Next Expansion additions

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

What do you guys want to see?

What I would like to see is more infusions.   Dyeable infusions.  Dyeable/swappable aura's from legendarys.  Dyeable weapons. Visuals for trinkets and rings/amulets that are dyeable.  If the entire expansion was just this I would buy it.

 

[WRay.2391]

Aquabreather rework/legendary, maybe some underwater content. Separate infusion stat from visuals and put visuals in own slot. Maybe legendary infusion, but I have no idea what it should cost if implemented ... Main thing is compelling story and map design though.

[Fueki.4753]

Does being available on Amazon EU count?

Does a price tag that properly reflects the content the expansion launches with count?

[BumboJumbo.1308]

52 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Does a price tag that properly reflects the content the expansion launches with count?

I don't get it, could you explain?

 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Does being available on Amazon EU count?

Does a price tag that properly reflects the content the expansion launches with count?

the entire expansion costs about as much as eating a takeout meal for a single person these days, and you only have to pay that once a year. i'll never understand players thinking its somehow expensive for what you get, when its one of the cheapest video games out there (and still higher quality than most).

Edited December 24, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i want the next set of weapon specialisations to be water weapons (spear, harpoon gun and trident) on land, with unique fighting styles. i would also like to see a two-player flying mount, and the addition of basic mounted combat in general (the turtle and skyscale fireballs were a good start), along with improvements to gliding to bring it back into business--making the ley line gliding skills available on all maps would be a good start!

 

it would also be nice to have the siege turtle in wvw for a low-supply alternative so pugs can more easily take objectives, which will bring small skirmishes back into the game instead of everything just being zerg versus zerg fights with dozens of guild catapults and shield generators everywhere.

Edited December 24, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

I don't get it, could you explain?

How about you compare it with HoT and PoF? They launched with four/five maps, better masteries, a completed story and (mostly) fully developed Elite specializations. With the following Living World season, they ended up with 10/11 maps. All that for 30€.

SotO launched with one map, one of the masteries is just re-packaging Skyscale, two beats of a story that is being drip-fed to the players. Even once the year is completed we will end up with just two maps. The complete story may not even be as much as Pof's or Hot's. I don't think this is worth 25€.

5€ is too small of a price difference for something that isn't even half of what other expansions offered before.

Even EoD offered more, despite lacking a Living World Season.

And that's ignoring the on-going drop in quality since Champions.

37 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

the entire expansion costs about as much as eating a takeout meal for a single person these days, and you only have to pay that once a year.

I don't know how expensive your food is, but I can get by with 5€ to 10€ per day.

37 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i'll never understand players thinking its somehow expensive for what you get, when its one of the cheapest video games out there (and still higher quality than most).

If you simply compare it to other games, you are doing it wrong. You ought to compare it to what they previously offered in this game. That means, you ought to compare SotO to HoT, PoF and even EoD.

If they offer far less than half of what was offered before, the price tag should reflect that difference, instead of being merely 5€ less.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Balsa.3951]

6 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

What do you guys want to see?

What I would like to see is more infusions.   Dyeable infusions.  Dyeable/swappable aura's from legendarys.  Dyeable weapons. Visuals for trinkets and rings/amulets that are dyeable.  If the entire expansion was just this I would buy it.

 

what we want see is probably already to late to ask for next xpac.

what's likely we get is improved ui. thats something  with all emotes and stuff we have extra now can help.

for fun what they could add not sure game feels complete and the stuff missing feels to big for anet to do.

[Cyninja.2954]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

How about you compare it with HoT and PoF? They launched with four/five maps, better masteries, a completed story and (mostly) fully developed Elite specializations. With the following Living World season, they ended up with 10/11 maps. All that for 30€.

SotO launched with one map, one of the masteries is just re-packaging Skyscale, two beats of a story that is being drip-fed to the players. Even once the year is completed we will end up with just two maps. The complete story may not even be as much as Pof's or Hot's. I don't think this is worth 25€.

5€ is too small of a price difference for something that isn't even half of what other expansions offered before.

You accounted for the 8 or 6 years since HoT or PoF? What country do you live in that the global Inflation passed you by? 

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Even EoD offered more, despite lacking a Living World Season.

and people where still whinning and complaining.

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And that's ignoring the on-going drop in quality since Champions.

I'd argue that the quality increased over Champions, drastically.

I'll agree that HoT and PoF were overall more impactful and more meaningful. They were definitely more buggy and needed significantly more reworks and fixes though.

They were also critiscized at their time.

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I don't know how expensive your food is, but I can get by with 5€ to 10€ per day.

If you simply compare it to other games, you are doing it wrong. You ought to compare it to what they previously offered in this game. That means, you ought to compare SotO to HoT, PoF and even EoD.

If they offer far less than half of what was offered before, the price tag should reflect that difference, instead of being merely 5€ less.

