Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Guardian

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

Expanded weapon proficiencies are coming in 2024 during the second major update for Secrets of the Obscure, bringing a new weapon and skills for each profession. The expanded weapon proficiency beta event is live now and will run until 10:00 p.m. Pacific Time (UTC-8) on December 3.

You can leave your feedback for the guardian in this thread.

[moku.9278]

pistol 2: beam visual weirding out when moving and jumping

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/898661166405017620/1179112946450833418/guardian2.gif?ex=65789981&is=65662481&hm=5c58e7fdca24c89ef16dd15ad6b8c0bcdcfc6809f2bfd960a4fb284d03d9eb27&

 

pistol 5: projectile doesn't explode on target when fully charged

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/898661166405017620/1179112955737014383/guardian5.gif?ex=65789983&is=65662483&hm=cbc93f89692a28522058f0b799cbb3c9c30805f8695ec4614949b84c75dbec86&

[Axam.6174]

I think the projectile not exploding on target with a level 3 charge is by design since the skill indicates that it's manually exploded. Pistol 5 does annoying shoot towards the ground a short distance from your feet sometimes though. I can't seem to figure out what causes it...

[moku.9278]

Currently you have to press 5 to fire the projectile (level 3 gets charged before the end of animation, so you'll want to cancel early) and then keep mashing 5 to explode the projectile before it flies away from the enemy - in melee range I found this rather inconsistant, and obviously you'll be melee a lot of the time. This is why I'd much rather have it simply explode on target.

[Axam.6174]

Yes - it's awkward that to have a skill with both automatic and manual explosion modes AND mixed targeting styles (shooting at a target but detonating at a location).

[Ahlaradra.5837]

Casual/PvE perspective

I like the interplay of skill 3, symbol of ignition, and skill 2 and 4. But skill 3 has a 12 seconds cooldown and only a very short uptime of around 3 second, including the short cast it has. For it being the centerpiece of this weapon, it has too little uptime in my opinion. I think it should at least have an uptime of 50%. 

Skill 2 seems to track targets, which is fun. It also has a generous cooldown of 6 seconds. Although the glow emitted from your weapon makes it impossible to see the beam when your camera is behind your character. Thus it feels weird and impactless, because you have no visual feedback whether it connects or not. The audio is also bugged, as the sound effect just abruptly stops upon skill completition rather than slowly fading away.

Skill 4 is the best, in my opinion. It has 2 initial charges, which is good for some initial burst, and a bit more damage than skill 2. Sadly, skill 4 will get cancelled whenever you press another input, while skill 2 will always finish its channel first. (Which I prefer personally)

Skill 5, I am unsure what to think. Is it worth the long cast time for the damage it does? Not sure. Good thing is you can move while casting. I also think the remote explosion could feel a bit heaver, audio wise. For it tossing enemies all over the place and being supposed to be a big nuke, it sounds very tame and cute. 😄

And then skill 1. Gods, I hate it. It's super weak, feels boring and annoying to use, looks pretty stupid and just does not feel engaging at all. This could have really benefited from a 3 stage base attack like most melee weapons have it, where you attack in different ways and the damage increases. For this reason, and the long cooldowns of skill 3 and 5 in mind, this is definitely no weapon I want to camp in at all. 
Skill 4 being essential to profit off of skill 3, and the base attack being so bad, makes me not want to have this as a primary weapon. And skill 4 depending on skill 3 and skill 5 having 20 seconds cooldown, means I would also never use this as a secondary.

Overall, the weapon, by design, forces you to use 2 pistols, but it's not self sufficient enough (due to having a very bad base attack) as that I would want to camp in it. It's something where I quickly dump skill 3>2x skill 4>skill 3 and then maybe skill 5 (smarter people will have to determine whether the math works out) before I just switch to a proper weapon again. 

