Builds/specs with plainly unfun mechanics

[Terrorhuz.4695]

11 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

If I get mislead from a necro/mesmer off a ledge etc, fair play, thats skilled deception. However, it is stupendously easy to target drop+clone spam with 1 button, which is not skilled deception.. and, it becomes obvious fast to more experianced players who the real mesmer is. So its basically just a target drop.. and with the clone spam, retargeting can be difficult becuase of clones being in the way of the real mesmer to click back on him. Scanning for the real mesmer is not hard, but it takes time (some say chrono has high dmg, so time matters).. and then to retarget is just a pain, and the mesmer achieves all of that with minimal effort. Deception, lol.

Just so we're clear, how many target breaks do you think mesmer has?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Honestly only class I mechanically dislike design wise in gw2 is mesmer, cool idea outside of the game, in game is pure toxic design, worse than thief. The amount of time the they can be invulnerable needs shaved and so does their clone spam. Buff other areas to compensate so they remain viable but less toxic of a design.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Just so we're clear, how many target breaks do you think mesmer has?

When I play chrono, I have access to upto 4 target drops, or 3 target drops and a stun, which works very well ontop of defensive positioning, TP, slow, daze, wave and invuln. Its not my fault people just copy paste meta builds.

[Flowki.7194]

Its went off topic anyway.. unfun specs to fight, pretty much 90% of ranked now.

 

Warriors, necros, bunker mesmers, unkillable thief.. all the low risk/low effort degenerate scraps, left over of a game where all the complicated and high effort/skill specs have been systematically nerfed into the ground -gw2

[Curennos.9307]

Mirage - I think being able to attack while invuln or having attacks proc from invuln shouldn't be a thing. Vind to a lesser extent, since there's a built in vuln window right after their dodge and they actually have to move around to try to land the circle if they use the damage one (and the other dodges have been nerfed into oblivion). At the very least I think mirage shouldn't be able to use the dodge while CC'd, kinda defeats the point, but eh. It's been nerfed and brutalized just like every other class in this game.

Mechanist - to play as. They used to be OP, now they're gutted and the mech is basically 3 utility skills and a DoT that can die, since you can't really send it anywhere otherwise the skills get increased CD. It feels bad and weak. It also dies so much more easily than it did, like a ranger pet but without everything ranger has to keep the pet alive, but somehow the mech requires an entire trait line to give skills to and nothing else.

Really long range overloaded teleports that don't require LoS - Steal, Shiro rev (it's absurd that a single skill can be a 1200 range teleport, give quickness, unblockable, and do a half-decent chunk of damage). Rev sword 5 IMO is more acceptable since it's shorter range. Mes blink is also fine IMO, since it's not player-targeted and I don't think it can go through a wall cause..no enemy target. It also isn't overloaded - it's just a teleport and a stunbreak. I enjoy thief but I don't like how they've become basically Steal: The Class, which causes issues in pve sometimes and in PVP means we're stuck with trickery. Please...it's been so long...let me run anything other than trickery, I'm on my knees begging.

Condi thief with lots of stealth - which is basically most condi thieves, but I've seen some that are more interesting to fight. I don't enjoy fighting the ones that are condi and take bound + a ton of stealth utilities. I don't begrudge folks 1-2 stealth utilities and whatnot, but when it reaches black powder bound + hide in shadow + blinding powder then it just becomes boring. I spend more time waiting for them to come out of stealth than actually exchanging strikes.

Infiltrator's Strike - I've spammed my way through pvp matches with quickness DE pistol whip and I still think this skill is ridiculous. It's easy to place in a good spot and if you do it right (which isn't hard) any class without its own targeted teleport is just completely unable to chase you. I don't want to see it deleted, but I think it definitely needs a shortened initial range (make the return range larger so the thief can kite more while fighting).

Burst from stealth- idk why anet hasn't given everything the Binding Shadows/DE treatment.

Ranger longbow - its ridiculous range is the only outlier of its kind in the entire game and really should be trimmed down to 1200 range like everyone else. Fix the arcing giving extra range, too.

High impact low-animation/tell skills. Looking at you, spinal shivers. Ranger longbow 4 that looks like every other arrow. And a whole bunch of other skills.

Quickness in PVP - shouldn't except in PVP IMO. Just bad and unhealthy for the game mode. Specs that have it crutch on it and suffer in design and balance because of it, specs that don't have it have to deal with classes that do and skills that normally wouldn't be an issue, but become ridiculous when sped up that much.

