Balance Petition: Stop the +/-1k Tweaks and Focus on Bugs, Unused Weapons, and Unused Traits

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

CMC, all those +/- 1k dps changes need to stop for a bit... There are so many bugged skills, unused weapons, and unused traits that you could legitimately spend a year at least on those alone. What's more is that the overall player base would be far happier with those kinds of changes rather than seeing these DPS mood swings.

Remember when you guys made those teeny tiny buffs to Warrior OH Mace: "Please play this weapon." You know what didn't happen? Warrior's playing OH mace. Do you want to know why? The +/- 1k dps type changes without addressing the reasons why players don't play the weapon to begin with.

Things like Rush going the completely wrong direction for +10 years now...

Please, put the +/- dps balancing aside for a bit and focus on long running bugs, unused weapons, and unused traits with meaningful changes. 

There will be plenty of time to get back to the +/- style of balancing later, but there are some long running issues that remain unchanged for over a decade now.

Edited January 18 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Beddo.1907]

Moving resources from the +/- probably won't change much in terms of the big balance patches. They are just simple changes that just shift the meta a little.

[Infinity.2876]

I would like meaningful changes too old and unused content, but I think they should concentrate on making new content good because that is how they are going to make money at the end of the day.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, Infinity.2876 said:

I would like meaningful changes too old and unused content, but I think they should concentrate on making new content good because that is how they are going to make money at the end of the day.

I hear you on that. But also, at some point things that were left behind need to be revisited. Aren't Balance patches focused on already released content? So, by their nature Balance patches aren't about making new content good, they're about making existing content better. In that vein that should include fixing long running issues and underused portions of classes just as much as the little +/- for meta shifting changes.

[Infinity.2876]

16 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I hear you on that. But also, at some point things that were left behind need to be revisited. Aren't Balance patches focused on already released content? So, by their nature Balance patches aren't about making new content good, they're about making existing content better. In that vein that should include fixing long running issues and underused portions of classes just as much as the little +/- for meta shifting changes.

That is why I picked the quarterly one.

I do think there are several obvious areas that haven't been fixed that aren't just profession based. For example the heart in EoD where you can rescue invisible drowning people.

But when it comes to professions with the amount of traits, weapons, and specs that are currently in the game I begin to wonder whether balance is ever truly obtainable without limiting the amount of options in the game which I do not think is a good idea. Based on the idea that balance is unobtainable then boosting the QoL of the different unused weapons and traits would be a logical idea. However, - as is the custom of many games - the developers clearly believe that balance is obtainable and the community believes the opposite. And I think, as with many conflicting ideas, the solution is somewhere in the middle.

Edited January 17 by Infinity.2876

[DanAlcedo.3281]

So many hopes and dreams. 

So little changes. 

All I want is fun gameplay and lots of build craft options.... 

But nahhhhh. Benchmarks is where it's at. 

[Phyb.6704]

Squish the numbers back down so content actually requires some effort. 
The small dps adjustments mean NOTHING when the numbers are way to high as a whole.

Focus on fixing all the useless kitten so we have more choices.

The small boon changes mean nothing.......
At this point I dont really want to take any support besides a perma alac barrier scourge that spams condi clense with each barrier and a quickness herald. They cover all boons + condi cleanse + barrier + heals. You can adjust dps all you want but nothing is really worth taking in regards to support over those two accept maybe adding a druid if its a 10man. IMO. 

Edited January 17 by ohericoseo.4316

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, ohericoseo.4316 said:

Squish the numbers back down so content actually requires some effort. 
The small dps adjustments mean NOTHING when the numbers are way to high as a whole.

I'd love to see numbers being squished back down to 20k at maximum for DPS builds and 15k at most for supports.

But that is never going to happen.

[Voyant.1327]

18 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

So many hopes and dreams. 

So little changes. 

All I want is fun gameplay and lots of build craft options.... 

But nahhhhh. Benchmarks is where it's at. 

This is the perfect response.

Players: Fun please!

Devs: So according to this guide this class is outperforming, nevermind the classes doing more damage, this one needs a nerf because its pink. 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I gotta say that I run offhand mace on my warrior all the time. On my power core:

First weapon set is sword/axe
Second is hammer
Third is mace/mace.

On condizeker i run:
Sword/Torch
Mace/Shield
Third is axe/mace.

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

I gotta say that I run offhand mace on my warrior all the time. On my power core:

First weapon set is sword/axe
Second is hammer
Third is mace/mace.

