Hurl Venomous Axes with the Thief’s Expanded Weapon Proficiency

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

It looks pretty interesting. The idea of pulling back axes to land a combo sounds great. It very, very loosely reminds me of one of the skills Talon uses in League of Legends or Xayah's feather retract for a stun.

It would have been cool if auto attacks would leave axes too, but then... I suppose because of initiative it may not have been good. Although maybe every 3rd auto could leave one.

Edited November 11, 2023 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

It would have been cool if auto attacks would leave axes too

They do, watch the video again. The one with the red / orange trail was the auto and the one with the green trail was Venomous Volley.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

1 hour ago, Tails.9372 said:

They do, watch the video again. The one with the red / orange trail was the auto and the one with the green trail was Venomous Volley.

Oh, awesome 😁. Thanks, I only briefly watched it on my phone. It honestly sounds like a lot of fun.

[Bunny.9834]

literally no one asked for this. no one. 

What a missed opportunity for off-hand sword. 

[draxynnic.3719]

13 hours ago, Twilightmage.8309 said:

Yeah im just hoping for an aoe ranged power or hybrid weapon so my "sniper" deadeye can stop using a sword 80% of the time.

The thought did strike me that the design seems fairly well calibrated to triggering Maleficent 7. Pistol offhand won't have as much access to stealth as dagger offhand, though.

[graishak.5406]

i do like the the idea of the axes, i would like to have that aoe/cleave niche filled, but i am really afraid this looks like another weapon that will be hardcountered by reflects. it would be really sad if this ends up unplayable in wvw.
 

[Vadar.5724]

Yeah, axe could be the wvw weapon we have needed for 10 years... It looks like an aoe long range damage weapon. An aoe long range pull of some kind would be nice. Imagine if we could use a weapon that actually did aoe damage/supression that's not a majorly nerfed shortbow. However, knowing Anet, it's going to be another 1 target weapon that's completely useless.

[reddie.5861]

6 hours ago, Vadar.5724 said:

Yeah, axe could be the wvw weapon we have needed for 10 years... It looks like an aoe long range damage weapon. An aoe long range pull of some kind would be nice. Imagine if we could use a weapon that actually did aoe damage/supression that's not a majorly nerfed shortbow. However, knowing Anet, it's going to be another 1 target weapon that's completely useless.

i think you forgot about projectile i guess half kitten gets reflected in ur face not dealing any dmg.
thief is doomed for another patch on wvw xD

[Vadar.5724]

I didn't forget. At this point anything would be good.

[reddie.5861]

On 11/13/2023 at 4:37 AM, Vadar.5724 said:

I didn't forget. At this point anything would be good.

ye old dmg back from thief, that would be a good start.
going from high dmg and high mobility to wet noodle dmg and basically mobility is non sense now with every1 porting around like idiots 😛

so ye giving us proper backstab dmg back for example would be a good start.

[Batalix.2873]

Kinda lame concept, and really stepping on Mesmer's toes.

Still would have preferred an offhand axe or sword with some rope-grappling gimmicks. Much more in line with Thief's identity.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

I honestly don't see any value in this.

This should have a kamas skin and act like one.

A throwing main hand axe for thief doesn't really tickle my fancy.

[Stx.4857]

So did anyone see the animation at the end of the Axe stealth attack?  It looks like some sort of explosion.  I hope it’s good and deals a lot of damage.  I’m tired of playing single target weapons like scepter.  

[Doggie.3184]

13 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I honestly don't see any value in this.

This should have a kamas skin and act like one.

A throwing main hand axe for thief doesn't really tickle my fancy.

I thought the color scheme was odd, orange with no shadow magic colors~ no Thief colors. But it's based on the Assassin; Kanaxai, except they forgot the Dual Wield part and the deadly Buzzsaws spinning in place that kill you instantly if you touch them part. I guess that's to avoid having to do bizarre positioning like Ele Hammer got cursed with though. Unless they went with a ground target route and we could fill the area with deadly spinning traps like a spammable Mesmer Dagger 3 combined with Ranger Axe 4. Might be annoying to use for long periods of time tho, idk.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kanaxai

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kanaxai,_Scythe_of_House_Aurkus

If Thief had stuck to some Ninja training they'd be using Kamas with Chains attached to them and swiping them around in fan and circle AoEs around them, and the spinny part would be like throwing giant Shurikens with wires attached to them to make deadly Yoyo's, like in Naruto. 🐱‍but we lost too much Power and Technique by being away from Cantha too long. Still, if it has great AoE coverage and enough damage to be a main weapon for both condi and power without annoying me with weird forced movement I'll be happy.

