Ranger in wvw

[Sansar.1302]

Ranger is so underpowered in wvw now 😞

[Beddo.1907]

I'd need you to elaborate on that.
Condi Roamer, Power Roamer, Zerg DPS, Zerg Healer, Zerg Strip? Why "now"? Why is it underpowered?
So many questions and only one sentence without a " . ".

[PrinceValentine.9320]

Healer Druid is meta when it comes to large scale fights in WvW. If there's one class that needs a buff in WvW, it's thief. that's the only class that is not viable for zerging. 

[psizone.8437]

2 hours ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

that's the only class that is not viable for zerging. 

Support spectre has been viable in zergs for quite a while. It gives great barrier amongst other things and it's pretty fun to play.

Guildjen even has it listed in their list of zerg builds.

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I'd need you to elaborate on that.
Condi Roamer, Power Roamer, Zerg DPS, Zerg Healer, Zerg Strip? Why "now"? Why is it underpowered?
So many questions and only one sentence without a " . ".

There is no effective range of roaming builds against celestial trollsand power builds are severely lacking dmg to fight again celestial builds which are sadly like 90%of "roaming" builds. Even on glass ranger, they will facetank dmg while ranger has little to no sustain when going glass. On top of that, ranger lack access to the most powerful condis and people will laugh at your bleed stacks

[psizone.8437]

6 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

On top of that, ranger lack access to the most powerful condis and people will laugh at your bleed stacks

As sure as I am that OP was talking about the OWP nerf, which hurt our damage a lot.

Our condi options in WvW are god awful compared to most other classes, so this being addressed would be nice.

[Zyreva.1078]

Cele druid and slb are great for roaming/small scale. And druid works fine as zerg support too.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[psizone.8437]

15 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Cele druid and slb are great for roaming/small scale

Nitpicking but I'd say they're good in roaming/small scale rather than great.

We lack the condition pressure that other cele builds can output and have a little less self healing potential (other than druid) so our sustain is a bit less.

You'll win fights on them, but fights take forever and if they're running cele, you're fighting uphill. 

We desperately needed a torch rework and some skill/trait updates like every other class are getting in the next patch.

[Zyreva.1078]

I can kill most players fairly quickly with cele druid. Ofc most of them are bad, but that's just how WvW is. Against good players on cele builds it does usually end up as stalemate, but that's not different for any other cele build. It's just how the current meta works (and they keep adding more sustain and boons ...).

Smokescale nerfs will hurt a bit tho. Meanwhile cele harb is getting buffed ... again.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Sansar.1302]

I think Ranger is the class that is the weakest in wvw now

Weakest by far.

[Acyk.9671]

14 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

I think Ranger is the class that is the weakest in wvw now

Weakest by far.

How? It's the best support available in WvW right now. If you are talking about roaming well News Flash the gamemode isn't balanced around roaming.

[Arheundel.6451]

Ranger is literally "trash" in WvW due to the complete lack of viable condi specs, the only ones capable of dealing with cele trolls and perma stealth BS....yeah I know already...the usual carebears will come here with the usual "b--b--but...Sic'em"..yeah killing the worst noob who massively screw up once in a blue moon surely makes it worth...sarcasm off/.

Cele tanks and massive boon spam make power builds on ranger completely obsolete, you need hybrid dmg to get through the layers of toughness, dmg reduction while dealing with the aftermath of damage nerfs...oh...and let's not forget the worst class mechanic: pets.....utter garbage joke outside 1-2 honourable mentions

The end result is ....crap in my opinion, and please now..go on with your sad faces spam...that will surely change the fact that I literally farm rangers without even looking at the screen now...unless it's some boon-centered try-hard who can't even bother me, let alone kill meon his own.

The main problem is :  Cele is meta and it's here to stay  and cele ranger builds suck...no access to burning, torment, confusion is any capable manner...without these condis..your condi build suck...no enough dmg..no quickly enough.

• The sustain is average at best
• Low access to stability
• Pets suck big time...worst class mechanic in the game
• No Cleave/AoE ranged attack 
• Projectile based...when everything these days is block/reflect.
• etc etc etc etc

End result: no worth it

[Mr Pink.1382]

4 hours ago, Acyk.9671 said:

News Flash the gamemode isn't balanced around roaming.