Both can be true.

Agreed, the deal is not as good as before. HoT and PoF remain probably the cheapest and highest value per dollar in the MMO space even at their time (which still didn't save them from scrutiny).

That doesn't mean the other isn't true either. Even now EoD and SotO are far higher value per dollar compared to any other MMORPG.

Players complaining about price are free to try their luck with the competitors in the space. I doubt the lack in satisfaction will be price/cost related though.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Randulf.7614]

I don't want to see anything about more dyeable items-- it's too big an undertaking that would probably break the game and make a massive patch based on what they said officially. They also aren't expansion selling features. Infusions are rewards are fine, but they'd likely come anyway.

- I want more maps, underwater revamps, more boat stuff, lizard climbing/cave exploring mount, polymock,

- I want new areas within the Tyria continent like north of Maguuma, The Depths, The Unending Ocean, Janthir Isles and the rest of the Cantha map which shamefully underused

- I want to see the return of areas like FIssure of Woe.

- I want to see more content like Forging Steel and more strike bosses like in IBS and less reused story instances as strikes

- I want fractals that explore the mysterious ancient history of Tyria. Like Cliffside did. And less fractals like whatever that mess of a one they released with Gyala 

- I want big cool World bosses like Tequatl and Vinewarth that use mechanics and aren't obscured by visual noise. And revamps to exisiting ones like Claw of Jormag and Karka Queen

 

[Dibit.6259]

4 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

 

- I want more maps, underwater revamps, more boat stuff, lizard climbing/cave exploring mount, polymock,

 

This climbing lizard/cave exploration sounds interesting. Or even may an frog? Like it have a target leap/touge that's like the grappling gun effect as the Eod fractal mechanic.

Like others in the post I think a rework on underwater content would be good too.

In terms of lore maybe an exploration to discover the original of humans since the are from another world (aliens?)

[Randulf.7614]

Just now, Dibit.6259 said:

This climbing lizard/cave exploration sounds interesting. Or even may an frog? Like it have a target leap/touge that's like the grappling gun effect as the Eod fractal mechanic.

Like others in the post I think a rework on underwater content would be good too.

In terms of lore maybe an exploration to discover the original of humans since the are from another world (aliens?)

Frog would be an interesting twist. The lizard I as thinking because it could stick to walls, but also have a mastery for squeezing through cracks or small creavsses underground. There's always going to br crossover with other mounts of course, but I think they could do just enough with it to make a bit unique

I'm not in favour of discovering the "home world". That's always felt a bit weird as it is. Having said that, see the other lands across the sea would be fun. We've been quite condensed for much of the game's life. I'd like the game to feel less "small"

[Fueki.4753]

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

You accounted for the 8 or 6 years since HoT or PoF? What country do you live in that the global Inflation passed you by?

The inflation in these years shouldn't cause something that should at most be 15€ to cost 25€.

And 15€ is a chunky price tag for SotO, considering it's half the price of HoT or PoF, while the content is significantly less than half of the content in HoT or PoF.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

and people where still whinning and complaining.

I'm aware that people, including me, weren't too happy with the quality of EoD. Yet EoD still offers more for its price than SotO does.

4 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Even now EoD and SotO are far higher value per dollar compared to any other MMORPG.

I don't think so. While I can say anything about SotO, EoD wasn't my cup of cocoa.

I got a lot more of playing Shadowbringers than I got out of EoD. PoF on the other hands was more enjoyable to me than most part of Shadowbringers, even though I hate that Balthazar was turned into a villain for no reason other than 'no dragon this time'. But I'm also one of those who think that Heavensward was the pinnacle of FF14. And that's despite them killing off the best man in the entire game (Haurchefant).

Similarly, WoW expansions considered bad offered more to me than EoD did. most Cataclysm zones (including Vashj'ir, which many people seem to hate), the Horde leveling campaign of WoD and the troll campaigns in BfA were more enjoyable to me than EoD.

But then again, value always is subjective. What I consider fun is not what everyone else enjoys.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Randulf.7614]

I would firmly disagree SoTo is significantly less than half of HoT

HoT = 4 maps             SoTo = 3 maps (HoT wins by 1)

HoT = 3 raids              SoTo = 2 strikes, 1 convergence, 1 fractal  (Arguably SoTo wins for accessibility)

HoT = Elites and new class    SoTo = spreads weapons across all (HoT wins, but SoTo at least adds something)

HoT = 2 Guild Halls   SoTo = No guild halls (HoT wins)

HoT signature mastery = Gliding       SoTo signature mastery = Skyscale   (Both are game changers and balance out)

HoT Story Vs SoTo story = approx same length. Balances out, although SoTo I'd say has been by far better here

 

