Next Expansion additions

[Batalix.2873]

7 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I would firmly disagree SoTo is significantly less than half of HoT

HoT = 4 maps             SoTo = 3 maps (HoT wins by 1)

HoT = 3 raids              SoTo = 2 strikes, 1 convergence, 1 fractal  (Arguably SoTo wins for accessibility)

HoT = Elites and new class    SoTo = spreads weapons across all (HoT wins, but SoTo at least adds something)

HoT = 2 Guild Halls   SoTo = No guild halls (HoT wins)

HoT signature mastery = Gliding       SoTo signature mastery = Skyscale   (Both are game changers and balance out)

HoT Story Vs SoTo story = approx same length. Balances out, although SoTo I'd say has been by far better here

 

So yes HoT wins and is the better and more robust expansion, especially on repeatable content. But it's not over double. It has an extra map, it has the guild halls. It also unlocks LS3, although that is its own separate entity.  It was clearly rushed and unfinished though. And the story was very, very poor. I rate SoTo over HoT for mainline story by far. It doesn't mean SoTo is over priced. It isn't and clearly was successful based on what they did. HoT was just better, but lets not put it in the realms of having stacked amounts of content either. SoTo's biggest issue is being drip fed and not being all together like (most of HoT - not the raids) were.

This comparison is a bit disingenuously "balanced" in favor of SotO, though. 3 raids amounts to three large maps, each with 3-ish bosses and some additional events. That is far and away more content and development work per raid than a single strike. Couching the comparison in "accessibility" doesn't change the fact that we are getting a fraction of the boss encounter design in SotO as compared to HoT. Point to HoT.

I also would not give SotO the point for skyscale mastery track when it lazily stole it from LWS4. It's supposed "signature" status is undermined by the fact that (a) it isn't exclusive to SotO and can be obtained without the expac, (b) involved virtually no real development to merit being called "new content", and (c) introducing probably more anti-design that anything, given that it discourages players from purchasing and populating LWS4 content, invalidating six maps for a two-map gimmick.

We aren't even addressing the amount of design especs involves versus these half-baked weaponsmastery and new weapon implementations.

As a matter of raw resources, HoT is definitely twice the actual output of SotO. The only aspect SotO compares equivalently to is story, approximately; everything else was at least twice the content across the board.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Poormany.4507]

My biggest request: More unique/creative enemy design - The Kryptis and Dragonvoid before them felt too copy-paste design and mechanics-wise. Not a problem with using reskins/reused rigs, but make them creative/unique like HoT and PoF.

Story-wise, I'd like to see: As Anet seems to be going for based on their previous blog posts, I would like to see previously hinted-at storylines wrapped up properly: Malyk, E, Charr society after the Civil War, Norn reclamation of the Far Shiverpeaks/Asura reclamation of the Depths of Tyria, Deep Sea Monster, etc. I really hope they move away from the Wizards' Court because I barely feel any connection/trust for any of them, except for Zojja

Spoiler

and Mabon, who they decided to off for no reason. (What's Anet got against interesting Mursaat characters lol?)

Gameplay-wise: Underwater combat revamp, wall climbing/ninja-like athletics, and/or player housing would be neat additions imo.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Poormany.4507

[Fueki.4753]

I won't argue with the Maths you posted here, but I still feel that SotO isn't worth the price tag they put onto it.

Maybe it will be a bit closer to being worth it, once it's complete. But that depends on how many more things they will lock behind it.

13 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

You are now comparing expansions from games with a subscription to GW2. If we assume only 3 months of game play, those games expansion costs double. If GW2 had a subscription, that might be an argument. The lack (or not lack) of that type of monetization is priced in.

Meanwhile both WoW and FF14 have not only subscriptions but also cash shops (or out of game services which can be purchased) which at the minimum rival or exceed what is offered in GW2.

Let's take a look at what I responded to:

18 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Even now EoD and SotO are far higher value per dollar compared to any other MMORPG.

Since it's any other MMORPG, it should fine to compare non-subscription models with subscription models, as long one also considers the subscription cost as part of the price tag. After all, any other MMORPG should be taken literal.

But if you exclude subscription models, what do you want to compare GW2 to? I can't think of any other MMORPG that is buy to play like GW2.