I think the pistols have potential, if the feel, aesthethic and finer details of the weapon are further fleshed out. For a beta, it was totally fine. 🙂

[Panda.1967]

Everything seems good... except for Skill 5 Charge Level 3... There is some major inconsistency on if it will or won't launch automatically and sometimes when the visual que for charge 3 is seen it is still only on charge 2... additionally the detonate on reactivation for charge 3 is EXCESSIVLY clunky... please allow it to detonate either on target hit or give us a ground-target for it and detonate at target location... The window for manual detonation is too small and the projectile moves too fast to be reliable at all.

Edit:
After further testing.. Skill 2 Peacekeeper & Skill 4 Hail of Justice should be swapped... When using Dual Pistols as a packaged deal, the current placements of these two skills seems fine... but the moment you try using Off-hand Pistol with any other Mainhand it becomes apparent that HoJ is heavily tuned to be used alongside the Pistol 3's Symbol of Ignition skill. Without it the skill is just too weak even with 2 ammo charges. Peacekeeper actually stands up on its own quite well and would work better as an Off-hand skill allowing HoJ to always be paired with  Symbol of Ignition. If HoJ is considered to strong for a 2 skill, then move SoI to 2 and put HoJ on 3... the important thing to note is that HoJ NEEDS to be on the mainhand along side SoI.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Panda.1967

[Makion.3457]

Hello everyone! I did some tests with Dragonhunter Radiance 1 2 3 Zeal 3 1 3 and 2 2 2 and this is what I like and would change so far 

Skills 1 and 2 are meh but ok so lets move the the next ones.

Symbol of Ignition: I find it kinda useless that the symbol activates on your feet or you need to stand behind it to use the effect, instead of that it would be cool if the symbol activated On the targets first hit, dealing crippple or if other conditions rather than cripple or burning. 

Hail of justice: My fav so far! but I would like the guardian to use both pistols at the same time on this skill, it would look SO much cooler! after all its a volley of bullets! 

Jurisdiction: I like it but its waaaay too slow and has a rather big cd for a skill, perhaps It could be improved with less charges and a faster first shoot. 

[GoodMartin.6307]

Personally i like guardian pistol, because it's very dynamic and ranged condi weapon is what I've been lacking on condi willbender. But i have some issues:

Symbol of ignition: Why is it casted on the ground right under my char? Whole set is ranged meanwhile for some reason AN decided to make it insta casted under my char? Feels out of place and akward, the best option for it i found is to cast it as a last spell before swapping into melee weapon to make full use of it, but shouldn't it be easy to use up to it's max potential with pistols only? I would rather see it casted as a projectile that spawn the symbol either on marked target or as casted ranged spell. Even if it would mean nerfing the damage.
Jurisdiction: I will be completely honest here, i absolutely hate this skill. It takes soooooo long to cast at a max charge level i feel like I'm wasting my time and i bet if someone checks it it's probably a dead on arrival skill that will just drop your dps with that absurd cast time. Guess it's always some additional cc but 2 sec cast time to max charge level is way too long anyway. Also i hate how you have to click it once, then click again during charging to shoot at a certain charge level. Wouldn't it be more natural to make it so player has to HOLD the button to charge it and shoot on releasing the button?

+ having to additionally press the 5th skill button AGAIN on max charge level to make it explode just makes it even more annoying and miserable
`

Edited November 28, 2023 by GoodMartin.6307

[Donutdude.9582]

P5 needs adjusting.  Auto-detonation after charging to L3 offers better QoL than manual detonation, especially in melee range.
P3 could use a bump in duration considering the risk/reward of casting at feet encouraging melee combat.

Overall, a quirky addition to the Guardian's arsenal.  If the above gets adjusted, I'll consider playing it on release.  In it's current state, it will not turn me away from my Sword, Axe, Greatsword or Staff.

[hugo.4705]

OK so here's my feedback for that new weapon: (Through I do think that it lacks utility/elite skills to be like other specs)

Character animations:  Well, I will say same as engie, because it is a pistol, it feels kind of static, the character is taking pistols and just shot basically without doing any specular acrobatics which could have been free dodges.