So yes HoT wins and is the better and more robust expansion, especially on repeatable content. But it's not over double. It has an extra map, it has the guild halls. It also unlocks LS3, although that is its own separate entity.  It was clearly rushed and unfinished though. And the story was very, very poor. I rate SoTo over HoT for mainline story by far. It doesn't mean SoTo is over priced. It isn't and clearly was successful based on what they did. HoT was just better, but lets not put it in the realms of having stacked amounts of content either. SoTo's biggest issue is being drip fed and not being all together like (most of HoT - not the raids) were.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[Tiviana.2650]

Wing 8 , a slider to cut down players spell effects from full effect all the way down to zero effect. its really gross how you cant even see whats on the screen because of all the spell effects ,infusions , armor and weapon effects, glows , strobes, smoke, lightning, on and on. Please give players a slider from 0 to 10 , I truly wonder do you devs understand how visually cluttered this game has become? It hurts my eyes, and my brain.

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I would firmly disagree SoTo is significantly less than half of HoT

HoT = 4 maps             SoTo = 3 maps (HoT wins by 1)

HoT = 3 raids              SoTo = 2 strikes, 1 convergence, 1 fractal  (Arguably SoTo wins for accessibility)

HoT = Elites and new class    SoTo = spreads weapons across all (HoT wins, but SoTo at least adds something)

HoT = 2 Guild Halls   SoTo = No guild halls (HoT wins)

HoT signature mastery = Gliding       SoTo signature mastery = Skyscale   (Both are game changers and balance out)

HoT Story Vs SoTo story = approx same length. Balances out, although SoTo I'd say has been by far better here

 

So yes HoT wins and is the better and more robust expansion, especially on repeatable content. But it's not over double. It has an extra map, it has the guild halls. It also unlocks LS3, although that is its own separate entity.  It was clearly rushed and unfinished though. And the story was very, very poor. I rate SoTo over HoT for mainline story by far. It doesn't mean SoTo is over priced. It isn't and clearly was successful based on what they did. HoT was just better, but lets not put it in the realms of having stacked amounts of content either. SoTo's biggest issue is being drip fed and not being all together like (most of HoT - not the raids) were.

I think that you need to include LS3 on the HoT side of the comparison if you are going to include post release maps and features on the SotO side.

That said, I dont think that SotO is over priced even if I think that it was absolutely awful to the point that I couldnt bring myself to complete even the first release. I bought it to be able to join my guildies in the new strikes once per week (some times less frequently). The story, the playable content, and the features are all terrible (and the strikes are not great, but I love hanging with my guildies anyway).

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The inflation in these years shouldn't cause something that should at most be 15€ to cost 25€.

And 15€ is a chunky price tag for SotO, considering it's half the price of HoT or PoF, while the content is significantly less than half of the content in HoT or PoF.

That's not how inflation works, but I'll do you one better, I'll let you see what these values actually are adjusted for inflation.

Let's go with HoT: those 50 Euros 2015 are actually 62 Euros today (dollars it's 50 -> 65)

https://www.inflationtool.com/euro/2015-to-present-value?amount=50&year2=2023&frequency=yearly

So even if it was half the content or less, the price asked for for SotO is actually 40% (25/62) of HoT.

Now you can still argue that you don't feel this has the same value, and that's fair, but that % of number is getting smaller. It might shrink even more if I start comparing content drought to content delivered.

Where it behaves differently is if we factor for "free" living world episodes versus payed living world episodes versus fused lw episodes with mini expansions.

I'll make this short: if you consider the entirety of LWS3 free, you are getting a ton more content per buck (not that much content though. LWS3 ran until July 25th, 2017 which means, adding in HoT, 10 maps in 2.5 years.). If you consider the entirety of LWS3 as cost, this comes out to 15 Euro more, which by now would be around 18-20 Euro and the price for HoT+LWS3 adds up to around 83-85 Euros after inflation which results in SotO costing around 29% of that. Fun fact, if you add in the next mini expansion and assume a cost of 30 Euro, you'd still be far below those 80 Euros.

Quote

I'm aware that people, including me, weren't too happy with the quality of EoD. Yet EoD still offers more for its price than SotO does.

and even within that 1.5 year inflation already means an adjustment of almost 2 Euros.

So SotO comes out as 78% (25/32) the cost of EoD (for Euros, slightly more for dollars).

Here another inflation calculator where you can use the exact month, this time for dollars: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Inflation is a kitten, especially when it goes by unnoticed but everything else gets more expensive just that little bit, continuously and a bit more the last few years.

Quote

 

I don't think so. While I can say anything about SotO, EoD wasn't my cup of cocoa.

I got a lot more of playing Shadowbringers than I got out of EoD. PoF on the other hands was more enjoyable to me than most part of Shadowbringers, even though I hate that Balthazar was turned into a villain for no reason other than 'no dragon this time'. But I'm also one of those who think that Heavensward was the pinnacle of FF14. And that's despite them killing off the best man in the entire game (Haurchefant).

