Is Elementalist really the weakest class out there?

[soulknight.9620]

56 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

https://killproof.me/proof/b8RE

Now can we all agree that this guy bought all of his CMs and achievs? /joke

I believe all of you guys are talking about different things. You need to get some common grounds like are you talking pve or spvp/wvw ele. OW, end game pve, or casual pve. The situation varies. 

[zeyeti.8347]

16 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Now can we all agree that this guy bought all of his CMs and achievs? /joke

I believe all of you guys are talking about different things. You need to get some common grounds like are you talking pve or spvp/wvw ele. OW, end game pve, or casual pve. The situation varies. 

That's true (not the buying lol) , ele has his versatility going well for wvw and pvp and is hardly enough for open world , but is not well equipped enough as comparison for other classes in endgame pve.

I paid 28 kaineng overlook cm , how many mystic coins does it ? 😆

ty for softening the mood btw.

Edited December 16, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

22 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

at some state i didn't care much about pve open world and only do endgame content

22 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

And low intellectual level my a** ! if you want the peepee comparison i gave you proof of my own knowledge , now you can give me yours.... gonna see who is the slow brain...

 

[zeyeti.8347]

On 12/17/2023 at 7:03 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 

I answer hidden insults by true insults i don't mind you are welcome !

[draxynnic.3719]

Realistically speaking, context matters in this sort of discussion, and instanced PvE does do a good job of exposing elementalist weaknesses while minimising their strengths. Self-sustain? Doesn't matter, that's the healer's job, but your low health does matter. Ability to make good use of all stats making Celestial a strong option? Doesn't matter, you need to specialise. Relatively weak set of utilities? That hurts your ability to adjust to specific bosses. Defenses tied up in specific attunements? Extra steps required to have the right defensive skill when you need it, and you're more likely to lose DPS or HPS if you have to switch for a specific skill. Alacrity through overloads? Vulnerable to CC. Need to cycle attunements to apply boons? You might need to interrupt boon application to go back to Water for healing and, worse, might not be able to.

None of these are insurmountable, and other professions have issues as well, but I think it is fair to say that the content you're engaging in will affect your viewpoint on the profession.

[zeyeti.8347]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Realistically speaking, context matters in this sort of discussion, and instanced PvE does do a good job of exposing elementalist weaknesses while minimising their strengths. Self-sustain? Doesn't matter, that's the healer's job, but your low health does matter. Ability to make good use of all stats making Celestial a strong option? Doesn't matter, you need to specialise. Relatively weak set of utilities? That hurts your ability to adjust to specific bosses. Defenses tied up in specific attunements? Extra steps required to have the right defensive skill when you need it, and you're more likely to lose DPS or HPS if you have to switch for a specific skill. Alacrity through overloads? Vulnerable to CC. Need to cycle attunements to apply boons? You might need to interrupt boon application to go back to Water for healing and, worse, might not be able to.

None of these are insurmountable, and other professions have issues as well, but I think it is fair to say that the content you're engaging in will affect your viewpoint on the profession.

I will say your description of the ele is on the spot, it get the job done, but has too have all those weaknesses for no specific reason , the example of alacrity trough overloads is one of the best example , you have literally no other class who have to got trough so many 4 (2.8sec with quick) sec cast time for maintaining alacrity, and that is a huge weakness, you aren't allowed to dodge or cancel the cast of the overload or else you will severly impact boon , especially alacrity , uptime , other classes don't have that kind of weakness, it's too sad for a game who is considered fast paced combat for an Mmo.

Some will say it makes the ele unique , true , but if your uniqueness is to be punished on any missteps well i rather be mainstream than unique.

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, it would probably be more in line with what other professions have to do if alacrity was linked to auras or something like that.

[Jski.6180]

I must say after playing druid for a bit support tempest dose seem lacking. I would not say weakest but it for sure falling behind chron and druid and some what FB.

[cjttruelife.9172]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:54 PM, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said:

Elementalists have it rough. They've got low health, flimsy armor, and can't even switch weapons.
When you factor in the complexity of their gameplay, their survival skills (or lack thereof), their role in teams, and their limited build options, it's a tough gig. 
I mean, I was looking at this class after the balance patch, and it seems like they didn't change much. 
There are a few Quality of Life tweaks, but the whole picture still seems kinda unfinished.

