Guardian Dragon Maw attack - a bit too OP?

[TomUjain.8206]

Hey guys want your view on this because maybe its just me,

As a scrapper main I have a really hard time with this guardian elite skill. Once I am able to see the guardian proc it I can prepare and avoid it however when they do manage to pull me into it or I fail to see it -- how on earth are you supposed to get out of it?

Here is why I think it is unfair (unless you have a teleport skill like shadowstep)

Scenario 1) - I get caught in the trap, I try to roll away, get knocked down - I try to roll again - get knocked down and have tn endure all the burst until the maw goes away as I am unable to use skills. By this point I am normally dead.

Scenario 2 ) - I stand in the middle of the maw and spam all my condi remover skills and pray I am still standing at the end of it.

How are you supposed to counter this? I do try to avoid it whenever possible but there are times you get sucked in and boom, that it is over. The only counter I have found to this (as engineer main) is Drink elixir S - which gives you 3 secs invulnerability and you can walk out of it with no problems.

Any insight into this would be massively appreciated,

Regards,

Tom

Edited December 30, 2023 by TomUjain.8206

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, TomUjain.8206 said:

As a scrapper main

get banned

[vilesoldier.9826]

5 hours ago, TomUjain.8206 said:

...

 

Yes, dragon's maw is def a strong elite, and with DH's now regularly taking hammer, learning how to deal with ward effects are important. Especially since scrappers and wards don't mix well.

 

You've already pointed out one trick, but there are a few others with varying levels of difficulty to perform correctly. 

1) Dodge/walk out of trap before it activates (difficulty: *****)

The animation for the elite has a slight delay between the animation starting and the ward effect being set, so if you're positioned right or have very fast reactions, it is possible to escape without burning a stunbreak or invuln. 

 

2) Stunbreak as you walk into the ward (difficulty: **)

This is the most consistent way to escape wards, and just takes some practice with timing. Essentially if you walk into a ward and stunbreak right as you are knocked down (while keeping the w-key pressed) you can escape just fine.

The practice is timing the stunbreak but also assessing the trap situation, ex) if there's also a Procession of blades trap (spinny blades) or Test of Faith (spiky damage ring)

 

3) Block and pray (difficulty: *)

If you're truly out of options, then you're left to tango with the guard inside the ward. Prepare your blocks, cleanses, and get ready to think fast. Not an easy position to be in, unfortunately.

 

Use at your own discretion, awareness is your friend, but also realize getting caught every once in a while & blowing up happens to the best of us. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

**Stab works great too vv

Edited December 31, 2023 by vilesoldier.9826

[Kuya.6495]

Stability?

[Flowki.7194]

5 fking DHs in one game rofl....

FIVE.

Oh and the usual off peak sweaty scrappers. Makes a change from the 0 skill 3 button condi builds, I guess.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Sweetbread.3678]

Honestly? Just find a better pvp game. Anet will never meaningfully nerf the game's brain-dead specs because: 1. they gave up on pvp a long time ago, and 2. they'll never up the skill requirement of the game's "casual" specs, because they can't risk alienating the portion of the game's population that's far and away most likely to be too stupid to figure out how to work the economy and thus needs to spend real money buying gems (probably for some dumbkitten catboy outfit no less).

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 hour ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Honestly? Just find a better pvp game. Anet will never meaningfully nerf the game's brain-dead specs because: 1. they gave up on pvp a long time ago, and 2. they'll never up the skill requirement of the game's "casual" specs, because they can't risk alienating the portion of the game's population that's far and away most likely to be too stupid to figure out how to work the economy and thus needs to spend real money buying gems (probably for some dumbkitten catboy outfit no less).

 

So, if I can genuinely ask, what's keeping you here? sunk cost?

Edited December 31, 2023 by vilesoldier.9826

[ccccc.4963]

42 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Honestly? Just find a better pvp game. Anet will never meaningfully nerf the game's brain-dead specs because: 1. they gave up on pvp a long time ago, and 2. they'll never up the skill requirement of the game's "casual" specs, because they can't risk alienating the portion of the game's population that's far and away most likely to be too stupid to figure out how to work the economy and thus needs to spend real money buying gems (probably for some dumbkitten catboy outfit no less).

No amount of balancing specs will put mechanically bad players on an even playing field in a pvp game BTW 

[Lonecap.4105]

It’s really simple, if you see DH on enemy team, swap in some stability access.

[Sweetbread.3678]

40 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

So, if I can genuinely ask, what's keeping you here? sunk cost?

I don't pvp anymore.

[vilesoldier.9826]

9 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

I don't pvp anymore.

 

Oh sick, sick. When'd you quit though? or is it more of like a on-and-off thing whenever a new patch or update drops?

[Sweetbread.3678]

6 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

Oh sick, sick. When'd you quit though? or is it more of like a on-and-off thing whenever a new patch or update drops?

When I finally made peace with the fact that it was never going to be anything but an abandoned daycare center for simpletons who couldn't get carried hard enough by a horribly balanced/faceroll af rock/paper/scissors build in literally any other game. Glad you're enjoying it though.

[ccccc.4963]

Lots of 0apm boomers lingering for their gw nostalgia 

[vilesoldier.9826]

apologies OP for derailing, communicating with the ghosts of guild wars-past is always enlightening. 🔮

Hope the advice helps~

[Saiyan.1704]

7 hours ago, TomUjain.8206 said:

Hey guys want your view on this because maybe its just me,

As a scrapper main I have a really hard time with this guardian elite skill. Once I am able to see the guardian proc it I can prepare and avoid it however when they do manage to pull me into it or I fail to see it -- how on earth are you supposed to get out of it?

