Increase long range AoE pull cooldowns

[XenesisII.1540]

The only way a mesmer or necro is pulling you off a wall with boon strips first is if you're standing in front of the wall to eat up their strip aoes. Otherwise they're raw pulling you because you didn't do the half dozen things to prevent it from happening in the first place. If you're in a group getting pulled, where is your stability from the group? or are you pretend running with a group and expecting to somehow get protected from cc's just cause you're next to the group?

What's the point of increasing cooldowns if the player is dumb enough to get pulled on the first pull? Do players have goldfish memories and can't figure out from the very first time they or someone else gets pulled to use some caution in that same situation the next time? Do they really need the extra 30s as a reminder "each and every time" after the first pull?

Stop being a baddie, stop standing on walls by yourself trying to land your lonesome aoe on a group of 30 below to get your tags in, you wouldn't stand in front of them in the open field trying to aoe in their faces by yourself, so why would you try it from above on a wall? Walls are not there to give you absolute protection, there are there to keep the bad people out, the sooner you accept this, the better off you will be in avoiding getting in bad situations.

This is entirely a l2p issue with the player.

Two confused people who don't know why they get pulled off walls -->

Edited October 10, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

What's the point of increasing cooldowns if the player is dumb enough to get pulled on the first pull? Do players have goldfish memories and can't figure out from the very first time they or someone else gets pulled to use some caution in that same situation the next time? Do they really need the extra 30s as a reminder "each and every time" after the first pull?

Well, that's a rhetorical question, but probably.

Also this has a really short cooldown too:

  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge

However, complaining on the forums has the shortest cooldown.

Anyhow:

* Yes, most pulls can go up to 1200 range but it is interesting how temporal curtain got brought up despite being 600 now. Of course, it doesn't seem like people realize that most skills take time to travel, that is skills are faster to hit someone closer. The typical range where you get pulled is actually around 900 since at 1200 there is some reaction time and you can also do things like dodge back beyond 1200 range. I have some serious doubts if people know what 1200 range is.

* Well, that brings up your own arsenal. If you don't have a group vs a zerg and you don't have 1200+ ranged attacks that aren't projectiles, then congrats. Either you're brave enough to dive into a zerg (eg some warriors or holos) and out, or you're really not doing anything. And either way, you have no place being on a wall. All classes but thief have options to harass a zerg at long range without shooting themselves to death except thief who must resort to either support or some really funky high risk stuff.

* If you are on the wall, you have 3 purposes: Disable siege, leave lingerng aoes such as Sword of Justice or wells or meteor to destroy siege and siege operators, and burst the tail as groups pass by. None of these things require you to stay anywhere near the wall for more than a few seconds at the time. All these roles require stab, stealth,  or at least some kind of damage mitigation. And I said burst the tail. If you are facing the entire zerg when on the wall, you are doing it wrong. What if you down 1 or 3 of them?

* Yes, wall humping takes skill and a proper build. It is not some free pass to take your pve build into WvW. Accept that or get below the supply depot and accept you are a waste of queue space that is in no position to talk kitten about GoB farmers because at least the later will be gone eventually.

* If you are in an organized group and are kittening about pulls, then you are weak. Or at least your commander is weak. You probably engage in only a pirate ship style that only kills people that overextend and random pvers out to do their dailies. I mean this is fine. When you pugmand, that's just how you get your server together and your comp can't fight stronger groups directly. But when you graduate to boonball with guildies and homies, you need to aim a bit higher than that. Heck, we've had a few small scale boonballs videos lately; do you see them getting pulled vs so many players, even if that is selective footage?

* The reason why the other group pulls you easily when you are pirate ship style  is because you have no teeth. You don't punish them for getting near you, and you certainly don't pull them either. Even if they should pull or down your people, your group should be launching all damage at that location so they don't die in vain. But no, tickling them with marks is all you'll do.

* Stop backpedaling and learn to turn your character around quickly. While acceptable for fine repositoning and getting enemies to walk into your PBAOEs, remember you get NO bonus from swiftness or superspeed. It's a very easy way to get overrun.