All the other non-subscriptions MMORPGs I played were free games like Florensia, Eden Eternal or Grand Fantasia.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I won't argue with the Maths you posted here, but I still feel that SotO isn't worth the price tag they put onto it.

Maybe it will be a bit closer to being worth it, once it's complete. But that depends on how many more things they will lock behind it.

We will have to wait and see. I'm not arguing against players disliking or being unhappy, just trying to shift perception that somehow in the past the studio offered a ton more content.

They did to an extent, but not in the dimensions players make up. HoT maps for example were far more complex than any other maps. Quantity wise though the difference between 10 map versus 8.5 maps (the extent of maps the new system would offer in 2.5 years) isn't twice fold and we know HoT had serious crunch towards the end (with missing branching story paths, clearly planed for in the map design).

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Let's take a look at what I responded to:

Since it's any other MMORPG, it should fine to compare non-subscription models with subscription models, as long one also considers the subscription cost as part of the price tag. After all, any other MMORPG should be taken literal.

But if you exclude subscription models, what do you want to compare GW2 to? I can't think of any other MMORPG that is buy to play like GW2.

All the other non-subscriptions MMORPGs I played were free games like Florensia, Eden Eternal or Grand Fantasia.

Pretty much. Those f2p games are what GW2 could be compared to because they are far closer to GW2s revenue model. 

One can compare GW2 to FF14 or WoW or any other MMORPG, after all they all compete with each other. In that case the value judgement goes out the window though, because value wise GW2 beats any competitor.

But value or content per dollar isn't the only metric. If the game doesn't offer the correct content to a player or not sufficient content (a complaint we have been seeing ever since season 1) that has to be pointed out, just not in relationship to cost.

The easiest solution would be to monetize the game more aggressivly, have more developers work on the game and thus offer more content (which is also the basis for past critiscism where revenue was used on GW2 unrelated projects). Yet I feel that too would disapoint part of the player base.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Fueki.4753]

33 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Pretty much. Those f2p games are what GW2 could be compared to because they are far closer to GW2s revenue model.

I don't really think that play for free is anywhere closer to buy to pay than subscriptions are.

If anything, subscriptions would be closer in my opinion, because you have to pay for both models. Free to play games are simply free.

And with free games, there simply isn't a value per unit of money to compare, because you don't pay for it.

41 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

One can compare GW2 to FF14 or WoW or any other MMORPG, after all they all compete with each other. In that case the value judgement goes out the window though, because value wise GW2 beats any competitor.

Does it though?

As it currently stands, ARR and Heavensward are free to play in the trial version of FF14. Which means, there's more content for free in FF14 than in GW2's free core game. Stormblood is supposed to be added to it with the launch of the next expansion as well, which will cause the overall free content in FF14's trial version to be more than the entire content of GW2.

While not as great of a deal than half of FF14 being free, WoW adds all older expansions to the base game. This means, buying WoW and a single subscription gives you several times as much content (everything from the core game up to Shadowlands) as you get when buying all of GW2. And Classic is included in that as well.

But this only compares the amount of things to do. As already stated, if someone finds no value in what is being offered, that's just that.

55 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

If the game doesn't offer the correct content to a player or not sufficient content (a complaint we have been seeing ever since season 1) that has to be pointed out, just not in relationship to cost.

That's a given, as value (outside of purely mathematical realms) always is highly subjective.

Just like Raids, Strikes, and the overly long and overtuned modern fractals are no highly valuable content for me, open world content and story may not be the most sought-after content for cookie cutters and other boon pile aficionados.

59 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The easiest solution would be to monetize the game more aggressivly, have more developers work on the game and thus offer more content (which is also the basis for past critiscism where revenue was used on GW2 unrelated projects). Yet I feel that too would disapoint part of the player base.

And as we can see with SotO, some players feel like the game already is being monetized more aggressively, while not necessarily producing more content as before.

But if it ends up being a monetary success for them, I doubt some customers jumping ship is much of worry to them.

[Cyninja.2954]

42 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And as we can see with SotO, some players feel like the game already is being monetized more aggressively, while not necessarily producing more content as before.

But if it ends up being a monetary success for them, I doubt some customers jumping ship is much of worry to them.

and that is a nice summary of where we are now.

