LW s2 is Despiccably BAD.

[Jaxson.1593]

I'm trying to complete s2, @ "Mystery Cave".

This is just aggravating. There is ZERO fun to be had, and that is what I will remember whenever I DO manage to complete it -- that I was cursing  those who created this and did such a wretchedly bad job of making the timing even vaguely reasonable.

I tried it for an hour, dying multiple times, and all I did was get more and more frustrated with it, because the stupid "divine fire" isn't up all the time -- which would be reasonable, even if it moved around a lot -- so you're running around with absolutely nothing to do for 5, 10 or 15 seconds at a time, constantly looking around, trying to find it. And as soon as you get two fires up, and are trying to light up a third, one of them goes out, so you're back at two  <swearing> fires again. Over and OVER and OVER. Moreover, when the fire IS up, half the time it's right where one of the damage/knock down effects are located, and no, the stability does not last long enough for you to:
a -- get the fire
b -- get the stability
c -- light the blaze at all FOUR LOCATIONS given how fast everything dissipates.
Again -- THIS IS NOT FUN IN ANY WAY. It is just EXTREMELY AGGRAVATING.
This is the third grind in a row that has been used to end a chapter, each one getting worse and worse.

Living World Season 2 is NOT FUN, it is filled with GRINDs, and that is NOT why anyone likes Guild Wars. I could go play WOW and get all the grinding I want. 

Hopefully, the subsequent seasons are better done.

This one needs the timing adjusted to be just a bit more reasonable. It's fine to have to work TOWARDS a goal. But when you are constantly running in place for an hour just to stay partway along, only to be shoved back over and over and over -- until you rage quit. THAT is by definition a GRIND. Please do better. Avoid GRINDS as challenges. 

Edit: Some of the myopically challenged can't handle smaller text. LOLZ.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Jaxson.1593
clarification

[Healix.5819]

The fires only go out if you let the shadows put them out. You can kill the shadows while you're carrying the fire. When lighting the fires, wait for the boss to attack with its arm, which will be followed by its other arm, at which point you can light the fire uninterrupted.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

From the Wiki:  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mystery_Cave#Walkthrough

Good luck.

[Randulf.7614]

It’s a fantastic boss battle. I wish they’d go back to this sort of fight - and I say this as a relatively unskilled player

It doesn’t need adjusting (and there is no grind here either just as an fyi) - people managed it when damage was much lower back 9 years ago. It’s just understanding the mechanics and how the shadows work in putting out the fires. The post below yours explains it

[Teknomancer.4895]

Consider changing your build and/or espec. Sometimes what one spec struggles with, another can handle with relative ease.

[Nekos.3649]

15 hours ago, Jaxson.1593 said:

I'm trying to complete s2, @ "Mystery Cave".

This is just aggravating. There is ZERO fun to be had, and that is what I will remember whenever I DO manage to complete it -- that I was cursing  those who created this and did such a wretchedly bad job of making the timing even vaguely reasonable.

I tried it for an hour, dying multiple times, and all I did was get more and more frustrated with it, because the stupid "divine fire" isn't up all the time -- which would be reasonable, even if it moved around a lot -- so you're running around with absolutely nothing to do for 5, 10 or 15 seconds at a time, constantly looking around, trying to find it. And as soon as you get two fires up, and are trying to light up a third, one of them goes out, so you're back at two  <swearing> fires again. Over and OVER and OVER. Moreover, when the fire IS up, half the time it's right where one of the damage/knock down effects are located, and no, the stability does not last long enough for you to:
a -- get the fire
b -- get the stability
c -- light the blaze at all FOUR LOCATIONS given how fast everything dissipates.
Again -- THIS IS NOT FUN IN ANY WAY. It is just EXTREMELY AGGRAVATING.
This is the third grind in a row that has been used to end a chapter, each one getting worse and worse.

Living World Season 2 is NOT FUN, it is filled with GRINDs, and that is NOT why anyone likes Guild Wars. I could go play WOW and get all the grinding I want. 