I am sorry but this is just wrong. Otherwise there would have never been a reason to nerf staff, then owp and let loose. Also there wouldn't be any reason to take away smokescales knockdown and increasing the cooldown of most pet cc in the upcoming patch.             

Imo it is very clear what Anet tries to do here. For never players it feels terrible to get one shot by sic em rangers so they get rid of that playstyle. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Mr Pink.1382

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

If anyone interested of a roaming build, I find Untamed Pure melee a very doable and viable roaming build you can contact me about it if you wish as I'm only interested in letting people whom understand ranger well enough try it out, it is a completely different play-style to the typical ranger meta and in the right hands can be devastating.

Things that I feel that ranger as a core class which play into spec later that are missing. I have no experiences in Zerging as a ranger however as a roamer since the old days of retribution and at some point rarity of clearing conditions. I generally feel like ranger as a core lacks alot of fundamental in certain weapons skills and utilities that other classes have.

Stuff like  the ability to block reliably, consistently/reliably applying conditions, reliable/variety of utility skills, Boons Like Stability, Resolution and Resistance Ect. 

• TORCH
  • Starting off I like to address that Torch as a condi offhand weapons... suck. It sucks unless you can keep the opponent in the field. For !@#$% sake there's even a pickup variant in the over-world that give access to other players of those skill regardless what class you play. Torch needs a full rework to make the weapon interesting and useful for both Wvw/Pvp and even to some extend PVE.  The 4th ability is just a lame throw, and 5th is just a stationary pulsing AOE ... for those who don't know. Every class who utilizes a torch has some kind of reliable damage or utility that works extremely well with their Kit. Meanwhile the torch is just.... an unreliable damage weapons. I could go in depth how I would rework it or how Anet could fix it but I rather keep that in a separate topic.
•  OFF-HAND AXE
  • So Off-Hand Axe is a great weapon.... for PVE but for a Wvw senario it kinda a hit or miss weapons. If you land 5 while the enemy isn't moving... it some really big damage so I have no really issue with this... ability I just wish it kinda allowed you to move while you spin... like how they did the changes to warrior Sword Burst ability. The biggest culprit to why the Axe is kinda bleh weapon is its 4, whoever design the 4th ability needs to be confronted and asked WHY, WHY DID YOU MAKE IT A REALLY REALLY TERRIBLE SKILL SHOT. This ability sucks so much I only really use this if the person is legitimately up my face. This weapon doesn't even return to you properly which is awful for some really neat combos. Like please make this 4th ability return back to you... and I mean HOME BACK TO YOU. Imagine the kind of combo that you can do with this weapon if it has that feature, Please let it boomerang back to us and I will have no qualms with this ability.
• Utility Skills
  • Signets
    • Signets are interesting utility for a ranger core and even for some of the spec, the best signet that really comes up to mind is Signet of stone & Signet of Wild and to some extent Renewal . The problem with these signets is that unlike other classes that get some interesting augment or extra effect through their traits, we generally get ability to produce boons when we use them.  Problem is that, All of the signets effect are useful passively and don't want to activate them unless extremely specific situations (and its pretty extreme) signet of stone generally want to hold it if your about to get burst or mitigate tons of Physical damage, Wild is only really useful for benefiting the extra ferocity for strike damage builds & with the intonation of druid Blood moon trait for the extra bleeds. Signet of renewal is generally useless unless you really  need 13 condi thrown onto your pet which the pet has no way of clearing it unless you swap a different pet as soon as they eat the condi. Ontop of that you dont even get the god dam boons from renewel which is one of the many boons we are missing....your pet does.  Signet of the hunt.... 25% movement speed, super speed on activation and unblock-able which in can be seen some use in Wvw I guess for the amount of reflects and blocks.... but for roaming there are just generally better alternatives for speed, unblockable attack on the signet is simply super situational or useless depending on the game mode. Regardless, they need to rework the signet trait & some the effects to make they desirable to take.  Majority of the classes gain an improved effect, or passive effect continue to persist after use or augmented to the class mechanic itself so why can't ranger get something that ether ties into the class mechanic or augmentation. The example of some kind of rework is making the renewal revive the pet on activation instead of this "throw your unwanted conditions" to your pet and see it die/force swapped.
  • Commands (formerly known as shouts)