Revenue is up, new players are up, a more sustainable revenue model and content delivery is in place. The only question which remains is will the content quality and quantity be sufficient.

EDIT:

Let me summarize some of the points:

1. the studio has been able to deliver around 3-4 maps worth of content per year. We've never seen more, but we have seen less. Anyone who tracks and factors for development time and content drought will come to this same conclusion. HoT was preceded by 10 months of drought and succeed by 6 months of drought and fixes which makes the total amount of maps released come to 4 per year (10 in 2.5 years) of in part high quality (the core HoT maps) which is pretty much the highest amount of work we've seen (and we know it was with serious crunch and thus not maintainable)

2. cost wise the new integrated living world with mini expansion is a middle ground. It's more expensive than the previous expansion model if one acquired the living world episodes for free after, it cheaper than the former expansions and buying the following living world episodes. It's fairer to new players and distributes the cost to all players equally

3. balance, content, bugs, etc. have been fluctuating the last few years. We've had 1-2 years with absolutely no balance patches, now we are seeing 2-3 per year with to some extent significant reworks. Bugs and content rework have ALWAYS been present, with both HoT and PoF requiring massive reworks in content reward, bugs, design, etc.

How captivating and maintainable this new model is will have to be seen, but to discard it when not even 1 mini expansion has run its course seems premature. I'm looking forward to seeing SotO end, and what ever next mini expansion we get launch 2-3 months after personally. My gripe has been with the quality and quantity of the instanced content and content I do with friends and guild members.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Biziut.3594]

Will let my fantasy go out a little someties, but I guess this topic means just that.

I would love to see us able to use other weight sets. (not mix match between weights) something like setting which template can use heave, medium or light armors at the moment. And while at templates I would love to see QOL that would let us seve looks anong with gliders and mounts, and load them at any moment... this or at least bigger eq templates cap.

More WvW maps would be lovely to see. And any love really for PvP, even tho I barely play it.

OP idea about dyeable effects and lege, infusion auras tweaks, is nice too.

More impactful story decisions. Having our character have "character" like they advertised before release with ferocious, dignity and charming sliders. Unrealistic of course since SotO npc's dont even recognise our genders so cuts on VA must've been big.

Other than that, idk, there are many bigger and smaller ideas with various degree of "reasonable" in my head, so I'll just leave it at that at this moment. ^^

[Kiki.9450]

7 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

and that is a nice summary of where we are now.

Revenue is up, new players are up, a more sustainable revenue model and content delivery is in place. The only question which remains is will the content quality and quantity be sufficient.

EDIT:

Let me summarize some of the points:

1. the studio has been able to deliver around 3-4 maps worth of content per year. We've never seen more, but we have seen less. Anyone who tracks and factors for development time and content drought will come to this same conclusion. HoT was preceded by 10 months of drought and succeed by 6 months of drought and fixes which makes the total amount of maps released come to 4 per year (10 in 2.5 years) of in part high quality (the core HoT maps) which is pretty much the highest amount of work we've seen (and we know it was with serious crunch and thus not maintainable)

2. cost wise the new integrated living world with mini expansion is a middle ground. It's more expensive than the previous expansion model if one acquired the living world episodes for free after, it cheaper than the former expansions and buying the following living world episodes. It's fairer to new players and distributes the cost to all players equally

3. balance, content, bugs, etc. have been fluctuating the last few years. We've had 1-2 years with absolutely no balance patches, now we are seeing 2-3 per year with to some extent significant reworks. Bugs and content rework have ALWAYS been present, with both HoT and PoF requiring massive reworks in content reward, bugs, design, etc.

How captivating and maintainable this new model is will have to be seen, but to discard it when not even 1 mini expansion has run its course seems premature. I'm looking forward to seeing SotO end, and what ever next mini expansion we get launch 2-3 months after personally. My gripe has been with the quality and quantity of the instanced content and content I do with friends and guild members.

Something I wish to add to your post as well: it may take a release or two before we start seeing the fruits of expanding the team too. We don't know how much they've grown by exactly, or how quickly or when these new team members were added in. Through the Veil, they could very well have been in training still. Or they could have been at full capacity. We don't know! 😄 But it does take a while for new folks to adjust to their new workspaces and workflows. What I got out of that recent interview is the hopium I need to really look forward to the next expansion.