Hopefully, the subsequent seasons are better done.

This one needs the timing adjusted to be just a bit more reasonable. It's fine to have to work TOWARDS a goal. But when you are constantly running in place for an hour just to stay partway along, only to be shoved back over and over and over -- until you rage quit. THAT is by definition a GRIND. Please do better. Avoid GRINDS as challenges. 

living world 2 could be deleted and I wouldn't even realise

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

LW2 is very long and boring yes, but if the complaint is "content hard", then all I can say is that you need more practice.
You are struggling even to complete the base content, most people only struggle with the Achievements.

[Cyninja.2954]

23 hours ago, Jaxson.1593 said:

This one needs the timing adjusted to be just a bit more reasonable.

No it doesn't. There are multiple guides out by now. Others have managed to finish this story, get ALL the achievements (some of which where actually hard if not cheesed) back during vanilla days, before years of power creep, before new gear sets, before elite specializations, before celestial stats.

You simply need to stop banging your head against a wall, but instead start using it. Pay attention to what is happening. Try to deduce what you are doing wrong. Adjust and improve (or watch a guide video as mentioned). I really don't get this approach some players have that they keep dying for hours without ever questioning that MAYBE, just maybe they are doing something wrong.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Ashantara.8731]

On 12/4/2023 at 1:28 PM, Jaxson.1593 said:

I'm trying to complete s2, @ "Mystery Cave".

This is just aggravating. There is ZERO fun to be had, and that is what I will remember whenever I DO manage to complete it -- that I was cursing  those who created this and did such a wretchedly bad job of making the timing even vaguely reasonable.

I tried it for an hour, dying multiple times, and all I did was get more and more frustrated with it, because the stupid "divine fire" isn't up all the time -- which would be reasonable, even if it moved around a lot -- so you're running around with absolutely nothing to do for 5, 10 or 15 seconds at a time, constantly looking around, trying to find it. And as soon as you get two fires up, and are trying to light up a third, one of them goes out, so you're back at two  <swearing> fires again. Over and OVER and OVER. Moreover, when the fire IS up, half the time it's right where one of the damage/knock down effects are located, and no, the stability does not last long enough for you to:
a -- get the fire
b -- get the stability
c -- light the blaze at all FOUR LOCATIONS given how fast everything dissipates.
Again -- THIS IS NOT FUN IN ANY WAY. It is just EXTREMELY AGGRAVATING.
This is the third grind in a row that has been used to end a chapter, each one getting worse and worse.

Living World Season 2 is NOT FUN, it is filled with GRINDs, and that is NOT why anyone likes Guild Wars. I could go play WOW and get all the grinding I want. 

Hopefully, the subsequent seasons are better done.

This one needs the timing adjusted to be just a bit more reasonable. It's fine to have to work TOWARDS a goal. But when you are constantly running in place for an hour just to stay partway along, only to be shoved back over and over and over -- until you rage quit. THAT is by definition a GRIND. Please do better. Avoid GRINDS as challenges. 

You know what I find extremely aggravating? 😉 When people pre-format their posts, using a small font and adding a background color that gives you a headache while reading when you are using the dark forum theme.

As for the topic: Try to learn the mechanics and you will discover that the content, while being challenging, is also a lot of fun.
 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Linken.6345]

39 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

You know what I find extremely aggravating? 😉 When people pre-format their posts, using a small font and adding a background color that gives you a headache while reading when you are using the dark forum theme.

As for the topic: Try to learn the mechanics and you will discover that the content, while being challenging, is also a lot of fun.
 

It is apparently to hard to press the post as plain text button when you copy/paste a text.

[Teknomancer.4895]

8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

It is apparently to hard to press the post as plain text button when you copy/paste a text.

Pro Tip:  CTRL + SHIFT + V

[Linken.6345]

9 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Pro Tip:  CTRL + SHIFT + V

Oh I always do ctrl+v and press the button never new about this one.