    • Commands are one of the few utilities that have a lot of practical uses to every ranger build out there, they are universally useful, from Protect me, Sic em & Strength of the pack! however, Search & Rescue is a situational skill and Guard is straight up useless. There is no world where you would guard in any god dam game mode, it sucks and there are just better utilities and even relics now that can mitigate damage for allies. Example are stance share with Dolyak and lyhr's relic with healing + it gives a BARRIER, a barrier to allies. Ether way, the trait for the Command is semi decent with tons of swiftness and regen application, I really think giving this set of utility some sort of augmentations to  can make some of the under used abilities better like extending the range or Search & Rescue and maybe do something with guard? Possibly rework it entirely? or give it a more engaging and interesting effect? Make all the command a Shout again so they can see some use or synergy with Trooper and Reaper Relic? This is only wishful thinking.
  •  Traps
    • Traps are interesting utilities, they are unblockable, they provide okay utilitie for blasting might, weakness or healing  and they're unblockable. A good ranger with a good mind game can really take advantage of traps... I sometimes use them as a suprise utilities against people... something like the ice trap a great way to setup some cool combos with your sword 2 and 3 effect.... best of all if the ice trap goes off and misses just leap through it to get an ice aura which gives you 10% reduce damage and chills foe when they strike you.  All of the traps are great in PVE no question about it, and their traits augment the duration of their effect, I just wish traps have something more to them.... like how Dragon-hunter traps work with their boon applications on activation would make traps more interesting, heck one of their traps is a stun breaker 😕 and all we get is cripple and duration for our offensive traps....
  • Spirits
    • Ah yes... Spirits, the most reworked utility in the ranger's kit. Spirit were cool back then... I miss the days when these little guys followed you, and then turned them into weird versions of banner/totem skill and then ruined them entirely as utility... well some things do look nice and cool like getting the ability to distribute aegis on earth spirit or get some form of resistance boon through frost spirit..... but every other spirit is just kinda meh... and ... bleh for both game modes. Sure there are some uses for them.... but only in a really supportive or super super situational. OH and spirit of Nature is just not worth it, I would very much like the spirits to be something like a necromancer minion where they have an active and passive effect, but I really doubt Anet would let rangers have more offensive based summons considering we have THE PET mechanic and I could see it being overwhelming to deal with in PvP scenario. Anet really needs to look at spirit and ask themselves this, how can we make this utility fun without being ether brokenly powerful to absolutely useless. They need to redesign the spirit with a motif that is well suited for them, summoning these spirits in a PVP or Wvw senario just... sucks.
  • Beastmastery
    • Potent Ally
      • Beastmastery is a great traitline .... but there some redundancy or overlapping that make this trait line feel wasted... good example is that of Potent Ally, it states When you crit or your pet crit you or your pet gain might. Well.... Marksmen has a better way to generate might easily and you don't even need to crit whats bettter is you get more based on the missing health of your enemy... and you might say this but I want my pet to generate might too! Well... Nature magic make that happen pretty easily and generates more might then having potent ally alone. It a bleh trait and can just be easily replaced with any other might generating utility/trait that we have.  This trait needs a rework.
    • Natural healing
      • This trait sucks, a okay version of infinite regen for your pet, this only kinda okay if your a soul-beast and then you benefit the Regen-Like Passive. Alot of core problem is having alot of staying power in fights unless you go super tanky or beefy and even then it is still not worth it, if they made this apply to you and get rid of the whole effect on pet merge it would make this ability more desirable or optional when considering builds. This trait just really sucks and ether needs to be reworked or have its application applied to the ranger as well.
    • Go for the eye, Wilting strike & beastly warden
      • Just merge these all into one trait and come up with 2 more newer traits for beast-mastery, Surely everyone can really agree that pets AI is very tedious to manage and almost annoying sometimes with certain Scenarios ... Stupid Gazelle gallivanting to who knows where.  Merging these trait like I said would open the other 2 empty traits for something else more interesting and on top of that would make any player feel less guilty trying to invest a lot in their pets f2 when it ether doesn't connect or just not function correctly.
    • Passive Traits
      •  Just adopt the Mechanist method of adding stats to your pet.... I can go into a whole explanation about this and how you can properly balance this without gimping soulbeast as soulbeast is pigeon holed or built a reliability to Beastmastery.... this is going to be saved for another topic when I have time but TLDR, Make it take % of base stat from the pet and apply to the ranger, and make another passive take % from the ranger and apply it to the pet, this essential add an identity to what kind of ranger you play.