What's the deal with Tempest in Guild Wars 2? 
There's no decent DPS or boon DPS build for it. And don't even get me started on Heal Tempest; it's playing second fiddle to Heal Scrapper or Heal Mechanist. 
It's like Tempest is at the bottom of the priority list.
Speaking of buffs, Overload Air used to be something to reckon with, but now it's just a shadow of its former self. 
Lightning Flash? It's got a 35-second cooldown, not even a stun break, and a measly 900 range. Seriously, are we in 2023 or 2012?
The traits aren't playing nice either. Alacrity traits are in a brawl with the healing ones. And what's the deal with turning Water Trident into a total dud of a skill? 
It's like Anet just squashed the one way Warhorn Tempest could do some ranged healing.
I mean, they had three whole months to cook up this balance patch, and this is what they served? 
Scrapper gets buffs, and it's already outshining Firebrand in most encounters. But Tempest, poor Tempest, is left hanging. 
It's like Anet's playing hide-and-seek with it.

And Weaver is a big no no! 
They're asking for some healing power and vitality because, let's face it, those base barriers are paper-thin. 
But wait, they also want power and condition for vitality? It's like a mixed bag of tricks.
The barriers, they're a total joke. Those minor traits hardly give you any barrier, and landing those dual attacks is like threading a needle. 
Seriously, it's not a walk in the park (especially when you look at Holosmith's barrier). 
Plus, we're missing all those fancy barrier Mechanics that the Scrappers have. What's the deal with that, you ask? Well, I'm as lost as you are.

Let's shift gears to Catalyst. It feels like a bit of a miss. 
They say it's supposed to be this 'steadfast presence on the battlefield' 
But then they make Scrappers as 'steadfast presence with the battlefield' 

Heck, even my condi Tempest had some pretty decent defense and sustainability. 
In comparison, those Hammer 3 balls on the Catalyst felt too limiting for me, and the slow channeled Hammer 2s? 
Yeah, they were just plain clunky. Even when I had Celestial gear on, I couldn't find a good reason to switch from Celestial Scrapper to Celestial Catalyst,
Because the Scrapper's Hammer felt way more responsive for a frontline melee weapon.

I saw some clips where they were talking about the stationary golem DPS benchmark for the Catalyst being pretty high. 
But you know what? It's a whole different story in PvP, WvW, open world, and other game modes where everything's moving around like crazy. 
So, is that it? Is the Catalyst just a full-on DPS spec with a litte of Quickness on a ideally golem? 
If that's the case, it's pretty underwhelming.

Now, When you put Elementalists and Engineers side by side, you can't help but see the huge difference. 
It's like saying 'If there is Yu, why is there Liang?'

Engineers possess a repertoire of versatile utility skills, boon removal, invaluable and swift group stability, along with continuous group superspeed. 
The Mechanist specialization is a clear testament – Engineers take the lead right from the start.

Honestly, I don't think ArenaNet could even point to a spot in Guild Wars 2 where Elementalists shine the brightest. 
As someone who's been Team Elementalist, it's starting to feel like we're playing the game on hard mode just for the fun of it. 

It's time for change. Either Engineers get a power cut, or they buff Elementalists. 
Balancing is key, but turning GW2 into "Mecha Pet Simulator" is no solution.

it's clear you along with mostly everyone thats ever played GW2 or given a shytte about still cant figure it out -sense it blows - its worth of worthlessness. a really bad game QQ 😕

Edited December 22, 2023 by cjttruelife.9172

[Junkpile.7439]

My scepter dagger core ele collect borja marches daily chests just fine. It can do other pve content too.

[Cuks.8241]

I like my eles (got 2 to accommodate all the builds). It's more than fine everywhere besides instanced pve. There I don't play it. It's adequate, even very strong in some roles I guess. But comparing to Firebrand or various Revenant builds it's just too much hassle in general. I mean on my Rev I can literary cover all the roles in a squad, with three of the build having very similar gameplay so no fear of getting rusty on a specific build. And Firebrand, regardless of the build, has all the utility baked in baseline and very easy to use. Ele has lot's of utility but it come at much more cost and requires you to know fights very well to be pre-emptive. So unless you really really like the class and main it, there are usually better (and more important easier) options.

But outside of instanced pve ele is great.

[Axl.8924]

On 12/16/2023 at 9:41 AM, zeyeti.8347 said:

That's true (not the buying lol) , ele has his versatility going well for wvw and pvp and is hardly enough for open world , but is not well equipped enough as comparison for other classes in endgame pve.