* The biggest mystery is why is being pulled instant death? Stunbreaks, invuls, blinks? A lot of times even weapon swapping into cleanse/energy sigils help.  What, you think that force sigil is going to save you? You do zdps anyways and 5% of 0 also happens to be 0. I mean yea, sometimes I'm posting on the forums and get pulled. Kitten happens.

* just because you are in a zerg does not mean you get to turn off your brain. Stop relying exclusively on your commander and Discord to be your eyes and ears. You can pan the camera around your character using "Free camera" once in a while. Somehow I believe a lot of people do not even look behind themselves, ever.

* I was going to bring this up in the arcdps thread, but honestly checking it is sometimes necessary for self improvement. You may feel your stab uptime is great but the thing may tell you otherwise. While there are many variables involved in every fight, anecdotally speaking you're probably looking at 60-70% uptime on Stab on your party, and someone higher on yourself, even considering boonstrips. Should aim higher, of course though naturally sometimes people just run off or you get cut off.

* It isn't that trivial, because stab does not stack in duration but intensity. 1 stack of stab doesn't last very long, so you actually need to time the big stab skills, while using the smaller stab for more trivial occasions, like if your group makes contact but doesn't commit.

* If you trust your guardian enough, and are supplementary stab, do not use it right away for these reasons in order to not overstack stab. You should at least wait around a few seconds for the inevitable lapse/boonstrip and then use it. Don't just spam it away. For example, overloading earth  on tempest mid fight is great. Overloading it at the very start is saying to your guard "I don't trust you"

* It is fine if your support/guardian actually sucks to fill in the gaps, to make your own decisions in the matter. After all, at the end of the day, it is your responsibility to keep your toon  as effective as possible. Mesmers, for example, can almost replace any support role if needed, though not exactly very pleasant.

* You don't have to read this at all, and you are free to think I'm full of kitten and a kittener. And in some instances you're probably right. But the price of heavy loot bags is increasing , so I don't care if you learn or not.. And  let's admit it, believing ANet will improve the game for you in a timely manner  is probably the most noob thing you can do.

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[allshallperish.4620]

L2P Smile

[Riba.3271]

Guys, you're just focusing on weirdest specific stuff.
It doesn't matter if it is a melee fight, wall fight or ranged fight, short or long fight, pulls are the strongest CC abilities you can bring as they are. And they're also on the lowest cooldown outside warrior hammer spam that occurs on melee. Now I get that people here are fearful their main class will get nerfed but compensation buffs were also brought up in the thread so fear not.

This isn't a personal issue, I have played this game long enough to know and avoid all the cheese, but it is still annoying the game revolves around pulls so much when teammates are involved. Of course pulling isn't super easy for most players as daily there are squads with 10 pull classes, with no one skillful enough to pull anyone to the tag for free kills. But once you reach or face certain understanding of boons with experience to back it up, it just overpowers anything else in close fights.

I get some of you guys don't think pulls are overpowered in group fights and are blaming L2P problems from me, but that just means you're not at the level where you can succesfull pull off pulls consistantly.. And there is nothing with it, you will get good eventually. Or you need to be stop being super defensive about your class getting shift in power.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

pulls are the strongest CC abilities you can bring as they are.

Stability is the strongest boon you can bring, so all aoe stab should have its cd doubled in order to match your suggested cc nerfs, right?

2 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

 And they're also on the lowest cooldown

Not true, there are many cc abilities with less than 25s cd. If we rank cc effects by average cd, pulls are most likely on the side with longer cds.

Players are supposed to die in PvP combat. No need to nerf everything that enables kills to the ground (and no i'm not playing a "pull" class and sometimes i die to pulls, but that's fine).

Edited October 9, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Zepoolpe.9217]

I don't understand why? I'm loving it!🤔

[Justine.6351]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Players are supposed to die in PvP combat.

Other* players are supposed to die in PvP combat. 🙃

[Burnfall.9573]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:20 PM, Riba.3271 said:

Scorpion wire isn't AoE pull.

I don't really get your point.

 

why make an exception and ignore the Elephant in the room? 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 10/7/2023 at 8:03 PM, Chaba.5410 said:

What is this, bro?

https://ibb.co/nMwTjSZ

You are using the forum in dark mode and this person has copy/pasted text directly from the wiki. Which if you don't paste it as plain text or reformat it will become stripy white nonsense to any of us giga chad dark mode users.