I wonder if the Aurene weapon effects will make the projectiles look like water discs and etc when they're spinning. It'd make it cooler looking if so.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[draxynnic.3719]

I do think the awkwardness of placing the axes is part of why they made them do no damage - if they were damage fields, they'd either need to be ground-targeted, or players would end up having to go to great lengths to make sure that the axes ended up exactly where they wanted them. With the spinny axes doing no damage, the thief doesn't need to worry about where they are beyond "is the path going to be blocked when I use skill 3", and the overall power budget can be based on that assumption.

I suspect another reason is so that a stealthed thief can't be revealed by an enemy player deliberately walking into an axe. (Which, come to think on it, might also be part of the reason that thief traps were reworked into preparations). 

[Doggie.3184]

57 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I suspect another reason is so that a stealthed thief can't be revealed by an enemy player deliberately walking into an axe. (Which, come to think on it, might also be part of the reason that thief traps were reworked into preparations). 

Yeah that makes sense.

If only they'd remove the 3 second arming time from Preperations that feels like an eternity. XD

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I wonder if the Aurene weapon effects will make the projectiles look like water discs and etc when they're spinning. It'd make it cooler looking if so.

They should, although there is precedent of them not giving legendary effects to certain animations e.g. engineers Rifle Burst Grenade for everything except the Gen 3 base variant.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I do think the awkwardness of placing the axes is part of why they made them do no damage - if they were damage fields, they'd either need to be ground-targeted, or players would end up having to go to great lengths to make sure that the axes ended up exactly where they wanted them. With the spinny axes doing no damage, the thief doesn't need to worry about where they are beyond "is the path going to be blocked when I use skill 3", and the overall power budget can be based on that assumption.

I suspect another reason is so that a stealthed thief can't be revealed by an enemy player deliberately walking into an axe. (Which, come to think on it, might also be part of the reason that thief traps were reworked into preparations). 

I'd agree on the second reason if traps always worked that way, except that traps were only changed to deal damage after a stealth trapper thief managed to solo slothazor. The ghost trapper thief was a WvW plague for many moons before that video finally got the spec nerfed. And tbh I'd be fine with the opportunity cost of axes revealing me for doing decent damage: you wanna deny me stealth by standing in my pulsing AoE? Okay then. Enjoy the torment damage that doubles when you stand still. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

11 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

I thought the color scheme was odd, orange with no shadow magic colors~ no Thief colors. But it's based on the Assassin; Kanaxai, except they forgot the Dual Wield part and the deadly Buzzsaws spinning in place that kill you instantly if you touch them part. I guess that's to avoid having to do bizarre positioning like Ele Hammer got cursed with though. Unless they went with a ground target route and we could fill the area with deadly spinning traps like a spammable Mesmer Dagger 3 combined with Ranger Axe 4. Might be annoying to use for long periods of time tho, idk.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kanaxai

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kanaxai,_Scythe_of_House_Aurkus

If Thief had stuck to some Ninja training they'd be using Kamas with Chains attached to them and swiping them around in fan and circle AoEs around them, and the spinny part would be like throwing giant Shurikens with wires attached to them to make deadly Yoyo's, like in Naruto. 🐱‍but we lost too much Power and Technique by being away from Cantha too long. Still, if it has great AoE coverage and enough damage to be a main weapon for both condi and power without annoying me with weird forced movement I'll be happy.

I wonder if the Aurene weapon effects will make the projectiles look like water discs and etc when they're spinning. It'd make it cooler looking if so.

Not only this but I can guarantee the axes won't stealth once placed on the field. It would be a dead giveaway based on where the thief could be if stealthed. Not Bueno imo

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

5 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I'd agree on the second reason if traps always worked that way, except that traps were only changed to deal damage after a stealth trapper thief managed to solo slothazor. The ghost trapper thief was a WvW plague for many moons before that video finally got the spec nerfed. And tbh I'd be fine with the opportunity cost of axes revealing me for doing decent damage: you wanna deny me stealth by standing in my pulsing AoE? Okay then. Enjoy the torment damage that doubles when you stand still. 

It's torment damage though. Bleeds are better suited and would proc more traits than torment. Larcenous torment and strength of shadows traits are for specter only which means that you'll HAVE to take Trickery for enough initiative to do anything meaningful with specter base initiative low. 

If we took Trickery and Deadly Ambush, then we probably won't have bleeds anyway unless A/P has a form of bleeds...which is doubtful because it's been stated it probably would be power based.