 

 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

17 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

When I play chrono, I have access to upto 4 target drops, or 3 target drops and a stun, which works very well ontop of defensive positioning, TP, slow, daze, wave and invuln. Its not my fault people just copy paste meta builds.

I don't own SotO, as far as I'm concerned I have mirror images and that's it.
As the clones are created right on top of you, the value from the detarget is pretty much 0; opponents will just carpet bomb the 3 targets and kill them all. Mirror images isn't valuable for the detarget, mirror images is valuable to give instant shatter fodder in CS.

[dead.7638]

For a long time I struggled vs warrior class.   I didn’t understand many of the skills.   So I asked warrior mains for duels.   Over time I became more accustom to fighting them, I learned the skills I needed to watch out for.   And now I can fight them with confidence and win some very prolonged fights.   Food for thought.

Edited September 22, 2023 by dead.7638

[Flowki.7194]

11 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I don't own SotO, as far as I'm concerned I have mirror images and that's it.
As the clones are created right on top of you, the value from the detarget is pretty much 0; opponents will just carpet bomb the 3 targets and kill them all. Mirror images isn't valuable for the detarget, mirror images is valuable to give instant shatter fodder in CS.

You only need torch, split, mirror and mass stealth, which gives you upto 4 target drops, which is what you asked, not clone generation. Realistically for me I typically use 1 mirror during split burst, so I only have 3 target drops. But thats my personal preference.

 

Target drops are not just about being used when somebody is right ontop of you. I use the likes of stealth/imige all the time from range when its very clear a player/s are starting to charge the back line to get me. This stops a lot of ranged abiltys being used, or the likes of herald/vindi/will TP, which then gives you more time to pick a good spot and TP back to range, or to setup for clones for invuln>mass stealth, or what ever is required. 

 

Say what ever you want but I know how mesmer works in that way, yet the amount of times on another spec I have went to use an ability only to see I have no target is quite often on mesmers. You act like people just stare at the target screen, and never look down to check cds, or to look around at what other players are doing. Target drops are no meningless at all. Its also very noticable when im on chrono and use mirror in the middle of the chaos, it takes people a moment, you get like a second or 2 in ''the void'' where you take no direct damage (obviosuly random aoe aside), its very noticable compared to when I play specs that dont have a target drop.

 

Btw, at least in the rank elo I am at most chronos are way too aggressive, they have very little concept of defensive positioning and rush into group fights, and even blow their invuln/TP chasing kills. Its no suprise they lose all their clones to random aoe, becuase they position way too close to it.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Bast.7253]

I think this game has needed diminishing returns for years. 

How do you balance a game when 70% of the fights are carried by cc spam?

Oh right - throw some more boons on random abilities, reduce some damage coefficients by 0.0001% and turn a blind eye.

[Sovarica.4368]

Scrapper doesn't bother me in a duel but it does bother me how fast my teammates get bursted by it probably the biggest G1 killer in the game

Willbender has a huge range of damage with it covering the whole capture point with the swirl damage and it's too in your face and it bursts too easily

Mesmer's in general have too much of the same play style of just attacking you from a distance and coming in for the kill, it's very hard to get a good rhythm of dueling going against a Mesmer with it's too many options to get out of tough situations and too many options to counter you would be nice if they exchanged a bit of distortion with a bit of aegis on the last second

Condizerker is too strong right now can pretty much carry a game and make a team turn against itself with toxicness

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:34 PM, bethekey.8314 said:

IMO, this isn't the same as what's OP. Untamed is OP, but I don't see it have glaringly toxic mechanics.

 

On 9/17/2023 at 4:08 AM, bethekey.8314 said:

 I'm surprised someone struggles against Core Engi Untamed so much!

FTFY

[Zekent.3652]

16 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

For a long time I struggled vs warrior class.   I didn’t understand many of the skills.   So I asked warrior mains for duels.   Over time I became more accustom to fighting them, I learned the skills I needed to watch out for.   And now I can fight them with confidence and win some very prolonged fights.   Food for thought.

Isn't warrior just the most straight up class on their animations? Like no weird flashy AoE ranged bomb or "summons" cast, no stealth, weird green clouds, clones, teleports (if we ignore bladesworn in this case which is also a really small range and conditioned skill), no pets helping them to CC while youre focused on seeing warr's telegraphed animations, etc.