[Kiki.9450]

To the question of the actual thread, I don't think there's much that I want that wasn't already brought up. QoL, templates for dyes and other cosmetics, dyable/interchangeable effects, customisable spell effects... yeah yeah yeah, all good stuff. Also, I agree with giving the competitive modes more love, always, as this game is made for more than just PvErs like me. 🙂

What perhaps unrealistic thing that I'd like to see implemented some day is something like WoW's Mage Tower - single-player PvE challenges. Maybe something more realistic (ha?) is that I'd like more SAB. 😄

I also wouldn't mind something beind done with raids. Though what that is I don't know. I just don't think Emboldended mode was it.

[Ashen.2907]

8 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Revenue is up,

Where did you get this? Honestly curious.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Where did you get this? Honestly curious.

Both stated by Josh as well as in the revenue reports which come out every quarter.

[b k.1648]

Henchmen, or some other system with a similar result, to make much of the dead content in the game playable again.

[xRos.8375]

Weirder e specs.

I want condi detonation. Explode all condis you applied on the enemy for a big boom. (Explosion ofcourse)

An espec that puts a chain from the caster to 5 players in the party. All these players will get your buffs. As long as the chain doesn't break (which it can by distance). 

Offensive shield E spec. I will not tolerate any more shield slander. I want to bash people with shields. Maybe even a cannon on the shield 👀

A proper shaman espec would be cool, even if there are only limited forms. Like bear form would grant stability and every 10 seconds would make your next hit do an additional meaty hit. The inner hobo life.

A chain espec that applies cripple between intervals and turns into a stun if not broken by distance.

Or even borrowing stats from team members. Turning 2% of everyone's power into concentration or healing or something.

An espec that would me pilot mech suits that you can swap out like the engineer kits. Doesnt have to be big, heck they can even reuse some of those floating chairs animations. I just want to feel like a crazy engineer.

I want faux boon you can give to the enemy. It acts like a boon but doesn't do anything, just so spellbreaker can feel something again.

These are just the scribblings of a madman don't take this too serious 😁

 

[Ashen.2907]

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Both stated by Josh as well as in the revenue reports which come out every quarter.

Thank you.

The quarterly revenue report for Q3 does not seem to show an increase in revenue. It seems flat relative to the same quarter of '22, which did not have a major paid release.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Cyninja.2954]

4 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Thank you.

The quarterly revenue report for Q3 does not seem to show an increase in revenue. It seems flat relative to the same quarter of '22, which did not have a major paid release.

Q3 2023 is slightly higher than Q2 2023. Q2 2023 is slightly higher than Q1 2023.

I should have been more clear here. The overall trend and direction ever since EoD, which was the first expansion where the following content was part of the expansion, is more stable than in the past.

Revenue is up and/or more stable compared to the previous business model. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Mell.4873]

On 12/24/2023 at 10:30 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i want the next set of weapon specialisations to be water weapons (spear, harpoon gun and trident) on land, with unique fighting styles. i would also like to see a two-player flying mount, and the addition of basic mounted combat in general (the turtle and skyscale fireballs were a good start), along with improvements to gliding to bring it back into business--making the ley line gliding skills available on all maps would be a good start!

 

it would also be nice to have the siege turtle in wvw for a low-supply alternative so pugs can more easily take objectives, which will bring small skirmishes back into the game instead of everything just being zerg versus zerg fights with dozens of guild catapults and shield generators everywhere.

Mounted combat would bring more meaning to the many dismount options that currently go unused in the game. 

I could see picking your main mount feeding into the build you are going for. Even now the bunny is used to CC rift bosses. 

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Mounted combat would bring more meaning to the many dismount options that currently go unused in the game. 

How? I'd say if anything, mounted combat would disincentivize dismounting. I also don't see how dismount options are currently unused.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

How? I'd say if anything, mounted combat would disincentivize dismounting. I also don't see how dismount options are currently unused.

No I don't think so since you can mount and mismount the skyscale in combat. 

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Mell.4873 said:

No I don't think so since you can mount and mismount the skyscale in combat. 

...and that changes what?

[Mell.4873]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...and that changes what?

There is food and a relic for dismounting

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

There is food and a relic for dismounting

That doesn't answer the question though.

[Mell.4873]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That doesn't answer the question though.