Similarly, WoW expansions considered bad offered more to me than EoD did. most Cataclysm zones (including Vashj'ir, which many people seem to hate), the Horde leveling campaign of WoD and the troll campaigns in BfA were more enjoyable to me than EoD.

But then again, value always is subjective. What I consider fun is not what everyone else enjoys.

 

You are now comparing expansions from games with a subscription to GW2. If we assume only 3 months of game play, those games expansion costs double. If GW2 had a subscription, that might be an argument. The lack (or not lack) of that type of monetization is priced in.

Meanwhile both WoW and FF14 have not only subscriptions but also cash shops (or out of game services which can be purchased) which at the minimum rival or exceed what is offered in GW2.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Randulf.7614]

25 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I think that you need to include LS3 on the HoT side of the comparison if you are going to include post release maps and features on the SotO side.

That said, I dont think that SotO is over priced even if I think that it was absolutely awful to the point that I couldnt bring myself to complete even the first release. I bought it to be able to join my guildies in the new strikes once per week (some times less frequently). The story, the playable content, and the features are all terrible (and the strikes are not great, but I love hanging with my guildies anyway).

LS3 is post release HoT and a separate purchase for new players. Nayos, convergences and fractal are part of main release SoTo - even if they are spread out - and part of the one time cost. Including LS3 would make for an incorrect comparison

Otherwise raids and most of the legendaries would need excluding from HoT as they werent part of the main release either (although by the time 2nd gen legendaries were done, we were well past PoF and LS4, so prob I shouldn't include those)

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

romance option O_O
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what? My toon ain't getting any younger...

[TheNurgle.4825]

• Player's housing – current Home instances is not home
• Around 30% of resources from new expansion used on QoL improvements or other polish – check Jade bot, fishing baits in your bags is annoying, streamline currencies, let me turn off certain infusion effects, put leylines and updrafts to some core maps
• Add new world bosses
• Rework boons
• Story where they do not kill great characters – poor Mabon and poor innocent Irja
• New masteries with "vertical" progression – Convergence mastery is fun and it can kill you
• New HUB with access to any strike/raid/DRM/convergence/Dragonstrom and so on – I would be fine with it being lounge pass with future content being added there
• Some solo challenges – some ppl solo strikes or fractals so why not do it official with achievement section, a lot of opportunities here like PvE survival, leggy bosses challenges and so on
• More legendary items – sieges for WvW, infusion, fishing rod (just extra fishing power and skin), jade bot core and some more

 

[Myror.7521]

Im a simple man ..... all i want is at least something realy new for PvP !

[Linken.6345]

10 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

Im a simple man ..... all i want is at least something realy new for PvP !

It is dead Jim let it go.

[Ashen.2907]

4 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

LS3 is post release HoT and a separate purchase for new players. Nayos, convergences and fractal are part of main release SoTo - even if they are spread out - and part of the one time cost. Including LS3 would make for an incorrect comparison

Otherwise raids and most of the legendaries would need excluding from HoT as they werent part of the main release either (although by the time 2nd gen legendaries were done, we were well past PoF and LS4, so prob I shouldn't include those)

"Spread out" means post release.

I got LS3 included in the price of HoT. It was available to everyone  at no cost over that of HoT. The fact that some chose to not accept that pricing combo does not change the fact that it was available.

So, add up everything that was offered to those buying HoT including ten maps released over time, raids, etc. 

For SotO it is less than half as many maps released over time.

SotO is essentially a smaller LW season released in a manner similar to, if not exactly the same as, previous seasons. That is fine. I think this is a valid approach to content release. But trying to say that content that is released over an extended period of time for SotO should be included in the measure for that expansion while saying that other expansions should not be measured in the same way is a bit off to say the least.

And, again, I have no issue with HOW SotO is being released, just with WHAT is being released.

[Ashantara.8731]

The price isn't the issue, the quality and quantity is, in particular the huge gap in both categories between the SotO core release and the first update. People are worried, and for good reason.

[Ryuk.6840]

2 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

Im a simple man ..... all i want is at least something realy new for PvP !

A redesign of of the pseudo-moba map , into a full one , with locked utilities and talents trees to lower the TTK for the first mins .

Or evolved beasts , that change appearance over time , and the end unlock a pseudo-normal form (a more feral char)  , with your current talents/utilities/specs/weapons.

People can collect in-game Currency to speed up the evolution , of try to boycot it from reaching the final pseudo form (like Plague Inc)

 

Edit:The first few forms can be an outdoor Activity for people to test it out 

And the unmovable towers are replaced with huge apes that as you progress with the time machine and change forms , they too get  older and bigger and don't get afraid to attack the enemies ape , or more easily get  blinded/ranged reflected/attacks can be blocked  , leaving their friendly player unprotected  

Edited December 25, 2023 by Ryuk.6840