Tormented enemies rarely stand still unless in PvE at which point you would have to keep them immobilized or knocked down cced etc. In pvp or wvw it's probably a definite they'll keep moving.

 

Torment damage calculation vs Bleeding:

Bleed: (0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second at level 80.

Torment: (0.07 * Condition Damage) + 26 damage per stack per second at level 80. [Stationary Wvw/pvp]

(0.054 * Condition Damage) + 19.8 damage per stack per second. [Moving spvp/wvw]

(0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second at level 80. [PvE Moving]

(0.09 * Condition Damage) + 31.8 damage per stack per second at level 80. [PVE STATIONARY]

 

YES, in pve...ok...but we're not using torment fully, even if deadly arts would aid poisons but at what cost? Cleanses are too plentiful to make anything consistent based outside of roaming in wvw in a beneficial anyway or PvP.

Look we get shiny toy axe...but does it really do anything other than meaningless Condi and boom axe? No...I don't think so. Yeah sure cleave/aoe but I'd rather pick up a stick at the rate the balance team seems to get thief needs.

Acrobatics still not touched, specter base initiative needs unnerfed, ricochet needs to come back and more Condition based traits to be introduced in appropriate areas. Why Trickery has a bleed increase is beyond me. Belongs into deadly arts

Give us a sort of deep wound on the enemy already from gw1.

@anet: how long until thief metrics go down too far for you to understand?! 😆 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

12 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I do think the awkwardness of placing the axes is part of why they made them do no damage - if they were damage fields, they'd either need to be ground-targeted, or players would end up having to go to great lengths to make sure that the axes ended up exactly where they wanted them. With the spinny axes doing no damage, the thief doesn't need to worry about where they are beyond "is the path going to be blocked when I use skill 3", and the overall power budget can be based on that assumption.

I suspect another reason is so that a stealthed thief can't be revealed by an enemy player deliberately walking into an axe. (Which, come to think on it, might also be part of the reason that thief traps were reworked into preparations). 

Honestly... just have them do damage, and treat them as a bonus.

Given that thief kites when using ranged weapons, the idea that you can move about in a way that makes it riskier for a player to chase you through your axes is kinda fun. It would also help thief with some much needed potential aoe.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 hour ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

Honestly... just have them do damage, and treat them as a bonus.

Given that thief kites when using ranged weapons, the idea that you can move about in a way that makes it riskier for a player to chase you through your axes is kinda fun. It would also help thief with some much needed potential aoe.

Skill 2 is Venomous Volley, which throws out a fan of three poisonous axes. Once these axes reach their final destination, they’ll remain spinning at that location but won’t deal additional damage while stationary. Up to six spinning axes can be active at once.

The description suggests that the stationary axes won't deal additional damage, but they may still deal some base damage at their final location. It doesn't explicitly state that they deal no damage at all while stationary. Mind this

 

[draxynnic.3719]

7 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I'd agree on the second reason if traps always worked that way, except that traps were only changed to deal damage after a stealth trapper thief managed to solo slothazor. The ghost trapper thief was a WvW plague for many moons before that video finally got the spec nerfed. And tbh I'd be fine with the opportunity cost of axes revealing me for doing decent damage: you wanna deny me stealth by standing in my pulsing AoE? Okay then. Enjoy the torment damage that doubles when you stand still. 

And then the change to preparations came afterwards, and one of the results was to make is so that they could be used in combination with stealth without creating a permastealth ganking build.

2 hours ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

Honestly... just have them do damage, and treat them as a bonus.

Given that thief kites when using ranged weapons, the idea that you can move about in a way that makes it riskier for a player to chase you through your axes is kinda fun. It would also help thief with some much needed potential aoe.

That would risk making it mandatory, and given the range the axe skills seem to have, an environment where you want to get those axes precisely on an enemy (or vice versa) seems like it would be a massive PITA.

[Burial.1958]

Looks super boring. Another ranged weapon after Deadeye and Specter. Comon where is my offhand Sword or GS Ronin Brawler. 😔

[Doggie.3184]

16 hours ago, Burial.1958 said:

Looks super boring. Another ranged weapon after Deadeye and Specter. Comon where is my offhand Sword or GS Ronin Brawler. 😔

Depends on if they're nice and give it a melee cleave that fires a projectile at same time, which is actually what I wanted for mainhand sword if you look at my wishlist, lol. Master Sword kinda stuff: "Sword Slice/Slash/Crippling Strike: Sword 1 Skills fire a short ranged piercing Shadow Blade projectile finisher through the enemy when you're above the health threshold. Kinda like a single projectile Dragon Claw. (A fun way to give sword combo finishers without it being stealth combo related.) "