Learned something new I will most likely forget soon again.

*shake his cane* get off my lawn youngun =P

[Eekasqueak.7850]

The parts with Caithe were the parts I disliked most about season 2.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 12/4/2023 at 7:28 AM, Jaxson.1593 said:

I'm trying to complete s2, @ "Mystery Cave".

This is just aggravating. There is ZERO fun to be had, and that is what I will remember whenever I DO manage to complete it -- that I was cursing  those who created this and did such a wretchedly bad job of making the timing even vaguely reasonable.

I tried it for an hour, dying multiple times, and all I did was get more and more frustrated with it, because the stupid "divine fire" isn't up all the time -- which would be reasonable, even if it moved around a lot -- so you're running around with absolutely nothing to do for 5, 10 or 15 seconds at a time, constantly looking around, trying to find it. And as soon as you get two fires up, and are trying to light up a third, one of them goes out, so you're back at two  <swearing> fires again. Over and OVER and OVER. Moreover, when the fire IS up, half the time it's right where one of the damage/knock down effects are located, and no, the stability does not last long enough for you to:
a -- get the fire
b -- get the stability
c -- light the blaze at all FOUR LOCATIONS given how fast everything dissipates.
Again -- THIS IS NOT FUN IN ANY WAY. It is just EXTREMELY AGGRAVATING.
This is the third grind in a row that has been used to end a chapter, each one getting worse and worse.

Living World Season 2 is NOT FUN, it is filled with GRINDs, and that is NOT why anyone likes Guild Wars. I could go play WOW and get all the grinding I want. 

Hopefully, the subsequent seasons are better done.

This one needs the timing adjusted to be just a bit more reasonable. It's fine to have to work TOWARDS a goal. But when you are constantly running in place for an hour just to stay partway along, only to be shoved back over and over and over -- until you rage quit. THAT is by definition a GRIND. Please do better. Avoid GRINDS as challenges. 

Not to sound condescending but this feels like a "get good" moment. The fight is rather straightforward and simple once you notice the pattern and mechanics for the attacks. Everything happens in a very specific order, in 2/3 sets. I did this very recently on one of my worst geared characters, who's an ele so extra squishy, and didn't have any problem at all. Zero grind, zero challenge.

The "damage/knockdown effects" occur in a very speicifc pattern in the same locations. Land pushing itself up in two lines that form a + shape, followed by 8 plants that explode if you touch them; to detonate them harmlessly, walk on the vines between pairs.

The Shadow's claws are preventable with Braham's bubbles that occurs in a cycle among the four spots ignoring the spots that are already lit. The bite which is the third (claw->claw->bite, rinse repeat) requires stability buff or dodging. Channel after the bite while at a bubble if you don't have stability; if you have stability use it at the start of the channel.

The fire only goes out if a Smothering Shadow hits it - beginning with the second time forming a fire ring. To kill a Smothering Shadow, simply be buffed by the Divine Fire and attack a Smothering Shadow; this will use up the buff so if you stand in the fire and hit the shadow with a range attack, you'll immediately get the buff again. Smothering Shadows only spawn once per fire wall triggered until the very final burn phase (just ignore them and burn the Shadow of the Dragon).

It's very easy once you know the mechanics and patterns, and by the words in your post - you don't, and that's why you're struggling. I hope explaining some of them helps you, and others have shared the wiki walkthrough.

[Jaxson.1593]

On 12/4/2023 at 8:20 AM, Healix.5819 said:

The fires only go out if you let the shadows put them out. You can kill the shadows while you're carrying the fire. When lighting the fires, wait for the boss to attack with its arm, which will be followed by its other arm, at which point you can light the fire uninterrupted.

So... yet another thing to delay for...? I'm already waiting to get the fire, and having to avoid getting nuked by the rando appearance under me of large circles I have to get out of with almost no time to do so whatsoever, which knock me instantly to half health or less, and recur far faster than my only health spell recovers...?