I think that the only "confusing" warrior skills are just dagger 2 and dagger F1, these 2 are not the same but still pretty similar.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Zizekent.2398

[Burnfall.9573]

Although this is a dual Thief Profession vs Thief Profession. After watching their Great Performance, I have to the realization that Anet should create a server only for Thief Professions to play in. Transfer all Thief Profession players to that server and leave them there to fight each other including creating a WvW and a PvP game mode, only for them.

-With the complete removal of Stealth Mechanic in the base WvW and PvP game mode for the remaining Community server-

I think that would be a great idea, fair and less Headache/Toxicity to the remaining Professions including The Community who desires a fair competitive experience. 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Flowki.7194]

5 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Isn't warrior just the most straight up class on their animations? Like no weird flashy AoE ranged bomb or "summons" cast, no stealth, weird green clouds, clones, teleports (if we ignore bladesworn in this case which is also a really small range and conditioned skill), no pets helping them to CC while youre focused on seeing warr's telegraphed animations, etc.

I think that the only "confusing" warrior skills are just dagger 2 and dagger F1, these 2 are not the same but still pretty similar.

I always see warrior making such arguments and its highly dismissive and lame AF.

 

Firslty, warrior is not the only spec with telegraphed abilitys, they act like everybody else has ranger LB4 in comparison..

 

Secondly, and most importantly, broadcasted abilitys does not mean much, when you have more abilitys OR on a lower CD than dodges/mitigation. In other words, you can see the 4th stun/dmg abilitys comming and theirs nothing you can do about it. SPB specifically is like this; stun spam. And please stop with the ''just kite'' we all know if its that simple to counter spb nobody would be playing it.. yet its still a highly represented spec in sPVP, and their is always SPB's dueling in arena. Next you can say ''well they just play it becuase its fun, even thoug hits ineffective'', which isnt true. Plenty of people play ranger, but nobody is playing renegade, and we all know why.. that spec is truly ineffective, unlike SPB.

 

Lastly, many sPVP encounters are not 1v1. Tying into the above, the game is EXTREMELY spammy in high dmg single shot abilitys, and stuns/cc. It is litterally to the point where I can see what all 3 dps are throwing at me but their is simply not enough dodges to survive past 3 seconds. Immune, los abuse or die. Telegraphed abilitys mean very little in reality, its such a copout argument.

 

And for the record telegraphed abilitys is not the be all end all, in a way its kind of casual to expect everything to be telegraphed. When scepter power ele was good, most of it wasnt very telegraphed, but you got to feel when burst was comming, which raised the skillfloor of the game IMO, just like timing dodge after a stealth drop. None telegraphed is only not fine when it is doing rediculous 1 shot dmg, or is setting you up for rediculous dmg, like DH.. but I personally wouldnt have such bs in the game to begin with. Again, what good is a telegraphed 1 shot ability if its comming at a time you have no dodges/mitigation left.. and do you deserve to die becuase of that? should you tank all other damage and save mitigaion just for 1 shots?, as if all other damage is meaningless. The games kinde asking that question of people now, and it shouldnt be, its not skill.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Marckan.9526]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:43 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Just so we're clear, how many target breaks do you think mesmer has?

According to the wiki (at the very bottom of the Combat-section) all mesmers with weaponmaster now has access to 2 skills that break targeting as a specific parameter, while Mirage has 3. This is excluding all stealth-skills which also break targeting.

 

I'm only posting facts in regards to your discussion, not trying to take any side in it :)

[Terrorhuz.4695]

6 hours ago, Marckan.9526 said:

According to the wiki (at the very bottom of the Combat-section) all mesmers with weaponmaster now has access to 2 skills that break targeting as a specific parameter, while Mirage has 3. This is excluding all stealth-skills which also break targeting.

 

I'm only posting facts in regards to your discussion, not trying to take any side in it 🙂

Breaking target is not stealth tho. You can still follow up the mesmer and keep on attacking, while the mesmer won't be able to use the target break to disengage. If you were complaining about mesmer having excessive stealth I could second that (maybe disagree, but I could see the point); target break itself is a very unique mechanic tho.

[shakey.4381]

Distortion is max 4s with clones. If you jump on top of anything/LoS, clones won't pursue you. If you can avoid half of the burst and have stun break/sustain, you're golden. Not saying mesmers aren't an issue in some cases. But at least play the class before you hate the class. You'll understand more on how to counter.