There's a lot I can begrudgingly complain or suggest but hopeful you see my point in some stuff about ranger, Ive been playing ranger since the start of Guild wars 2 and do almost every game-mode & content in the game. I'm not asking to agree with me because I had alot of experience with ranger nor to disagree ether, but essentially to come to an understanding that ranger lacks quite a lot of things that the other classes & specs have. I really hope Anet takes a really good look at some underused abilities and redesign them better for the health of ranger as a core. PVE ranger is doing great but in WVW and PVP it really suffers alot of variety. 

Ether-way thanks you for reading till the end and understand my point of ranger as a whole for all the game modes.... especially WVW. 

My primary language is Russian so I may have missed editing some stuff...

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Santo.2419]

Ya kiddn right? I'm constantly being pew pew'd in a second by rangers from who knows where, or jumped by a soulbeast who i only just see before I'm dead.

I do play a glass Ele tho, and you *** seem to just look for that to shoot... hella annoying with such burst at such range

Edited November 8, 2023 by Santo.2419
Typo

[Beddo.1907]

3 hours ago, Santo.2419 said:

Ele

Yeah that checks out.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

5 hours ago, Santo.2419 said:

Ya kiddn right? I'm constantly being pew pew'd in a second by rangers from who knows where, or jumped by a soulbeast who i only just see before I'm dead.

I do play a glass Ele tho, and you *** seem to just look for that to shoot... hella annoying with such burst at such range

No I'm not,  especially if you play an ele generally speaking you guys have so many ability that can block,invuln or avoid damage from a rangers pew-pew unless they decide to take signet of the hunt which they have to sacrifice some of their high dps utility which I generally doubt they would.

I fought some really amazing ele as a pew pew ranger and generally speaking its both a fun and frustrating relationship when it comes to fighting a really good ele. Your weapons skills are insane when one of them can give you an invuln which can be pair up with mistform and not to mention arcane shield?  Not to mention your focus has that big aoe that blocks missile. The only really way to counter those block-able abilities is running ether signet of the hunt which "ok I sacrifice a very crucial utility"  or utilizing traps since they're unblock-able.

The last thing I need to hear is Soul-beast pew pew is op, it only op if you don't understand how to ether deal with it or skirt along the lines of its range.

 

I speaking in a manner of 1 v 1 duel or Roaming setup not zerging. My experiences with being in a Zerg or so I like to call them "assballs" are generally small.

[Serephen.3420]

17 hours ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

No I'm not,  especially if you play an ele generally speaking you guys have so many ability that can block,invuln or avoid damage from a rangers pew-pew unless they decide to take signet of the hunt which they have to sacrifice some of their high dps utility which I generally doubt they would.

I fought some really amazing ele as a pew pew ranger and generally speaking its both a fun and frustrating relationship when it comes to fighting a really good ele. Your weapons skills are insane when one of them can give you an invuln which can be pair up with mistform and not to mention arcane shield?  Not to mention your focus has that big aoe that blocks missile. The only really way to counter those block-able abilities is running ether signet of the hunt which "ok I sacrifice a very crucial utility"  or utilizing traps since they're unblock-able.

The last thing I need to hear is Soul-beast pew pew is op, it only op if you don't understand how to ether deal with it or skirt along the lines of its range.

 

I speaking in a manner of 1 v 1 duel or Roaming setup not zerging. My experiences with being in a Zerg or so I like to call them "assballs" are generally small.