I paid 28 kaineng overlook cm , how many mystic coins does it ? 😆

ty for softening the mood btw.

Ele seems to be well versed in a bit of healing and dps which makes it challenging to balance.Its glassy and depending on which elite it can be decently fast with extra dodges and decent melee range attacks.

[zeyeti.8347]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

Ele seems to be well versed in a bit of healing and dps which makes it challenging to balance.Its glassy and depending on which elite it can be decently fast with extra dodges and decent melee range attacks.

Thats something not welcomed in Hl pve , nobody cares your dps class is gonna sometimes heal for 1200 hp your sub , if you are dps , you go dps , if you go heal you go heal , except for hammer i can't see every attunements fit in one single role , purpose of air when you play heal ? oh yes 100 breakbar damage woohoooo... , purpose of water when you play dps ? staff is garbage in water , dagger is garbage in water , sword is garbage in water , scepter is garbage in water ... a whole attunement has no purpose as dps for 90% of ele weapons in Hl content ...

I truly want something like "firefields heal allys" trait , having tempest overloads boon sharing from 180 to 360 ... the overloads less cluncky to use , 5secs to wait for a ready overload and 4 sec cast time... wayyyyy too long , looking at herald 1/4 cast time for maintaining regen , prot , might , fury , swiftness and quick ... now look at what ele has to do for the same results ....

[Axl.8924]

49 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Thats something not welcomed in Hl pve , nobody cares your dps class is gonna sometimes heal for 1200 hp your sub , if you are dps , you go dps , if you go heal you go heal , except for hammer i can't see every attunements fit in one single role , purpose of air when you play heal ? oh yes 100 breakbar damage woohoooo... , purpose of water when you play dps ? staff is garbage in water , dagger is garbage in water , sword is garbage in water , scepter is garbage in water ... a whole attunement has no purpose as dps for 90% of ele weapons in Hl content ...

I truly want something like "firefields heal allys" trait , having tempest overloads boon sharing from 180 to 360 ... the overloads less cluncky to use , 5secs to wait for a ready overload and 4 sec cast time... wayyyyy too long , looking at herald 1/4 cast time for maintaining regen , prot , might , fury , swiftness and quick ... now look at what ele has to do for the same results ....

You know all to well its a result of elementalists even with a dps weapon having access to water attunement to heal.

I'm not saying its good for elementalists, i'm just pointing it out.They could overhaul so certain weapons have no healing at all but considering how you have 1 weapon some point of regen or something or i guess unless kits for heals.I just want to play a ele spec thats ranged.So tired of melee range and having to  be a glass cannon.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Axl.8924

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

You know all to well its a result of elementalists even with a dps weapon having access to water attunement to heal.

I'm not saying its good for elementalists, i'm just pointing it out.They could overhaul so certain weapons have no healing at all but considering how you have 1 weapon some point of regen or something or i guess unless kits for heals.I just want to play a ele spec thats ranged.So tired of melee range and having to  be a glass cannon.

There's really no excuse for it in the current state of the game, though.  I mean, take a look at the minor trait "Impact Savant".  5% of strike damage passively returned as barrier.  That's far more powerful than the healing of water attunement and it's passive.  If elementalist wants to actually serve a healing role, then they should of course have to build for it.  But there's no reason for water attunement to be so weak for damage builds.  It doesn't make sense anymore.

[Axl.8924]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

There's really no excuse for it in the current state of the game, though.  I mean, take a look at the minor trait "Impact Savant".  5% of strike damage passively returned as barrier.  That's far more powerful than the healing of water attunement and it's passive.  If elementalist wants to actually serve a healing role, then they should of course have to build for it.  But there's no reason for water attunement to be so weak for damage builds.  It doesn't make sense anymore.

Arenanet is bad at balancing i don't even understand this whole we gotta be in melee range.Maybe they can simplify the button combos of weaver and catalyst and raise up quality of life to make weaver and catalyst more accessible and fun.I kinda wonder if having it stay this way while also having quality of life issues could be repaired.