Here is why I think it is unfair (unless you have a teleport skill like shadowstep)

Scenario 1) - I get caught in the trap, I try to roll away, get knocked down - I try to roll again - get knocked down and have tn endure all the burst until the maw goes away as I am unable to use skills. By this point I am normally dead.

Scenario 2 ) - I stand in the middle of the maw and spam all my condi remover skills and pray I am still standing at the end of it.

Hey, I'm just a casual tryhard G3/Plat1 Guardian main here. Stay awhile and listen.

For your scenario#1

• You HAVE to dodge ASAP when you initially hear or see the animation of the trap trigger. Trap animation and sound are very telegraphed and it IS possible to dodge 100% of the time the moment you activate a DH trap randomly. If you have trouble with immediately reacting to dodge a trap, I recommend practicing (preferably with a friend in 1v1 custom duel servers) to improve your reaction speed. (if you don't have dodge second nature, I recommend you keybinding your dodge button near a finger such as "c" key or "v" key (or both, like how I have it because I have butter fingers). Play 100 pvp games to engrave the knew keybindings to muscle memory. For the average player this is just half a seasons worth of games.

Scenario#2

• If you're fighting a DH that is condi oriented, it's not the best matchup for an Engi unless you're Holo.... but that's neither here nor there. The #1 tool Engi Scrapper/Holo has is MOBILITY. You, hilariously, run circles around a DH.. all day, throughout the entire match. All a DH has is Judges Intervention, F2, and maybe sword/sword shadowsteps. Even with these tools you out run them. Especially if you have >>superspeed<<. Just spam Nades at range and never be near melee range unless you have a stun + gyro burst shenanigans. Bait out the DH's F3 up until he uses Renewed Focus... then burst him after that ends.
  
  Save Elixir S as the last resort. When you use it, the DH is either at 20% during this time for you to come up with a final burst on him or it's time for you to run run run. There's nothing wrong with paying it safe and LoS'ing his Longbow (if he's using it).
  
  To be honest most Engi's don't even bother with a decently good DH. They just rotate against easier targets, like a mesmer, or necro, or literally any other class that doesn't have an obnoxious amount of blocks. You can certainly be a better 1v1 player against a DH but fighting a DH 1v1 should NOT be your main priority ever.

[maxwelgm.4315]

Aside from what others suggested, keep in mind a DH with elite trap only has a single virtue cycle before running out of blocks - yes it's a very strong elite but they're mostly sitting ducks to being focused on if they fail the one burst.

[TomUjain.8206]

12 hours ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

 

Yes, dragon's maw is def a strong elite, and with DH's now regularly taking hammer, learning how to deal with ward effects are important. Especially since scrappers and wards don't mix well.

 

You've already pointed out one trick, but there are a few others with varying levels of difficulty to perform correctly. 

1) Dodge/walk out of trap before it activates (difficulty: *****)

The animation for the elite has a slight delay between the animation starting and the ward effect being set, so if you're positioned right or have very fast reactions, it is possible to escape without burning a stunbreak or invuln. 

 

2) Stunbreak as you walk into the ward (difficulty: **)

This is the most consistent way to escape wards, and just takes some practice with timing. Essentially if you walk into a ward and stunbreak right as you are knocked down (while keeping the w-key pressed) you can escape just fine.

The practice is timing the stunbreak but also assessing the trap situation, ex) if there's also a Procession of blades trap (spinny blades) or Test of Faith (spiky damage ring)

 

3) Block and pray (difficulty: *)

If you're truly out of options, then you're left to tango with the guard inside the ward. Prepare your blocks, cleanses, and get ready to think fast. Not an easy position to be in, unfortunately.

 

Use at your own discretion, awareness is your friend, but also realize getting caught every once in a while & blowing up happens to the best of us. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

**Stab works great too vv

Very helpful post, thank you!

[Balsa.3951]

DH main here did u tried not moving after the maw? its quite a trait off for DH vs renew focus.

we loose all f1 f2f3 refresh and invunabiliy

i personal to chicken to run maw

[Ron.9806]

Sounds like a skill issue.

[Curennos.9307]

Not really. Fighting DH comes down to figuring out where their traps are (not hard, they tend to either stand right in them, or place them between themselves and an enemy), dealing with the heavy hitters (which are actually nicely telegraphed, IMO, compared to other hit impact skills in the game), and dealing with the f1 because it's unblockable and you just need to save a dodge or something that isn't a block for it. The f1 spear is what lets them pull you into traps, or pull you out of a block if you're in a trap and blocking.

It does feel overwhelming when first running into it though because it feels like there's no way to deal with it, but with a bit of practice it becomes much easier.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Curennos.9307

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Dodge immediately. That Dh isn't running renewed focus, so you win that if they whiff maw.

[Brokensunday.4098]

blocks stab stun break dodge out port out invul somany ways to survive and deafeat the one trick pony

[Dadnir.5038]

• Equip tool kit, use skill#4 then walk out.
• Use elixir X
• Hammer skill#3 and 4 should work as well.
• defense field (bulwark gyro's tool belt skill)
• ... etc.

[Sahne.6950]

its 2024....  just use a invuln xD