Just like you mentioned taking signet of the hunt sacrifices high dps utilities, it's the same for ele taking all those. 

The invul is not even remotely as good as it used to be. It's channelled and you can't do anything either. 

That said with ele vs ranger it's usually a hit or miss. The winner is usually the one who jumps the other first unless there is a massive skill gap.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

OP...

Magnetic Aura - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Your welcome

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

54 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

Just like you mentioned taking signet of the hunt sacrifices high dps utilities, it's the same for ele taking all those. 

The invul is not even remotely as good as it used to be. It's channelled and you can't do anything either. 

That said with ele vs ranger it's usually a hit or miss. The winner is usually the one who jumps the other first unless there is a massive skill gap.

Most of ranger utilities isn't usually damage related. majority of their utility is just survival, with the rare occasion of sharpen stone here or merge Soulbeast sic'em here. tho I'm looking at this in a Roaming perspective, I've seen able spew not only stuff of previously mention but being able conjure a earth shield is pretty handy, or access to tons of auras. Most of my frustrating encounter were generally shock or mag aura, its pretty strong and I wish I had ways of getting those Aura... which they used to be in runes...now not anymore.

Regardless, point im trying to make with this is you guys have a plethora of utilities that are viable or work in some way, and can change its variety in utilities.  Seriously, wheni see an earht shield ele that genuinely scares me.

[Mell.4873]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:44 PM, psizone.8437 said:

Nitpicking but I'd say they're good in roaming/small scale rather than great.

We lack the condition pressure that other cele builds can output and have a little less self healing potential (other than druid) so our sustain is a bit less.

You'll win fights on them, but fights take forever and if they're running cele, you're fighting uphill. 

We desperately needed a torch rework and some skill/trait updates like every other class are getting in the next patch.

It is very rare for Condition damage to really finish anyone. Almost all WvW is about burst/Power damage and not Conditions.

I mean why do you need Conditions damage when sic em Soulbeast can potentially one shot players. If you are trying to out last a Roaming celestial build you can just run away and try burst them again later. 

Honestly the match up is more important than what you bring. My roaming Celestial build does have alot of Condition damage but in a burst form since I use the Axe ambush and chain 2 of them together. Failing that I just run away. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Sansar.1302]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

It is very rare for Condition damage to really finish anyone. Almost all WvW is about burst/Power damage and not Conditions.

I mean why do you need Conditions damage when sic em Soulbeast can potentially one shot players. If you are trying to out last a Roaming celestial build you can just run away and try burst them again later. 

Honestly the match up is more important than what you bring. My roaming Celestial build does have alot of Condition damage but in a burst form since I use the Axe ambush and chain 2 of them together. Failing that I just run away. 

I find that most damage in wvw is condi

[PrinceValentine.9320]

Do people on this forum site even play the game? Like seriously... 

Heal Druid is top tier as support in organized squads only second to Firebrand. 

Do you guys even play with organized groups or just roamers in general? 

[Sansar.1302]

1 hour ago, PrinceValentine.9320 said:

Do people on this forum site even play the game? Like seriously... 

Heal Druid is top tier as support in organized squads only second to Firebrand. 

Do you guys even play with organized groups or just roamers in general? 

I only solo roam, but i actualy want to play a bit in squad with my ranger too.

But NOT as healer.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:28 AM, Mell.4873 said:

It is very rare for Condition damage to really finish anyone. Almost all WvW is about burst/Power damage and not Conditions.

I mean why do you need Conditions damage when sic em Soulbeast can potentially one shot players. If you are trying to out last a Roaming celestial build you can just run away and try burst them again later. 

Honestly the match up is more important than what you bring. My roaming Celestial build does have alot of Condition damage but in a burst form since I use the Axe ambush and chain 2 of them together. Failing that I just run away. 

Have you ever set foot in wvw at all? Or are you being sarcastic?...mate 99% of wvw is condi burst...even thieves play condi scepter and cele meta is here to stay....the warrior zerk gs busr skill for zerg gameplay it's just a drop in the ocean....WvW is like Condi wars 2