to the '_instert Creep' race for all Professionsand focus in making the appropriate changes to Profession roles as a whole.

I view The Holy Trinity as the Law and Order that is needed to maintain the structure of order, guideline for Profession roles and enforcing and protecting Professions Identities.

The Holy Trinity is what kept Guild Wars Professions Roles and Identity in line and gave them meaningful meaning including its Philosophy and Vision.

Guild Wars 2 will die without The Holy Trinity by making changes to Anet Philosophy with the removal of Stealth Mechanic and the death of Thief Profession.  Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic are the Greatest Adversity and Threat  threat to Guild Wars 2 stability, lore and its name. 

Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic  must be eradicated and erased...there are no excuses, exceptions to this,

No amount of investment, endorsement, advertisement nor denial by Anet will save the game until it is happens. 

(This is my last post in the forum until the next patch)

Goodbye

Edited September 24, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

It would put an end to the '_instert Creep' race for all Professionsand focus in making the appropriate changes to Profession roles as a whole.

You have never seen a Holy Trinity game, is my guess? Because as far as power creep is concerned, GW2 is still very weak sauce compared to others...

1 hour ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

I view The Holy Trinity as the Law and Order that is needed to maintain the structure of order, guideline for Profession roles and enforcing and protecting Professions Identities.

The Holy Trinity is what kept Guild Wars Professions Roles and Identity in line and gave them meaningful meaning including its Philosophy and Vision.

No, it was not Holy Trinity that kept GW profession roles and identity in line. Case in point: the best healers of GW1 were N/Rt, and Monks at times had really OP dps builds. And there were no tanks whatsoever. So (again) these "holy trinity roots" you keep mentioning never existed in GW franchise.

1 hour ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Guild Wars 2 will die without The Holy Trinity by making changes to Anet Philosophy with the removal of Stealth Mechanic and the death of Thief Profession.  Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic are the Greatest Adversity and Threat  threat to Guild Wars 2 stability, lore and its name. 

Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic  must be eradicated and erased...there are no excuses, exceptions to this,

And here you go again with your anti-thief crusade. How many years you are doing that again?

BTW: you are extremely inconsistent there. You keep claiming how you want Anet to protect profession identities while at the same time you attack the core of Thief profession identity and want it gone. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Now, you will probably be telling me how Thieves do not fit the "roots" (which you seem to think lie in Holy Trinity), while completely ignoring how Thieves are one of the core RPG professions, whose origin is actually older than the Holy Trinity itself.

My conclusion: if you dislike Thief profession, say so, and tell us the real reasons why it is so (if you can), instead of trying to find some pseudophilosophical excuses for that.

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You have never seen a Holy Trinity game, is my guess? Because as far as power creep is concerned, GW2 is still very weak sauce compared to others...

No, it was not Holy Trinity that kept GW profession roles and identity in line. Case in point: the best healers of GW1 were N/Rt, and Monks at times had really OP dps builds. And there were no tanks whatsoever. So (again) these "holy trinity roots" you keep mentioning never existed in GW franchise.

And here you go again with your anti-thief crusade. How many years you are doing that again?

BTW: you are extremely inconsistent there. You keep claiming how you want Anet to protect profession identities while at the same time you attack the core of Thief profession identity and want it gone. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Now, you will probably be telling me how Thieves do not fit the "roots" (which you seem to think lie in Holy Trinity), while completely ignoring how Thieves are one of the core RPG professions, whose origin is actually older than the Holy Trinity itself.

My conclusion: if you dislike Thief profession, say so, and tell us the real reasons why it is so (if you can), instead of trying to find some pseudophilosophical excuses for that.

 

 

"It seems a lot of former GW1 players have a bad experience with the trinity because there was only one healer class, the monk, I am right ? I didn't played GW1 but if this was the case, trinity was very poorly impleted. Like today in GW2 with the druid ..."

""That's not exactly true.. but monks definitely had some pretty terrible dps options. There were and still are many healing builds with various classes thanks to secondary professions. Necro has good energy management when enemies die and can use ritualist healing build effectively while also summoning cannon fodder or cursing, Ele can use monk prots while having the highest energy in the game so skills that normally can't be spammed can be, etc.

I had no problem with the trinity in GW, it was still very unique compared to other MMOs including GW2. 1 major difference is your character and NPCs were 'physical' bodies meaning you could body block people / mobs and they scattered when you cast an aoe on them , they were no where near the size or as common as in GW2 so placement was very important.

Monk were king in prophecies and in pvp though while easily being the most difficult and engaging role in pvp.""

 

"honestly its why the game Gw2 struggles imo... trying to be too different which worked out at first, but the constant band-aiding of professions with a new profession that has nothing to do with their core, making everyone equal to do dmg, etc. If there was a trinity I feel like maybe class balance wouldnt take as long, but then again.. who knows....."

Edited September 24, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 9/14/2023 at 5:47 PM, MuscleBobBuffPants.1406 said:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-july-2021/ 

"Alliances When?

This year."

"In the past, development priorities shifted away from WvW, and unfortunately both World Restructuring and our players suffered as a result. Our new leadership team views WvW as a cornerstone mode of Guild Wars 2, and it will be a focus of ours going forward."

I'll b happy to see EoTM give xp again to have a form of validity. It's dead right now

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

 

"It seems a lot of former GW1 players have a bad experience with the trinity because there was only one healer class, the monk, I am right ? I didn't played GW1 but if this was the case, trinity was very poorly impleted. Like today in GW2 with the druid ..."

""That's not exactly true.. but monks definitely had some pretty terrible dps options. There were and still are many healing builds with various classes thanks to secondary professions. Necro has good energy management when enemies die and can use ritualist healing build effectively while also summoning cannon fodder or cursing, Ele can use monk prots while having the highest energy in the game so skills that normally can't be spammed can be, etc.

I had no problem with the trinity in GW, it was still very unique compared to other MMOs including GW2. 1 major difference is your character and NPCs were 'physical' bodies meaning you could body block people / mobs and they scattered when you cast an aoe on them , they were no where near the size or as common as in GW2 so placement was very important.

Monk were king in prophecies and in pvp though while easily being the most difficult and engaging role in pvp.""

 

"honestly its why the game Gw2 struggles imo... trying to be too different which worked out at first, but the constant band-aiding of professions with a new profession that has nothing to do with their core, making everyone equal to do dmg, etc. If there was a trinity I feel like maybe class balance wouldnt take as long, but then again.. who knows....."

Nice of you to prove my point: The Holy Trinity you ask for never existed in GW franchise. Notice, btw, how the first thread you linkied is about how introducing dedicated roles destroyed GW2 combat design. That thread is as anti-Holy Trinity as it can get.