Skills animations: The skills are beautiful and do feel elite spec like especially skill 5, that looks like a mage casting their spell, it looks epic, sadly that effect seems tied to skill 5, skill 3 could have another ground effect like a big arcanic circle because that animation look like a guardian mace skill or an already existing skill! Skill 1 and 4 have same animation, skill 4 could have at least more spell effect like skill 5 to distinguish it from skill 1. Well it do have a few animations to be added but that dual pistol guardian aren't as bad as engie shortbow skill 1.

Mechanics: It looks like spec gimmick is skill 5 that you decide to fire at the step you want, either without magic circle, with it started or letting it happens fully. And so i gonna do the same complain as with warrior skill 3. If you apply a gimmick, apply it to the 5 skills from the weapon. Not only 1. So make all the 5 skills charging for less or more damage.

Damages and effects: The damages as pretty decent and efficient, the pistols are very fun to play. Bleeding, Cripple and ton of Burning. Yup pretty efficient for a condi.

So. It is a good spec weapon to me, nicely thought, good looking mostly, good damage. So just need also the skills icons to be added.

 

[itspomf.9523]

Had this been a revision to Guardian's scepter, I'd have said you had finally given them a good ranged condition damage weapon (even if Bleeding feels a bit out of place on a profession historically focused around Power and Burning damage).

What we got instead is a flashy, hot mess that seems more interested in making pretty blue animations than really feeling like it's doing much of anything.

[GuriGashi.5617]

I like the weapon design of Pistol/Pistol in PvP so far and have only a few minor suggestions 

 

1) Power coefficients across all skills are too low and Burn duration should be set to 2 seconds in PvP - it is a bit sad that power builds can‘t benefit from the new weapon set, because the Pistols do too little strike damage in PvP, especially if we consider that the damage is single target when compared to Greatsword or Hammer. The Burn duration (1s) is a bit too short as well - Guardian already has limited access to conditions and the one damage condition it has access to needs some proper uptime (2s - same as Permeating Wrath) in PvP. 
 

2) Symbol needs a Boon or bullets shot inside the Symbol should deal increased Strike Damage - it feels like the Symbol gains only value if played on condition variants. When played on power it is rarely worth to cast it. I would suggest giving Quickness to the Symbol or extra Strike Damage to the bullets when casted inside the Symbol in order to make the weapon set attractive for power builds as well.

 

3) Add damage to Pistol 5 or else there is no reason to charge it beyond Charge Level 1 in PvP - there is no advantage for a player to charge Pisrol 5 beyond Charge Level 1 since the orb is slower on Charge Level 2 & 3 and there is no damage bonus for charging it longer in PvP. Treat it like Earthshaker on Hammer Warrior and give it some damage in PvP since it is the signature skill of the kit.

4) It would be really nice if some of the skills had also a little bit of utility like a port backwards or boons - Pistols seem a bit bland utilitywise. I get that they are supposed to be a DPS weapon set, but only damage without any utility or sustain (especially on Guardian) seems a bit weird in my opinion and heavily limits Pistol/Pistol in competitive game modes.

 

Overall Pistol/Pistol seems like content to be excited about if a few minor adjustments are made! Tell the Skills Dev who made the weapon set he did a great job! 

Edited December 3, 2023 by GuriGashi.5617

[GoodMartin.6307]

6 minutes ago, itspomf.9523 said:

Had this been a revision to Guardian's scepter, I'd have said you had finally given them a good ranged condition damage weapon (even if Bleeding feels a bit out of place on a profession historically focused around Power and Burning damage).

What we got instead is a flashy, hot mess that seems more interested in making pretty blue animations than really feeling like it's doing much of anything.

Haven't tested it yet on PvE but in PVP it's very good. A lot of mobility and ranged dmg on condi willbender is a good mix. Besides akward skills 3 and 5 that I've mentioned previously.

[Althean.5976]

Alright, so I'm still getting a feel for the weapon set before I do a more in depth analysis of my experience, but I want to toss something out there to others giving this a shot:

 

Try approaching this, not as a ranged weapon pair, but as a melee weapon set with ranged/disengage options. 