If you want to read it, you need to highlight the text.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

nah just make them more visible. nothing worse then getting pulled from an animation you can't see

[XenesisII.1540]

18 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Guys, you're just focusing on weirdest specific stuff.
It doesn't matter if it is a melee fight, wall fight or ranged fight, short or long fight, pulls are the strongest CC abilities you can bring as they are. And they're also on the lowest cooldown outside warrior hammer spam that occurs on melee. Now I get that people here are fearful their main class will get nerfed but compensation buffs were also brought up in the thread so fear not.

This isn't a personal issue, I have played this game long enough to know and avoid all the cheese, but it is still annoying the game revolves around pulls so much when teammates are involved. Of course pulling isn't super easy for most players as daily there are squads with 10 pull classes, with no one skillful enough to pull anyone to the tag for free kills. But once you reach or face certain understanding of boons with experience to back it up, it just overpowers anything else in close fights.

I get some of you guys don't think pulls are overpowered in group fights and are blaming L2P problems from me, but that just means you're not at the level where you can succesfull pull off pulls consistantly.. And there is nothing with it, you will get good eventually. Or you need to be stop being super defensive about your class getting shift in power.

Right right sure sure.

If it's not a l2p issue for you but for your teammates, then maybe you should be teaching them in game? Or maybe they'll eventually play long enough to avoid the cheese like you did so just let nature take it's course?

Nice deflection in the end there, you guys arguing aren't enough with pulls so stop being so defensive about pulls, while my teammates continue to be terribad at using their own actual defenses. 🙄🤭

One confused player who don't know why they get pulled off walls -->

Edited October 10, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[MedievalThings.5417]

Why does scorpion wire have 2 charges?

[Caffynated.5713]

7 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Guys, you're just focusing on weirdest specific stuff.
It doesn't matter if it is a melee fight, wall fight or ranged fight, short or long fight, pulls are the strongest CC abilities you can bring as they are. And they're also on the lowest cooldown outside warrior hammer spam that occurs on melee. Now I get that people here are fearful their main class will get nerfed but compensation buffs were also brought up in the thread so fear not.

This isn't a personal issue, I have played this game long enough to know and avoid all the cheese, but it is still annoying the game revolves around pulls so much when teammates are involved. Of course pulling isn't super easy for most players as daily there are squads with 10 pull classes, with no one skillful enough to pull anyone to the tag for free kills. But once you reach or face certain understanding of boons with experience to back it up, it just overpowers anything else in close fights.

I get some of you guys don't think pulls are overpowered in group fights and are blaming L2P problems from me, but that just means you're not at the level where you can succesfull pull off pulls consistantly.. And there is nothing with it, you will get good eventually. Or you need to be stop being super defensive about your class getting shift in power.

Trash players are always going to defend the overpowered abilities that make them able to compete with competent players. 

There is nothing easier in GW2 than standing in a boonball ignoring damage, CCs and positioning, but these clowns pretend it's the height of skill. There is no convincing trash that they're bad as shown by the Dunning-Kruger effect. The worse they are, the more confident they are that they're actually really skilled. Their idea of the pinnacle of gameplay is W keying around behind a commander tag chasing people in circles. 

If ANet nerfed stab and pulls these people would be walking Heavy Loot Bags because they lack agency and can't react to anything that's going on. That their idea of "L2P" is "stand in a boonball with 50 other subhumans" tells you everything you need to know. 

[XenesisII.1540]

10 hours ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

Trash players are always going to defend the overpowered abilities that make them able to compete with competent players. 

There is nothing easier in GW2 than standing in a boonball ignoring damage, CCs and positioning, but these clowns pretend it's the height of skill. There is no convincing trash that they're bad as shown by the Dunning-Kruger effect. The worse they are, the more confident they are that they're actually really skilled. Their idea of the pinnacle of gameplay is W keying around behind a commander tag chasing people in circles. 

If ANet nerfed stab and pulls these people would be walking Heavy Loot Bags because they lack agency and can't react to anything that's going on. That their idea of "L2P" is "stand in a boonball with 50 other subhumans" tells you everything you need to know. 