 

Quote

The "damage/knockdown effects" occur in a very speicifc pattern in the same locations. Land pushing itself up in two lines that form a + shape, followed by 8 plants that explode if you touch them; to detonate them harmlessly, walk on the vines between pairs.

Right, and you only have to do THIS while dodging the slam and other issues. The plants form and blow up so fast that it's hard to even change direction in the time they do so.

Maybe YOU are great at twitch gaming. I'm older than that. And I don't mean to be snide, there, that's just a fact. There's a limit to how "get good" you can get if "getting good" is twitch based, and you're not a teenager any longer. As with the grind issue, I'm not looking for a twitch game -- if I was, I'd be playing League. 😏

 

Quote

The Shadow's claws are preventable with Braham's bubbles that occurs in a cycle among the four spots ignoring the spots that are already lit

Right... and, once more -- I'm only doing 37 OTHER things forced upon me by the patterns of the game, which are timed too tightly.

I just rage quit after a freaking hour of this crap.I literally esc-exited the game.

Despite the fact that I really  want, for various reasons, to get LW2 DONE so I can get on to LW3 for reasons I won't detail, I haven't gone back to it since, because it's going to be a massive aggravation to complete it. 

I don't expect it to be EASY.  It's a boss fight, yeah, I Get It.

But you need to give a game a feeling of PROGRESS in a boss fight. You need to be able to see the END happening, even if slowly. That is what makes this a GRIND.

This does nothing of the sort. It's just an endless hack hack hack grind with no visible progress of any kind. I guess THAT is my chief complaint with this, and hope they consider paying attention to that kind of thing in future design.

[Jaxson.1593]

On 12/5/2023 at 12:46 AM, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

LW2 is very long and boring yes, but if the complaint is "content hard", then all I can say is that you need more practice.
You are struggling even to complete the base content, most people only struggle with the Achievements.

Actually, I'm well along on that. I've just passed 10k AP. I've completed The first expansion, am halfway through the second expansion, have done much of Kaineng City in the third. 

My primary lack is that I haven't yet gotten any Ascended gear at this point... that's a small part of why I've gone back to the LW stuff as I've been needing MPs to go further in the first expansion and the initial Krytan zones. I've got access to Arborstone so it's now reasonably inexpensive to get to, and thus get around, Cantha. I've got three of the four main Canthan zones except Echowald fully mapped and completed.

Any specific Achievements I haven't done is more because I'm not that intrigued with finicky accomplishments they usually invoke, plus the way the wiki handles subcomponents is weak (i.e., "do these 'x' things to achieve this" -- they have a means for marking off the top level achievements you've accomplished, but can't tell you which of the 'x' things you've already done)

This is not a real concern. Again, one reason for going back to the LW is that accessing those areas is a large part of the remaining Achievements... I've done a large percentage of what is available in HoM, as well as the CD. It's the outlying areas, tied to the LW, which I haven't done.

[Healix.5819]

11 minutes ago, Jaxson.1593 said:

So... yet another thing to delay for...? I'm already waiting to get the fire, and having to avoid getting nuked by the rando appearance under me of large circles I have to get out of with almost no time to do so whatsoever, which knock me instantly to half health or less, and recur far faster than my only health spell recovers...?

If you keep moving, you'll never be hit by those attacks. You run around waiting for the attacks, then light the fires in between them.

[Teknomancer.4895]

Just curious since it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere: what kind of build are you taking into the cave? I got stuck on that one for a while until I swapped the character into a more mobile spec & build.

I'm working on 100% story completion from start to finish on that character so I'm going back to fill in the skipped-over (or wiped-out) parts, and that was one of them.

It felt like I was almost able to do it solo, but stuff was happening too far apart for me to do Thing A at one end of the map and then rush over to Thing B on the opposite end in enough time. I switched to a build with more mobility and was able to manage it solo, but it was still pretty annoying.