Okay.... What are you looking for?

Its just a suggestion you can add your own context to my idea.

 

Most mounts don't have any use pre-combat. Like I mentioned the bunny helps, maybe the rapter for grouping targets but healing from a skimmer is pretty useless. 

Maybe having a mounted skill which you can use into dismount with a cooldown is a good idea. It could even feed off your stats rather than just being random what a mount uses (I thinks it's just Sigils) 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Mell.4873 said:

Okay.... What are you looking for?

I'm looking for a specific explanation how "mount combat" is supposed to somehow significantly incentivize the use of mount engage skills. It just doesn't make sense for me so I'm looking for a description of how it's supposed to work.

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

Most mounts don't have any use pre-combat. Like I mentioned the bunny helps, maybe the rapter for grouping targets but healing from a skimmer is pretty useless. 

And it won't be made any more useful by.... adding mount combat. I think it just has the potential to take away from the actual combat system, similarly to how it's now possible to get event participation by semi afking on a skyscale and pressing 1 a few times while not interacting with anything else at all.

2 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Maybe having a mounted skill which you can use into dismount with a cooldown is a good idea. It could even feed off your stats rather than just being random what mounts use (I thinks it's just Sigils) 

Then that just means you're looking for a buff to mount engage skills (even if it means adding some sort of chain engage skill), doesn't it? Personally, I don't think they need to be buffed. Like "you now give a bit MORE shield or heal once before the combat" doesn't look like it will make a skill into some must use, because healing mostly works during combat and currently every class has access to healing builds using the actual combat system. I think if someone wants to heal others during combat, they should at least partially build for it instead of having dps builds everywhere and then keep remounting-pressing 1 on jackal/skimmer to heal/shield the group.

[Ryuk.6840]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Mounted combat would bring more meaning to the many dismount options that currently go unused in the game. 

I could see picking your main mount feeding into the build you are going for. Even now the bunny is used to CC rift bosses. 

NGL , but giving food to your mount for extra abilities , like more cc ,  by sacrificing its  HP sounds  very nice 

 

Or food that loweres the HP of the user to 1 HP and unlock skills for you mount , just like a new mounted healer or a Buffer just like this Warcreft 3 unit :

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kodo_Beast_(Warcraft_III)

 

Edit: Imagine Bosses that allow you to strip their armor parts/lower the defiance bar by pulling with the turtle (fishing meter) , and afterwards  using Raptors to continues bite them , while they are knocked down (like the Neon Evangelion fight with Asuka and the Adams Units)

Edited December 26, 2023 by Ryuk.6840

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I'm looking for a specific explanation how "mount combat" is supposed to somehow significantly incentivize the use of mount engage skills. It just doesn't make sense for me so I'm looking for a description of how it's supposed to work.

It just an idea, we already have it for the Skyscale

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And it won't be made any more useful by.... adding mount combat. I think it just has the potential to take away from the actual combat system, similarly to how it's now possible to get event participation by semi afking on a skyscale and pressing 1 a few times while not interacting with anything else at all.

I don't believe I have seen anyone afk an event in Skyscale. I have seen people afk by just standing in the event not doing anything. This afk problem isn't really a mount issue, even with the turtle mount early one it was fine. We already have Waystations for CC so this is fine. Like I said people use the bunny for cc as well how would mounting in combat on a bunny be any different than an electromagnetic pulse action key? 

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Then that just means you're looking for a buff to mount engage skills (even if it means adding some sort of chain engage skill), doesn't it? Personally, I don't think they need to be buffed. Like "you now give a bit MORE shield or heal once before the combat" doesn't look like it will make a skill into some must use, because healing mostly works during combat and currently every class has access to healing builds using the actual combat system. I think if someone wants to heal others during combat, they should at least partially build for it instead of having dps builds everywhere and then keep remounting-pressing 1 on jackal/skimmer to heal/shield the group.

Much like CC you have to select skills or even classes that have a lot of it. With mounted combat something like a Deadeye could now healing during open world event by jumping on a skimmer when people get low. 

I mean come one we have some vertical progression in the game, and it is in the form of Masteries. Look at the jade bot, it gave a massive vitality boost to low health classes like Mesmer and Elementalist, without it Raids/Strikes/Fractals with either class becomes much scarier.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mell.4873