 

Currently, they feel FINE as a strictly ranged set but a tad underwhelming. Very scepter feeling. HOWEVER, there's a specific distinction for skill 3 that is worth looking it: the symbol only inflicts Vulnerability if the enemies are within it. Got me thinking. My initial thought was to combo 3/4 together to take advantage of the ignition property at range, but if I'm missing out on a good chunk of what skill 3 offers, what happens if I'm in melee?
Sure enough, proccing up the 3/4 combo when you're point-blank suddenly feels so SATISFYING! Ok, so now I'm thinking: how does this go further? Here's what I'm noticing that might be a good way to use these weapons if you're feeling underwhelmed or like it needs a little something:

 

Look at pistol 1. 2, or 5 (on charge 3 with the massive manual detonation) as your opener to use while you're closing the gap. Let's you start that damage ticking before they can touch you. As soon as you hit melee, proc pistol 3 followed immediately by pistol four. Mix in your desired utility skills and auto-attack while waiting for cooldown, using pistol 4's additional charge through any other fields you throw down as they come up. Drop pistol 3/4 combo, and repeat. If you're running Firebrand, rolling through Mantra of Flame is even better in this combo! Purging Flames is also suddenly more viable as you don't have to choose between the condi cleanse and damage if you and your enemy are both standing in it. Then, if you're needing some breathing room, use pistol 5 on charge 1 or 2 to blast them back so you can readjust. You can move around as you see fit from there. Need to get out of aoe pain fields? You don't have to stop all damage while you try and stay alive now! Want to drop a Wall of Reflection on that two forged marksmen to your left that won't take a hint but you don't have the right angle to place it while blocking both of them? Knock back your enemies and reposition! Got six mordrem with hammers getting ready to flatten your entire party for the next six consecutive seconds? Not anymore! That aoe knockback on pistol 5 charge 1/2 will take care of all of them quick, and AT THE SAME TIME! Are those same mordrem across the battlefield and about to flatten somebody else's party? Pistol 5 charge 3 has you covered with some massive damage, and since you have to manually detonate it that means you get to choose the best position to fling them back from! If you're rocking Willbender, then your inherent mobility is just further complimented by how flexible these weapon skills are. This can also be a phenomenal option if you're playing with a cc Dragonhunter build comboing Glacial Heart and axe/pistol with your longbow setup. No longer are you forced to take shield just for the cc bubble if you want to focus on damage over survivability there.

Best part: All of this compounds if you're taking on multiple enemies at at time. Pistol 1/2/4/5 all have a pass-through mechanic that lets them hit multiple enemies at a time. And all the conditions you're throwing on them will help tick down their health while you're focusing on a specific target. Works great on condi-focused builds prioritizing aoe. Don't believe? Go try running the choya stampede event right outside Amnoon. Place yourself 1/3rd of the way down the alley from the gate and become the fantasy lawman, the impenetrable wall of flame and justice. Positioning is not only key with this weapon, but HIGHLY rewarded.

PS: the ranged aspect isn't forgotten about here. Use it to extend your engagement range. Many enemies will also move around in and out of melee range, and the 900 range on your skills lets you track them with ease. 

 

Overall: Pistol/Pistol isn't the single target condi-ranged set many of us were assuming it'd be. It CAN work that way, but you're often better off taking a different set for that. However, what pistol/pistol does very well is serve as a flexible, multi-target close/mid ranged weapon that let's YOU control the fight and how it's handled. Even long after the first shot is fired. This is the condi-weapon set you pick to lean heavily in to Guardian's inherent flexibility.

[TwistedAlga.4235]

It looks and feel pretty cool. But please change the sound of the skill 3 (or 2?) I believe it was... it has the same ''sound'' as Druid's staff skill 1 sound which is extremely annoying.

[Batalix.2873]

Yawn. More fire?

You might as well replace all the staff, greatsword scepter, hammer, sword, mace, and shield skills with fire while you're at it. You can't seem to think of any other angle to design Guardian around; it's been the flattest, narrowest profession design since FB.

Can't wait for fire!rifle next expansion, and fire!warhorn.