On condizeker i run:
Sword/Torch
Mace/Shield
Third is axe/mace.

I also run dagger/sword + x/focus on my power chrono instead of dagger/sword + greatsword because its more fun to me.

That doesn't change the fact that greatsword would deal more dps tho. Same as maces on your set are probably not the best option but you prefer the gameplay. 

Just because someone likes X more than Y because of gameplay, it doesn't justify that X is dealing low damage compared to Y.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

5 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I also run dagger/sword + x/focus on my power chrono instead of dagger/sword + greatsword because its more fun to me.

That doesn't change the fact that greatsword would deal more dps tho. Same as maces on your set are probably not the best option but you prefer the gameplay. 

Just because someone likes X more than Y because of gameplay, it doesn't justify that X is dealing low damage compared to Y.

You clearly missed the joke there..

[SeTect.5918]

4 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

You clearly missed the joke there..

oh, my bad, sorry

[Sobx.1758]

No, do both.

23 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

So many hopes and dreams. 

So little changes. 

All I want is fun gameplay and lots of build craft options.... 

But nahhhhh. Benchmarks is where it's at. 

Ironically, if you think you don't have options, isn't it because you are following benchmarks?

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:17 AM, Beddo.1907 said:

Moving resources from the +/- probably won't change much in terms of the big balance patches. They are just simple changes that just shift the meta a little.

And remember, the meta shifting isn't about something over- or under-performing, it's about Anet pushing players to play how they want us to, not in the interest of actual balance.  Anet - "play how you want".  Also Anet - "nerf everything (or remove it) if it isn't boonball door fighting".  Take the rewards away from everything but one play style isn't "play how you want", but I don't think they care.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

32 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, do both.

The last option is probable best suited for you then.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The last option is probable best suited for you then.

Not exactly, because as far as I understand it suggests people voting on that play one class and since "they're fine with their class, this is fine". That's not what I said. Also I don't think they're doing enough with bug fixes or potential reworks. I'm fine with not voting and just saying what I think instead. 😉

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Not exactly, because as far as I understand it suggests people voting on that play one class and since "they're fine with their class, this is fine". That's not what I said. Also I don't think they're doing enough with bug fixes or potential reworks. I'm fine with not voting and just saying what I think instead. 😉

Well, you have my apologies for being slightly snarky in the last no option 👍 Your explanation leans more to the second yes option then though...

Still, they need to be focusing more on bugs and reworks at this point than minutia for meta shifts.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Just want to point out that the question is framed confusingly.

you asked “should the balance team keep focusing on +\- changes or focus on unused weapons traits, and bugs.”

with the the first  response being “yes for at least a year”

This is confusing because the question asked isn’t a yes or no question. 
 

the third and fourth response at least additionally specify that “no” at least means your referring to “no numerical changes.”

people seem to understand the context good enough but…maybe you should consider just rewording the responses so that they don’t contain “yes or no.”

 

 

Edited January 18 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ironically, if you think you don't have options, isn't it because you are following benchmarks?

Well some traits or weapons are so bad that they are no options. Like Streamlined kits on engineer.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, do both.

Ironically, if you think you don't have options, isn't it because you are following benchmarks?

It's not so much that we don't have options, but that the devs are specifically focusing their efforts on meta builds without care for how it screws over off meta options. In many cases it makes the alternative options worse off than they were before. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Just want to point out that the question is framed confusingly.

you asked “should the balance team keep focusing on +\- changes or focus on unused weapons traits, and bugs.”

with the the first  response being “yes for at least a year”

This is confusing because the question asked isn’t a yes or no question. 
 

the third and fourth response at least additionally specify that “no” at least means your referring to “no numerical changes.”

people seem to understand the context good enough but…maybe you should consider just rewording the responses so that they don’t contain “yes or no.”

 

 

I'm tired, boss.

[aymnad.9023]

The choices do not make sense. Giving options with no bugfix? Also there is already mixt of 2nd (big patch) and 3rd options (adjustments)

Edited January 18 by aymnad.9023

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

The choices do not make sense. Giving options with no bugfix? Also there is already mixt of 2nd (big patch) and 3rd options (adjustments)

The two no's are for no bug fixes. Last no is really snark on my part though.

[CafPow.1542]

I miss the „why not both“ button. Unlimited.

I mean it should be possible to balance around a bit aswell as looking at traits / weapons nobody uses.