/wipes eyebrow Woowee for a moment I thought you would be directing that to me, but then I don't boon ball, I just solo pull baddies off walls. So all good, carry on. 🤭

Oh and don't only throw stones at the afk booners, while ignoring/excusing the victims of pulls still need to l2p by not standing in pull range or use the many different defense tools available to them, no group is required, just mostly common sense, that's my idea of "l2p". 🤷‍♂️

One confused player who don't know why they get pulled off walls -->

Edited October 10, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[manu.7539]

Never used pulls, must be fun. Always been pulled, not fun.

Just too unfair and we all know anet dont care 😕

[ArchonWing.9480]

10 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Guys, you're just focusing on weirdest specific stuff.
It doesn't matter if it is a melee fight, wall fight or ranged fight, short or long fight, pulls are the strongest CC abilities you can bring as they are. And they're also on the lowest cooldown outside warrior hammer spam that occurs on melee. Now I get that people here are fearful their main class will get nerfed but compensation buffs were also brought up in the thread so fear not.

This isn't a personal issue, I have played this game long enough to know and avoid all the cheese, but it is still annoying the game revolves around pulls so much when teammates are involved. Of course pulling isn't super easy for most players as daily there are squads with 10 pull classes, with no one skillful enough to pull anyone to the tag for free kills. But once you reach or face certain understanding of boons with experience to back it up, it just overpowers anything else in close fights.

I get some of you guys don't think pulls are overpowered in group fights and are blaming L2P problems from me, but that just means you're not at the level where you can succesfull pull off pulls consistantly.. And there is nothing with it, you will get good eventually. Or you need to be stop being super defensive about your class getting shift in power.

You mentioned that some players defend pulls because they fear nerfs to their main class but don't have the skill to use pulls effectively. That's a bit contradictory, don't you think? If someone can't use pulls well, why would they advocate for them to protect their class? The motivation should be based on the perceived balance and utility of pulls, not just fear of nerfs.

2 hours ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

Trash players are always going to defend the overpowered abilities that make them able to compete with competent players. 

There is nothing easier in GW2 than standing in a boonball ignoring damage, CCs and positioning, but these clowns pretend it's the height of skill. There is no convincing trash that they're bad as shown by the Dunning-Kruger effect. The worse they are, the more confident they are that they're actually really skilled. Their idea of the pinnacle of gameplay is W keying around behind a commander tag chasing people in circles. 

If ANet nerfed stab and pulls these people would be walking Heavy Loot Bags because they lack agency and can't react to anything that's going on. That their idea of "L2P" is "stand in a boonball with 50 other subhumans" tells you everything you need to know. 

The Dunning-Kruger effect is where people overestimate their own abilities. Frequently using a claim of something overpowered being an excuse is a common method. They call other players trash because they can't find any other way to hurt them in game.

The thing is, I actually do agree that most people here including myself do greatly exagerrate their own skill. The only difference is that some spend much more effort defending why they are floor pov all the time and this is true no matter how many internet arguments you win.

The way I see it, I do think this game in terms of competitive skill is a joke and it doesn't take much skill to win. They just have to be less bad than others.

I'll give you a hint. Whether or not you can beat or kill any other player(s) has no bearing on your relative skill. Stop putting so much weight on it lol.

Edited October 9, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Riba.3271]

11 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

10 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Guys, you're just focusing on weirdest specific stuff.
It doesn't matter if it is a melee fight, wall fight or ranged fight, short or long fight, pulls are the strongest CC abilities you can bring as they are. And they're also on the lowest cooldown outside warrior hammer spam that occurs on melee. Now I get that people here are fearful their main class will get nerfed but compensation buffs were also brought up in the thread so fear not.

This isn't a personal issue, I have played this game long enough to know and avoid all the cheese, but it is still annoying the game revolves around pulls so much when teammates are involved. Of course pulling isn't super easy for most players as daily there are squads with 10 pull classes, with no one skillful enough to pull anyone to the tag for free kills. But once you reach or face certain understanding of boons with experience to back it up, it just overpowers anything else in close fights.

I get some of you guys don't think pulls are overpowered in group fights and are blaming L2P problems from me, but that just means you're not at the level where you can succesfull pull off pulls consistantly.. And there is nothing with it, you will get good eventually. Or you need to be stop being super defensive about your class getting shift in power.