[Vyce.2014]

Permeating Wrath feels pretty weird on a pistol condi build. The ideal gameplay with that trait is to get in melee range with the pistols. I wonder if there's a way to fix that.

[Althean.5976]

I'm not super sure a fix is needed. Pistols work pretty well within the range of Permeating Wrath (I'd personally argue they work better at that range), and otherwise seems like it'd be a playstyle trade off if needing to stay at much further ranges.
That being said, I do understand that it's the meta pick for condi builds that take Virtues and why more synergy would be desired.

[Ezrael.6859]

So far for feedback after testing today.

Jurisdiction should be hold to charge and release to fire. The level 3 charge should automatically explode if it impacts the selected target, pressing again could prematurely detonate, or using it with no target to simply fire forward and manually detonate.

I think the burning values on Jurisdiction have been too heavily nerfed in PvP/WvW, it barely does any burning at all, this is a charged skill that's very easy to interrupt with a huge animation to show it charging up. The burning duration and bonus burning for each level should be increased.

 

For a pure damage set the overall damage is a little underwhelming in WvW and PvP, I assume you were cautious with balancing to start, the base power damage is quite low compared to other weapons and the condi although a nice spike is very short and falls away after 1 second of peaking. It works ok as a condi or hybrid weapon but struggles as pure Power.

I think overall it could be tuned up a little given it's medium range full offense no defense set up.

 

Symbol of Ignition needs a boon, something offensive ideally and strong as the payoff for standing still with a weapon set you ideally want to be mobile and at range with - Quickness would be amazing, but I'd settle for Resistance to help the damage land or Resolution for build synergy.

Most of the power damage on the Pistols is loaded onto this Symbol, but it appears underneath your feet, you don't really want to be meleeing with these things so it makes little sense. It might perform well on Golems in a test but in the actual game against PvP/WvW or PvE it just doesn't work so well, if the Symbol automatically appeared under the targeted enemy it would work better.

Symbol of Ignition would be more interesting and useful as a Fire field also, rather than every Symbol having to be Light on Guardian.

 

Overall it's a lot of fun, I spent hours in WvW just roaming and zerging and thoroughly enjoying it, you have to be cautious at 900 range when most enemies are 1200 or 1500 but it's fluid and fun at medium range with mobility which is what Guardian has lacked since 2012 compared to other professions.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ezrael.6859

[Spellslinger.3758]

Hi there, longtime guardian main here. Speaking from a semi-casual PvE perspective, here are my thoughts.

First off, I was really hoping pistols would be viable for both power and condition builds. Either that, or please completely rework scepter and longbow to not be clunky and actually feel good to play. Seriously, I've been waiting for a scepter overhaul since I was in college a decade ago...I've been through four jobs now, but my favorite weapon thematically is still the same garbage mechanically it was from the beginning.

That being said, here's my feedback on the weapons in their current state:

• Skill #1 [Through the Heart]: I agree with previous comments that this skill doesn't feel impactful enough. It needs to either be reworked into a chain skill or given some other added effect to make it feel less bland. The name also isn't really to my taste. Lastly, I noticed the projectile seems to fire above the target's head sometimes depending on the enemy. This happened with training golems, for instance, but it seemed fine on enemies in the open world.
• Skill #2 [Peacekeeper]: This one feels pretty good. No real notes here, other than I like the name. Great job, team!
• Skill #3 [Symbol of Ignition]: The symbol should be created beneath the target, not the guardian. Otherwise, what's the point of being at range? The combo field should also be fire instead of light; it's more thematically appropriate given the skill's name and function (and honestly more useful, too).
• Skill #4 [Hail of Justice]: This one also feels pretty good. My hot take, though, is that it should be moved to slot #2, and the other skills should be scooted down. This skill makes for a good opener with it causing cripple, so it feels more "right" to have it further left on the bar. Then once you've ensured the enemy is at bay, you'd go about laying down the rest of your damaging skills. That might just be a personal preference, though.
• Skill #5 [Jurisdiction]: Again, I'm in agreement with most of the previous comments. The only good thing about this skill is its cool name. Everything else needs to be completely reworked. The casting time is way too long to justify the weak reward of charging it all the way. The ball of flame should automatically explode on the target instead of needing to be manually triggered, and it should be a blast finisher. The tooltip is also way too long and needs to be consolidated; make the skill effects consistent across all charge levels, but with scaling intensity at higher levels. Maybe a little something extra as a bonus if charged to the maximum level. The visual size of the explosion should also scale with the charge level.