I'd be willing to help out with it if you like, just msg in-game and I might be able to help get you through it.

[Jaxson.1593]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:10 AM, Healix.5819 said:

If you keep moving, you'll never be hit by those attacks. You run around waiting for the attacks, then light the fires in between them.

Got that part. Again, it's doing the OTHER 47 kabillion things required AT THE SAME TIME that is nearly impossible. The fire, for example, only stays up for a couple seconds, and if you don't get to it in that time, well,, that's still MORE time in which you can accomplish nothing. And those shadows I'm supposed to kill so they don't put out the existing lit fires? Well, THEY get free run, right?

[Jaxson.1593]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:16 AM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Just curious since it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere: what kind of build are you taking into the cave? I got stuck on that one for a while until I swapped the character into a more mobile spec & build.

I'm working on 100% story completion from start to finish on that character so I'm going back to fill in the skipped-over (or wiped-out) parts, and that was one of them.

It felt like I was almost able to do it solo, but stuff was happening too far apart for me to do Thing A at one end of the map and then rush over to Thing B on the opposite end in enough time. I switched to a build with more mobility and was able to manage it solo, but it was still pretty annoying.

I'd be willing to help out with it if you like, just msg in-game and I might be able to help get you through it.

Unleashed hammer ranger (Hammer? Seriously? WTF is a ranger design doing being focused on a hammer, kitten? *sigh* But it is powerful enough that, unlike a bow/sword ranger, it can solo legendaries, if not champs -- and I really haven't fully optimized it yet as to equipment -- still collecting parts for that stuff)

 

Quote

It felt like I was almost able to do it solo, but stuff was happening too far apart for me to do Thing A at one end of the map and then rush over to Thing B on the opposite end in enough time.

Yeah, this does seem to be part of it. Speed is an issue, and one of my complaints, given that stuff does not stay up for long enough, and/or stuff recovers too fast.

[voltaicbore.8012]

11 hours ago, Jaxson.1593 said:

Unleashed hammer ranger

I main ranger, and hammer untamed is a spec that is slowly becoming the primary thing I run in PvE. I'll give this fight a try later today if I have a chance, and let you know if there was any low-hanging fruit (maybe something as simple as equipping sword for the leaps) that helps.

Also thematically, there was a cc-heavy ranger build in GW1 known as the "bunny thumper." I don't remember if Anet said it explicitly, but that's pretty much where we get untamed hammer from.

[Nabbut.7480]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:49 PM, Cyninja.2954 said:

I really don't get this approach some players have that they keep dying for hours without ever questioning that MAYBE, just maybe they are doing something wrong.

Ahaha the whole sPvP is wrong ahaha

[Linken.6345]

47 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I main ranger, and hammer untamed is a spec that is slowly becoming the primary thing I run in PvE. I'll give this fight a try later today if I have a chance, and let you know if there was any low-hanging fruit (maybe something as simple as equipping sword for the leaps) that helps.

Also thematically, there was a cc-heavy ranger build in GW1 known as the "bunny thumper." I don't remember if Anet said it explicitly, but that's pretty much where we get untamed hammer from.

if you grab another weapon i would go axe/warhorn for the range to kill shadows and swiftness buff

 

[voltaicbore.8012]

52 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

if you grab another weapon i would go axe/warhorn for the range to kill shadows and swiftness buff

 

Yeah my current build is axe/axe with hammer on swap. Axe ambush in particular hits hard and does a great job on lifesteal from several targets that might not all be neatly bunched up in melee range. Switching the offhand axe for warhorn would just add more ranged pressure and good swift/fury uptime, might be worth it. But frankly I'm thinking such changes will be unnecessary.

[Dadnir.5038]

Personally I think LS2 is alright. The content isn't extremly difficult while the story and secondary characters are fine.

At least it's not as bad as LS3. Some characters developpement and some missions are so cringey in this one that it's unbearable.