I some of this is over my head as even though i've played some of ele for years my experience in weaver and catalyst is bad i'm extremely bad at catalyst and weaver and i'm probably mediocre to bad at tempest.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Axl.8924

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Thats something not welcomed in Hl pve , nobody cares your dps class is gonna sometimes heal for 1200 hp your sub , if you are dps , you go dps , if you go heal you go heal , except for hammer i can't see every attunements fit in one single role , purpose of air when you play heal ? oh yes 100 breakbar damage woohoooo... , purpose of water when you play dps ? staff is garbage in water , dagger is garbage in water , sword is garbage in water , scepter is garbage in water ... a whole attunement has no purpose as dps for 90% of ele weapons in Hl content ...

I truly want something like "firefields heal allys" trait , having tempest overloads boon sharing from 180 to 360 ... the overloads less cluncky to use , 5secs to wait for a ready overload and 4 sec cast time... wayyyyy too long , looking at herald 1/4 cast time for maintaining regen , prot , might , fury , swiftness and quick ... now look at what ele has to do for the same results ....

They've at least been moving towards making water scepter more useful for damage builds. 

Fire healing is an interesting concept. Could theme it around incorporating the Zephyrite sun aspect into fire magic or something like that.

[zeyeti.8347]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

They've at least been moving towards making water scepter more useful for damage builds. 

Fire healing is an interesting concept. Could theme it around incorporating the Zephyrite sun aspect into fire magic or something like that.

Franckly about that concept i really hope they add a relic like : giving alies an aura heals them , that would franckly bring back the amazing auramancer back from the grave in pve

That's why i am in greatly for the relic concept , it's not perfect atm , but it will open so many ways to enhance your gameplay in the future , like the relic  healing when you blast combo.

They offer unlimited possibilities and open support role for class who lack something in the future , it's too narrow atm (like hscg not having access to swiftness efficiently for his group , it's covered by Relic of Febe , or reaper not having access to fury covered by Relic of the Midnight King who can make you have the +25% crit chance 100% of time).

Really hope arena net is gonna comit and make so much relics it will make our head spin ❤️. ta least having the aura heals you is gonna maybe make me play the Htemp again, for atm i see no reason to play it , only if you like the concept .

Edited December 28, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Axl.8924]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Franckly about that concept i really hope they add a relic like : giving alies an aura heals them , that would franckly bring back the amazing auramancer back from the grave in pve

That's why i am in greatly for the relic concept , it's not perfect atm , but it will open so many ways to enhance your gameplay in the future , like the relic  healing when you blast combo.

They offer unlimited possibilities and open support role for class who lack something in the future , it's too narrow atm (like hscg not having access to swiftness efficiently for his group , it's covered by Relic of Febe , or reaper not having access to fury covered by Relic of the Midnight King who can make you have the +25% crit chance 100% of time).

Really hope arena net is gonna comit and make so much relics it will make our head spin ❤️. ta least having the aura heals you is gonna maybe make me play the Htemp again, for atm i see no reason to play it , only if you like the concept .

Didn-t they start making water elemental more useful outside combat with weaver? i coulda sworn it was during pof or later where water started getting buffed to be useful outside healing such as vulnerability etc? I think its great to see that its useful as a vulnerability spam/damage

Edited December 28, 2023 by Axl.8924

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Franckly about that concept i really hope they add a relic like : giving alies an aura heals them , that would franckly bring back the amazing auramancer back from the grave in pve

That's why i am in greatly for the relic concept , it's not perfect atm , but it will open so many ways to enhance your gameplay in the future , like the relic  healing when you blast combo.

They offer unlimited possibilities and open support role for class who lack something in the future , it's too narrow atm (like hscg not having access to swiftness efficiently for his group , it's covered by Relic of Febe , or reaper not having access to fury covered by Relic of the Midnight King who can make you have the +25% crit chance 100% of time).

Really hope arena net is gonna comit and make so much relics it will make our head spin ❤️. ta least having the aura heals you is gonna maybe make me play the Htemp again, for atm i see no reason to play it , only if you like the concept .

Unfortunately, they seem to be moving at a glacial pace on relics.  The initial release was a bit of a step backward with the removal of rune bonuses and the legendary relic still months out.  The potential is there but they seem to have recreated much of the same problems where only a handful of relics are worth using and I don't know that there's any way around that.  They also seem to be stuck on tacking bonuses onto elite skills for some reason.

[draxynnic.3719]

11 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 They also seem to be stuck on tacking bonuses onto elite skills for some reason.