[Marckan.9526]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Breaking target is not stealth tho. You can still follow up the mesmer and keep on attacking, while the mesmer won't be able to use the target break to disengage. If you were complaining about mesmer having excessive stealth I could second that (maybe disagree, but I could see the point); target break itself is a very unique mechanic tho.

I dont think you read my post correctly? Please read it again.

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Breaking target is not stealth tho. You can still follow up the mesmer and keep on attacking, while the mesmer won't be able to use the target break to disengage. If you were complaining about mesmer having excessive stealth I could second that (maybe disagree, but I could see the point); target break itself is a very unique mechanic tho.

Really just splitting hairs though, a target drop is a target drop.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

7 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Really just splitting hairs though, a target drop is a target drop.

And me using a target drop and still end up getting killed after because there's no disengage is still me going back to spawn.

[Flowki.7194]

8 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

And me using a target drop and still end up getting killed after because there's no disengage is still me going back to spawn.

Yeah they should give chrono 1200unit nuke, thief mobility and bladesworn sustain.

 

Chrono disengage relitive to its nuke dmg is actually good, you should die if under prolonged chase, you have to have a downside for being a 1200unit nuke spec, but you have multiple mitigation options (nuke is one of them) and a TP. Not many specs can turn on a dime and delete 80% of a HP pool in udner 2 seconds, which can force the player to retreat/immune, giving you breathing room. Try hammer cata when the enemy has a decent LB ranger or chrono, youll see what I mean about heavy ranged spec dmg needing real close range weaknesses. There are a few specs (like thief, zerker and even willbender) that have way too much dmg for the mobility or sustain, to the point mobility is a crutch for such specs, a get out of jail card where most other specs should and do die for dumb plays. Willbender and warrior are quite annoying in that way, since weaving in 0 0 0 0 0 or block block block are such low effort gap fillers in mobility cd.

 

As far as other mesmer specs go, mirage and virt are practically afk mode again, easy sustain, you dont even need to disengage, just kill enemy with boredom.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Burnfall.9573]

173-504

Bad Design Has Successfully Taken Full Control Of PvP/WvW and turned them into TRASH Game modes.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Zekent.3652]

-Nades scrapper: too much super speed, high burst out of stealth, big barriers.

-SA thieves: this game stealth mechanic is dumb, even more with a class that has a traitline that abuses it.

-Any class with projectile hate, there's way too much projectile hate in the game already, could say the same with blinds.

-Cata, way too much AoE pressure.

-Hammer warrior, relying on CC to land damage is no bueno.

-Bladesworn, dumb sustain and redundant spec for warrior, it's just another bruiser with a MELEE pistol...

-Anything with condi bomb or AoE spam, i don't care whatever they say, it's just low effort gameplay.

-Invul/Block/Immune spam.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Zizekent.2398

[Saiyan.1704]

Anything that does damage while also invulnerable/perma evade/etc. Fighting a virtuoso or hammer cata is very unfun.

Shoot, stealth, shoot, stealth... DE needs to be reworked heavily. They're not even meta but everyone still wants them deleted from pvp. Like inflamed herpes. It's under control right now but I still feel miserable.

[Irrational.2871]

core thief/daredevil probably evereyone noticed that invisability pretty broken in this game cuz there is no tools to counter it. Ranger for example have skill that doesnt allow to go invis but the thing is thief could just run away and others dont even have that. Damage dealt to thiefs in invis doesnt reveal them so even if they on low hp they can decide to keep fighting you or run away and the only counter play left for you is to predict their next action but if you can farsee into the future then you wont have problems with any game you know. But that wont be such a problem if not thief's damage like random crit from invis dealt 8k to dolyak rune + marauder amulet is a cringe no more no less. In theory some specs can destory them but it doesnt mean that other specs should be pestered by the thieves
chrono stun break immortality + their elite
cata have both damage and def and a lot of utility altough you need time to learn how to play ele but its difficulty overcompensated
stunlock warriors  i dont mind somtimes to lay on the gorund for dunno 15 seconds? the problem is that spell that allow them to not recive power damage if that thing would be nerfed in terms of duration or cd or even both i wont have any problems with them.
vindicator jumps way too much and i cant understand when he landed yet  so either i wait for extra seconds to be sure he walking or missing some spells on air dodge. Also if they use staff they can jump with staff skills few more times before cd on dodge is up.
cringebenders is like what if theif and guardian had sex they would gave birth to willbender its a tank with thief's damage and mobility for no reason

Edited September 25, 2023 by Irrational.2871
forgot about cringebender