As a couple final notes, please remove the glass shattering sound effect that sometimes plays with some of the skills. It's jarring enough that I already know I'd be instantly irritated if I used these weapons regularly. And lastly, this is really more of a side request in regard to beta characters overall: can we please get Total Makeover Kits? We already get Transmutation Charges, so I don't see the harm in this. Or maybe I'm just the only weird one who likes to make my test characters look like my regular characters so I can get in the zone a little more.

Looking forward to seeing how all the player feedback is used to improve the new weapons!

[Bunstonious.8173]

I'll add to the people suggesting that ability 3 should put the symbol underneath the target as it feels super awkward to use right now and defeats the idea of being a range weapon.

I like the idea of a charged ability, i'll be interested to see how #5 goes.

[Assic.2746]

Sound Effects

I mostly like the sound effects. I have one issue though with the humming aftercast sound on skills #1 and #4. It's too loud. When I tested it with quickness I could only hear a near constant hum. The sound of a ghostly bullet being shot is perfect but the 'whoosh' sound after that is not the kind of ASMR I enjoy. 

I really like Skill #5 sound effect. I can tell without looking that it is charging and when it reaches next level.

Visual Effects

Skill's #2 visual effect loses its track while moving. It doesn't update frequently enough. 

Skill #3 looks just like Symbol of Wrath. I hope it gets some Bullet/Flame theme during development. 

Skill #5 I really like it. The visual effect of this skills looks kinda epic. 

Skill Overview

1. Skill #1 doesn't feel good. It's blant spam. 
2. Skill #1 should have more interactions with Skill #3. Eg. Using Skill #1 while standing on the Skill #3 gives you boons or heals you slightly. Pistol/Pistol needs more skill combos. So far it has only damaging combos Skill #3 -> Any multi-hit skill. There is a room for more options.
3. Skill #2 doesn't fit main hand pistol. It's a staff beam. Not even a projectile. 
4. Skill #3 so far doesn't feel very exciting. It's just another wariant of Willbender's Justice. Pop it -> unload skills you can. 
5. Skill #3 is a symbol yet it doesn't grant any boons making pistol a bad choice for a condition-support hybrid build.
6. Skill #5 Love it! It actually enables reactive gameplay. I can fully charge it or release it early if I need to. 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Assic.2746

[Benevolent.4083]

I had a relatively good experience with Guardian Pistols. A ranged condition weapon option was much needed! While I still feel Guardian needs to better condition traits outside of just Firebrand, that's not what this topic discussing.

Auto-attack: Feels a bit weak. Might just because it's bleeding which is weak. But it's fine because it at least pierces.

Skill 2: While the beam looks a bit awkward, I like it's functions that it moves with you so you aren't locked into one place.

Skill 3: I would prefer that the symbol is either ground targeted or just lands where your target enemy is. The entire purpose of ranged weapons is to stay at range. In order to get the benefits of this symbol, with it dropping right below me, I need to be in melee range with the enemies for it to do anything. Yes, you can fire projectiles through it to cause burning, but that isn't enough.

Skill 4: Seems good enough. No complaints right now.

Skill 5: The charging mechanic seems weird. I'm likely not going to go out of my way to end this early for a weaker effect when the charge is only 2 or so seconds. I'm just gonna wait for it to full charge. Then, the fully charged beam should just explode on your target enemy. It was weird seeing it just move away 900 range where the enemies no longer are. It made the effect kind of useless.

 

Overall, with some tweaks, this has a lot of potential!

[Doggie.3184]

no submarine sound please