Which is kinda adding insult to injury, since the only way elementalist gets an elite skill with a cooldown less than a minute is through Glyph of Elementals, and that still has a 'downtime' period where you don't have access to the elemental skills because the elemental has desummoned and the glyph itself is on cooldown.

[Sepher Yetzirah.4615]

I've been maining spellcasters since WoW and in GW2 for some time now, but, last year, fed up with playing my Ele from the floor, I relegated him to an undignified spare bank role and resorted to splitting my main time between a Warrior and a Necro, who usually only go down when I push them beyond the limits of sanity.

Months past, over this last month I decided to give my disgruntled Ele another go, forget Meta builds and create a new one almost from scratch, in a somewhat desperate attempt to bring back the joy that I remembered only playing an Ele can bring. Not that other classes cannot bring back as much, as I have found with my other two recent "mains", but there are things only an Elementalist can do the way it can, just as there are those that only my bulldozing Warrior or my putrid Necro can.

I'm still tuning the build and finding room for improvement, but, only last week, I found myself doing things I had never been able to do.

This week, in an almost empty Silverwastes, I found a lone player, probably as bored as I was, shooting in auto attack from a safe distance at a stationary Legendary Mordrem Tormentor. In what I thought was a suicidal move, I decided to jump at it and, some minutes later, with the legendary's health at 50%, me still alive and being able to sustain the fight, I turned around to realise I had been facing the beast alone for some time. I went on for a couple more minutes, before deciding that either it was not possible to finish the dammed leecher or that it would take a long time. So, I rode the lightning out of there onto the next prey, the Nothern Silverwastes champion. The lone player was already there, and the two of us brought it down without a sweat.

Later, I also found myself finishing off the Mangler alone, while the rest were caught mesmerised... twice.

Now, the above may not sound like big feats, but if you consider I was playing a lower class Ele - Core build, as I haven't yet invested in getting hero points for specialisations -, that sacrifices some damage for some sustain, perhaps it should make anyone at least question the idea that Eles are weak.

And the other idea this whole experience made me question was this rulling tendency to assign the balancing (or lack of) to Arenanet, as ooposed to "sharing the burden", as I realised I also have plenty of options to find the best balance that suits both my playstyle and skill (or lack of).

I am sure I can find ways of dealing more damage, even without sacrificing sustain, but being a full crystal glass cannon would demand a level of skill and knowledge (many skills to memorise and combine) that I simply don't have.

And yet, it doesn't feel I like I am doing bad. On the contrary, more recently, I am doing better. Most important, I got my Fun back and having a LOT of it.

Also this week, some disgruntled squad players wined about the "special effects" my Ele was bringing, while another wrote "Y'all looking cool with all the special effects". I was using my "support build", sharing auras with added near 100% upkept boons of Protection, Fury and Swiftness.

Another poster asks "where do Eles shine?"

Come to the Silverwastes and you'll see the light(show)! 😄

[draxynnic.3719]

It is a bit of a "depends on the context" situation. They do still do fairly well in the open world, as long as you're not running a glass cannon raid build.

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:31 AM, Ahlaradra.5837 said:

For how much effort they require, and for how many buttons you must press, the pay off is certainly not adequate.
It also never made sense to me how Elementalist has to be the highest investment class from the dev's side. They have to invest so much time creating 100 different skills per ele spec, with beautiful icons, numbers etc. and then they treat it with negligence and just nerf it whenever a trace of fun and comfort blossoms for the class.

Yes, the performance is too bad

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:16 AM, Axl.8924 said:

Arenanet is bad at balancing i don't even understand this whole we gotta be in melee range.Maybe they can simplify the button combos of weaver and catalyst and raise up quality of life to make weaver and catalyst more accessible and fun.I kinda wonder if having it stay this way while also having quality of life issues could be repaired.

I some of this is over my head as even though i've played some of ele for years my experience in weaver and catalyst is bad i'm extremely bad at catalyst and weaver and i'm probably mediocre to bad at tempest.

Absolutely agree! ArenaNet's balancing decisions can be puzzling, especially with this insistence on melee range. Simplifying the button combos for Weaver and Catalyst, improving the quality of life, would definitely make them more enjoyable and accessible. It's clear that there are issues, and addressing both the balance and quality of life could go a long way.

Personally, I've struggled with Weaver and Catalyst myself. The learning curve is steep, and even after years of playing Elementalist, I still find myself at a mediocre to bad level with Tempest. It's not just you; there are genuine challenges that need attention.