Expand  

You mentioned that some players defend pulls because they fear nerfs to their main class but don't have the skill to use pulls effectively. That's a bit contradictory, don't you think? If someone can't use pulls well, why would they advocate for them to protect their class? The motivation should be based on the perceived balance and utility of pulls, not just fear of nerfs.

Those are separate people as the word "or" indicates. Some defend pulls because they aren't yet at level to succeed at them and others because their whole playstyle is revolving around it and they have 0 cares about balance or others enjoyment. I just can't tell which group is larger. There will always be youtube montage pull spamming players that are worried about their viewcount so some opposition to make the game better is natural.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Riba.3271

[ArchonWing.9480]

Just now, Riba.3271 said:

Those are separate people as the word "or" indicates. Some defend pulls because they aren't yet at level to succeed at them and others because their whole playstyle is revolving around it. I just can't tell which group is larger.

Yea, but someone that doesn't use pulls effectively means they benefit from having them nerfed and has little reason to argue for them. That is a very strange statement to put in regardless.

[Riba.3271]

4 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

9 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Those are separate people as the word "or" indicates. Some defend pulls because they aren't yet at level to succeed at them and others because their whole playstyle is revolving around it. I just can't tell which group is larger.

Yea, but someone that doesn't use pulls effectively means they benefit from having them nerfed and has little reason to argue for them. That is a very strange statement to put in regardless.

But they will also have flawed perception of how strong things are when properly utilized. Ask PvE player that hasn't ever played WvW, how important stability is in WvW, and they will give false answer.

Ask the worst WvW player how to survive in GW2 largescale fights, and they will have no clue. Being bad or inexperienced at the gamemode, does lead to flawed perception and inability to have correct ideas about balance. You actually have to land your skills effectively to have clue about true balance.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Riba.3271

[ArchonWing.9480]

12 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

But they will also have flawed perception of how strong things are when properly utilized. Ask PvE player that hasn't ever played WvW, how important stability is in WvW, and they will give false answer.

Absolutely. Sometimes discussions get "mixed" when the game discussion is vague about the game mode and you get responses from players of all game modes. You  also have random pvpers complaining about WvW not being pvp.

I haven't seen any pip farmers from pve really commenting on this thread though.

12 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Ask the worst WvW player how to survive in GW2 largescale fights, and they will have no clue. Being bad or inexperienced at the gamemode, does lead to flawed perception and inability to have correct ideas about balance.

Well, that's the thing too. They don't, and they would think everything needs to be nerfed.

Granted, this also overlaps with legitimate complaints. It makes it hard to really group things together, I'd say.

Edited October 9, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Burnfall.9573]

45 minutes ago, manu.7539 said:

Never used pulls, must be fun. Always been pulled, not fun.

Just too unfair and we all know anet dont care 😕

 

Guild Wars (1) was about giving its players, the best Competitive, Enjoyable, Effective Learning Experience that they ever could dream off.

 

Guild Wars 2 is about giving its players, the best Circus Performance Show that they could ever dream off. It is filled with Circus Performers, combined with Perma-Gimmicks, Shocking Acrobatic skills and Spamming Aoe Magic everywhere. Filled with lightning Control Effects, that can pull, swing up all the way up in the air, jumping up in the air like a rabbit, teleport through objects like hackers, exploit?? LOL 

Laughable Bad Design Stealth Mechanic anywhere-anytime, on demand while being Immune and Invulnerable all at the same time.....

As for as. what you hope to gain from this Great Circus Performance Experience?

 

Spoiler

LOL

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Sleepwalker.1398]

2 hours ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Why does scorpion wire have 2 charges?

I don't know, but i love it. Probably after doing to Anet person, they might nerf it.

 

[XenesisII.1540]

Catering to the inexperienced is why we have boon spam.

Edited October 9, 2023 by XenesisII.1540

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 minute ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

I don't know, but i love it. Probably after doing to Anet person, they might nerf it.

 

I'm just shocked you can even land that skill at all. Btw what happens if you get reflected and aim it at someone above you?

Edited October 9, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

Have you seen some of the things people ask for to be removed or made easier in this game from PvE players in some of the other subforums here?  It tends to border on the absurd.  Players will always ask for stuff to be made easier.